Call me crazy... or just plain dumb. Have I done too much damage?

[large.patricia]

Here's the deal.

 

My boyfriend and I have been together for 4.5 years now. We've been living together for 3.5 years.

 

When we moved in together we weren't looking to get married right away but were just happy being together. I was 21 and he was 23 at the time so it makes sense that we weren't looking to make the big leap. But things have changed. I'm ready to get married and start a family. I'll be turning 25 soon and he'll be 27. We're at an appropriate age to start down the path of marriage.

 

We have a great relationship. Sure, we have our moments but we only bicker in healthy ways and we never have "damaging" fights. We've always been respectuful and caring of eachother. I feel as though we've demonstrated the ability to compromise and deal with things in a healthy manner. We've talked about kids, what we want to do with our future. We've discussed money (he's horrible with it so I'll handle all the finances).

 

Here comes the part that's really got me down.

 

I want to get married and it doesn't seem as though he's willing. It's VERY confusing though. He says he wants to get married and he talks about it like "when we get married..." or "when we have kids..." but it doesn't seem like it will ever happen.

 

About 2.5 years ago we were seriously discussing marriage. I was very clear that it was something I wanted sooner than later. He expressed his need to be in a better position financially before we take that step. I gave him about 6 months and then asked him about his finances. He hadn't done anything about it, he actually got deeper in to debt. I sat down with him and had a discussion about how he can get out of debt. I helped him set out a plan to do this.

 

I was so hurt at this point that he hadn't made any sort of attempt to get out of debt. It made me feel like he obviously had no intention of marrying me if he wasn't going to take any action to get there. I ended up telling him that I would move out in a year if he didn't get his butt in gear and we get engaged. I look back on this part and cringe... I know I should have been more tactful with that and I deeply regret it. I feel as though I put a huge weight on our relationship. If I could take that part back I would.

 

I came to the point where I realised what I had done and decided to not bring up the marriage thing until "the year" was up. I went 6 months without saying a word about it. The year came around and still nothing. I found out he was STILL in the same amount of debt.

 

How crushing?

 

I ended up waiting until the end of the month before I did anything. We ended up sitting down and having another talk. I expressed how deeply I was hurt and that I couldn't stay in a relationship that wasn't going to move forward. I asked him if he was sure he wanted to be with me and if he didn't that he just needed to tell me. If he had doubts I wanted to know. There's a reason he hadn't done anything to propell our relationship forward. He ended up saying that he had been thinking about it and he doesn't know why... he just didn't have any answers. He ended up saying that we would get engaged by the summer time. I took that to mean but the end of summer... you know men lol. So, I decided to stick around...

 

Well Summer has come and it's almost gone. There's about 49 days left until the last day of summer and I have a really bad feeling that he hasn't even thought about asking me. (I haven't said a word since we had talked about it 6 months ago.) So, I'm not nagging him and I've always heard that if you're ready and you've been talking about it. Shut up for 3 months and if he doesn't ask he's probably not going to. (side note... he did pay off 1 credit card... it's progress but it's only a fraction of what he owes.)

 

Ugh... I know I sound like a fool. I just don't want to still be in this same spot 5 years from now thinking the same thing. I want to know if I need to move on. Don't get me wrong... I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him but if he's not willing to give me what I want then... I guess I don't know. I feel like I will wait around forever...

[truelovepro]

Well he is comfortable where he is now. If you want to strike a match in his ass plan a vacation for yourself and don't tell him about it, before you go on vacation tell him you need a break and your staying at a friends/ family house and you don't want to speak to him until he shows signs of getting his act together. Most likly if he really loves you this will get him motivated.

[aerogurl87]

OP he has problems with being financially responsible, do you really want to be married to someone like that? I mean you set out a plan and he didn't even attempt to follow through on it. Do you really want to spend your life with someone like that? Financial matters are one of the major causes of divorce.

[truelovepro]

Yes if you are shallow

[large.patricia]

aerogirl

His inability to handle finances is his flaw, it's my strong point. I don't mind having the job of financial manager in the relationship. I'm just not going to handle his until he makes the commitment of marriage to me. I will not act like his wife any more than I already do.

 

We already have been through really tough times where both of us had no money but we never fought about it. There was a point where he was paying bills late and not bothering to tell me. I ended up putting everything in my name (he's the co person) and now he just pays me. It fixed that problem. We never had any relationship ending fights we're pretty good at discussing things constructively and finding solutions.

 

We already discussed how we would handle the finances in marriage. I would get all the money, pay all the bills and he would get an allowance. Some splurges would be allowed but would have to be talked about first. He is fully aware of his inability to be financially responsible so he's willing to give up handling his own finances. The reason I won't take complete control right now is because I don't want to combine. If he can't comit with marriage I'm not going to act like his mom.

 

He wants to be able to support me all by himself which is completely unrealistic these days. I understand his frustration and why he didn't want to tell me about the late payments. I understand why he acts like that with finances. He's learning that he can't do that. I don't mind teaching him. I don't mind being the finance manager in the relationship. I just have a problem doing it while unmarried.

[xpaperxcutx]

I don't know, if I were a guy and had such a capable girlfriend, I don't think a little problem like being in debt would stop me from taking the plunge... so I question whether he just likes to use his financial burdens as an excuse to drag everything out....

 

However, at the same time, I feel like giving him an ultimatum such as the one you had ( 6 months, really?) just isn't the kind of push that will propel him positively in the right direction.

 

Does he even want to get married? Talking about kids and planning a family together hardly constitutes anything but wishful thinking if his actions does not comply with his wants.

 

That said, I do think his answer of a non- answer auto implies he does not want to get married. After all, if it's not a yes, then it's automatically a no, right?

[mattyb123]

To the OP-

 

If you are already cohabitating with a man, why do you feel the need to get married?

[Hot Carl]

Either you're crazy or you're just plain dumb.

[large.patricia]

I had asked for an update on his financial status about 6mo after we had sat down and discussed it. I wanted to see how he was doing, if he was making progress.

 

I'm not right on the dot with the timeline... There was some time after I had asked for an update before I decided to give him an ultimatum. I had done a lot of soul searching and talking to friends about it.

 

I came to the conclusion that I would give him a year. However, I do look back on it now and realize that I did it in a completely wrong way. I understand now that I was wrong to do that the way I did. I'm sort of glad he didn't ask me to marry him that year... I'm sure I would have held that burden of "was it him or was it my want that made him do it".

 

I was glad I didn't follow through with it after having the last talk we had. However, I'm sort of wondering if I should have left... He's the one that told me it would happen this summer and it hasn't... I didn't ask for him to set a timeline this last time. I asked him to show that he was working towards the goal of marriage. But since he had said Summer I'm REALLY thinking he's just stringing me along.

 

I'm not sure he quite realizes it though... But who knows...

 

I'm hesitant to have another talk with him until the Summer is actually over. I'm thinking I'm going to give it some more time. Afterall I don't want to push him in to something he doesn't want to do.

 

Sometimes I feel as though I'm being impatient but at others I feel as though he's being unreasonable. It's a bi polar feeling. I get really upset and want to cry and then I'm like I'm such a horrible person for wanting to get married...

[spookie]

Despite his insistence otherwise, he might not feel comfortable w/ you managing all the finances. Achieving fiscal responsibility before marriage is a reasonable goal for a person to have.

 

It just sounds like he's not ready yet. At 27, that's not unheard of. I don't think it necessarily speaks any large volumes about his love for you.

 

If I were you.... I would start treating this relationship more casually. I would move out, though not necessarily break up. Give each other some space to figure things out.

 

If he decides he is scared to lose you, that might propel him into action to get his s!ht together before proposing. If instead you find yourselves drifting apart... you'll have your answer.

[large.patricia]

matty b

 

I have ALWAYS held a very high regard for marriage. I believe that two people who love eachother should shout it to the rooftops and a wedding is the perfect way to do it.

 

The marriage certificate is not just a piece of paper to me. It's a vow to always be with eachother. It gives me and him rights as husband in wife in the event of something horrible.

 

I believe that marriage is the ultimate commitment.

 

I believe it's the step before children. I believe children need a home where the two parents are legally bound. (not saying marriage will automatically make a happy home for children)

 

I want to get married because I LOVE LOVE LOVE him and can't imagine myself with anyone else. And yes, a little selfish but I can't imagine with him being with anyone else. I'll do anything to keep a happy healthy relationship. I understand it's work and I'm ready and willing to fully commit myself and I want that in return.

[allina]

I think that you have been doing the right thing by expressing the importance of marriage then not talking about it for a few months. Daily nagging would be the worst thing to do in this situation.

 

Are you aware of exactly how much debt he is in? Is it possible that it's a lot worse than you think and he doesn't want you to find out or take your credit down with his?

 

If this man makes you feel valued, loved and respected in all ways except for the proposal, and he isn't hiding everything I would wait till a couple weeks after the end of summer then make my decision. Then decide if you can stay in this relationship without marriage or move out and move on.

[large.patricia]

Spookie

That's what I had planned on doing... just moving out and continuing the relationship. But then we'd be moving backwards... the last thing I want to do. I understand you're thought behind it but I think if I were at the point of actually moving out the relationship would be over... Would I be too hurt that he let me leave to take him back? That thought lingers in my head...

[large.patricia]

allina

I'm pretty sure I'm fully aware of his debt. When we had trouble with it before I made him show me his current bills. I'm sure he showed me all of them because I would notice a new credit card bill in the mail. I highly doubt at this point that he would so blatantly lie to me.

[spookie]

Spookie

That's what I had planned on doing... just moving out and continuing the relationship. But then we'd be moving backwards... the last thing I want to do. I understand you're thought behind it but I think if I were at the point of actually moving out the relationship would be over... Would I be too hurt that he let me leave to take him back? That thought lingers in my head...

 

It isn't that he let you leave, but if his options are let you move out, or get married when he's not ready, you can't blame him for picking the first.

 

I don't think he is going to willingly marry you until his finances are in order. "Don't worry, I'll take care of it if you just marry me," might seem like a feasible solution to you to get what you want, but don't you see how emasculating that is for him?

 

Cut him some slack... he paid off 1 card, that's a start. From one perspective, 27 is pushing 30, and he should know what he wants, but time also flies so fast, and it's just a couple years since college. It takes some people longer to grow up.

 

If you value this relationship and you do wind up moving out (which I think could prompt him to start getting his s!ht together so he can have you back 100%) please try to do so with the littlest amount of bitterness possible. Yes, he could have worked out his problems earlier, so you could be married faster, but give him a break. Just because marriage seems to be more important to you, doesn't mean he doesn't value your relationship. He just isn't ready yet. Hopefully, he gets there one day.

[BellaBellaBella]

Okay, I just don't see this the way everyone else does. If he had any other problem you would jump in and help him. How about simply saying, dude let's sit down every pay day and I will teach you to pay your bills.

 

Seems like you have the ability to help the guy, but don't want to unless he makes a vow, but you don't want to make a vow unless he straightens the mess out. That just seems to be self defeating.

 

JMO ask him if you can work togather and do this, on payday. Make a game plan, then if he doesn't ask... ditch him.

 

People get really defeated by money issues. They also fritter away money without thinking.

[large.patricia]

Bella

I don't have a problem marrying him with debt. It's him that has the problem. I've sat him down multiple times and gone over this making plans. I ask him if he's paid this and that. I ask him how he's doing with his finances. I tell him, if you don't have the money let me know and we'll figure it out. I've done everything short of baby sitting. I'm not about to be his mom and I'm not about to be a nag about it.

 

The only reason I brought that up is because it was his reason for not being ready.

[mattyb123]

matty b

 

I have ALWAYS held a very high regard for marriage. I believe that two people who love eachother should shout it to the rooftops and a wedding is the perfect way to do it.

 

 

Would you be satisfied with just getting you're license from a justice of peace?

 

And then maybe a small party with your close family and friends to celebrate your union?

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

I don't know your religious affiliations but if you view yourself as a christian, then bibically you are already married.

 

If you and your bf are having financial difficulties, then it would make sense to use this time to get yourselves debt free before you bring children into the picture.

 

Also, frankly if you were looking for an engagement ring plus a wedding ring, then that is just wasteful.

 

Personally, in this day and age, I would only get engaged and marry a woman who viewed sex as something that is meant for marriage only.

 

Otherwise if you were a chick that's cool with cohabitating and common law marriage, I would make a commitment to you, but I will not waste money on an engagement and wedding.

 

Those are my thoughts, your guy might mirror them, I don't know...just some food 4 thought.

[large.patricia]

I don't want to be married by a justice of the peace and have a small reception. We both don't want that. We have no reason to even have to do that money really is not an issue.

 

When we're married we can combine money. I have a really well paying job. I can pay off his debt with the click of the mouse. He knows this.

 

You might say "well then do it and there won't be an issue".

 

Well that does make an issue. I compromised my beliefs by moving in with him. Huge mistake. I realise that. I am no longer going to feed his ability to stay complacent by just letting him off the hook like that. At that point he could say "hey I decided we shouldn't get married". What happens then? I'm out thousands of dollars? Makes absolutely no sense. He has to make his commitment before I act as financial supporter.

 

I don't care if he proposes with a freaking cracker jack box ring. I'll buy my own wedding ring for all I care. He just has to come his share of the way. I've already came mine.

[torranceshipman]

matty b

 

I have ALWAYS held a very high regard for marriage. I believe that two people who love eachother should shout it to the rooftops and a wedding is the perfect way to do it.

 

The marriage certificate is not just a piece of paper to me. It's a vow to always be with eachother. It gives me and him rights as husband in wife in the event of something horrible.

 

I believe that marriage is the ultimate commitment.

 

I believe it's the step before children. I believe children need a home where the two parents are legally bound. (not saying marriage will automatically make a happy home for children)

 

I want to get married because I LOVE LOVE LOVE him and can't imagine myself with anyone else. And yes, a little selfish but I can't imagine with him being with anyone else. I'll do anything to keep a happy healthy relationship. I understand it's work and I'm ready and willing to fully commit myself and I want that in return.

 

I, I, I, I. That is all I am hearing! If I was your boyfriends age (and I am a girl!), this kind of pressure would have made me RUN for the hills. I am not saying you are wrong, and I really can understand how this is upsetting you, but take it from me, some people are just too young at 27. I mean, sitting him down to work out a debt plan, then regularly reviewing it and telling him off when he doesn't meet his objectives? What are you, his boss?

 

No, you are his girlfriend!! The poor guy is probably feeling half nagged to death. I'm not criticizing you, by the way, because you have to be true to yourself and your feelings, I am just telling you how I would feel by your actions, which is probably how your boyfriend is feeling. He is young, he wants to have fun, give him a break. Most guys I know (and my female friends in fact) didn't hit marriage until mid 30s, myself included, and it felt like 100% the right thing to wait. I can understand it feeling really normal for a guy to want to wait til far later than 27.

 

If that is too incompatible with your goals, then fair enough - you are entitled to be happy and to live the life that you want. It's just tough when 2 people are at different stages and one forces it. I also wouldn't recommend moving out as a means of pushing him. That might really feel so hurtful to him, like a big rejection, like he is being really punished for not doing what you want. That might really damage the R.

Edited August 5, 2010 by torranceshipman

[large.patricia]

"I, I, I, I. That is all I am hearing!"

 

??? You're way off base. People are asking me what I want and what I think. How do you expect me to answer? C'mon let's get real here.

 

"I mean, sitting him down to work out a debt plan, then regularly reviewing it and telling him off when he doesn't meet his objectives? What are you, his boss?"

 

I've never regularly "reviewed" it with him. And I have never "told him off" when he hasn't met his goals. His finances have NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE EXCEPT WHEN HE USES IT AS AN EXCUSE FOR MARRIAGE. You're putting actions and words in my mouth. When we discussed his finances I asked him if he wanted help. HE WANTED HELP. So, I helped him. We set out a plan. I don't "check up" on him. Like I said, I'll help him but I'm not his wife or mom. If you call asking him how he's doing and if he needs help every few months nagging then you must be married to a mute.

 

I understand some people want to wait until their older to get married and that's fine. BUT I am not one of those people. If it's not something my BF wants then I have the right to know. That's all I ask.

 

Yeah I'm using "I" because I am talking about myself. Maybe you address yourself as something else but when I'm discussing my situation I use 1st person english.

 

ATTENTION TO THOSE WHO WANT TO COMMENT - PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING FIRST.

 

For some reason everyone is thinking that I'm the one who wants him to get his finances in order before marriage. THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM. He is using his finances as a reason to not marry me. Money does not matter to me. We have already demonstrated to eachother that we can make it happily with NO money. We've had hard times. The only reason I was upset is that he used the "money" excuse to delay marriage and he told me he would work toward it. The problem is here he didn't do anything about it. I offered help and he did nothing with it. THAT is my problem. He clearly demonstrated that he was not working on HIS issue with getting married. It has nothing to do with the money itself. That is not the issue AT ALL. I'm not sure how else I can say it without people getting the point.

[Mary3]

" I am not ready to get married yet " Translation : " I am not ready to get married yet " .

[torranceshipman]

"I, I, I, I. That is all I am hearing!"

 

??? You're way off base. People are asking me what I want and what I think. How do you expect me to answer? C'mon let's get real here.

 

"I mean, sitting him down to work out a debt plan, then regularly reviewing it and telling him off when he doesn't meet his objectives? What are you, his boss?"

 

I've never regularly "reviewed" it with him. And I have never "told him off" when he hasn't met his goals. His finances have NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE EXCEPT WHEN HE USES IT AS AN EXCUSE FOR MARRIAGE. You're putting actions and words in my mouth. When we discussed his finances I asked him if he wanted help. HE WANTED HELP. So, I helped him. We set out a plan. I don't "check up" on him. Like I said, I'll help him but I'm not his wife or mom. If you call asking him how he's doing and if he needs help every few months nagging then you must be married to a mute.

 

I understand some people want to wait until their older to get married and that's fine. BUT I am not one of those people. If it's not something my BF wants then I have the right to know. That's all I ask.

 

Yeah I'm using "I" because I am talking about myself. Maybe you address yourself as something else but when I'm discussing my situation I use 1st person english.

 

ATTENTION TO THOSE WHO WANT TO COMMENT - PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING FIRST.

 

For some reason everyone is thinking that I'm the one who wants him to get his finances in order before marriage. THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM. He is using his finances as a reason to not marry me. Money does not matter to me. We have already demonstrated to eachother that we can make it happily with NO money. We've had hard times. The only reason I was upset is that he used the "money" excuse to delay marriage and he told me he would work toward it. The problem is here he didn't do anything about it. I offered help and he did nothing with it. THAT is my problem. He clearly demonstrated that he was not working on HIS issue with getting married. It has nothing to do with the money itself. That is not the issue AT ALL. I'm not sure how else I can say it without people getting the point.

 

Whoa there, I was just trying to help-no need to get on the attack. I agree that sometimes it is tough to hear other people's points of view, especially if they aren't telling you exactly what you want to hear, but sometimes it is a good thing to hear those kinds of views.

 

Also giving posters shouty instructions in bolded text isn't nice!

 

Your boyfriend doesn't WANT to pay off his bills, and he doesn't WANT to get married. He has told you this many times via his actions/words, so maybe it is time for you to step back and accept that you can't force him to do something he doesn't want to do.

 

Oh...and yea, we get the point about him using money as an excuse, but it is pretty obvious that it is just that, an excuse to delay the idea of M 'until my finances are sorted'. This means he (in his mind) is off the hook as long as he can keep showing you debt. He doesn't want to pay off his debt because then you will expect him to marry, and he doesn't want to.

Edited August 5, 2010 by torranceshipman

[Mary3]

He feels the pressure. You won't get blood out of that turnip...

[O'Malley]

You won't get blood out of that turnip...

 

Lol...

 

The only reason I was upset is that he used the "money" excuse to delay marriage and he told me he would work toward it. The problem is here he didn't do anything about it. I offered help and he did nothing with it. THAT is my problem. He clearly demonstrated that he was not working on HIS issue with getting married.

 

It's a not an uncommon occurrence -- a long term relationship where a person who initially discussed marriage has now decided that they are content with things at present, and have no desire to change the status quo.

 

Your feelings aren't wrong but there is no way to dislodge him from this comfort zone with pleas, promises of financial aid, threats, ultimatums. He knows what you want and he's more than aware that he no longer wants the same thing -- but he will not tell you that because he's afraid or your reaction.

 

What is more important to you -- a relationship with this particular man that will never involve marriage, or having a relationship with someone else who desires marriage? If it's the latter, then you give yourself an internal deadline -- move out, find your own place, and if he is still unwilling to broach the subject of marriage at the end of that timeline, you absolutely walk away from this relationship.

Edited August 5, 2010 by O'Malley