***the end game***

[YellowShark]

When my EX cheated on me I read nearly ever OM/OW thread at Loveshack seeking wisdom. So I thought I would start a thread on it.

 

The common theme I see is this.

 

So many people posting here who are engaged in an affair don't think about the end-game of their affair. They are near-sighted, selfish, and delusional. Either they end up getting hearbroken because the OM/OW cheats on them eventually, or the OM/OW goes back to their betrayed spouse and they are left holding the bag.

 

Then "they" act surprised when the cheating OM/OW - (that they are having the affair with) - betrays them!

 

What are your thoughts?

[califnan]

When my EX cheated on me I read nearly ever OM/OW thread at Loveshack seeking wisdom. So I thought I would start a thread on it.

 

The common theme I see is this.

 

So many people posting here who are engaged in an affair don't think about the end-game of their affair. They are near-sighted, selfish, and delusional. Either they end up getting hearbroken because the OM/OW cheats on them eventually, or the OM/OW goes back to their betrayed spouse and they are left holding the bag.

 

Then "they" act surprised when the cheating OM/OW - (that they are having the affair with) - betrays them!

 

What are your thoughts?

 

-------------------

 

A "delusional" fantasy is what it is .. with the common denonminater of hope for the future..

 

I think this - as many situations in life, should have an escape plan - rather than hope that things will get better.

 

Where would bank robbers and gamblers be - if they didn't have an escape plan .. Their fate would be decided for them. Better to be in control of one's life - where unnatural things are concerned.

[Gfkr2]

My experience as the BH is a little different. I discovered my cheating W had A 6 month PA/EA with a MM.

 

I told her our M was over and would be pursing divorce mediation, which begins next week. There was overwhelming deception making any hope of reconsilation impossible.

 

WW decided it was time to gamble "all in" with her MM who was still at home with his BW and children. She is banking on her MM leaving his wife in "2 to 3 years" when his children are old enough to understand. I doubt he is going anywhere, but WW is in too deep to change her chosen direction.

 

Our M will be ending in a divorce and I presume she will be happy to assume the role of a kept woman, but without the financial support of her MM. I think she is in for a rude awakening being alone while her MM buys time with his BW and family, and I've moved onto a better life.

[YellowShark]

Our M will be ending in a divorce and I presume she will be happy to assume the role of a kept woman, but without the financial support of her MM. I think she is in for a rude awakening being alone while her MM buys time with his BW and family, and I've moved onto a better life.

 

I know how you feel. I too have moved on to a better life while my EX watches her MM and wife deliver their first born this month. Blows my mind that that is the path she has chosen.

 

Alas your soon-to-be EX falls into the "holding the bag" category while she awaits MM to leave his family.

[xpaperxcutx]

Humans are irrational when it come to emotions. Just like dating can give person a high, being wanted by another person ( outside of a marriage) can make an individual do silly things.

 

 

Maybe it just have something to do with adrenaline.

[YellowShark]

Humans are irrational when it come to emotions. Just like dating can give person a high, being wanted by another person (outside of a marriage) can make an individual do silly things. Maybe it just have something to do with adrenaline.

 

There are many rationalizations for an affair... but after reading so many of these threads the typical end result I can see repeated time and time again is the "MW/MW" doesn't leave their marriage, (or goes back to it), or the "MM/MW" ends up eventually cheating on their affair partner with someone else.

 

My "end-game" was that we had an EA before the PA and during this time I was told that he was getting a divorce. He actually asked her for one (I was part of the three-way conversation; I heard everything that went on) and I think he fully intended to go through with it. As time went on he decided he couldn't do it to her. So our being together was always the "end-game".

 

Once again. You were left "holding the bag" while he stayed with his wife. That was the end game IMHO.

[Silly_Girl]

There are many rationalizations for an affair... but after reading so many of these threads the typical end result I can see repeated time and time again is the "MW/MW" doesn't leave their marriage, (or goes back to it), or the "MM/MW" ends up eventually cheating on their affair partner with someone else.

QUOTE]

 

Is that referenced on here YS? Only I would be interested in that and don't recall seeing it. Are you referring to when the AP 'wins' and they go on to form a full, open relationship, but then the cheating continues?

[Fieldsofgold]

My "end-game" was that we had an EA before the PA and during this time I was told that he was getting a divorce. He actually asked her for one (I was part of the three-way conversation; I heard everything that went on) and I think he fully intended to go through with it. As time went on he decided he couldn't do it to her. So our being together was always the "end-game".

 

There's one here or there that doesn't end up that way . . . Buuuuut . . . I think in 99% of cases, the WS doesn't leave, and the A was always the "end game."

 

Here's what amazes me - - - with divorce rates skyrocketting - - - it almost seems like the ONLY ones who *aren't* divorcing are the ones in a affair . . . They always turn up back home with the BS like a bad penny - IF the BS will let them. Really makes me wonder about some things.

[ladygaga]

 

Here's what amazes me - - - with divorce rates skyrocketting - - - it almost seems like the ONLY ones who *aren't* divorcing are the ones in a affair . . . They always turn up back home with the BS like a bad penny - IF the BS will let them. Really makes me wonder about some things.

 

 

While the affair may not end the marriage immediately, I'm sure it plays a huge role contributing to their eventual divorce (if they do it). Sometimes, it make take years before this happens. Lots of people go back to their BS because they have a duty to work it out, especially when kids are involved. I know of a MM who had an affair, but decided to wait 15 years for the kids to be grown up until he got his divorce.

 

The problems that existed before the affair started rarely get resolved. And if the affair was make known to the BS, the trust is gone as well. When trust is gone, you are playing a losing hand. It just takes time for a marriage to dissolve.

[YellowShark]

Are you referring to when the AP 'wins' and they go on to form a full, open relationship, but then the cheating continues?

 

All I can say is what I've observed from reading so many of the threads in "The Other Man / Woman." The cheaters eventually cheat on their affair partners, OR they leave their affair partners "holding the bag" and, A) don't leave the marriage, or B) go back to the marriage.

 

It rarely - if ever - seems like they live happily ever after from what I have read here. Certainly there must be exceptions to the rule, but they seem very very rare cases.

 

In fact I have two couples I know personally who left their partners for the people they cheated with. And in both cases they ended up cheating on their NEW partners with someone else. One took about 3 years to do it, the other was within a year.

[Silly_Girl]

While the affair may not end the marriage immediately, I'm sure it plays a huge role contributing to their eventual divorce (if they do it). Sometimes, it make take years before this happens. Lots of people go back to their BS because they have a duty to work it out, especially when kids are involved. I know of a MM who had an affair, but decided to wait 15 years for the kids to be grown up until he got his divorce.

 

The problems that existed before the affair started rarely get resolved. And if the affair was make known to the BS, the trust is gone as well. When trust is gone, you are playing a losing hand. It just takes time for a marriage to dissolve.

 

I agree totally. I posted elsewhere today about how often post-D-day actions and proclamations can be knee-jerk due to the shock. It's often long after that the true impact sets in. I remember, with my ex-SO that often I was keen to restore the status quo after a 'breach', but then, as things calmed down and I processed things, my view changed. Or my emotions began to show more, and were truer.

 

I know a couple of couples who split up and said 'no one was involved', but ultimately there HAD been issues, there had been infidelity; but it went back a bit. One couple it was less than a year and the other was nearly two years. But it was there.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Certainly there must be exceptions to the rule, but they seem very very rare cases.

 

 

It is the 'rare exception' that people tend to pay more attention to than the usual way it ends. That is why so many are caught off guard when the affair ends, or an OOP shows up in the picture. Even with the dismal odds, people tend to think of themselves in the smaller percentage rather than the greater on (love tends to do that, I guess).

[tami-chan]

There's one here or there that doesn't end up that way . . . Buuuuut . . . I think in 99% of cases, the WS doesn't leave, and the A was always the "end game."

 

Here's what amazes me - - - with divorce rates skyrocketting - - - it almost seems like the ONLY ones who *aren't* divorcing are the ones in a affair . . . They always turn up back home with the BS like a bad penny - IF the BS will let them. Really makes me wonder about some things.

 

"Seems" is the operative word. These days, the marriage success rate is about 50%. Of the 50% that end in divorce, many are because of adultery. We are only mostly reading about people involved in affairs, whose affair partners seem either unable to choose between the spouse or the affair partner or those affair partners who were left in favor of their spouses and those married people who choose to stay in a joyless marriage. There are many more people who are not on LS whose stories are different than what's usually shared here.

[Silly_Girl]

All I can say is what I've observed from reading so many of the threads in "The Other Man / Woman." The cheaters eventually cheat on their affair partners, OR they leave their affair partners "holding the bag" and, A) don't leave the marriage, or B) go back to the marriage.

 

 

Right, I haven't seen this on here, and what I am worried about is whether I'm CHOOSING not to! Maybe I've just not been around here long enough...

[Silly_Girl]

It is the 'rare exception' that people tend to pay more attention to than the usual way it ends. That is why so many are caught off guard when the affair ends, or an OOP shows up in the picture. Even with the dismal odds, people tend to think of themselves in the smaller percentage rather than the greater on (love tends to do that, I guess).

 

I didn't 'pay more attention' to anything. I believed wholly and firmly that MM and I would end up together permanently, full-time. I had no infidelity benchmark or role model. I wasn't on LS then

[LucreziaBorgia]

I didn't 'pay more attention' to anything. I believed wholly and firmly that MM and I would end up together permanently, full-time.

 

That is exactly my point. I don't think many people go into an affair thinking anything but that.

 

Well, the ones who are in it for love anyway. Some OW don't want the permanent thing - I never did in my OW days, that is for sure.

 

I had no infidelity benchmark or role model. I wasn't on LS then

 

Oh, c'mon now girl - surely you had heard of affairs before you came to LS! (just ribbing you a bit, no harm meant)

 

I had more than a couple of OM who thought that they were going to end up with me permanently, but my selfish 'want' for short term pleasure outweighed any ethical obligation to tell them that it would never, ever happen in the long run. Unfortunately, there are more than a few people out there who are like I used to be, and not enough people with strong enough bullsh*t detectors to stay away from them.

 

I'll agree that there are exceptions - but they are rare. It is that 'rare occasion' that people tend to hang their hopes on though.

[Butterfly11]

I was reading that 50-80% of people cheat on their spouses. Is anyone safe?

 

I know several men that have said they were "in love" with their spouse but at the same time if they had an opportunity to cheat without being caught, they would take it.

[Mimolicious]

YS-you know what my view is. After all, this thread came from you following up on something that I said on another thread.

 

I have actually learned lately that apparently there is something "AMAZING" out there and once a M person find it, it is a wrap. Classic!

 

If AP are so "AMAZING" as these single minded individuals want to paint themselves as, then why are these MM/MW: 1. hardly ever leave 2. they leave and run back home in 3 weeks or 3 months tops! 3. End sad, lonely and broke or but very very rare do they end with their AP and live happily ever after. Like a few posters here have. (don't want to name then because I dont want to deal with the bickering but they are a handfull on LS)

 

Gives meaning to the saying "what starts bad ends bad". When you build your happiness off someone else's misery, you are doomed for the existence of that R. Believe that. This seems to be a way of life though, since the beginnings of time people get caught up in these types of R. They don't see the brick wall because time flies while having fun. Eventually they crash and burn...

 

I personally, would not engage into entertaining an A. I refuse to deal with drama, lies, story telling, calculating, hiding and part-time attention. These are all essential to it and are also all the signs to let me know that it will not end well for me. Saves me crying over spilled milk, at the end.

[awkward]

Yes there are lots of people cheating and yes the divorce rate is high. It blows my mind that so many of these WS's don't divorce. If they are truly unhappy then why is it harder for them to divorce than the others that do it? If the divorce rate was low it would make more sense.

 

Anyways I understand why people are jaded towards marriage but if what you want is a healthy loving marriage then you should continue to try and find the right person. These marriages do exist. People do still grow old together, happily. The chances that you are going to find that type of marriage with someone who is still married to someone else is very low. It does happen but it's like betting against the house.

 

If that isn't what you are looking for then having a relationship with someone who chooses to remain married might work for you. Of course, even without wanting marriage one may still not want their lover to remain married so it really just comes down to what people want and will accept.

 

I think what people want/accepts decides what the end game is.

[Confused4Now]

There's one here or there that doesn't end up that way . . . Buuuuut . . . I think in 99% of cases, the WS doesn't leave, and the A was always the "end game."

 

Here's what amazes me - - - with divorce rates skyrocketting - - - it almost seems like the ONLY ones who *aren't* divorcing are the ones in a affair . . . They always turn up back home with the BS like a bad penny - IF the BS will let them. Really makes me wonder about some things.

Well then I'm the 1% cause my affair was more of a exit affair...I was a MM who ended up becoming the OM. I always had every intention of leaving. however my xMW was certain she was going to divorce never did. Funny how statistically speaking I filed for divorce and my xMW didn't...numbers versus my situation was totally backwards....

[Mimolicious]

Yes there are lots of people cheating and yes the divorce rate is high. It blows my mind that so many of these WS's don't divorce. If they are truly unhappy then why is it harder for them to divorce than the others that do it? If the divorce rate was low it would make more sense.

 

Anyways I understand why people are jaded towards marriage but if what you want is a healthy loving marriage then you should continue to try and find the right person. These marriages do exist. People do still grow old together, happily. The chances that you are going to find that type of marriage with someone who is still married to someone else is very low. It does happen but it's like betting against the house.

 

If that isn't what you are looking for then having a relationship with someone who chooses to remain married might work for you. Of course, even without wanting marriage one may still not want their lover to remain married so it really just comes down to what people want and will accept.

 

I think what people want/accepts decides what the end game is.

 

100000%! Yes, it is about what you are willing to accept and your own standards. Life and a failed M due to infidelity has taught me that. I have a list of standards and if you don't meet then then... NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are just few demographics of my list that are benable but your R status is not one of them! I wont even deal with a person that is "separated". That translates into "we are on pause". NEXT!!!!!! I refuse to be used and abused!

[tami-chan]

YS-you know what my view is. After all, this thread came from you following up on something that I said on another thread.

 

I have actually learned lately that apparently there is something "AMAZING" out there and once a M person find it, it is a wrap. Classic!

 

If AP are so "AMAZING" as these single minded individuals want to paint themselves as, then why are these MM/MW: 1. hardly ever leave 2. they leave and run back home in 3 weeks or 3 months tops! 3. End sad, lonely and broke or but very very rare do they end with their AP and live happily ever after. Like a few posters here have. (don't want to name then because I dont want to deal with the bickering but they are a handfull on LS)

 

 

...because many times, even how amazing the other person is...many married APs are concerned about the financial fall-out and still others after following their "hearts" realize that the little lives that depend on them deserve an intact nuclear family. It is the same reason that many BSs stay in the marriage despite being hurt and humiliated. Still others, of course, stay because they realize who they truly love.

[White Flower]

There's one here or there that doesn't end up that way . . . Buuuuut . . . I think in 99% of cases, the WS doesn't leave, and the A was always the "end game."

 

Here's what amazes me - - - with divorce rates skyrocketting - - - it almost seems like the ONLY ones who *aren't* divorcing are the ones in a affair . . . They always turn up back home with the BS like a bad penny - IF the BS will let them. Really makes me wonder about some things.

I don't think they're reported on here frequently and accurately.

 

I read a poll at SI where the question was asked how many M ended in R (reconciliation) and during that week the posts reflected at about 10%; whereas here at LS, it is 'very rare' that As end up in M.

 

I look at it this way. I have always journaled during bad times. LS is like a journal to me. When life was good, I was too busy living it! Therefore, had no time for journaling.

 

Only difference is, the journal talks back to me here:cool: so I keep posting, even on good days. But when I post something good about MM and me, it gets shot down and teaches me (all of us) that we just 'can't' be happy about our A sitch.

 

In conclusion, compare the D rate with the A rate and do your own math. Don't let a bunch of strangers on the internet tell you the reality of the end game.

[White Flower]

When my EX cheated on me I read nearly ever OM/OW thread at Loveshack seeking wisdom. So I thought I would start a thread on it.

 

The common theme I see is this.

 

So many people posting here who are engaged in an affair don't think about the end-game of their affair. They are near-sighted, selfish, and delusional. Either they end up getting hearbroken because the OM/OW cheats on them eventually, or the OM/OW goes back to their betrayed spouse and they are left holding the bag.

 

Then "they" act surprised when the cheating OM/OW - (that they are having the affair with) - betrays them!

 

What are your thoughts?

I remember starting my A with apprehension. I fought it for about a year and a half as he pursued me relentlessly. One day I just threw my cares into the wind.

 

So unlike me.

 

In that moment, I had made a contract with myself that no matter how badly it ended, no matter how shocked or surprised I'd be should it end, I deserved it because I was gambling with an unknown entity.

 

On D-day #2 I faced that shock. He'd said he would fess up if confronted and he didn't. Years of trust went right down the drain.

 

But you are right, I deserved it on account of that contract I made with the unknown way back when.

 

But it goes much deeper than being selfish, near-sighted, and delusional. I will accept the selfish part and even the delusional part but not the near-sighted part. I always knew I took a risk and knew the outcome could possibly be bad, and it was.

 

The selfish part was...lol...for me. I was pretty much selfLESS in my M and always put my exH first, so much so that I walked on eggshells most of the time. I won't bore you with all the many ways I tried to get my exH to love me, get us in MC, etc., etc., you can read my early threads and posts for that. But when all else failed, and Tall Drink of Water came in, the RISK became worth it to me. I even allowed the delusional to take place because I felt I NEEDED it. People don't accept these conditions unless their life is unsatisfactory. OK, that sounds cold. Unless their life is empty, sad, depressing, insecure, etc. THAT is when we take on risks and step outside of ourselves.

 

I'm not saying there aren't those who just want a bigger **** or lots of variety but I don't think most APs are like that. I think most APs, especially those stuck in sad Ms, are in it for the beautiful distraction, love, and companionship an A can bring.

 

So go ahead and minimize the intelligence of the AP if you wish, but oftentimes they are not the mindless wandering souls you think they are. Oftentimes they are hurting very deeply and only turn to a different kind of R when the risk outweighs facing the bleakness in their life. They know what they're doing, even if the outcome wasn't what they wanted.

[YellowShark]

On D-day #2 I faced that shock. He'd said he would fess up if confronted and he didn't. Years of trust went right down the drain.

 

So you fell into the category of being left "holding the bag" after investing years with your AP.

 

So go ahead and minimize the intelligence of the AP if you wish, but oftentimes they are not the mindless wandering souls you think they are. Oftentimes they are hurting very deeply and only turn to a different kind of R when the risk outweighs facing the bleakness in their life. They know what they're doing, even if the outcome wasn't what they wanted.

 

I am not minimizing the intelligence of anyone. I don't think they are mindless, I just think they aren't thinking it through to the end game, and are looking for instant gratification.

 

I have observed through the threads I read here at LS that almost always the affairs end up with the AP eventually left "holding the bag" - (like you) - when the MM doesn't leave the marriage as promised, or the OM/OW eventually ends up cheating on the AP too.