Been Reading, Now Wondering

[PhiloDog]

I've come across this site multiple times through searches in an attempt to see what I'm dealing with. I though I'd see what people on her thought about my situation.

 

I married my best friend and we have been together for 6 years. I love her very much, but I've put her through a bit of turmoil throughout our relationship. About a year ago, she said she doesn't have feelings for me anymore. This has been a result of some porn issues, which have been resolved for 1.5 years, but she says she can't let it go even though I have ceased and she knows I have. I also have had some mood swing issues in the past that have been a lot better in the past 3 or so months because I finally realized how badly they affected her. (I came from an emotionally abusive family, where this was acceptable.)

 

I found out, by accident (shared computer) that she was talking to her sister about this, which is fine, but she was also telling her sister she likes the way certain men look at her. This got me suspicious, so I looked at her journal, which expressed a lot of bad emotions toward me as well as statements that she doesn't trust herself around certain men she works with. She found this out, we talked about how it was an invasion of her privacy and that it violated her trust even more.

 

We spend all our time together (we are great friends), but 2 weeks ago, she said she wanted to go to the mall out of the blue and didn't want me to go with her. This got me a little suspicious, so I did what I promised I wouldn't do and looked at her journal again, which detailed emails from men that are after her and that she meets them when I am at work and that she is, again, afraid of having sex with them because she feels nothing for me and just wants to feel something.

 

She told me last week she wants a divorce because she tried having feelings for me and she can't. She says she feels dead inside. We haven't had a good sex life in a long time because she just isn't comfortable with me anymore. She said she doesn't want to go to counseling because she would have to tell someone about all the crap I did to her (porn/putting up emotional walls/etc.). She told me I should start seeing a psychologist to deal with some of my childhood emotional issues, but she said she is unwilling to wait for me to get better.

 

What's really confusing me, however, is that she says she still considers me a good friend and would like to hang out once I move out-playing video games/etc. The day after she told me she wanted a divorce, she asked if I wanted to go gallavanting around town with her--I did, but cried most of the time. She even said she wants to help me move. She has been out of town with family, but has consistently called me/emailed me every day, sometimes multiple times a day.

 

I acknowledge that I've screwed this marriage up, but why is she willing to spend time with me as a friend, but not try to work on a marriage where we spend every extra moment together? Should I refuse to spend time with her anymore? I still have feelings for her and I think being a friend to her will just drain me. She says she hates men and doesn't want to have anything to do with them--yet, she wants to hang out with me--the cause of all her grief.

 

Any suggestions?

[spriggig]

You can't save this, you'll probably make it worse by trying. Let her go now before she cheats on you and makes this ten times harder for both of you. She's almost certainly lying through her teeth to you about how far gone it all is--meaning it's much worse than you think.

 

When I say "now" I mean now. She's right on the verge of cheating and you don't want that for either of you. Trust me.

 

Run. Don't look back.

[cookie2]

Sorry to say, yes your marriage is over. If she's at the stage where she doesn't even want to bother working on it, she's gone.

 

You should cut your losses now and get out. Don't be friends with her. Speak to her only as necessary to sort out the divorce, then never speak to her again. No good will come of it.

[PhiloDog]

Thanks for the replies-I know at heart it is over because she doesn't want to work on things, but sometimes I have to be reminded.

So do you think her acting like and stating she wants to be friends is just a way for her to feel better about the whole ordeal?

[cookie2]

Yes, she wants to feel better and maybe wants to keep you around for emotional support etc. But, that is not what's best for you.

[tnttim]

Thanks for the replies-I know at heart it is over because she doesn't want to work on things, but sometimes I have to be reminded.

 

You shouldn't have to work on a relationship, relationships are supposed to be fun and exciting. That's why she has no feelings for you right now, she's bored, or just fed up. The other men offer her something exciting and different.

 

I never would say it's over, no relationship is unrepairable. But, and this is a huge but, you have to move on right now whether you want her back or not.

 

If you want her back you have to be independent, if you want to leave you have to be independent. As you can see, either way, you have to be on your own right now.

 

Read the 180 post right now, and follow it, because it works wonders. You will honestly see how easy life can be if you let it be easy.

 

So do you think her acting like and stating she wants to be friends is just a way for her to feel better about the whole ordeal?

 

Of course, but who cares, wouldn't you do the same thing. She feels guilty, and she doesn't want to hurt you.

Edited August 3, 2010 by tnttim

[Chrome Barracuda]

I would have her served at work, appraise the house, inform the kids, expose her cheating and Start dating other women with the pretense that it's over.

 

Her choosing you over her new ways are in her court. but you moving on is something you need to do for yourself.

 

Why allow a woman to treat you like dirt, it's time to man up, your wife is now your enemy of your marriage, she should be the one to leave, said marriage.

 

What's next she becomes pregnant and has you pay for some other dude's child??? F that!!!

 

Know your rights man. Get a lawyer. Start preparing for a future without her, All this friends crap? is just a fantasy inform her you WILL NOT be friends. EVER if she continues down this road. Give her a choice. She had the chance to stop cheating when she was busted, but she didnt right?

 

So you know what needs to be done. Mid life crisis or not. She's not the same woman you know. Prepare yourself for the inevitable...

[You Go Girl]

As a woman who has been in her shoes, I know how she feels. You repeatedly broke her trust, and she may be at that point where she no longer can bear the throught of you breaking it again. Her self-preservation insincts are now more important than you. You repeatedly lied and continued to do what you wanted to do, now you are suffering the consequences.

More than likely her desire to be friends is a combination of weaning and honest friendship. There may though be some hope left because she wants to be around you at all.

She's toying with these men, or testing the waters one toe immersed only. She certainly doesn't trust them either.

As for friendship--your call. Do what's best for you. She likes you, but she can't handle the emotional weight of being your wife.

[PhiloDog]

Thanks "You Go Girl." I understand I'm only reaping what I have sowed and I appreciate your sentiment because the substance of what you said is essentially what she has told me before--I just want to make sure I'm in tune with her, at least as friends, if I can handle it.

 

I'm swinging between denial and acceptance. When I'm accepting that I have to move on, I'm fine with the whole friendship thing because, as I said, we have consitently done everything together for the duration of our marriage. I think part of this is fear, but part because I know I can always talk to her about things I would never tell anyone else. When I'm in denial, however, I feel like there's still hope-which wouldn't be a good thing if we continue a friendship. I told her about this and she said she'd put the ball in my court and if I ever started wanting to be intimate with her, then I should tell her that I want some time alone so that I'm not just making myself miserable.

 

At any rate, Thanks to everyone for listening--I'm sure most of you know how much better one feels when you get this stuff out of your mind so you can forget about it for a few minutes. I've told everyone I know about this because (1) I want her to know I take her serious and (2) It's surprising how beneficial insights people have on this.

 

As far as the whole 180 thing--I've read some stuff on it (afterall what else am I going to do when I'm not sleeping), and I've started a list of rules for myself:

 

1. Only check email 1 time per hour at most (I can't be sitting there waiting for her next email for the rest of my life).

 

2. Only be on the internet 1/2 hour at home unless it's for work (endlessly searching for answers in the vast wasteland of internet isn't going to help)

 

3. Only respond to her emails/phone calls, but NO initiation of contact unless an emergency.

 

4. Never talk about the past with her unless she volunteers.

 

5. Never talk about the future unless she volunteers (my future is my business now)

 

6. Never ask if she wants to go do something

 

7. Never offer to do things I normally do for her (i.e. running to store/etc.) unless it's an emergency.

[You Go Girl]

I think checking your email twice a day is sufficient, unless you have pressing work contacts through email. Checking once an hour for an email from her is far too much.

Never initiating doing something together is strange. But I think part of that is that you need some distance between a marriage and a friendship. A few months off may wean you from that type of feeling. Then you might feel comfortable enough to initiate something, that is, assuming you want the friendship too. The initiating doing something together should be a natural thing, not always her, not always you. If the right social event comes along, go ahead and ask her. If it's been a longer gap in seeing each other than you want, go ahead and ask. Why should she be in control of that?

I really think you need a few months between a marriage and a friendship to adjust. I don't know your details, but this probably holds true for most.

You may even find that a friendship won't work for you because your feelings are too strong, or you may find that it gets easier over time.

Assess the friendship just like any other. What are the benefits, and would you choose this person for a friend had she never been anything else to you?

[PhiloDog]

Okay, well I didn't contact her at all yesterday and I was planning on doing that today. She emailed me out of the blue asking: "Do you resent me yet?"

 

I responded that I didn't asked her if I was supposed to. I also said that I probably never would because I have always thought she was my soulmate, as I told her when we were in the early years.

 

She replied that she thought at some point I would get mad at her or start resenting her. I told her I'm not angry because I can't control her heart. I said I'm still sad, but that doesn't mean I have to be angry--that won't do us either any good.

 

I suppose she's just trying to ease her conscience about the whole deal, but why would she care if she really doesn't have any feelings for me anymore (as I indicated above) and that she can't trust me. Now I'm confused again I guess. Is she fishing to see if I am angry and would interpret that as caring?

[spriggig]

Okay, well I didn't contact her at all yesterday and I was planning on doing that today. She emailed me out of the blue asking: "Do you resent me yet?"

 

I responded that I didn't asked her if I was supposed to. I also said that I probably never would because I have always thought she was my soulmate, as I told her when we were in the early years.

 

She replied that she thought at some point I would get mad at her or start resenting her. I told her I'm not angry because I can't control her heart. I said I'm still sad, but that doesn't mean I have to be angry--that won't do us either any good.

 

I suppose she's just trying to ease her conscience about the whole deal, but why would she care if she really doesn't have any feelings for me anymore (as I indicated above) and that she can't trust me. Now I'm confused again I guess. Is she fishing to see if I am angry and would interpret that as caring?

 

 

OK, this reminded me of a different thread. I suggest you read Samantha's thread. It's long but worth reading:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t207391/

[Chrome Barracuda]

No reason to ponder, this woman pulled your heart out, can you be friends with a woman like that???

 

Because a friendship to her could be allievating her guilt, when a woman who betrays a man and then becomes friends with them, She may think he was cool with it.

 

Why give her friendship? You aint got no kids, find someone else. screw her.

 

No CONTACT!!!

[New_Life08]

I would give anything if a man could step inside of a woman and feel what she feels when his sexual energy is spent on other women (and of course vice-versa). Whether it is porn, excessive ogling, or an emotional affair; it is the worst betrayal. It is belittling and violates a sacred place.

 

I am not trying to go Ms. Drama on you, it is simply the truth. The feeling inside is no more or less damaging than having a physical affair. The only difference is the uncertainty. The porn etc.. is dragged out ..sucking trust, intimacy, and finally love from you little by little. At least a full blown affair can be isolated and dealt with.

 

Your wife has no trust left to give. It went too far and she probably feels numb and just wants to be left alone. If this is ever going to work in your favor...you need to leave her alone intimately. She needs to see you as a healthy person who can control unhealthy impulses and focus on the bigger picture. Even if you do not win her back, it may be the only way to have a decent relationship with anyone.

 

All my best to you...

[karnak]

What's really confusing me, however, is that she says she still considers me a good friend and would like to hang out once I move out-playing video games/etc. The day after she told me she wanted a divorce, she asked if I wanted to go gallavanting around town with her--I did, but cried most of the time. She even said she wants to help me move. She has been out of town with family, but has consistently called me/emailed me every day, sometimes multiple times a day.

 

 

The way I see it, if she really wants to remain friends with you it's because she really has no real emotional (passionate) feelings for you anymore. Women are different than men in that respect. We have no problem in staying in contact with EX's. Women (being more dependent on emotions than men) can't keep an "healthy/distant/safe" relationship with a man when they still have feelings for him).

 

You should back away for some time, to see how things evolve and to see how she reacts to that.

 

Sorry if my comment is of no help to you. Just wanted to give my opinion.

[PhiloDog]

Thanks Karnak--good insight. I think you're right because she has said the primary reason she has no problem being friends, but doesn't want to stay married is that she has no obligation to care like a wife as friends, but if we stay married, she gets depressed because she feels like she has to care/have feelings about me.

[PhiloDog]

Well, I felt like crap today because I always looked forward to hanging out with my wife all weekend--I have always only wanted to be with her and I really haven't been away from her for more than 2 or so days. She's went to her family and it has been a week now. I felt so bad, I just needed to talk to her so I emailed her today. I broke my rule.

 

I told her how I was feeling and apologized for throwing it on her. She responded and said she didn't mind and that she was going through stuff too. I told her that I felt broken and lonely and she said she knows what I'm going through because she has been this way for a long time. She said I can email her all I want to talk about things, but she doesn't want me calling her because she has been going through a lot as well.

 

She said she's just better emotionally, and mentally without me.

 

I am going to try--I'm not going to push, but I am going to keep telling her how I feel. I want her to be happy, but I still have hope and I still believe we were meant to be together. I'm not so selfish as to try to persuade her or try to manipulate her into staying, but I have to tell her how I feel and that I don't want this because I think we can work things out, even though she says she no longer has feelings for me. It has to be possible she could get back in touch with those feelings she had once before.

 

I have to keep trying to talk to her openly because if I don't and things don't work out, I am going to be worse off in the end. I'd rather feel bad and be a failure for trying than feeling bad knowing I could have opened up more. I have to feel like I tried everything to deal with this--not just ignore and play some 180 game.

 

People act like the whole divorce thing is no big deal--people at work know and they act like I just have to move on. I have no pride at this point--I don't need to act like I have a better life without her because I know I won't. I don't care about anything but her. I really don't. I've been praying nonstop for us. I accept that if God wants her to be on her own, she will, but I want it to come from God.

[You Go Girl]

The way I see it, if she really wants to remain friends with you it's because she really has no real emotional (passionate) feelings for you anymore. Women are different than men in that respect. We have no problem in staying in contact with EX's. Women (being more dependent on emotions than men) can't keep an "healthy/distant/safe" relationship with a man when they still have feelings for him).

 

You should back away for some time, to see how things evolve and to see how she reacts to that.

 

Sorry if my comment is of no help to you. Just wanted to give my opinion.

 

Humph. Not true. Women being more dependent on emotions, so can't keep in contact? Hardly.

The OP's wife is feeling the usual when rejecting a man as husband material. She still cares for him, loves him, but won't let him touch that part of her heart. She is able to separate the romantic love from the caring love.

[PhiloDog]

I think Karnak was equating passion with emotion. I know she has no more passion for me. That's fine at this point because I'll take her caring love. I love her and as I relayed in my earlier post, I'm not giving up on her.

 

We just were emailing back and forth (we are better at writing) and neither of us has bitterness toward each other. That counts for something in my book. I'm not gullible, I know our marriage is toast, but like I said, I'd rather have her as a friend than nothing at all, which is what she was prior to the marriage.

[Chrome Barracuda]

wtf r u smoking? PD? So when she starts dating and have a serious boyfriend are you gonna be the ear she leans on when she tells you how she loves screwing him?

 

Damn why are you emasculating yourself

 

YOU DESERVE MORE THAN WHAT SHE'S GIVING YOU!!!

 

let her go!!!

 

You CAN find someone else. Latching onto a woman who only sees you as a brother when she married you is kind of pathetic!!!

 

Where's your anger, cause all I'm seeing is despair and self doubt and pity!!!

 

Pick yourself up and be happy! Happy with the fact your still alive, happy knowing the problem, probably isnt you. But dont ever be restrained trying to be some friend with some ditzy bitch!

 

WTF are YOU getting out of being friends with her? it's kind of pathetic you ask me.

[PhiloDog]

I didn't ask you anything there Chrome Barracuda because you're an idiot filled with hate. Do you think hating someone is really going to help you move on with your life?

 

As I said in my original post, we were best friends before we got married and so returning to that is fine with me if it makes her happy. I'm not so selfish that I'm going to act like I have to have her my way after I betrayed her trust for so many times. I am lucky she still wants to be my friend.

 

If she finds someone else, I'll deal with that when it comes, but I can either be bitter and without her friendship or I can still enjoy the things I like doing with her as a friend. I'm choosing the latter because I still have hope and I'd rather haver her in my life than not. I made a commitment to her, and despite my failings in the marriage, I will keep it either as a spouse or a friend. It's not pathetic to still share most of the stuff I enjoyed about our relationship without the issues that go along with a marriage. To me, I'm getting the best of what I thought our marriage was. I just screwed things up to where she lost the passion.

Edited August 7, 2010 by PhiloDog

[Chrome Barracuda]

LOL@ idiot filled with hate. better than being a doormat eh!

 

(be respectful and dont call me names!!!)

 

I never said hate her, i said hate her for what she's done. You say it started out as friendship. hmmm but again what are you truly getting out of it!!!

 

Secondly, She's gonna get tired of being your friend with you constantly up under her, she wants you gone, period! Commitment? what commitment, that's over dude. And it' is pathetic to share anything with a woman who cannot be and will not be intimate with you. It's like your holding yourself back from moving on and becoming someone better than what you was. No matter your failings in the marriage, right now. Self respect for yourself should be paramount.

 

Are you gonna be up under her azz forever being the gay male friend while she screws other guys, because she will and your gonna sit there and pine like some retard? WTF kind of man does that!

 

I'll let you in, i was like you when i was young so in love with this chick, and she always had me in the friendzone. it wasnt until i got pissed of years of years of being told no. I went and started screwing other females and realized i am WORTH more than what she says!!!

 

How long are you gonna let this happen??? It's your choice. I am not an idiot. realist. yes. idiot never.

[PhiloDog]

Yeah Chrome I guess you're right. I just don't know anymore. I swing from wanting to have some part of her in my life to absolutely despising her for not including me on her feelings all these years. She's told me that she hasn't loved me for 4 years. Why the crap has she drug me along like this. Also, I was thinking today that she said we'd work on things six months ago and then she pops this divorce, you move out crap.

 

Back on the 180 for me. I'll count Friday as a moment of weakness. I know I'm not perfect in this relationship, but neither is she and she could have at least had the common decency to give me some sort of heads up.

[You Go Girl]

I don't care about anything but her.

 

 

" I know I'm not perfect in this relationship, but neither is she and she could have at least had the common decency to give me some sort of heads up. "

 

Where was the first quote when you were hiding and lying about porn?

 

On the second quote, I bet she feels the same way referring back to when you were lying.

 

You don't have to answer to me about the above question. I'm nobody. Just answer honestly to yourself. Answer to me if you want to continue discussing that in how it pertains to your growth.

[PhiloDog]

Okay, well she came back from her parents' house and she said she missed me and I said the same. She said she thinks we'll be very close friends when this is all through. We're still living in the same house because I'm waiting on bar exam results before I move out. We sleep in the same bed, but don't touch. This is a really weird situation.

 

We've been shopping for stuff for my new place and she started to say something I picked up was too expensive and that it would be better to buy this other item, like she always has, but corrected herself after she realized she was trying to tell me what to do. This also happened in a couple other situations--where she started telling me x was better to do, then realized he doesn't have that right anymore. She also tried to start an argument yesterday and I just let things go. I've pretty much have acted like I don't really care anymore because I guess I don't--I've been broken by this whole ordeal.

 

She acts like we're still married, except for sex--she asks what I want to do each night and we go to sleep at the same time. She asks if I want to go get some food from somewhere, etc. She has her own car, so it's not a dependability issue. It's just weird because I would think she'd want nothing to do with me after she says I have been emotionally abusive. We went to church last night and I noticed she kept looking at me during praise and worship and was crying a little.

 

What the heck is going on here? I think part of her feels guilty for wanting other men. She's 30, but she seems like she's going through some sort of midlife crisis. She's lost a lot (120 or so lbs) of weight and is infatuated with working out and buying new clothes. She says she doesn't know who she is anymore and just wants time on her own, yet when she gets back, it's like we're still married, just not having sex and we've spent all our time together as usual.

 

i'm going a little crazy here.