Islam & women's hair

[Disillusioned]

In Islamic societies which require women to cover their hair (not their heads, but the hair attached thereto---Puritan women in the Colonies wore those folded bonnets for the same reason, to keep from making men horny), why can't they just chuck the veils and shave their heads bald like Buddhist nuns do? Ain't nuthin' wrong with women being bald headed in public...

[taiko]

Its in the hadiths that it is wrong for women to have short hair. First because you donlt look Muslim and secondly because it is seen as trying to imitate a man. The Muslims scholars probably first got the ideal from Dueteronmy 22:5 as Islam accepts Old Testament prophecies as true and from the one true God, Allah as they see it.

[TaraMaiden]

In Islamic societies which require women to cover their hair (not their heads, but the hair attached thereto---Puritan women in the Colonies wore those folded bonnets for the same reason, to keep from making men horny), why can't they just chuck the veils and shave their heads bald like Buddhist nuns do? Ain't nuthin' wrong with women being bald headed in public...

 

 

No Islamic society requires a woman to cover her hair.

There is nothing in the Qu'ran that states this must be so.

Women are required to cover their hair, heads, and faces by the more extreme and insistent domination of the menfolk in the societies they live in.

 

Puritan women may have covered their hair as a sign of modesty, but it was also extremely practical, as loose hair swings everywhere, gets filthy, sweaty and is unhygienic.

 

As a girl, in a single-sex boarding school, I wore a cotton bonnet in class. We all did.

Do you know that we never had any incidents of head-lice at all?

 

Not all Buddhist nuns shave their heads, as do not all Buddhist monks.

And even if they do, it's not for the sexually arousing aspect, at all.

 

I hate to say it, but you're posting from a very ignorant standpoint.

 

Please do some research before making such ridiculous statements.

[Rashad]

No Islamic society requires a woman to cover her hair.

There is nothing in the Qu'ran that states this must be so.

Women are required to cover their hair, heads, and faces by the more extreme and insistent domination of the menfolk in the societies they live in.

 

Puritan women may have covered their hair as a sign of modesty, but it was also extremely practical, as loose hair swings everywhere, gets filthy, sweaty and is unhygienic.

 

As a girl, in a single-sex boarding school, I wore a cotton bonnet in class. We all did.

Do you know that we never had any incidents of head-lice at all?

 

Not all Buddhist nuns shave their heads, as do not all Buddhist monks.

And even if they do, it's not for the sexually arousing aspect, at all.

 

I hate to say it, but you're posting from a very ignorant standpoint.

 

Please do some research before making such ridiculous statements.

 

There is...

Surah Al-Nur Verse 31

And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms, and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to God together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful.

[The Collector]

There is...

and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments.

 

 

Does that mean 'and no jiggling and wiggling either!'

[GorillaTheater]

Does that mean 'and no jiggling and wiggling either!'

 

And people say there's nothing sinister about Islam ...

 

Moslems and Southern Baptists. Peas in a pod.

[TaraMaiden]

There is...

Surah Al-Nur Verse 31

And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms, and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to God together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful.

 

Ok... So I take it the Imam who told me that this is cultural convention, not religious instruction or command, was incorrect then?

 

He made the point that the Qu'ran had been added to over the centuries, and what came later over-rode the former scripture. And often, the former scripture was more lenient, compassionate, loving and tolerant, whilst later additions grew more restrictive, fanatical, aggressive and intolerant.... he maintained that anything alluding to the subjugation of women, was a later addition....

This from a prominent Imam in Southall, London. One of the biggest communities of Muslims in the UK.

 

I promise you.

 

I believed him.

[Disillusioned]

Moslems and Southern Baptists. Peas in a pod.

 

No kidding... the Hanbali sect is more or less Islam's equivalent of the Southern Baptists. They don't like nuthin'. But don't tell my Baptist aunt about the similarities... in her personal theology, only Christians will get into Heaven to enjoy all the booze and broads, but all the rest will roast in peace. Hallucinogens told her so.

[skydiveaddict]

When I was in Iraq, most all the women had their heads covered, but in Afghanistan, some did, some didn't. I don't know why

[taiko]

When I was in Iraq, most all the women had their heads covered, but in Afghanistan, some did, some didn't. I don't know why

People were exercising their new freedom with the Taliban being run off. While in Iraq it was more of an option in the first place and not forced upon the people by religious police.

[skydiveaddict]

People were exercising their new freedom with the Taliban being run off. While in Iraq it was more of an option in the first place and not forced upon the people by religious police.

 

 

I bet you're right. I was stationed at a combat outpost near the Pakistani border. The talis attacked almost everyday, and in the nearby villages there the women always had their heads covered. But in the interior, where the talis had been run off not so much.

[Rashad]

Ok... So I take it the Imam who told me that this is cultural convention, not religious instruction or command, was incorrect then?

 

He made the point that the Qu'ran had been added to over the centuries, and what came later over-rode the former scripture. And often, the former scripture was more lenient, compassionate, loving and tolerant, whilst later additions grew more restrictive, fanatical, aggressive and intolerant.... he maintained that anything alluding to the subjugation of women, was a later addition....

This from a prominent Imam in Southall, London. One of the biggest communities of Muslims in the UK.

 

I promise you.

 

I believed him.

 

It has been added to, not over the centuries though but rather during the prophets time, in the sense that some verses were replaced and others were over-rode. The best example of this is the prohibition of alcohol, it came in three stages, sort of a gradual thingy.

 

first verse concerning intoxication. 02:219

They ask you concerning intoxication and gambling, say "in both there is great sin and benefits to mankind, but the sin of them is graver than their benefit" and they ask you "what should we spend (in charity)" say "what ever can be spared" (the same word also means forgiveness)" Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses that you may ponder.

Here general information about intoxication was given without prohibiting it, Muslims were still drinking after this verse.

 

Second Verse concerning intoxication. 04:43

O, you who believe do not go about performing prayers while you are in a drunken state (wait until you sober up) that you may know what you are saying (in your prayers)....

Here Muslims were prohibited to pray while drunk... they still continued to drink for it was not prohibited.

 

Third verse concerning intoxication. 05:90-91

O, you who believe indeed intoxication and gamblingand idolatrous practices and the divining of the future are but loathsome evils of Satan's doing. SHUN them then that you may attain success.

Truly Satan wants to raise enmity and hatred among you by intoxication and gambling and he desires to keep you away from Allah's remembrance and from prayer. Will you then desist?

Finally intoxication was prohibited. And if you think of it drinking and gambling are clingy habits and can be addictive sometimes and that is why they were gradually prohibited it's not like Allah first allowed them and then he changed his mind.

 

That's how the Quran has been ADDED to. And like I said all additions were during the prophet's lifetime.

[Disillusioned]

I bet you're right. I was stationed at a combat outpost near the Pakistani border. The talis attacked almost everyday, and in the nearby villages there the women always had their heads covered. But in the interior, where the talis had been run off not so much.

 

But none were bald, right?

[skydiveaddict]

But none were bald, right?

 

 

None that I noticed.

[Disillusioned]

None that I noticed.

 

Darn. Looks like they need to be turned on to Sinead O'Connor.

[Rashad]

And people say there's nothing sinister about Islam ...

 

Moslems and Southern Baptists. Peas in a pod.

There is something sinister about asking a woman to cover her body??

Go through this forum and read the threads. If women dressed properly half of these problems would disappear, the other half is on men to respect themselves. Would you hit on a girl that's covered up? would you worry about your pretty sexy wife if she was covered up?

[D-Lish]

There is...

Surah Al-Nur Verse 31

And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms, and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to God together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful.

 

Wow, can't wait to import/invite this cultural viewpoint into my society.

 

... oh wait, it's already here- it's allowed under the religious freedom act. Marvelous.

Edited September 6, 2010 by D-Lish

[taiko]

Ok... So I take it the Imam who told me that this is cultural convention, not religious instruction or command, was incorrect then?

 

He made the point that the Qu'ran had been added to over the centuries, and what came later over-rode the former scripture. And often, the former scripture was more lenient, compassionate, loving and tolerant, whilst later additions grew more restrictive, fanatical, aggressive and intolerant.... he maintained that anything alluding to the subjugation of women, was a later addition....

This from a prominent Imam in Southall, London. One of the biggest communities of Muslims in the UK.

 

I promise you.

 

I believed him.

 

His is just one more opinion. Catholics are lucky in that they believe God supernaturally made their leader correct when he tells you about a faith, With everybody else i know of it is comes down to what that individual believes.

 

The question becomes what happens when a community's leadership think they are doing God's will. Does it really matter what a leader in another community thinks God's real will is.

 

Men believing they are enforcing God's will gave a condemned woman 99 lashes before her pot Ramadan stoning because a British newspaper published a picture of a women with her hair exposed and identified the picture as being the prisoner.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100906/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_stoning

 

By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer Nasser Karimi, Associated Press Writer – 18 mins ago

TEHRAN, Iran – The lawyer for an Iranian woman sentenced to be stoned on an adultery conviction said Monday that he and her children are worried the delayed execution could be carried out soon with the end of a moratorium on death sentences for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

In an unusual turn in the case, the lawyer also confirmed that Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani was lashed 99 times last week in a separate punishment meted out because a British newspaper ran a picture of an unveiled woman mistakenly identified as her. Under Iran's clerical rule, women must cover their hair in public.

With the end of Ramadan this week, the mother of two could be executed "any moment," said her lawyer, Javid Houtan Kian.

The sentence was put on hold in July after an international outcry over the brutality of the punishment, and it is now being reviewed by Iran's supreme court.

[Disillusioned]

Catholics are lucky in that they believe God supernaturally made their leader correct when he tells you about a faith, With everybody else i know of it is comes down to what that individual believes.

 

Which is precisely why my buddy converted from Catholicism to neo-paganism.

[TaraMaiden]

....And why I am Buddhist.

[Nikki Sahagin]

There is something sinister about asking a woman to cover her body??

Go through this forum and read the threads. If women dressed properly half of these problems would disappear, the other half is on men to respect themselves. Would you hit on a girl that's covered up? would you worry about your pretty sexy wife if she was covered up?

 

Yes, because a woman's body is not the property of a man, it belongs to herself. Expecting a woman to cover up is an invasion of her freedom in regards to her own body. Especially as I do not personally believe that asking women to cover up is primarily about her protection or safety. Women can dress conservatively and demurely without being covered. It is more about control and asserting authority over another persons bodily rights.

[Rashad]

Yes, because a woman's body is not the property of a man, it belongs to herself. Expecting a woman to cover up is an invasion of her freedom in regards to her own body. Especially as I do not personally believe that asking women to cover up is primarily about her protection or safety. Women can dress conservatively and demurely without being covered. It is more about control and asserting authority over another persons bodily rights.

My lungs are my sole property but if I smoke in public I will affect other people... similarly, a woman's body is hers but when revealed it affects men and women around her... Its not just about men. If women dressed properly other women would not be obsessed with their body image, they will not starve themselves, and constantly worry about their sizes. Nowadays women feel like they have to look like models, be skinny, tall and all. The more women reveal of themselves the more of an object they become, the more men will focus on their physique.

[Rashad]

Men believing they are enforcing God's will gave a condemned woman 99 lashes before her pot Ramadan stoning because a British newspaper published a picture of a women with her hair exposed and identified the picture as being the prisoner.

 

There is a difference between a country's religion and a country's political policy.

Same goes for Saudi Arabia, they do not allow women to drive while back in the Prophet's time women were riding horses. Politics is politics.

[The Collector]

Judaism & women's hair

 

Fundamentalist (Hasidic) Jews require women to SHAVE THEIR HEADS AND WEAR A WIG INSTEAD. It's an outrage, something must be done etc...

 

And this just in - Fundamentalist Christians (The Amish) don't allow their womenfolk to use Facebook! We need to invade their land and liberate these poor little ladies!

 

And other fundamentalist Christians (Catholics) say you can do WHATEVER YOU WANT INCLUDING CHILD-ABUSE and as long as you say sorry on your deathbed you will get into Heaven, unlike anyone that isn't Catholic who will burn in Hell even if they are just a child when they die.

[taiko]

When any social system, like religion, reaches critical mass its adherants will force the politicians to enforce their will. If enough people submit and opposition is not allowed to meet then the true face of a belief will be seen.