When do labels cease to describe people?

[Fallen Angel]

It should be obvious to anyone that this forum is not just about support for OW/M.

 

Ummm... yes, that is exactly what it is for.

[SidLyon]

Ummm... yes, that is exactly what it is for.

 

Yes it's for support of course but not as I said "just" for support. It's also about discussion.

[SidLyon]

Really? Can you please point out an incident where this was said?

 

I am sorry ; I was paraphrasing so I cannot locate a post where this was exactly said. You will have to accept my sincere apologies for this.

 

However here is a post where it was alluded to:

 

"When I first came to LS, I was very confused by the resemblance of some OW to BSs. It was very easy to mistake one for another ...

 

Since then I try to provide this information for other newcomers who seem to be as confused as I once was."

 

It is not exactly what I said however it is about the poster's intention to warn newbies if she feels they might be confused by the status of a poster when it's unclear whether she is an OW or a BW. She has done this more than once...

[pureinheart]

I was talking to a friend today.

 

I commented on the number of happily married people who consider themselves "betrayed" spouses, even though it has been years and they consider themselves reconciled.

 

Why?

 

Isn't that like perpetuating a power struggle with the spouse? A way to keep the upper hand, even though the A is ancient history?

 

How can you build something new if you hang on to something old? And when do you simply go back to "spouses" without defining what type of spouse?

 

GEL

 

Good question GEL:D,

 

Well you can't build anything new if you remain in the old, it's a lack of forgiveness and unforgiveness causes sickness and disease (IMO, also researchers are claiming this too).

 

I believe, like Anne stated that we can use our experiences to help others, and in doing that I think we further our own healing.

 

In bold, this is the dance that exDM and his exW operated in from the time they were M'ed, a very unhealthy way to live...exDM tried this tactic with me at times and I thought it was childish and uncalled for.

[sadintexas]

I am sorry ; I was paraphrasing so I cannot locate a post where this was exactly said. You will have to accept my sincere apologies for this.

 

There was one VERY recently. I'm trying to think of which thread it was. If I remember, I'll dig it up for you.

[NoIDidn't]

How interesting...this has made me think, I know I've talked about myself occassionaly as the BS but I'm not sure I have ever talked about my spouse as being the WH. I might have in the beginning with opening posts called him that. And I tend not to refer to myself as the BS very often.

 

 

I do the same thing. I don't refer to myself as a BW unless asked. And even then, I make it a point to show that its not something ongoing. I was once betrayed. I was also once OW. I prefer to just post my opinions and if they come off as BW-ish, or OW-ish - not my problem. Says more about the info/bias filter of the reader than about me.

 

I have never spoken of my H in these forums as wayward. He's always mentioned as "H". My husband. Because regardless of what he's done, he's my H. I didn't even like to refer to his former co-worker as OW. It took me a long time to actually do that (denial, maybe?).

 

Either way, I understand the use of the labels here, but I don't see people as those labels unless that outright identify with that label here solely. There are Ws here that used to be OW that seem to clearly identify as OW still. There are exWs/exHs here that still speak about their exH's/exW's (betrayed and other), but I certainly don't take that to mean that they are still identifying as the ex's spouse - just referencing it for the purpose of discussion.

 

I don't know what sparked the idea for this thread, but it is interesting given that many posters here will never let a formerly betrayed spouse ever forget it. There is always the "you feel that way because you were once betrayed" disingenuously thrown in there for good measure. If I recall correctly, most of the OW here have also been betrayed before becoming OW so I don't really get the need keep the whole "label" thing going repeatedly.

 

We are all women on various sides of relational triangles. Some by choice. And we come to discuss it and the feelings/opinions we have about without seeming to obsess about IRL. No one IRL actually wants to talk about what is discussed here. Its not exactly going to make for polite conversation.

[jennie-jennie]

Sometimes I've specified here on LS that I am or was a BW and sometimes I say a fBW. I do it because sometimes people post, and certain posters (the usual suspects - you all know who they are)immediately say in a hostile manner "just ignore so-and-so she's just a BW". I have nothing to be ashamed of about that, so it's easier to say up-front especially to posters who may not know.

 

I am sorry ; I was paraphrasing so I cannot locate a post where this was exactly said. You will have to accept my sincere apologies for this.

 

However here is a post where it was alluded to:

"When I first came to LS, I was very confused by the resemblance of some OW to BSs. It was very easy to mistake one for another ...

 

Since then I try to provide this information for other newcomers who seem to be as confused as I once was."

 

It is not exactly what I said however it is about the poster's intention to warn newbies if she feels they might be confused by the status of a poster when it's unclear whether she is an OW or a BW. She has done this more than once...

 

While the bolded quote above is mine, it was meant to clarify that some former OW hold similar views to BSs and that you thus can not be sure of anyone's "label" just because of their views.

 

Any other "warnings", or rather suggestions to ignore, emitted to newcomers by me have been in an attempt to soothe the often hostile welcoming to OW/OM. Understanding that the posters responding to you have themselves been hurt by infidelity can explain their choice of wording.

 

Being a BW in and by itself does not mean in my opinion that what you have to say is not of value, but sometimes the way it is said leaves more to be wished for.

 

Concerning exact quotes, shouldn't the source be mentioned, ie the poster's name in this case?

[seren]

I don't necessarily think labels are what we use when saying we are a BS, OW, OM, MW etc rather a way of identifying what our experiences are in relation to the post or topic we are debating or commenting on. I am a wife who was betrayed, so that makes me an XBS I suppose, that my marriage is back on track and the fact all is well despite an A could, I suppose, make me an unapologetic BS. Just to add another label.

 

My IRL friends, the new friends I have made, don't know about the A, they have no need to as it happened before I made those friends. It has never come up as it isn't relevant to our relationship as friends. My 'old' friends, know about the A and so if it comes up we discuss it from my experience as an XBS. I don't have a poor me label that says, I was a BS, but I have experiences that could help another who finds themselves in a similar situation. That is not to say that I do not see parallels in the feelings of loss, betrayal and hurt that some OP experience, and so can relate to them, sometimes too as a woman who has experienced similar feelings.

 

From MPOV, I hope that some can see that R is possible, that it can be worked through and that an A is not always the be and end all of a M.

I belong to other online forums. In one I am an adviser another a crafter, another an ex Forces member. Still me, but different hats for different forums.

 

I have met some really good people on LS, both OP and BS, all have qualities that I like, irrespective of their labels. I try not to judge, but also realise that of course my experiences often cloud my view.

So, I will always be a woman who is married, who's husband had an affair, it will never, ever change. But I am so much more a woman who is happily married and I hope it too never changes.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't necessarily think labels are what we use when saying we are a BS, OW, OM, MW etc rather a way of identifying what our experiences are in relation to the post or topic we are debating or commenting on. I am a wife who was betrayed, so that makes me an XBS I suppose, that my marriage is back on track and the fact all is well despite an A could, I suppose, make me an unapologetic BS. Just to add another label.

 

My IRL friends, the new friends I have made, don't know about the A, they have no need to as it happened before I made those friends. It has never come up as it isn't relevant to our relationship as friends. My 'old' friends, know about the A and so if it comes up we discuss it from my experience as an XBS. I don't have a poor me label that says, I was a BS, but I have experiences that could help another who finds themselves in a similar situation. That is not to say that I do not see parallels in the feelings of loss, betrayal and hurt that some OP experience, and so can relate to them, sometimes too as a woman who has experienced similar feelings.

 

From MPOV, I hope that some can see that R is possible, that it can be worked through and that an A is not always the be and end all of a M.

I belong to other online forums. In one I am an adviser another a crafter, another an ex Forces member. Still me, but different hats for different forums.

 

I have met some really good people on LS, both OP and BS, all have qualities that I like, irrespective of their labels. I try not to judge, but also realise that of course my experiences often cloud my view.

So, I will always be a woman who is married, who's husband had an affair, it will never, ever change. But I am so much more a woman who is happily married and I hope it too never changes.

 

Great post!

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I was once a BS, although I just didn't ever "feel it" if that makes sense. I was happy to get out of Dodge!

 

And I was an OW but I'm not now.

 

I'm the wife.

 

I guess I'm just wondering how do people get to the point where the only label they wear is the one they are happy with? Or if they are happy wearing the label even though that's over and done with?

 

Even though I'm the wife, there are some people here who would see me as the OW forever. So who really determines the label? And is it subject to interpretation and varies by person?

 

I hope the cycle ends there for you GEL. As a fBS then you do understand that of the three labels BS is the only one that is chosen for you. I only wear labels that I am happy with. I still consider myself a daughter, though my mother is passed. I still (though without the pain that used to accompany it) remember her daily and she still influences my life and decisions. I haven't worked in some years but still call myself a nurse. I have/am raised 2 children but lost 2 still born so I still consider myself a mother of 4.

 

I find myself in any situation where a friend looses a parent or a child to be there to console and stand by them, because as someone who has been there I can empathise as well as help them to know what to expect in their recovery. I didn't have that as a BS because I kept it to myself because (honestly) I was ashamed. My friends still call me anytime anyone has an ache or a pain because of my experiences as a nurse.

 

Like all of the above, and other things that have affected my life positively and negatively (being kidnapped ect...) those things are a part of me, the experiences as well as my reactions to them, have shaped and tell the story of who I am today. So while, I could have done without any ungliness or unhappiness in my life especially the things that hurts so bad that I "didn't deserve" I honestly wouldn't be me without them. I've learned for sure that I am a survivor and that the bad things only have as much effect over your life as you allow them, and I don't mean that in a trite way at all.

 

So, yep, I will always be all of those things, there is no experience good or bad that can be taken away from me or completely forgotten. They all make me who I am today.

[jennie-jennie]

I hope the cycle ends there for you GEL. As a fBS then you do understand that of the three labels BS is the only one that is chosen for you.

 

IWWH, I don't agree with you here. I didn't choose to become the OW, although I choose to continue being one.

[pureinheart]

I am sorry ; I was paraphrasing so I cannot locate a post where this was exactly said. You will have to accept my sincere apologies for this.

 

However here is a post where it was alluded to:

 

"When I first came to LS, I was very confused by the resemblance of some OW to BSs. It was very easy to mistake one for another ...

 

Since then I try to provide this information for other newcomers who seem to be as confused as I once was."

 

It is not exactly what I said however it is about the poster's intention to warn newbies if she feels they might be confused by the status of a poster when it's unclear whether she is an OW or a BW. She has done this more than once...

 

While the bolded quote above is mine, it was meant to clarify that some former OW hold similar views to BSs and that you thus can not be sure of anyone's "label" just because of their views.

 

Any other "warnings", or rather suggestions to ignore, emitted to newcomers by me have been in an attempt to soothe the often hostile welcoming to OW/OM. Understanding that the posters responding to you have themselves been hurt by infidelity can explain their choice of wording.

 

Being a BW in and by itself does not mean in my opinion that what you have to say is not of value, but sometimes the way it is said leaves more to be wished for.

 

Concerning exact quotes, shouldn't the source be mentioned, ie the poster's name in this case?

 

Ok...now that makes sense...in bold also I had seen that and for the life of me couldnot remember where...

 

This is right because I still have a hard time distinguishing the FOW from the BS unless I know who they are and their stance.

 

I have been very shocked to hear the stories that they had once been in an A, as they come off as betrayed....which, in thinking they were betrayed also in some cases. Not being mean at all, or trying to throw a dig in there...it was just my thought while reading certain replies.

[pureinheart]

I don't necessarily think labels are what we use when saying we are a BS, OW, OM, MW etc rather a way of identifying what our experiences are in relation to the post or topic we are debating or commenting on. I am a wife who was betrayed, so that makes me an XBS I suppose, that my marriage is back on track and the fact all is well despite an A could, I suppose, make me an unapologetic BS. Just to add another label.

 

My IRL friends, the new friends I have made, don't know about the A, they have no need to as it happened before I made those friends. It has never come up as it isn't relevant to our relationship as friends. My 'old' friends, know about the A and so if it comes up we discuss it from my experience as an XBS. I don't have a poor me label that says, I was a BS, but I have experiences that could help another who finds themselves in a similar situation. That is not to say that I do not see parallels in the feelings of loss, betrayal and hurt that some OP experience, and so can relate to them, sometimes too as a woman who has experienced similar feelings.

 

From MPOV, I hope that some can see that R is possible, that it can be worked through and that an A is not always the be and end all of a M.

I belong to other online forums. In one I am an adviser another a crafter, another an ex Forces member. Still me, but different hats for different forums.

 

I have met some really good people on LS, both OP and BS, all have qualities that I like, irrespective of their labels. I try not to judge, but also realise that of course my experiences often cloud my view.

So, I will always be a woman who is married, who's husband had an affair, it will never, ever change. But I am so much more a woman who is happily married and I hope it too never changes.

 

Because of the nature of this forum...of course it does come up from time to time...although I had/have no reason to bring up anything about anyone about anything that is negative.

 

Me and my friends are so busy taking care of business that to "gossip" (which I don't consider LS as gossip BTW)...well there's no time. We talk about our kids, God and country.

 

I think other than councelling, online forum, it is counter-productive to bring up any sort of past issues, unless it is to help another.

[jennie-jennie]

Ok...now that makes sense...in bold also I had seen that and for the life of me couldnot remember where...

 

This is right because I still have a hard time distinguishing the FOW from the BS unless I know who they are and their stance.

 

I have been very shocked to hear the stories that they had once been in an A, as they come off as betrayed....which, in thinking they were betrayed also in some cases. Not being mean at all, or trying to throw a dig in there...it was just my thought while reading certain replies.

 

Now this is a very interesting thought. Just like I felt like the betrayed spouse when my MM had sex with his wife, could it be that these former OW in a sense feel/felt like betrayed OW, in fact like betrayed spouses?

Edited July 25, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[lolapalooza]

There's at least one fOW that consistently rehashes details of her A in every post, though the A ended some time ago. So this thread isn't exclusive to BS it seems.

[GreenEyedLady]

It's almost like a game of telephone...

 

Words are all subject to interpretation.

 

I certainly didn't mean that anyone refers to themselves IRL by labels to others.

 

I meant here, on the forum.

 

I guess I learned from this thread that people see what they want to see.

 

GEL

[jennie-jennie]

There's at least one fOW that consistently rehashes details of her A in every post, though the A ended some time ago. So this thread isn't exclusive to BS it seems.

 

She probably hasn't healed yet then.

[White Flower]

She probably hasn't healed yet then.

Good point.

[White Flower]

I don't necessarily think labels are what we use when saying we are a BS, OW, OM, MW etc rather a way of identifying what our experiences are in relation to the post or topic we are debating or commenting on. I am a wife who was betrayed, so that makes me an XBS I suppose, that my marriage is back on track and the fact all is well despite an A could, I suppose, make me an unapologetic BS. Just to add another label.

 

My IRL friends, the new friends I have made, don't know about the A, they have no need to as it happened before I made those friends. It has never come up as it isn't relevant to our relationship as friends. My 'old' friends, know about the A and so if it comes up we discuss it from my experience as an XBS. I don't have a poor me label that says, I was a BS, but I have experiences that could help another who finds themselves in a similar situation. That is not to say that I do not see parallels in the feelings of loss, betrayal and hurt that some OP experience, and so can relate to them, sometimes too as a woman who has experienced similar feelings.

 

From MPOV, I hope that some can see that R is possible, that it can be worked through and that an A is not always the be and end all of a M.

I belong to other online forums. In one I am an adviser another a crafter, another an ex Forces member. Still me, but different hats for different forums.

 

I have met some really good people on LS, both OP and BS, all have qualities that I like, irrespective of their labels. I try not to judge, but also realise that of course my experiences often cloud my view.

So, I will always be a woman who is married, who's husband had an affair, it will never, ever change. But I am so much more a woman who is happily married and I hope it too never changes.

Very good post seren. But you've changed your signature I noticed.

[wheelwright]

I was talking to a friend today.

 

I commented on the number of happily married people who consider themselves "betrayed" spouses, even though it has been years and they consider themselves reconciled.

 

Why?

 

Isn't that like perpetuating a power struggle with the spouse? A way to keep the upper hand, even though the A is ancient history?

 

How can you build something new if you hang on to something old? And when do you simply go back to "spouses" without defining what type of spouse?

 

GEL

 

Why is this your thread GEL?

 

I am trying to think about your question. From your perspective.

 

And mine.

 

I reckon you described it all above. So are you asking if BSs ever feel they never got their WS right and they should have given it up?

 

The bolded bit should be really important, but I think it's the answer and the question.

 

I've got nothing to add, except sadly I find myself in a new philosophical position re love these days (shorthand = semi-cynicism).

[pureinheart]

There's at least one fOW that consistently rehashes details of her A in every post, though the A ended some time ago. So this thread isn't exclusive to BS it seems.

 

You remind me a lot of JThorne...are you?

[OWoman]

I have been very shocked to hear the stories that they had once been in an A, as they come off as betrayed....which, in thinking they were betrayed also in some cases. Not being mean at all, or trying to throw a dig in there...it was just my thought while reading certain replies.

 

Now this is a very interesting thought. Just like I felt like the betrayed spouse when my MM had sex with his wife, could it be that these former OW in a sense feel/felt like betrayed OW, in fact like betrayed spouses?

 

Some OWs feel / felt betrayed by their MMs, either like Jen during the A, or by being tossed under public transport and disposed of, at the end of the A...

 

...but I think that some other OW, in particular some of those who become "ROW", feel betrayed not so much by their (x)MMs as by themselves, and by their own (temporary) lapse of "standards", values or morals that allowed them to engage in something abhorrent to themselves, like an A.

[Mimolicious]

Hey, maybe the LS web master can change the "Location" field to reflect our "title"? Since location is not be reveal maybe it can be replaced with other info. Just saying...

 

I guess people can give themselves the title of (fill in the blank) depending on where they stand in their Rs in IRL. I am a fBS or XW but I am also not someones GF or anything else in a romantic R at the present moment. A newbie wouldn't know this and may not know where someone is coming from. SHOOT! I am not new here and I still get ...

 

If I am going to chime in on a subject at least I can emphasize my previous or current position in a R was, no?

[anne1707]

Hey, maybe the LS web master can change the "Location" field to reflect our "title"? Since location is not be reveal maybe it can be replaced with other info. Just saying...

 

But the title () of WS/BS/OW etc may only be relevant for a handful of posts in a couple of forums. I know I post across LS - there would be no relevance in providing this type of information if posting in Business/Politics/etc.

[jennie-jennie]

Hey, maybe the LS web master can change the "Location" field to reflect our "title"? Since location is not be reveal maybe it can be replaced with other info. Just saying...

 

I guess people can give themselves the title of (fill in the blank) depending on where they stand in their Rs in IRL. I am a fBS or XW but I am also not someones GF or anything else in a romantic R at the present moment. A newbie wouldn't know this and may not know where someone is coming from. SHOOT! I am not new here and I still get ...

 

If I am going to chime in on a subject at least I can emphasize my previous or current position in a R was, no?

 

Great idea!

 

Facebook status is all that counts nowadays to the young. My MM went into my Facebook account and changed my status to "In a relationship". :love:

 

It's gone from "It's complicated" (which is how I described our relationship) to "Single" (when I was upset with him) to the present "In a relationship".