Doing what is "right"...

[Fallen Angel]

Respect and dignity happen when you do what is right in spite of what you really want to do or what you feel like doing. They are the basis for character...you know who you are when no one is watching.

 

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

[Silly_Girl]

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

Er... The WS is breaking the marriage vows, boffing someone else, acting in a manner that could very well cause the family to blow apart with traumatic consequences, because he 'wants' a second/spare relationship.

 

In contrast the BS is working towards fixing or maintaining the family structure and bonds, not jeopardising them.

 

So different.

[anothersadstory]

i stayed in my m for my children. for our finances. for what was was supposed to be right. i stayed in my M even though i was unahappy because it was supposed to be the right thing to do. i could never fault another person for doing something like this. in my opinion it is the right thing to do to at least give it your best effort. and i did this, although it did fail, and i will never regret doing so because i knew i gave it my best shot and tried my hardest to make things work.

[Fallen Angel]

Er... The WS is breaking the marriage vows, boffing someone else, acting in a manner that could very well cause the family to blow apart with traumatic consequences, because he 'wants' a second/spare relationship.

 

In contrast the BS is working towards fixing or maintaining the family structure and bonds, not jeopardising them.

 

So different.

 

In my case the BW knows of the affair. Knows it is ongoing, and also chooses to maintain the marriage for now.

 

She is doing what she feels is "right", he is doing what he feels is right by maintaining the marriage relationship. How is that any different? Both know the marriage is unhelathy and unhappy, both maintain it for the same reason, because they have a child that is still in the family home and not of legal age.

 

And who said that the BW in the original story that the post came from was "working towards fixing" anything? It was simply stated that she knows of the ongoing affair and stays in the marriage. I think perhaps you are presuming much here.

 

Edited to add that I am not a "spare" anything, and to refer to me as such is insulting, please do not do it again. Thanks.

[SidLyon]

Respect and dignity happen when you do what is right in spite of what you really want to do or what you feel like doing.

 

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

Another polemic!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

No confusion to me. I think BNB was speaking of someone who really wants to do something dishonorable but instead does the honourable thing.

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

You are just detailing one side - is he not also doing something he considers dishonorable?

[Silly_Girl]

In my case the BW knows of the affair. Knows it is ongoing, and also chooses to maintain the marriage for now.

 

She is doing what she feels is "right", he is doing what he feels is right by maintaining the marriage relationship. How is that any different? Both know the marriage is unhelathy and unhappy, both maintain it for the same reason, because they have a child that is still in the family home and not of legal age.

 

And who said that the BW in the original story that the post came from was "working towards fixing" anything? It was simply stated that she knows of the ongoing affair and stays in the marriage. I think perhaps you are presuming much here.

 

Edited to add that I am not a "spare" anything, and to refer to me as such is insulting, please do not do it again. Thanks.

 

Perhaps, FA, you should have clarified we were talking about you and yours. My post was aimed at the majority of situations and I stand by all of it.

 

In the situations I have read on the boards here the motivation of the WS to stay seems far less pure and more self-serving than that of the BS, for me personally.

[Trimmer]

The phrasing of your OP implies that you are looking for objective, universal answers to questions that will always have morally relative, highly-charged answers that will be completely dependent on what horse a particular person has in the race.

 

To some OW, a BW that stays in the marriage is pathetic - because it helps them to minimize the BW, and because the BW stands in the way of what the OW wants.

 

To other BS, that same BW who stays in the marriage is "taking one for the team" in trying to keep the family together for the kids, because they have empathy, having been in that same situation.

 

To some OW, the MM who stays "for the kids" is honoring a "commitment" (this seems to be your premise, yes?) because it helps them see him in a positive way, even as he is clearly betraying another commitment he made on the very same day he was married.

 

To other OW, that same MM who stays "for the kids" is a weakling, who is lying about staying for the kids, because he simply refuses to commit to the OW and leave his BW.

 

Does it really "floor" you that everyone sees things through a filter that allows them to perceive the story of the world around them in a way that gives them what they want or need? Is it really a surprise that virtually nobody can step back and see the world completely objectively, detached from their own personal experiences, biases, and wounds?

[SidLyon]

...Edited to add that I am not a "spare" anything, and to refer to me as such is insulting, please do not do it again. Thanks.

 

Your original post seemed to be talking about "a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker".

 

 

Sorry if I misunderstood but I thought you are not a co-worker of your MM, so how could SG have been referring to you as a spare?

[sadintexas]

I think what BNB is referring to is the old saying that (not verbatim here) "It's what you do when no one's looking that shows your true character".

 

I don't have to go into detail to explain what a WS does when no one is looking. That's the reason we're all here.

 

May I ask if something has changed in your situation? Last I read you were making assumptions that your guy's W knew the A was ongoing because phone bills and such would prove to her that contact still existed. But the last she actually heard from him was that it was over. Is that not correct?

[TOWinNYC]

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

F-Angel,

 

If I remember correctly, in the other thread it was an issue of "dignity" - and I argued that I didn't think it was particularly dignified for a W to stay M while the H was flaunting his A in her face. But you know how it is - people read what they want to "hear" and they seemed to think what I said was it was undignified to stay and WORK on a M (not true). It's undignified to stay when there is no "work" being done, when the A is continuing to flourish and the W knows about it.

 

But getting back to your post, I can see how it could be considered honorable for your sweetheart to stay in the M in order to fulfill his obligations.

 

But who cares what others think? As long as your sweetheart is honorable in your eyes and you are (from what I've read) happy.

[pureinheart]

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

I understand where you are coming from, and in other situations I have seen this difference and questioned it (other topics).

[Fallen Angel]

Perhaps, FA, you should have clarified we were talking about you and yours. My post was aimed at the majority of situations and I stand by all of it.

 

In the situations I have read on the boards here the motivation of the WS to stay seems far less pure and more self-serving than that of the BS, for me personally.

 

Your original post seemed to be talking about "a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker".

 

 

Sorry if I misunderstood but I thought you are not a co-worker of your MM, so how could SG have been referring to you as a spare?

 

Since I specifically referenced my own relationship in the OP, I must assume that "gerneralized" statements are aimed directly at me unless otherwise specified.

 

I think what BNB is referring to is the old saying that (not verbatim here) "It's what you do when no one's looking that shows your true character".

 

I don't have to go into detail to explain what a WS does when no one is looking. That's the reason we're all here.

 

May I ask if something has changed in your situation? Last I read you were making assumptions that your guy's W knew the A was ongoing because phone bills and such would prove to her that contact still existed. But the last she actually heard from him was that it was over. Is that not correct?

 

She is aware of our continued relationship via several sources. The phone bills are simply one of them.

 

Does it really "floor" you that everyone sees things through a filter that allows them to perceive the story of the world around them in a way that gives them what they want or need? Is it really a surprise that virtually nobody can step back and see the world completely objectively, detached from their own personal experiences, biases, and wounds?

 

It often does truly floor me, though perhaps by this stage in my life I should not be so naive as to believe that the majority of people are able to see things with a broader perspective. *sigh*

[Silly_Girl]

Since I specifically referenced my own relationship in the OP, I must assume that "gerneralized" statements are aimed directly at me unless otherwise specified.

 

 

You referenced yourself, and another scenario, and also didn't specify that only those 2 were permissible to be discussed. Now I realise. Apologies. I'll leave you to it

[seren]

I have a friend who's H is having an A, she and her H have been married for 15 yrs and have 3 children. My friend could manage financially without H, the children would adapt, their life at home remains unchanged, in fact there is an element of her pulling out the stops, and to see him when she says he has to look after the children as she is out on the town is priceless. He hates it that his W is making a social life for herself, he has shared with my H that he has began to see her as a woman again, not just his wife, not just as the children's Mum, and this has made him afraid that she will meet someone and leave.

 

I have asked her why she stays, she says it just isn't bad enough for her to leave as she loves him, she hopes he will see that she is all that and realise what he has at home. IMO he just needs to make a choice, IMO so does she. I truly think the time when she meets someone else will be the time she says enough is enough and tells him to leave. However, I see them together and they flirt far more than they did, they have a very friendly relationship and seem to be spending more and more alone time.

 

Is this right? well no, not in my opinion, I would rather they split up and went separate ways, but I am not living their lives. It wouldn't work for me.

[Hazyhead]

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

With regards to his children, sure, it could be considered honourable to a full time parent in their lives. But his wife? Perhaps if he were honest with her about what was going on and how he felt... then maybe. I do think that he might use the fact that she 'probably' knows as a reason to avoid that conflict. Sorry FA, but I dont believe he's completely honourable in his choice. There marriage may well be as good as over, but whilst he is still in an affair, he can't work to make that right anyway.

 

Personally, this was my xAP's reason for seeing out his marriage - divorce or reconciliation. I understand it when there's children involved, but I think the difference is he got down off the fence.

[Hazyhead]

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

With regards to his children, sure, it could be considered honourable to a full time parent in their lives. But his wife? Perhaps if he were honest with her about what was going on and how he felt... then maybe. I do think that he might use the fact that she 'probably' knows as a reason to avoid that conflict. Sorry FA, but I dont believe he's completely honourable in his choice. There marriage may well be as good as over, but whilst he is still in an affair, he can't work to make that right anyway.

 

Personally, this was my xAP's reason for seeing out his marriage - divorce or reconciliation. I understand it when there's children involved, but I think the difference is he got down off the fence. And, despite all the hurt, I do respect how he handled it... in the end.

[jwi71]

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

What commitment? He broke it. It no longer exists for him.

You cannot rightfully say he is committed to her when he is not.

What I do NOT understand is, if the W knows, why doesn't she and the OW directly speak and make arrangements - after all, she knows and clearly doesn't care. Yet that never happens - just like in your case FA - why haven't you knocked on his front door? Or spoken directly to her?

IT seems very suspicious to me that the W knows, and everyone knows about you, but you cannot, especially after all these years, have an amicable lunch. Maybe you could babysit his kids while she dates?

 

And, last I heard, you hadn't met his kids yet (forgive me if I get you confused - been so long since and update from you). Why not (if Im wrong, then that's clearly not a valid question).

 

See where I'm going? Its a non-sequitir in my book. Seems like it would be much easier to lay out the ground rules face-to-face ya know?

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children

I'm a divorced dad. Does your MM think I am NOT raising my children? That I have abandoned them in some way? That I am not living up to my obligation to raise them?

 

This was a topic I spent more than a few IC session on, reading the literature (the long term studies comparing nuclear to non-nuclear households) - results of said studies: no statistical difference in the "success" of the children. Ask an IC or phone your local psychology dept (at a university) and I'm sure they would provide you studies too.

 

He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

Because he broke the commitment. That's why. He changed it and didn't allow his W the luxury of the same. However, since she knows, there shouldn't be a problem of you two meeting. I alluded to it above FA, I wonder how much better it could be for everyone to have a sit down, hash out some rules and begin to cooperate - you know, so the W can have a life too (dating I mean).

[wheelwright]

The phrasing of your OP implies that you are looking for objective, universal answers to questions that will always have morally relative, highly-charged answers that will be completely dependent on what horse a particular person has in the race.

 

To some OW, a BW that stays in the marriage is pathetic - because it helps them to minimize the BW, and because the BW stands in the way of what the OW wants.

 

To other BS, that same BW who stays in the marriage is "taking one for the team" in trying to keep the family together for the kids, because they have empathy, having been in that same situation.

 

To some OW, the MM who stays "for the kids" is honoring a "commitment" (this seems to be your premise, yes?) because it helps them see him in a positive way, even as he is clearly betraying another commitment he made on the very same day he was married.

 

To other OW, that same MM who stays "for the kids" is a weakling, who is lying about staying for the kids, because he simply refuses to commit to the OW and leave his BW.

 

Does it really "floor" you that everyone sees things through a filter that allows them to perceive the story of the world around them in a way that gives them what they want or need? Is it really a surprise that virtually nobody can step back and see the world completely objectively, detached from their own personal experiences, biases, and wounds?

 

Thought this a good response.

 

But like FA, also see that some people's filters take an appreciation of the other backer's horses in their overall appraisal.

[LucreziaBorgia]

 

She is doing what she feels is "right", he is doing what he feels is right by maintaining the marriage relationship. How is that any different? Both know the marriage is unhelathy and unhappy, both maintain it for the same reason, because they have a child that is still in the family home and not of legal age.

 

 

Honestly FA, I don't see either of them doing what is right. I see them doing what is easiest for them to do.

 

Unfortunately, 'easy' is going to hurt everyone in the long run, even the child/red they are trying to protect.

[Jilly Bean]

Fallen - your argument can be built to suit anyone's purpose, even to support your side that cheating is "OK".

 

For example, Jeffrey Dahmer, notorious serial killer, cannibalized his victims. However, he did wear a condom before having sex with them.

 

So, you could argue he was "doin' the right thing"!, right?

 

But, I have to think you posted a thread like this, because you know deep down that cheating is wrong, and so is your part in it. You're just hoping more than a handful will agree with you so you feel absolved.

 

It's called "rationalizing"...

[jthorne]

Am I the only one to smell the reek of hypocrisy on this thread? Participating in an affair is not honorable, period. So before one shines a light of "dishonerability" on someone, perhaps they should first shine it upon themselves.

[Spark1111]

The phrasing of your OP implies that you are looking for objective, universal answers to questions that will always have morally relative, highly-charged answers that will be completely dependent on what horse a particular person has in the race.

 

To some OW, a BW that stays in the marriage is pathetic - because it helps them to minimize the BW, and because the BW stands in the way of what the OW wants.

 

To other BS, that same BW who stays in the marriage is "taking one for the team" in trying to keep the family together for the kids, because they have empathy, having been in that same situation.

 

To some OW, the MM who stays "for the kids" is honoring a "commitment" (this seems to be your premise, yes?) because it helps them see him in a positive way, even as he is clearly betraying another commitment he made on the very same day he was married.

 

To other OW, that same MM who stays "for the kids" is a weakling, who is lying about staying for the kids, because he simply refuses to commit to the OW and leave his BW.

 

Does it really "floor" you that everyone sees things through a filter that allows them to perceive the story of the world around them in a way that gives them what they want or need? Is it really a surprise that virtually nobody can step back and see the world completely objectively, detached from their own personal experiences, biases, and wounds?

 

Trimmer, great post!

 

We all view life through our own perceptions, our own filters.

 

What makes the affair dynamic so delusional is that our assumptions are based on information supplied by one person, the MP having the affair.

 

Unless all parties of the triangle sit down and have a truth telling session with each other, (ahhhahahahahaha) there is truly NO WAY to ascertain if your filters are are based in reality.

 

And yes, character is who you are when you think no one is looking.

 

Everything else is smoke and mirrors and justification, IMHO.

[OWoman]

My father "did what was right" and stayed in the M until the kids were grown, before leaving to M the woman he loved.

 

It was misguided, but he felt it was right.

 

I wish he hadn't.

[2sure]

Ive seen it. A BS who is aware of cheating and stays. And it is often for the same reason that the WS stays. For the kids, for the family.

 

The WS feels that this phase will end and that its worth waiting for. The WS often feels that in the end things will turn out the way they are supposed too. The WS thinks that sacrificing this period of the marriage to keep her family together is worth it. They aren't fooling themselves and know its a risk. They are not necessarily being doormats either, just realistic. They may even know that despite this period, their spouse will not leave , and for whatever reason...they look the other way. And I didnt do it ...but I dont think a BS would stay, unless they KNEW what the end result would be.

 

It shows some integrity in that they are not lying to themselves. They make themselves happier in other ways. They are not betraying anyone.

 

For the WS its different. They are lying, unless their spouse has agreed to an open marriage. They say they are willing to make the sacrifice of staying in an unhappy marriage for the children - when really a sacrifice is only made when you do without. Which they arent. Worse, when it comes down to it, the children are grown, the BS asks for divorce...they still wont sacrifice - not to BS, not the children, not the OW.

[califnan]

This has happened over time. There was plenty of warning as to what was going down - for Both AP's.

 

Both AP's are doing what Feels good.

Edited August 2, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator