A bit of history and how to handle meeting the BS.

[pureinheart]

I agree hate is too heavy an emotion to be logging around for someone who so do not deserve to even be thought of. That said, some people say "they do not hate" that person or this person and yet still trash them every chance they get. It is called denial. Until they learn to accept that there is STILL so much negative emotions for the person, and are unable to refrain from transfering those negative emotions to other people who they see represent those that hurt him/her, healing is not going to come any easier or faster.

 

It's a waste of time and the person wasting the time doesn't even see the transference, although it is obvious...been there done that unfortunately. The REALLY sad thing is that the hate that is "not" there owns the hater.

[pureinheart]

I think meeting the xW is a bad idea.

 

You two AREN'T even engaged at this point.

 

It, to me, smacks of rubbing you in the xW's face.

 

I have Gf's since my D...they don't meet my xW. Shoot, they don't even meet my kids for a calendar year.

 

I realize I'm not privy to the entirety of your situation...but that's my impression.

 

Personally, wouldn't go for the above reasons. Wait until he has proposed and bought you a ring. However, since you will go...expect an icy coolness and sharp tongue. Ignore it. I wouldn't talk about raising her kids - it seems odd since you are just the GF now. In fact, I have no idea what you two would talk about. The weather?

 

This is just bizarre to me.

 

Scratch the congrats for now:), didn't read entire thread, just OP and page 2.

 

Ya JW, your right, not a good idea for all involved.

[White Flower]

Aren't you the least bit worried that in time you will become the betrayed spouse Butterfly11? After all, you're the fOW.

 

Just sayin'

We had no clue our first husbands would betray us either. There are no guarantees anywhere.

 

OP isn't at all worried. They are soulmates.

I didn't worry about my first husband either. Again, there are no guarantees so stop mud-sllinging.

 

Is it so hard to be happy for two people who found each other under not-so-usual circumstances? Well, it IS usual; we just don't want to believe it is.

 

Congrats Butterfly! I for one am very happy for you.

[Butterfly11]

True, I don't think the bw hates her if she did why ask to meet the op. I think the bw may dislike the op and thats understandable, considering what happend. At this point i believe the bw wants to see who will be around her children just like any concerned mother.

Likewise if my ex starts dating, I would like to meet whoever he brings around my child.

Hey B11...I think I remember you:), and crongrats on your new M...

 

As soon as exDM was separated from now exW his now exW invited us to "Thanksgiving Dinner"...I could not believe that exDM asked me to go...OMG..I smelled a set up as she filed a restraining order on him 1 month prior...ahhhh the wonderful memories...lol...

 

In your case why not talk on the phone or email first...even if she is hiding, you'll still see a "tone"...hey, good luck on that one B11...

 

I wish I could remember my other username, maybe it was me

 

Yes, that definitely was a set up there on Thanksgiving. How'd that go anyway? Are you still together?

 

I've thought of contacting her first via email, but I don't want to push the meeting. I want to meet her whenever she is ready.

 

We had no clue our first husbands would betray us either. There are no guarantees anywhere.

 

I didn't worry about my first husband either. Again, there are no guarantees so stop mud-sllinging.

 

Is it so hard to be happy for two people who found each other under not-so-usual circumstances? Well, it IS usual; we just don't want to believe it is.

 

Congrats Butterfly! I for one am very happy for you.

Thank you, it does really sound like you are one person that is happy for me.

 

I don't know why just because of the circumstances surrounding how we began our relationship, it is hard for anyone to believe that maybe we could possibly live happily ever after. Is there only one path that leads to happiness, and it is it always a direct path without obstacle or struggle, no. Thinking back on my first H, I'm so glad NOW that he did have an EA and divorced me, because I was so blindly miserable, and now I'm happier than I ever thought I could be. He did me a favor. This by no means implies that I think that affairs are the way to happiness, but ironically they seem to be the path to mine

 

Funny twist to my story. Somehow the exW hinted to her fH that she knew about our upcoming engagement. We haven't told anyone so how could she possibly know? After some head scratching, my STBF checks his email settings and finds that the exW has hacked his email account sometime ago and has had his mail forwarded to another account she created. Yes, he committed adultery, but damn what she did is a FELONY.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Butterfly11

[Silly_Girl]

 

Funny twist to my story. Somehow the exW hinted to her fH that she knew about our upcoming engagement. We haven't told anyone so how could she possibly know? Apparently, the exW hacked his email account sometime ago and has had his mail forwarded to another account she created. Yes, he committed adultery, but damn what she did is a FELONY.

 

Get real. I know which of those I'd rather s spouse put ME through, any day of the week. Turns out she had good reason to snoop...

[Butterfly11]

Get real. I know which of those I'd rather s spouse put ME through, any day of the week. Turns out she had good reason to snoop...

Snooping is still a betrayal of trust IMO, not as bad as an A but right up there in my book.

[TOWinNYC]

I don't know why just because of the circumstances surrounding how we began our relationship, it is hard for anyone to believe that maybe we could possibly live happily ever after. Is there only one path that leads to happiness, and it is it always a direct path without obstacle or struggle, no. Thinking back on my first H, I'm so glad NOW that he did have an EA and divorced me, because I was so blindly miserable, and now I'm happier than I ever thought I could be. He did me a favor. This by no means implies that I think that affairs are the way to happiness, but ironically they seem to be the path to mine

 

Butterfly, I said it once before and I'll say it again - I think it's WONDERFUL that things worked out for the two of you!!! I have no doubt that "happily ever afters" happen no matter what circumstances brought the two of you together.

 

Everything happens for a reason and sometimes two people are meant to be together. I've gotten some derision here on LS for talking about "the magic" that two people can experience as well as refering to that kind of love as "AMAZING".

 

But *shrug* it's usually from people who have no idea what magic feels like and probably have never experienced it themselves.

[pureinheart]

I wish I could remember my other username, maybe it was me

 

Yes, that definitely was a set up there on Thanksgiving. How'd that go anyway? Are you still together?

 

I've thought of contacting her first via email, but I don't want to push the meeting. I want to meet her whenever she is ready.

 

 

Funny twist to my story. Somehow the exW hinted to her fH that she knew about our upcoming engagement. We haven't told anyone so how could she possibly know? After some head scratching, my STBF checks his email settings and finds that the exW has hacked his email account sometime ago and has had his mail forwarded to another account she created. Yes, he committed adultery, but damn what she did is a FELONY.

 

In Bold, she must be very pc literate...although even if I could do that wouldn't. I know some think the BS has a right to do anything they want in this respect, although I couldn't do it and didn't...and to continue reading his email...that is really messed up.

 

You know B11, in thinking she still reads his email...that is just not right ...I'd be careful of that one, seriously.

 

I told exDM he was crazy for even considering going...exDM and me had a rocky road after his separation and D. I chose to bow out gracefully and have moved on and am very happy:)

 

Congrats on the upcoming engagment B11, you deserve it:)

[pureinheart]

Butterfly, I said it once before and I'll say it again - I think it's WONDERFUL that things worked out for the two of you!!! I have no doubt that "happily ever afters" happen no matter what circumstances brought the two of you together.

 

Everything happens for a reason and sometimes two people are meant to be together. I've gotten some derision here on LS for talking about "the magic" that two people can experience as well as refering to that kind of love as "AMAZING".

 

But *shrug* it's usually from people who have no idea what magic feels like and probably have never experienced it themselves.

 

*raising hand* Firm believer here in happily ever after:D. I understand the magic you are talking about...had it twice, my daughters dad and exDM...so I know it is attainable again:D

[jwi71]

Thank you, it does really sound like you are one person that is happy for me.

 

No, no, no...don't get me wrong - I have NO problems with you two dating - I mean he got D for you. This, in my eyes, is a legit R. I am HAPPY for you no doubt - just not going to say "Woohoo you are the rare 3% - since, well, he hasn't committed to you".

 

What I fail to understand is why all the congrats here. You have no ring, no engagement, no date (how can you, he hasn't proposed)...why the celebration? To me, its because you "won". HAd this been some regular Joe Blow you met - I doubt you would be meeting his xW.

 

No way does a woman I date meet my xW. Not appropriate. I can't even imagine it - Its just dating. But, for you and him, it will NEVER be "just dating.

 

I don't know why just because of the circumstances surrounding how we began our relationship, it is hard for anyone to believe that maybe we could possibly live happily ever after

 

Well, yes.

For ME, I think you have a better chance than most because he left and has stayed gone for some time. And if you have met his friends and family (I'm sure you have), then it looks like a healthy transition.

Thinking back on my first H, I'm so glad NOW that he did have an EA and divorced me, because I was so blindly miserable, and now I'm happier than I ever thought I could be. He did me a favor. This by no means implies that I think that affairs are the way to happiness, but ironically they seem to be the path to mine

 

I get this more than you think - I feel the same about my xWW. Almost as if I should thank her - like that would go well

 

Funny twist to my story. Somehow the exW hinted to her fH that she knew about our upcoming engagement. We haven't told anyone so how could she possibly know? After some head scratching, my STBF checks his email settings and finds that the exW has hacked his email account sometime ago and has had his mail forwarded to another account she created. Yes, he committed adultery, but damn what she did is a FELONY.

 

Not funny.

Red flag.

Be careful.

(and I would still wait until you have a ring and the announcements have gone out before you two meet).

[woinlove]

 

I've hung out with their kids on several occasions, after the divorce, I never met them prior to that. The kids really like me, her little one actually said she loved me last time we hung out They don't even know we are dating, much less talking about engagement, they are children so we are taking it slowly, as we should.

 

Why continue the deception with the children after the divorce? I can understand not letting the children meet you if the father feels it is in the children's best interest not to know he has a girlfriend/lover/fiancee, but I can't understand why he would decide to have them meet you but then hide what you are. If even the "little one" is old enough to talk about loving you she (and any older sibling) is old enough to be told her father loves someone new. If they find out in the future (perhaps from the xW) then they will know that they were introduced to you under false pretences. Why treat children that way?

[Butterfly11]

In Bold, she must be very pc literate...although even if I could do that wouldn't. I know some think the BS has a right to do anything they want in this respect, although I couldn't do it and didn't...and to continue reading his email...that is really messed up.

 

You know B11, in thinking she still reads his email...that is just not right ...I'd be careful of that one, seriously.

 

I told exDM he was crazy for even considering going...exDM and me had a rocky road after his separation and D. I chose to bow out gracefully and have moved on and am very happy:)

 

Congrats on the upcoming engagment B11, you deserve it:)

It is messed up about the emails. Not only did she hack the acct but for the past year she has continued to read them, why torture herself...did it give her pleasure or does she just like to suffer?

 

He is still waiting to confront her about it...needs to do it in person to see the reaction.

 

Sounds like for you, bowing out was the best choice. I'm glad you are happy

 

No, no, no...don't get me wrong - I have NO problems with you two dating - I mean he got D for you. This, in my eyes, is a legit R. I am HAPPY for you no doubt - just not going to say "Woohoo you are the rare 3% - since, well, he hasn't committed to you".

 

What I fail to understand is why all the congrats here. You have no ring, no engagement, no date (how can you, he hasn't proposed)...why the celebration? To me, its because you "won". HAd this been some regular Joe Blow you met - I doubt you would be meeting his xW.

 

No way does a woman I date meet my xW. Not appropriate. I can't even imagine it - Its just dating. But, for you and him, it will NEVER be "just dating.

 

Well, yes.

For ME, I think you have a better chance than most because he left and has stayed gone for some time. And if you have met his friends and family (I'm sure you have), then it looks like a healthy transition.

 

I get this more than you think - I feel the same about my xWW. Almost as if I should thank her - like that would go well

 

Not funny.

Red flag.

Be careful.

(and I would still wait until you have a ring and the announcements have gone out before you two meet).

 

We have a diamond, does that count? My mom has given me her diamond to have put into another setting, which I have given to him. We've picked the date we want to get married, but of course there are no invitations in the mail yet. I've met his parents, co-workers and best friends so I'm definitely not a secret anymore.

 

Yes, we are just dating, but moving forward toward marriage so it seems appropriate to meet her because of the kids. I would want to meet any future GF of my ex if they are that serious and heading towards marriage.

 

Why continue the deception with the children after the divorce? I can understand not letting the children meet you if the father feels it is in the children's best interest not to know he has a girlfriend/lover/fiancee, but I can't understand why he would decide to have them meet you but then hide what you are. If even the "little one" is old enough to talk about loving you she (and any older sibling) is old enough to be told her father loves someone new. If they find out in the future (perhaps from the xW) then they will know that they were introduced to you under false pretences. Why treat children that way?

I don't think we are deceiving the children, just taking it slowly. They went through a lot this past year with the divorce. I don't think it would be appropriate to just thrust myself ASAP into their lives as Daddy's girlfriend. We get together on a play date basis only with my child. He wants them to get to know me as a friend and come to like me that way instead of automatically seeing me as the GF. Just as friendships and romantic relationships come to fruition on a gradual basis, I don't think there is anything wrong with developing a relationship with his children in the same manner.

 

They have talked and both agreed that it would not be in the best interest of the kids for them to ever know the reasons for the dissolution of their marriage.

[woinlove]

I don't think we are deceiving the children, just taking it slowly. They went through a lot this past year with the divorce. I don't think it would be appropriate to just thrust myself ASAP into their lives as Daddy's girlfriend. We get together on a play date basis only with my child. He wants them to get to know me as a friend and come to like me that way instead of automatically seeing me as the GF. Just as friendships and romantic relationships come to fruition on a gradual basis, I don't think there is anything wrong with developing a relationship with his children in the same manner.

 

They have talked and both agreed that it would not be in the best interest of the kids for them to ever know the reasons for the dissolution of their marriage.

 

The xW is "taking it slowly" by stopping dating for a while to allow the kids to adjust. I don't see how the concept of "taking it slowly" applies to honesty and openness. The father already has a relationship with his children and it is a matter of whether he introduces you to them in an open and honest way, waits to introduce you to them until he can be open and honest, or deceives them by introducing you in a not open or honest way. Seems to me that he has chosen the latter.

 

It is extremely common for MM to pass off their AP as "just a friend" to lots of people, including the BS and children, but to do this after a divorce and to the children is unnecessary deception, IMO.

[BB07]

I'm impressed Butterfly, you both seem to be handling it very well, and I like the way you are dealing with the children.

 

Now as for the wife hacking the email account, if that is still ongoing, that is really, really bad and maybe the best way to handle it, is just stop her access by changing the password. That way she knows....you two know. Plus it would have the added benefit of not creating a big scene, because truth is if you are going to have a relationship with this man, you HAVE to have at least a cordial relationship with her because of the children. You should be aware that it could go a lot deeper than just hacking the email, she could have spy software installed on it and be privy to EVERY thing that is done on the computer. If I were you, I'd get it checked out by someone who is qualified to look for that specific issue.

[2sure]

I am a BS with all of the bitterness and anger that comes with D-Day, Divorce, betrayal of my entire life etc etc yada yada yada.

 

So, I have to put all of that aside to try to best answer your question and not offer you opinions that you didnt ask for and that dont matter much at this point anyway.

 

I have a child, but not with the cheating piece of cheese that I am currently divorcing , so its different. However, my best friend has recently divorced her own cheese ball and had to deal with the soon to be Mrs. Cheeseball the second via the kids. My terms in NO way reflect any opinion that I have about you or your man...but this is how the ex-wife is seeing it.

 

Now, my friend is a class act and doesnt blow or cause any rift while the children are there. Which is what most moms would do and what you should protect yourself with just until a level of comfort is reached with both of you.

 

Also, do not "act" anyway. State the facts: I know this is very uncomfortable for both of us and I dont expect it to get easier. But I would like to work with you on making sure all of our kids are happy and secure with all of us.

 

Nothing more. Hold your breath. Try again in a month or two.

[piscis]

Congratulations!!!

 

"I know this is very uncomfortable for both of us and I dont expect it to get easier. But I would like to work with you on making sure all of our kids are happy and secure with all of us."

 

IMO the best advice.

Do not force things or situations.

Everything with time and pacience will take it's own place

[Butterfly11]

woinlove: It may be deception to not have introduced me as the GF from the start, but I do not think the intention was in anyway malicious or harmful, just letting them adjust slowly. I'm not sure why he has chose this route, but it was also the path the shrink recommended. I suppose he could have waited to introduce me to the kids only when he was ready to tell them I was his GF.

 

BBO7: Once he found out that his emails were being forwarded, he deleted that account's access. I'm sure she must be somewhat aware something is amiss b/c she hasn't gotten any new emails from that account in the past few days...we email daily. He has a new computer so I wouldn't be worried about any spyware.

 

Thanks 2sure for your good advice, I agree with Piscis.

[desertmoon]

No, no, no...don't get me wrong - I have NO problems with you two dating - I mean he got D for you. This, in my eyes, is a legit R. I am HAPPY for you no doubt - just not going to say "Woohoo you are the rare 3% - since, well, he hasn't committed to you".

 

What I fail to understand is why all the congrats here. You have no ring, no engagement, no date (how can you, he hasn't proposed)...why the celebration? To me, its because you "won". HAd this been some regular Joe Blow you met - I doubt you would be meeting his xW.

 

Congrats that they are committed to each other.Congrats that even if he has not officially proposed he already said he wants to marry her. Congrats that they are planning an OFFICIAL announcement of their wish to be united in marriage. Congrats that she is happy. Congrats that she was able to back off and allowed her xMM to make a clear choice. Congrats that her MM had the balls to pursue a chance in happiness. ...congrats...congrats...congrats..!!!!!:bunny:!

 

Some people do not need a ring or an official announcement in the paper to know they are in love and committed.

 

The good wishes and congratulations have nothing to do with his xW or her "winning"....it is SIMPLY congratulations that she is happy and that she is with her love.

[JAGeezer]

They have talked and both agreed that it would not be in the best interest of the kids for them to ever know the reasons for the dissolution of their marriage.

 

Hmmm, unless they divorced in a complete and total vacumn, there are other people who know the circumstances, and some of whom, under the right circumstances or provocation, might spill the beans. Use extreme caution when considering deceiving children in their own best interests.

 

Let me give you my case in point. Twenty-seven years ago, give or take, I married a woman who had two kids by a previous sperm donor. Said sperm donor wanted out from under the child support, so he signed away his rights and I adopted them. We then had a child of our own. She had an A. I forgave her. We had another child. She had another A that wound up getting her killed. Finis.

 

The point is that the kids were very young. Even her oldest by the sperm donor wasn't old enough to understand yet. So I lied. By conscious choice my entire family suppressed that portion of our family history until such time as the kids could understand it.

 

Fast forward eight years, well before the time when we'd planned to tell them. While the sperm donor had no rights with my kids, I still let their paternal grandparents see them. There was a family picnic. The sperm donor was there. He was drunk. He told the kids in great detail what happened to their mom.

 

It was a year and more before they forgave me for hiding the truth. Prior to that time the kids had pictures of her in their bedrooms and we put flowers on her grave on her birthday and mother's day. After that point, and to this day, as far as my children (both adopted and biological) are concerned, she might as well be an unperson. My kids retain no pictures of her, have nothing to do with her sole surviving family member, nor will they mention her even by inference. They have completely erased her from their lives.

 

Use EXTREME caution when choosing to hide information from the kids. Other people with loose lips may not see it the same way that you and their parents do, and it's for damn sure that the kids won't see it the same way you do once they find out. They will remember that pain, and they will finally know who caused it and why.

 

JAG

[BB07]

That is one heck of a cautionary tale Jag!

Sorry for the t/j, but why did the 2nd affair kill her, if you don't mind me asking.

[Butterfly11]

Thanks dessertmoon for clearing that up.

 

I agree Jag that is one shocker of a story!

 

Jag: At what age do you wish you would have told the children about their mom's A? I believe that some information needs to be withheld until the child reaches an age where he can comprehend the information he is receiving. I could see if they asked for information, providing them with as much as was appropriate.

 

I would not think telling a 3 year old or 7 year old for ie "Ms. Butterfly is the lady that Daddy would sleep/date/play with and was not allowed to and Mommy found out and was angry, so Mommy kicked Daddy out of the house, remember, and that is why Mommy and Daddy don't live together anymore and why we got a divorce. Now Ms. Butterfly and I are going to get married and Mommy probably won't like it, but me and Ms. Butterfly are very happy and want all the happiness for you. I want you to know that what happened between Mommy and Daddy has nothing to do with you". (hugs and big smile).

 

I realize there is always a possibility when they do find out, because I know one day they will, they may hate me and even their father for that matter.

[woinlove]

I think the parents should be honest with their children, but not give them more information than is appropriate for their age. For young children just saying that the father started loving another woman would have been enough of a description of the affair. And, yes, I think the BS anger and hurt should be openly acknowledged. The children are going to pick up on it anyway, and I think it is best not to leave them wondering and possibly reluctant to voice their fears.

 

In a couple years, the 7 year old might ask more specific questions and then these should be answered honestly, IMO.

[silverfish]

Thanks dessertmoon for clearing that up.

 

I agree Jag that is one shocker of a story!

 

Jag: At what age do you wish you would have told the children about their mom's A? I believe that some information needs to be withheld until the child reaches an age where he can comprehend the information he is receiving. I could see if they asked for information, providing them with as much as was appropriate.

 

I would not think telling a 3 year old or 7 year old for ie "Ms. Butterfly is the lady that Daddy would sleep/date/play with and was not allowed to and Mommy found out and was angry, so Mommy kicked Daddy out of the house, remember, and that is why Mommy and Daddy don't live together anymore and why we got a divorce. Now Ms. Butterfly and I are going to get married and Mommy probably won't like it, but me and Ms. Butterfly are very happy and want all the happiness for you. I want you to know that what happened between Mommy and Daddy has nothing to do with you". (hugs and big smile).

 

I realize there is always a possibility when they do find out, because I know one day they will, they may hate me and even their father for that matter.

 

Does your BF's exW want to get together precisely for the reason...to discuss what to tell the children?

 

I wouldn't be happy if someone told my kids the quote in your post....too much spin there. TBH, the best people to explain are the parents, and it's best if they do it together and you stay out of it. I would also be surprised if this was covered up long term even if all 3 of you want that right now.

 

My experience as a 9 yr old was, I got told that the split was due to neutral reasons, but found out about the OW at a later date, having been introduced to her as my Dad's friend. I have to be honest, I disliked her intensely, but my little sister thought she was great.

 

I think I found her a bit false and didn't trust her, but that was probably due to the circumstances at the time rather than her as a person. I kept it very well covered, and was always polite and kind to her.

 

My dad had lots of female friends, and it was pretty easy to work out that this 'friend' was different. I think honestly is the best policy with the kids but you're going to have to deal with them judging you over it at some point, as kids are very judgmental...and possibly blaming you too.

 

Your BF is the one who has to step in then and explain his part in the whole thing...is he prepared to do that?

[Butterfly11]

I know he wants to be honest with them when they are older, but for now he thinks they are too young to grasp the concept. Both he and his eW have agreed to put this on hold. I am not going to be involved in when or how they tell their children why they divorced. If they feel the need to tell them, that is fine, but if they want to wait, that is their choice also.

 

I tell my 4 year old when he asks about why his Daddy and I don't get married again, that it just didn't work out and sometimes people are just better as friends. I've never told him about the EA his Dad had. I've never told him his Daddy thought that I was having an A and had a paternity test done. I won't tell him that Daddy didn't trust Mommy because she was out partying late at night because she was very unhappy and didn't want to go home to Daddy. It was partially the reason we broke up, but in essence most of it was the failure of us to form a strong partnership because of bad communication. Besides the fact that he was self-centered and patronizing added to it.

 

Perhaps they won't hate me, I know we've talked about that word, but possibly dislike me. I'm prepared to deal with that.

[Silly_Girl]

Perhaps they won't hate me, I know we've talked about that word, but possibly dislike me. I'm prepared to deal with that.

 

I suspect they may very well like you as a person, but possibly dislike what you represent and take some time to come to terms with that.

 

Some kids just love new folks and the attention and experiences that brings. The ages obviously make a lot of difference.

 

Going back a few years, my son liked my new bf, but even when he was old enough to know it was impossible, wished his dad could come and live with us. i.e. Three adults in the house (leaving the evil stepmum behind )

 

I'm sure you won't at all, but the worse thing you could do is try and manipulate them, or persuade them, in to liking you.