Cougar at work: friendly or flirting?

[Blur83]

Ok, here are the facts: There is an older woman at work that I find very attractive. I'm 27 years old, and she's 40 and single with no children. We met about a year ago in a spin class at a local gym, but conversations never went any further than "Hello, how are you?", if that. About four months ago, however, I got a job at the same company she works for. Not only do we work for the same company, but we work on the same floor, also, although we don't work directly with each other. So of course, the first time we ran into each other at work, it was a surprise to both of us, and so we slowly began talking more at spin classes and at work. As we became more comfortable with each other, it became obvious that we enjoyed each other's company. Sounds good so far, right? Well, here's where it gets sticky: she's not just a regular employee at work. She's a high-up ... like a six-figure high-up. Yeah, that kind.

 

And so here's where it gets even more interesting: up until about a month ago, I never had any kind of idea or feeling that she might be interested in me in any way other than friends. Besides, I'm the kind of guy that pretty much has to be told "I like you" in order to believe it, as I try to not read into anything for fear of overanalyzing … kind of like I'm doing now. So about a month ago, I started noticing things that she would do or say that made me wonder if maybe she was flirting with me. Here are some examples:

• Any time we have a conversation, there is great eye contact between us, along with constant smiling. I mean like two or three minutes straight and uninterrupted.
  
• She's quiet and keeps to herself, yet she goes out of her way to find me and talk to me or grab my attention, both at work and at class.
  
• She has gone out of her way to become friends with my friends, both at work and at class.
  
• Three of her employees/friends have come up to me in the last month to tell me that she was talking about me at lunch.
  
• She recently made the comment that she would like to come over to my place one night and check it out (that was a week ago, and it hasn't happened yet because we've both been busy every night … the topic hasn't been brought up since).
  
• She's invited me to do other fitness activities outside of class, and I have invited her, as well, yet one of us always has something else going on at the time.
  
• Beginning recently, as she's leaving work, she'll walk by my desk, smile, and say something like "Hope to see you later." (meaning at class, obviously) And she says it loud enough for others to hear.
  
• She recently asked me if I have a girlfriend.
  
• Occasionally, there will be a hint of sexual innuendo in something that she tells/asks me.
  

 

There are more examples, but those are just off the top of my head. The only thing that she's never done that would make me believe she is flirting with me is touching. We've known each other for a year and we've never made physical contact of any kind. In a way, this is understandable considering her position and she has to be extremely careful of such things, even outside of work. But still, it's the only thing that really makes me question if she's flirting or just wants to be friends.

 

On the flip side of these positive signs, I can also think of arguments that would explain why they should be taken as nothing more than friendly gestures. She's in a managerial position, she's a very confident woman, and she has plenty of experience with social situations, which could explain the eye contact, smiling, and openness. She also has a lot of male friends, which would explain … well, pretty much everything else.

 

And before I get the whole "forget it, you guys work together" talk, she and I both know that I'm only using the job I currently have as a stepping stone, so chances are I will be off of her floor and out of her building within the next 3-5 months. I've even had a few people come up and ask "So when are you going to ask _____ out?", or "Are you and _______ going out yet?" I never answer because I know they're just fishing for gossip. However, in all honesty, I would be fine with any type of relationship with this woman, whether it be intimate or just as friends, because she's one of the coolest (and most beautiful) women I've ever met. I just wish I could figure out which one she wanted. Any insight?

[WTFBBQ]

If you want to play in the Big Boys League, you wait your 3-5 months until you are out of her company to ask her out. Otherwise, you two are just grist for the gossip mill. Use that time to get to know her as a person.

 

Or... Since you called her a "cougar," you don't seem to have much respect for her, and are just looking for a good time. If that's the case, then ask her out, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Feelin Frisky]

Who gives a shi+ about grist for the gossip mill? If there's no one serious in your life and she's interested, and as you said, "hi up" in the company, she'll probably want to be discreet around the job. "One in hand is worth two in the bush" as the saying goes. If you dig her, go for it. Maybe she'll just want you for an eff buddy. That's not a bad thing when it comes to knockin' boots with an older babe. You both know it just sex and not all about wedding bell drama.

[xpaperxcutx]

I take the chance and bang her in the copy room. Or the coffee room... or the meeting room....

[Trimmer]

Yeah - what's with the 'cougar' label? Not classy at all. And more to the point, apart from the fact that you called her that, do you think of her that way?

[jamesum]

Is Cougar a negative label?

[zengirl]

Is Cougar a negative label?

 

Yes. It's generally related only to older women who seek to sleep with young men and "hunt" for them.

[bac]

I would assume that she wants to have sex with you. What might she want else? Building team work, perhaps. But, she can not have sex with you because she does not want to have troubles at job.

She takes too much initiative to flirt with you, that is unusual.

Because most cougars are like predators with little impulse control,so, if they want an younger guy, they typically go and get him right away instead of teasing themselves sexually with no reward.

Does she hit on other young guys?

Edited August 1, 2010 by bac

[linwood]

Is Cougar a negative label?

 

Only to overly sensitive uptight women.

[Sophia8]

Is Cougar a negative label?

 

Yes, as it implies that older women are sexual predators on the prowl for "cubs" (young men) - whereas people seem to accept it more if an older man finds a younger woman.

 

 

Anyway, I think that you should find out whether she likes you and if so see where it goes. The rumours don't matter, especially if you are going to be leaving the company shortly. Life is, afterall, short!

[jamesum]

Yes, as it implies that older women are sexual predators on the prowl for "cubs" (young men) - whereas people seem to accept it more if an older man finds a younger woman.

But that is kind of the truth. A woman who is 10 years older than a guy is more likely to see him only in sexual way since he usually doesnt really have anything else to offer her.

 

On the other hand, when an older man seeks a younger woman, he usually also intends to look after her and invest in her.

[Trimmer]

Whether and why the term "cougar" is generally considered negative is not the topic here, though. The fact is, it's generally applied to significantly older women who seek significantly younger men for sex, in a predatory way.

 

So what is on topic here, is that this specific OP used it to describe the woman he's talking about, so my question remains: OP, is that the way you see her, and yourself?

[Blur83]

So what is on topic here, is that this specific OP used it to describe the woman he's talking about, so my question remains: OP, is that the way you see her, and yourself?

 

I have an update, but first I would like to address your question, Trimmer. It's always been my understanding that the term cougar was used to describe females in their late 30s-40s who were aggressive and seductive in their approach toward younger men. In my ignorance (no sarcasm, here), I've inappropriately and incorrectly labeled this woman, as I've realized over the last month that that term is not always representative of an older, more mature woman who happens to be attracted to younger men. With that being said, however, I do feel like this woman has been rather aggressive toward me, even more so since I last posted, though I do believe I was wrong and disrespectful in labeling her as a cougar. Luckily, I've never used that term when describing the situation to others, or especially directly toward her.

 

So, more has happened since my first post. Here are some of the things that have happened recently, and I'll list them in the order that they occurred:

• She invited herself over to my place one evening to check it out. She stayed for about an hour and had to leave because she had class, but she voluntarily gave me her number as she was leaving.
  
• While she was at my place, she made several comments that hinted at future relations, such as having room for her stuff. There was some strong sexual innuendo thrown in there from time to time, as well … I'll just say that she seems very interested in my bed.
  
• She's volunteered and gone out with me several times to help pick out new furniture/accessories for my place.
  
• I took a vacation last week, and on Monday night, the very first day, she texted me to ask me how my day went. I saw her at class every night after that, so there was no need for texting, but I just thought it was odd that she did that, knowing she would see me the next day.
  

 

She's done and said much more than that, but those are the things that really stick out at the moment. Also, the eye contact and smiling has become intense, to say the least. It's gotten to the point now where, even at work, we'll stare at each other and smile as we pass each other in the hall or outside, no matter who we're with or who's around, and we don't even acknowledge anyone else.

 

I have a few very attractive older female friends in their late 30s who also like younger guys, so I've asked them for their take on the situation, and they all agree that she is interested in some sort of relationship. I've asked for their advice on how to handle it, and they all gave me some different answers:

• One friend told me that I should just ask her out, plain and simple. I don't know much about her interests, other than fitness, so I asked her if she wanted to see a movie and her response was "I don't really care to go see movies ... I'll just wait for it on DVD." No counter-offer, no nothing ... the end.
  
• After that failed attempt, another friend told me that since she's been so aggressive about wanting to come over to my place, and since she talks about her place so much, that I should jokingly ask to go over to her place. Well I did, and she turned red with embarrassment and said "Nope, not gonna happen." Then she went on to explain in great detail about what a private person she is and how I shouldn't take it personally. She then told me that her best friend of 15 years is the only person that's ever been in her house, and she's only been in it twice.
  
• A third friend has told me that since she gave me her number without me ever even asking for it, that she obviously wants me to contact her; however, after her explanation of how private she is, on top of the fact that she's incredibly independent and several years older than me, I don't want to cross any boundaries and abuse having her number. Up to this point, in the three weeks that I've had it, I've only initiated contact with her twice. Usually we don't have to call/text because we see each other every day, anyway.
  

 

So after all of this, this brings me to today, and I'm more confused than ever, as are my female friends. How should I handle it from here? I feel like I may have crossed the line by asking to come over to her place, but then again, what I said was child's play compared to some of the things she's said to me. I like this woman a lot, and I could most definitely see myself having a serious relationship with her at some point. I just don't know how to handle it anymore. At this point, I think I only have two options: 1. Back way off and let her initiate things from here forward and take a chance on her losing interest completely, or 2. Straight up ask her what she enjoys doing and ask her if she would like to do one of those things this weekend. What do you all think?

[LisaLee]

I think at this point you need to just ask her out to dinner and drinks and see what happens.

[Trimmer]

I think you're too in awe of her. It sounds like she's got you wrapped around her little finger, hopping and dancing to figure out what will work best for her, and tiptoeing around making sure you don't do anything wrong. If you anticipate that this dynamic would work for you, should a relationship actually happen, then that's fine, but you might want to take a longer view of how your personalities might fit together, and start being a little more assertive and less submissive...

 

For me, the whole "I'm so private you can't see my place" would have been prime territory for kidding her back (or maybe a red flag that she's got something she doesn't want you to see....)

 

Her interest in your bed makes things a little obvious, doesn't it?

 

And the comment about having room for her stuff... at your place? Not quite sure what to think, other than, why haven't you backed her up against the wall and stuck your tongue down her throat yet?

 

Is it just me who thinks she being super obvious here?

[naya1]

shes friendly. eye contact can really mislead a lot of people into thinking there is something more.

[melodymatters]

Perhaps she's a little confused herself, thus the mixed signals. " I shouldn't, he's too young, we work together, but, but, but..."

 

Yeah, I say confidently ask her out for an eating or drinking thing and if she gives you yet another weird answer, then let it go.

[ascendotum]

When I read the first half of your 2nd post I was thinking 's**t! and you are waiting for her to initiate some arm/hand touching to confirm that she is keen on you', but then when I read the 2nd half, I can see why you are unsure and posting for advice.

I'd ask her out to a local bar nearby after work on a Friday and see what ensues after she has had a couple of drinks. If she sees you as only short term fun then she might want her place to remain out of bounds. There were enough very positive incidents listed there for me to think it’s only a matter of time.

[wishing4thefuture]

However, in all honesty, I would be fine with any type of relationship with this woman, whether it be intimate or just as friends, because she's one of the coolest (and most beautiful) women I've ever met. I just wish I could figure out which one she wanted. Any insight?

 

Yeah, you would like a romantic relationship with her. Please do not refer to her as a "Cougar". You would be fine with any type of relationship with her, but you want a romantic one. You can invite her over to see your house for dinner. If she accepts the invitation be as respectful as possible and let the situation unfold as comfortably as possible.

[BentSpine]

Is it just me who thinks she being super obvious here?

Not just you. If she had a genuine wish to bed the OP, then I have a completely different dynamic playing out in my head of how she would act. In that scenario, an upcoming meeting would in no way be broadcasted to other employees. Since she's bold enough to make sexual innuendos then I dare say she's bold enough to briefly touch him on the arm if she had wanted to. But she didn't. Major Red Flags. This won't end well.

[a_woman]

She's done and said much more than that, but those are the things that really stick out at the moment. Also, the eye contact and smiling has become intense, to say the least. It's gotten to the point now where, even at work, we'll stare at each other and smile as we pass each other in the hall or outside, no matter who we're with or who's around, and we don't even acknowledge anyone else.

 

[...]

 

• One friend told me that I should just ask her out, plain and simple. I don't know much about her interests, other than fitness, so I asked her if she wanted to see a movie and her response was "I don't really care to go see movies ... I'll just wait for it on DVD." No counter-offer, no nothing ... the end.
  
• After that failed attempt, another friend told me that since she's been so aggressive about wanting to come over to my place, and since she talks about her place so much, that I should jokingly ask to go over to her place. Well I did, and she turned red with embarrassment and said "Nope, not gonna happen." Then she went on to explain in great detail about what a private person she is and how I shouldn't take it personally. She then told me that her best friend of 15 years is the only person that's ever been in her house, and she's only been in it twice.
  
• A third friend has told me that since she gave me her number without me ever even asking for it, that she obviously wants me to contact her; however, after her explanation of how private she is, on top of the fact that she's incredibly independent and several years older than me, I don't want to cross any boundaries and abuse having her number. Up to this point, in the three weeks that I've had it, I've only initiated contact with her twice. Usually we don't have to call/text because we see each other every day, anyway.
  

 

I'm 38 and I know when I fancy a 27-year-old I want to have a drink with him and see where it takes us. I don't do 'movie dates' anymore, would only do that with an LTR or friends. not really with someone I pretty much want to jump.

 

so I say she wants to have sex with you, if that's what you want as well ask her out for a drink.

 

if she says no then you will know you are flogging a dead horse and move on. don't worry about 'abusing her number' she wouldn't have given it to you. she just isn't into teenage stuff like 'movie dates' anymore.

[mitchell]

You sound like a total weenie.

 

Why all of the second guessing andn over analyzing? She's interested. Are you? If you are, ask her out for drinks and dinner one night after work.

[Blur83]

Her interest in your bed makes things a little obvious, doesn't it?

 

And the comment about having room for her stuff... at your place? Not quite sure what to think, other than, why haven't you backed her up against the wall and stuck your tongue down her throat yet?

 

Is it just me who thinks she being super obvious here?

 

Trimmer, there are days when I think that she couldn't be more obvious even if she was waving a big flag that said "I'M INTERESTED, ASK ME OUT", and then the very next day, she'll say something or act in a way that makes me think the exact opposite. Also, she has mentioned how she values her independence to me a couple of times, which leads me to believe that she may just want something casual. This whole situation may sound obvious to some of you, but it's confusing as hell to me, which is why I'm asking for your opinions, since you are all looking from the outside in.

 

Also, more and more people we work with are slowly beginning to think that we're going out. I haven't said a word to anyone I work with, so that means that either she has said something to someone, or people are making assumptions based on the way we act around each other. A guy even came up to me today and asked "So you and ______ are going out, huh?" So yeah, it's apparently widely-believed.

[meerkat stew]

Skip the date, not necessary and may send her the wrong signals. Just invite her back to your place under some pretense and have sex with her. She's literally begging you to do that, and may not want the perception of actually -dating- you. If you want sex, have sex. If you want to -date- her, have sex, lots of it, get her high on oxytocin, and then dating may become more palatable to her.

 

As far as "cougar" goes, I used to think it was mildly derogatory, but nah not anymore. Men dating younger women are called "creeper" "codger" and "lech," "cougar" is certainly more favorable, and our culture is intent on having a descriptive "title" for everything and everyone. Cougar is much better than prospective alternatives, so women should stick to that one instead of inviting a new term that is likely to be truly offensive.

[Trimmer]

Skip the date, not necessary and may send her the wrong signals. Just invite her back to your place under some pretense and have sex with her. She's literally begging you to do that, and may not want the perception of actually -dating- you. If you want sex, have sex.

I tend to think it's going in this direction...

 

You say her signals are confusing... Maybe so if you're just looking at her signals in one dimension, but let's break things down and see how they look across two dimensions:

 

First, look at what signals she is sending about being sexually interested in you. Have there been positive signals that she's interested? Has she ever said anything negative, from a sexual interest perspective? I bet if you look over her behavior and her talk, most of it related to sexual interest is positive.

 

Then, look at what signals she sends about being interested in sharing an emotional connection with you. I bet those signals have been generally negative.

 

Is that true? Maybe she's being more consistent than you think...