Doing what is "right"...

[donnamaybe]

The thread is titled 'Doing what is "right"'.

 

The above is FAR from 'right'. I think he needs some help to unravel this priority business. Things are shades of grey, but I feel he is doing his best by NO ONE. Kids deserve better.

 

Not quite true. He does what is best for HIM.

[In_Repair]

Absolutely!! In fact, as an unapologetic OW if I were to come here and post that I was having a "trying" day with my sweetheart and just needed to vent about my relationship being momentarily unhappy, I would get slammed with posts about how I should initiate immediate and permanent NC!!

 

 

I think you would have to give other members a break on this one. I've never read any threads where you explained your situation, and I assumed you were having a "normal" affair. The OW to an open marriage is a different thing. If the wife knows all about you and still doesn't care, then I don't see where anyone can really throw stones at you. I wasn't throwing stones anyway. I was an OM, so it's not like I'm condemning you for your relationship.

 

I am still confused though about parts of your story. You have already explained it, but there are questions for me about the whole thing that I guess only he could answer. You are following his wishes, I just don't understand his motivation in asking you to. I get the whole thing about not wanting to leave his kids, because I initially tried to stay with my WS for the same reason... but if that were the case, and being with his children was that important to him, why risk losing them by having an affair in the first place? Did him and his wife already have this agreement before you came along? How did he know that he wouldn't lose the kids as soon as she found out?

 

Like I said, I understand not wanting to lose any time with your children... but my children are five and two, and I have been with them on a daily basis since they were born. His kids are almost grown and he has been absent a great deal of their lives. Plus, couldn't an "almost grown" kid come see him anyway, regardless of visitation orders? Most of the time, a 16 year old's testimony will be considered when deciding custody or visitation. How old are they? If he has a strong relationship with them, he will get to see them. At the end of the day... what would be the worst case scenario? He would have to rearrange his schedule, like every other single parent does?

 

If their marriage is so bad that they allow OM/OW, then I don't see how a divorce would be any worse of an example for them. Considering their age, unless they are completely clueless, then they know something is off. At least I hope they know something is off. I would hate to think that they are growing up under the impression that this is how you conduct a marriage. It's been proven time and time again that the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree in this regard. Does he want to one day see his daughter in a situation like the one his wife is living in?

[califnan]

I've never read any The OW to an open marriage is a different thing. If the wife knows all about you QUOTE]

 

-----------------------

 

IF the W knows about the OW - How does this constitute an "open marriage".. Humiliation for the W, perhaps - but now it's an open marriage??

[Snowflower]

 

As we all know, the courts are much more open to shared custody these days, and a man is very unlikely to not get shared custody, but a woman most generally will get the family home (the home in which the children have been living) and physical custody of the children, at least during the school year. With the father getting every other weekend and assorted holidays. I propose that that simply is insufficient for ME as a parent, and therefore I must find that it is equally insufficient for my sweetheart as a parent as well.

 

Of course there are exceptions to this (as I am one, at least legally), but as stated I believe this type of ,Mother with more custodial time, type of arrangement is most often the case in the United States.

 

Just a thought FA, if his youngest child(ren?) are older children/teenagers, don't they usually have a say in custodial arrangements, i.e. which parent they will spend the majority of their time with?

 

I see this all the time with some of my own teenager's friends who have divorced parents. These children (young adults, really) who are 14, 15, 16+ years old are making their own decisions about which parent they live with. It isn't like they are little kids and the courts are deciding this.

 

Just food for thought!

[IfWishesWereHorses]

FA,

 

I asked if she knew that part of their income was used to help you and buy gifts because that is part of her "knowing" the whole truth. And it would certainly matter to most women, IMO. You mentioned "other women" before he fell in love with you. Was he also being righteous and honorable then?

 

You keep saying how his wife knows and feels about things and that you know these things from "another" source. I can only think of one way to unequivicably "know" her stance and that would be to hear it from her. Do you read their corespondence? (and no need to answer ANY question of mine that you don't feel compelled to I have NEVER harrassed anyone for not answering personal questions)

 

Do you also know that she only expects this "illusion of family" to last until her child graduates or will she want to continue it for her grandchildren as well?

 

You keep refering to anytime they spend together or the time he spends there for his child as an illusion or that he is faking it. So that would imply that his heart is not even there for his child, if he must fake it. So, when he is gone off working or visiting his mistress, THEN are they are real family because all of the members present are genuinely there in heart and body?

 

The other question that I had was about the phone bill. Most places that require a person to travel extensively and be on call to go at the drop of a hat also offer business phones which have unlimited use. If that were the case, the wife would not have access to a phone bill.

 

FA, its your life to live as you wish, but your question is about righteousness. I can't believe and any man or woman who is having an affair while married is "doing right thing" or is exhibiting honorable behavior. I also do not believe that any man or woman having an affair with a MP is being honorable. That is MY opinion of YOUR question on this opinion board. I hope for your sake and mostly for the sake of you children that he doesn't play this out even longer, until the grandchildren are graduated too.

[Mimolicious]

"His time with his child is very limited at best now, and would be much more so were he not to live under the same roof, so that at least they have some down-time together occasionally." -FA

 

FA,

This confuses me. Not assuming anything, just curious. Does the time he spends with you take away the time he could be spending with his child?

I was just thinking about how most dads have a hard enough time spending time with their kids without also giving time to an OW. Maybe your situation is unique. I hope that's the case.

 

 

Isn't this the case with single parents as well? Thinking about it, if I go out on a date, it is time away from my kids, regardless. I could be home cleaning their closets while they are with my xH, In my case, I don't have set visitations. My xH lives a block away (I know ). My kids come and go as they please. I must admit, my xH drops a meeting with Obama if he has to, for his kids. It is hard to juggle being a parent and leading a R with someone other than the other parent due to many factors. Too many to mention...

 

I guess it all circles back to "doing the right thing".

 

 

You must have done a lot of reading in the past few days, to know my back story since you have only so very recently joined LS yet presume to know the "whole premise" of my relationship.

 

FA- you crack me up, but people can read the forums without having to join.

[Silly_Girl]

Isn't this the case with single parents as well? Thinking about it, if I go out on a date, it is time away from my kids, regardless. I could be home cleaning their closets while they are with my xH, In my case, I don't have set visitations. My xH lives a block away (I know ). My kids come and go as they please. I must admit, my xH drops a meeting with Obama if he has to, for his kids. It is hard to juggle being a parent and leading a R with someone other than the other parent due to many factors. Too many to mention...

 

I guess it all circles back to "doing the right thing".

 

 

 

 

FA- you crack me up, but people can read the forums without having to join.

 

It is the same as single parents. BUT single parents don't creep around for ever. There would most likely come a time (evidenced on the boards) when things would be considered serious enough to be able to spend quality time with the love of their life AND their child(ren). But perma-cheating MM make sure this will never be the case so they are always going to be giving up time with their children to cheat on their wives.

 

Regarding family time vs dating time; I get so many people telling me 'it's so easy to meet people'. Hell yeah. But I've already sacrificed a lot of my time with my son by having a career (first I had to have a job to pay the mortgage, it turned in to a career). I don't then free up time away from my lad to try and pick up guys like some women I know my age. The time will come (all too soon) when he won't care where the hell I am and will probably wish I WAS out dating a string of guys (I expect I'll be wishing that too, whilst I'm home alone with my Jilly Cooper and G&T, smelling of cat wee....)

[In_Repair]

I've never read any The OW to an open marriage is a different thing. If the wife knows all about you QUOTE]

 

-----------------------

 

IF the W knows about the OW - How does this constitute an "open marriage".. Humiliation for the W, perhaps - but now it's an open marriage??

 

Of course she is humiliated, but in her mind the greater humiliation would come from having her husband walk out on her and the children for another woman. She is running with her only option at this point. Let him stick around, probably hoping that the affair will run it's course, and keep her family as much intact as possible. She might know about FA, but I seriously doubt that she is okay with the whole situation. If she was, FA wouldn't be getting her info from "other sources".

 

It IS an open marriage at that point. She knows he is screwing another woman and she does nothing about it. A lot of open marriages are like this. They aren't the traditional swingers and wife swapper type open marriages, but it fits the definition.

[Mimolicious]

It is the same as single parents. BUT single parents don't creep around for ever. There would most likely come a time (evidenced on the boards) when things would be considered serious enough to be able to spend quality time with the love of their life AND their child(ren). But perma-cheating MM make sure this will never be the case so they are always going to be giving up time with their children to cheat on their wives.

 

Regarding family time vs dating time; I get so many people telling me 'it's so easy to meet people'. Hell yeah. But I've already sacrificed a lot of my time with my son by having a career (first I had to have a job to pay the mortgage, it turned in to a career). I don't then free up time away from my lad to try and pick up guys like some women I know my age. The time will come (all too soon) when he won't care where the hell I am and will probably wish I WAS out dating a string of guys (I expect I'll be wishing that too, whilst I'm home alone with my Jilly Cooper and G&T, smelling of cat wee....)

 

This is a mini t/j but also relates to "doing the right thing"- but on the parenting level.

 

It baffles me when people get involved in R's and clearly know that their children will never be part of it. My xH left his family for someone that WILL NEVER EVER EVER be allowed to come 100ft close to my kids. I have no idea how could anyone have a futuristic or realistic approach in such R.

Yeah, they have a blissful future! This scenario (may not be as drastic as mine because of the legal issues) plays out very often in A's where the MM leaves with the OW. It kinda dooms the chances of meshing kids and "new-not-so new" R together.

 

For all we know FA's sweetheart may be holding off to leave when the time is right, the time may come and he may leave. Does it mean that when the time comes (if ever) is it going to be peachy perfect and make it all right? What about if when that happens, collateral damage is the same as if he left from the get go?

 

Is doing the "right" thing going to give you the "right" results?

 

I may add- parents that drag their kids into every R they start, serious or not, get zippo respect from me. My kids are not meeting some duffus flavor-of-the month.

[bentnotbroken]

This is a mini t/j but also relates to "doing the right thing"- but on the parenting level.

 

It baffles me when people get involved in R's and clearly know that their children will never be part of it. My xH left his family for someone that WILL NEVER EVER EVER be allowed to come 100ft close to my kids. I have no idea how could anyone have a futuristic or realistic approach in such R.

Yeah, they have a blissful future! This scenario (may not be as drastic as mine because of the legal issues) plays out very often in A's where the MM leaves with the OW. It kinda dooms the chances of meshing kids and "new-not-so new" R together.

 

For all we know FA's sweetheart may be holding off to leave when the time is right, the time may come and he may leave. Does it mean that when the time comes (if ever) is it going to be peachy perfect and make it all right? What about if when that happens, collateral damage is the same as if he left from the get go?

 

Is doing the "right" thing going to give you the "right" results?

 

I may add- parents that drag their kids into every R they start, serious or not, get zippo respect from me. My kids are not meeting some duffus flavor-of-the month.

 

 

:lmao::lmao:Duffus flavor of the month:lmao::lmao:

[pureinheart]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses for not being honorable. I don't think honor is subjective. You honor your spouse by keeping your vows when you got married. The dishonor in cheating on your spouse shoudn't be compared to spewing words in a discussion forum. Hardly the same. I agree with you that just because someone does something dishonorable doesn't mean they are that way forever. As soon as they stop being dishonorable, they can choose to be honorable.

 

Well, honor is subjective, this thread proves it. I think we do dishonorable things all day long, and don't believe we flit back and forth from honor to dishonor. I believe it's the heart that is the defining factor.

[NoIDidn't]

FA,

 

I asked if she knew that part of their income was used to help you and buy gifts because that is part of her "knowing" the whole truth. And it would certainly matter to most women, IMO. You mentioned "other women" before he fell in love with you. Was he also being righteous and honorable then?

 

You keep saying how his wife knows and feels about things and that you know these things from "another" source. I can only think of one way to unequivicably "know" her stance and that would be to hear it from her. Do you read their corespondence? (and no need to answer ANY question of mine that you don't feel compelled to I have NEVER harrassed anyone for not answering personal questions)

 

Do you also know that she only expects this "illusion of family" to last until her child graduates or will she want to continue it for her grandchildren as well?

 

You keep refering to anytime they spend together or the time he spends there for his child as an illusion or that he is faking it. So that would imply that his heart is not even there for his child, if he must fake it. So, when he is gone off working or visiting his mistress, THEN are they are real family because all of the members present are genuinely there in heart and body?

 

The other question that I had was about the phone bill. Most places that require a person to travel extensively and be on call to go at the drop of a hat also offer business phones which have unlimited use. If that were the case, the wife would not have access to a phone bill.

 

FA, its your life to live as you wish, but your question is about righteousness. I can't believe and any man or woman who is having an affair while married is "doing right thing" or is exhibiting honorable behavior. I also do not believe that any man or woman having an affair with a MP is being honorable. That is MY opinion of YOUR question on this opinion board. I hope for your sake and mostly for the sake of you children that he doesn't play this out even longer, until the grandchildren are graduated too.

 

Agreed. I can't see how the W knows anything when FA hasn't heard any of this "knowledge" from her.

[califnan]

Agreed. I can't see how the W knows anything when FA hasn't heard any of this "knowledge" from her.

 

----------------------

 

And I haven't thought that the W's knowledge is a factor here, anyway.. Women suffer in silence all the time..

 

I noticed this a lot with the Kennedy women..

[Dexter Morgan]

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

because a married man sticking his member in another woman doesn't know the first thing about honor.

[donnamaybe]

Well, honor is subjective, this thread proves it. I think we do dishonorable things all day long, and don't believe we flit back and forth from honor to dishonor. I believe it's the heart that is the defining factor.

 

Well, sure, there are times that all of us will look back on something we did or said and think "WTF was I THINKING?!" However, do we strive to NOT behave or talk that way again? I would hope so.

 

For these people who carry on A's for years and years and years, the same is SO not true. This isn't a one time mistake but a way of life. A dishonorable way of life.

[bentnotbroken]

Well, sure, there are times that all of us will look back on something we did or said and think "WTF was I THINKING?!" However, do we strive to NOT behave or talk that way again? I would hope so.

 

For these people who carry on A's for years and years and years, the same is SO not true. This isn't a one time mistake but a way of life. A dishonorable way of life.

 

 

That's what I'm talking about. The way of life that leads to constant lies, deceit, omissions.

[alexandria35]

FA as someone else here stated, one doesn't have to post or be a member in order to read here. Many months ago a very good friend of mine discovered her spouse's affair and that is what led me here. I did a lot of reading in order to learn before I joined.

 

It's true that older children have a say in how visitation is going to go. Where I live, once a child reaches the age of 12 they can choose who they want to live with (provided both parents are deemed fit) and are free to visit the other parent as much as they want.

 

So yes, I have been following your story and I have noticed that parts of it make no sense. Such as your MM saying he can't be seperated from his child, but he already is seperated from him because he chose work that takes him away from home and he is busy in his affair with you. Hard to believe that his child is much of a priority to him at all when you look at his choices. He has had OW before you so he has been risking his relationship with his kid for a long time. Who does that with a relationship they deem valuable and important? Now all of a sudden this isn't even an affair so much as it is an open marriage of which you are a part of. However you must remain hidden because keeping up appearances is of utmost importance to the BW. You say you have verified the truth of this with outside sources. Well if keeping up appearances and being discreet is the reason behind the secrecy how is it that outside sources know what is going on? It's not much of a secret if other people know.

[NoIDidn't]

An affair is NEVER a "right" thing.

 

An "open marriage" without transparency between the adults involved may as well still be an affair.

 

I doubt the W knows a thing.

[herenow]

 

 

Or perhaps knowing his wife like he does he knows that were he to burst the bubble of the perception of "happy family" that is so valuable to her things would not be nearly so amicable as far as time she would allow with the child and his schedule (or lack thereof) is such that it would make adhereing to a rigid schedule of visitation next to impossible.

 

So this woman who has given so much of her life to protect her kids is going to make it difficult for them to see their father? FA, she is married to a man she knows is having an affair with you, yet she stays for the kids. His wife has given up years of her life for the sake of the kids, what makes you think her priorities will ever change? This isn't a mother who puts her own well-being above her kids. If he were to divorce her, if what you say is true, she will always do what is best for her children. A person like that does not keep a father from his kids because she is angry at him. IMO.

 

BTW, this whole idea that kids don't matter once they graduate high school is a bunch of bull. A family unit is forever. What make finishing high school the end game? Is gradation from college less of a milestone? How about when kids get married, have their own children, etc. Why does the family unit not matter after high school? Really, I want to know.

Edited August 4, 2010 by herenow

[NoIDidn't]

So this woman who has given so much of her life to protect her kids is going to make it difficult for them to see their father? FA, she is married to a man she knows is having an affair with you, yet she stays for the kids. His wife has given up years of her life for the sake of the kids, what makes you think her priorities will ever change? This isn't a mother who puts her own well-being above her kids. If he were to divorce her, if what you say is true, she will always do what is best for her children. A person like that does not keep a father from his kids because she is angry at him. IMO.

 

So true. How exactly does this MM "Burst the 'happy-family' bubble" if she already knows of the A? Doesn't make any logical sense.

 

BTW, this whole idea that kids don't matter once they graduate high school is a bunch of bull. A family unit is forever. What make finishing high school the end game? Is gradation from college less of a milestone? How about when kids get married, have their own children, etc. Why does parenting stop after high school? Really, I want to know.

 

Exactly, it'll become after the grandkids get married before you know it. And some people actually hang around for that, so beaten down by the idea that no one else will have them.

[donnamaybe]

He has had OW before you so he has been risking his relationship with his kid for a long time.

Oh, wow. Didn't know that. Sheds an even BRIGHTER light knowing this is a habit for him.

[herenow]

Oh, wow. Didn't know that. Sheds an even BRIGHTER light knowing this is a habit for him.

 

Yeah, I saw that. Makes me wonder what he told the others. I'm sure FA feels that she is "the one", but how did those others feel? Did he talk to them about their "future"? Maybe FA should be more concerned about his past OW's than how his wife deals with her H's infidelity. Just saying.

[torranceshipman]

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

It is clearly not considered honorable, because he has decided to stay for the kids, whilst having sex with another woman behind their mom's back. It is obvious that this isn't right. This seriously confuses you? A BS is staying because she/he is honoring the marriage vows, and trying their best to forgive, and to keep the family unit together. That action does come with honorable intentions. I can't see why the difference is hard for you to understand.

 

Anyway, the poster that you quoted was saying something really nice: that acting with honor when no-one is looking (and when it goes unnoticed) is the real test of character, because the person is doing what is right simply to be a good person, not because they want to look good in front of others. Your MM is lying and cheating to his W and his kids every single time he has sex with you, so clearly he is not acting with honor.

[Silly_Girl]

Wow. I must admit I am floored!!!

 

I saw this quote on another thread and rather that hijack that one figured I would start another to ask why this is true of a BS who is staying in her marriage despite the fact that she is aware of her WH's ongoing affair with a co-worker, but the reverse is not considered true for a WS who stays in their marriage in order to live up to the commitments they made? I am confused. :confused:

 

My sweetheart stays in his marriage because he feels he is obligated to see through the raising of all of his children. He is doing what he considers right and honorable by seeing through that commitment despite what he really wants to do. Why is that not also considered honorable?

 

FA - who do YOU believe your MM is truly doing right by, if anyone? His wife? Kids? You? Your kids? Himself?

[herenow]

FA - who do YOU believe your MM is truly doing right by, if anyone? His wife? Kids? You? Your kids? Himself?

 

Right! Especially ask yourself about his kids. I'm still confused about how raising children stops when they graduate high school. They may be of legal age at 18, but does that mean that MM will no longer raise his children at that point? How sad for the kids. Really sad. IMO, parenting is a life long joy and responsibility. Not a chore that ends after 18 years.

 

So, the last kid will graduate and daddy will leave to be with FA because the kids will no longer care about or need the family unit. Really? Makes no sense. Wouldn't it be easier, and more honorable, to leave now?

Edited August 4, 2010 by herenow