Your thoughts on pre-nups?

[califnan]

I can see it both ways, but if I were getting married and he asked for one I think I'd be upset anyway. The idea of him thinking it necessary to protect his assets would make me feel he's uncertain about our future. But I do see people taken to the cleaners when going through divorce. I dunno. Your thoughts?

 

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Hello CUd ..

 

I think prenups are a must in marriages after the first M .. where partners come into the M with assets .. Even if assets are equal, there should still be a prenup..

 

Also, I think children of prior marriages should be protected at all costs..

 

Now I know that one of the reasons why women marry in the latter years is to be taken care of .. But the heck with living trusts in the little woman's name. What has she done to earn it ..

 

Offspring should be the first priority, when making a will - after the first M .. And this is a good way of testing the woman's 'love' as well.

[Lauriebell82]

I can see it both ways, but if I were getting married and he asked for one I think I'd be upset anyway. The idea of him thinking it necessary to protect his assets would make me feel he's uncertain about our future. But I do see people taken to the cleaners when going through divorce. I dunno. Your thoughts?

 

I would be upset as well. More hurt then anything else. While I can see how they are useful, I just don't think I could bring myself to sign one. It would hurt too much.

 

That being said however, I realize some people are not trustworthy AT ALL and have no problems screwing their spouse over. I would think it would be possible however to spot these qualities in a partner prior to saying "I do."

[ComeUndone]

I would be upset as well. More hurt then anything else. While I can see how they are useful, I just don't think I could bring myself to sign one. It would hurt too much.

 

That being said however, I realize some people are not trustworthy AT ALL and have no problems screwing their spouse over. I would think it would be possible however to spot these qualities in a partner prior to saying "I do."

 

Yeah but you'd be amazed how people going through divorce seem to be completely different people than when they got married. Divorce brings out the worst in people and screwing over the other actually becomes a goal for some going through it... oh the horror stories I have heard.

[Woggle]

Also when a woman is in the mindset that her husband is to blame for all her unhappiness there is nothing she will not do to destroy him. A prenup is protection against that.

[Lauriebell82]

Yeah but you'd be amazed how people going through divorce seem to be completely different people than when they got married. Divorce brings out the worst in people and screwing over the other actually becomes a goal for some going through it... oh the horror stories I have heard.

 

Yeah, you have a point there. That's very sad IMO.

[Mary3]

Yeah but you'd be amazed how people going through divorce seem to be completely different people than when they got married. Divorce brings out the worst in people and screwing over the other actually becomes a goal for some going through it... oh the horror stories I have heard.

 

I can attest to the fact that the Spouse that does not want to get divorced , that things get very UGLY.

 

From suicide threats to physical assault , threats to drain the account , I could go on for a week.....

 

Divorce is so ugly I don't think I ever want to be married again. I will do the mock ceremony instead.

 

I didn't say never ....so who knows ....maybe when I am old and gray someone will come along....

[Mary3]

Also when a woman is in the mindset that her husband is to blame for all her unhappiness there is nothing she will not do to destroy him. A prenup is protection against that.

 

Yes Woggle, she should tie him to a pole and burn him alive....

 

Now back to reality...

 

Men can be even MORE nasty than women, like hold you hostage in a room for hours threatening to kill you if you decide you want out...Make your life a living miserable HELL....

 

I am so happy I am single

[Tayla]

Well, I didn't want to step on 2sure's post by answering for her, but I think she was referring to the difference between a PREnup and a POSTnup. Here is an article that explains the difference. At the bottom of that page is also a link on how to break a prenup, but I haven't read it.

 

Thanks jthorne, Article aided in validating that the PRE NUP, which is what this forum thread is about , holds true..., THe difference as the article stated is the place of enforcement (states,countries etc). So I do know see the grey area.

Bottom line- Still PRO Pre Nup!

[amerikajin]

I'm indifferent to them. My partner has brought it up and it doesn't offend me, but I don't necessarily care one way or the other.

[maybebaby]

my fiance is a legal aid attorney and we are not going to do a pre-nup. We have talked about it and before we met we both thought that they were probably the way to go. Since we met we have decided for many reasons not to go ahead with one for the following reasons...

 

1: Why bet against the marriage, I know that isn't what a pre-nup is doing but neither of us would get married if we didn't really and firmly believe that we would always, through whatever work it takes, find a way to make it work work.

 

2: He comes into the marriage with slightly more assets, though not much more, we both work our asses off at work and at home. We share all the work loads and responsibilities, I am going back to school and because of his choosen line of work I could, easily, make more than him in 5 years but he will have been working just as hard and always sharing equally with me. In the end we share everything 50/50 and that is how we would divide it if we needed to, allowing for the others circumstance but also assuming that everyday we both share the burdens. We don't have his and hers anymore we have ours and we both agree that is how it works now.

 

3: We both already went through one divorce, having both gotten married very young, and both divorces went smoothly and were handled with care and kindness. (I KNOW someone is going to say that because second marriages are more likely to fail that this isn't a good argument but that's ok.) Both marriages ended in part due to infidelity by the other partner and still ended without the drama and hurtfulness often associated with divorce. In my divorce I willingly gave up more than I needed to because I didn't want to be dependent on my x for anything and we divided all of our assets equally because that was fair. In his divorce she had helped payed off some of his student loan debt so he actually offered alimony to help put her through grad school, they divided everything in a way that took care of them where they were. We both believe that based on what we have seen of the others behaviors in a bad situation that the other is responsible and caring even during a divorce and neither of us feels the other would behave in a selfish way.

 

4: Once again, as number one said I wouldn't marry him if I didn't think that this was a commitment we would always keep. I know this man, I know his faults and his strengths and I trust him to always have my back even when we're angry with one another. We're socialists, we believe in equality, we aren't going to start playing selfish games now at this point in our lives.

 

To each his own, I can very clearly understand the desire for a pre-nup I have long considered them to be common sense in most situations. I also understand the distaste for preparing for a divorce before a wedding even takes place. I think it's dependent on situations, people, and motivations. I don't think you should be hurt by the suggestion but I see how you could be. I guess in the end I have nothing really helpful to say except for that I understand your hesitation but I wouldn't assume he isn't sure about you, maybe he also wants to protect you with a pre-nup to ensure you have resources should you realize later he isn't the one for you. Just a thought.

[Lady vs Panda]

I don't particularly think I will ever get married. If I do, I will probably ask him to sign a prenup. But yes, that is partially because I don't have any real confidence in happily ever after.

[Mr White]

I think if one or both of the two in a couple has already achieved many assets before they got together, a prenup just makes sense. Its really no different than making a will.

 

BUT, if neither have much going into the marriage, and one is still insisting there be a prenup involved - it is good sign that they're too suspicious and have an over blown sense of importance about themselves and their (sweater, record, action figure, or comic book collection) to be a good candidate for marriage.

 

This is generally true, but even in cases of limited assets a prenup can make sense, e.g. by specifying that some assets will remain "separate property" after the marriage (most commonly, contributions to retirement accounts)

[caramel c]

No way. Planning a wedding and a divorce at the same time does not appeal to me at all. If I felt like I needed one, or he needed one, I would not marry him, or wouldn't get married at all. Those vows are to be taken seriously.

[Tayla]

Okay let me make a slight analogy here:

 

an anti pre nup person is someone who doesnt wear a seatbelt because "gosh ,it has brakes in the car and an air bag. I will be safe!"

Disillusioned that outside matters cannot possibly break up the happy couple.

 

A Pro Nup person realizes the brakes can go out, the road can be slippery and the air bags still hurt ya when they expand, yet still buckle up and enjoy the ride with wisdom to know they own the car and that outside forces can impact their life. Nothing wrong in being safe in lifes travels...

[carhill]

If executed properly and maintained to statute, if the divorce is contested, a pre-nup *can* provide additional information for the trial judge to consider if the parties cannot come to terms on their own, using the pre-nup as guidance to resolution. IME, anything is still *possible*, but the contract is one piece of the *total* package of interpreting the intent of the parties who entered into the marriage. It carries weight with the court.

 

Now, when stbx and I pull together the MSA in a couple of days, it will essentially provide the court with a similar, though far from the same, advice on our agreement regarding the intent of the parties. Such an arrangement is not possible in a contested divorce, unless both parties change their position of contesting. Its very purpose, as a 'marital settlement agreement', cannot happen if there is no agreement.

 

My prior answer was kind of flippant, so I figured the subject deserved a more serious one. BTW, for further reading, here's a relevant thread on this same subject.

[Green]

my fiance is a legal aid attorney and we are not going to do a pre-nup. We have talked about it and before we met we both thought that they were probably the way to go. Since we met we have decided for many reasons not to go ahead with one for the following reasons...

 

Your husband should know better.

 

1: Why bet against the marriage, I know that isn't what a pre-nup is doing but neither of us would get married if we didn't really and firmly believe that we would always, through whatever work it takes, find a way to make it work work.

 

You say why bet against the marriage, yet in the same sentence you aknowledge you know thats not what a prenup is.

 

Then in the next sentance you revert back to the mistaken belief that other people who got divorces didn't have the exact same thoughts of you.

 

I think of a prenup as dealing with the legal side of mariage and making things clear as to control the situation as much as posible instead of leaving it all to chance and lawyer fees.

 

I also believe that people who get prenups are more likely to stay married then silly people who have romantic notions about the legalities of mariage.

 

2: He comes into the marriage with slightly more assets, though not much more, we both work our asses off at work and at home. We share all the work loads and responsibilities, I am going back to school and because of his choosen line of work I could, easily, make more than him in 5 years but he will have been working just as hard and always sharing equally with me. In the end we share everything 50/50 and that is how we would divide it if we needed to, allowing for the others circumstance but also assuming that everyday we both share the burdens. We don't have his and hers anymore we have ours and we both agree that is how it works now.

 

Interesting how your romantic notions about how the law works have jepordized just what you want the law to do for you... keep things fair... 50/50.

 

The thing is the law often doesn't keep things fair... not to mention the 50/50 you will be splitting with lawyers if you do get a divorce. So the fact that you even contemplate divorce and HOPE for 50/50 when you could try to gaurantee 50/50 makes no sense to me.

 

You do realize there are things that are considered marital property and things that are not considered marital property. Only the marital property will be divided and in the end you might end up with something that looks nothing like 50/50. Something that is quite unfair to one person or both.

 

Mariage is a religiouse ceremony, but it is also a legal contact. Divorce is breaking that contract... and you guys will be completely different people if it comes to that point.

 

A prenup pays a little bit of money in the front end to make a plan that really protects BOTH of you in the back end.

 

This special degree you are getting could be considered marital property (depending on what state your in) in the end since you are getting it durring the marriage... that would mean maybe you would owe him alimony for life. He had his degree coming into the mariage...

 

3: We both already went through one divorce, having both gotten married very young, and both divorces went smoothly and were handled with care and kindness. (I KNOW someone is going to say that because second marriages are more likely to fail that this isn't a good argument but that's ok.) Both marriages ended in part due to infidelity by the other partner and still ended without the drama and hurtfulness often associated with divorce. In my divorce I willingly gave up more than I needed to because I didn't want to be dependent on my x for anything and we divided all of our assets equally because that was fair. In his divorce she had helped payed off some of his student loan debt so he actually offered alimony to help put her through grad school, they divided everything in a way that took care of them where they were. We both believe that based on what we have seen of the others behaviors in a bad situation that the other is responsible and caring even during a divorce and neither of us feels the other would behave in a selfish way.

 

Well you were younger then. There was less money involved. And no kids involved. (not that you can prenup away child suport) but you can put things in writing to be reflected upon.

 

I just think you are being so silly. You have both been divorced before and had NO PRENUP. So look at it as ironic that when you get a prenup you DON'T DIVORCE. (but we both know it could always happen) in fact Doesn't one divorce make a person more likely to divorce again. (I thought I heard that some where who knows) you get point though

 

4: Once again, as number one said I wouldn't marry him if I didn't think that this was a commitment we would always keep. I know this man, I know his faults and his strengths and I trust him to always have my back even when we're angry with one another. We're socialists, we believe in equality, we aren't going to start playing selfish games now at this point in our lives.

 

Ok, so why did you both already get divorced once. Don't just laugh it off as being young. You obviously learn nothing. I say you'd be less likely to get divorced if you didn't have this terrible attitude of yours.

 

To each his own, I can very clearly understand the desire for a pre-nup I have long considered them to be common sense in most situations. I also understand the distaste for preparing for a divorce before a wedding even takes place. I think it's dependent on situations, people, and motivations. I don't think you should be hurt by the suggestion but I see how you could be. I guess in the end I have nothing really helpful to say except for that I understand your hesitation but I wouldn't assume he isn't sure about you, maybe he also wants to protect you with a pre-nup to ensure you have resources should you realize later he isn't the one for you. Just a thought.

 

You need to think more. See a real Family Law lawyer to educate you on prenups...

[caramel c]

Okay let me make a slight analogy here:

 

an anti pre nup person is someone who doesnt wear a seatbelt because "gosh ,it has brakes in the car and an air bag. I will be safe!"

Disillusioned that outside matters cannot possibly break up the happy couple.

 

A Pro Nup person realizes the brakes can go out, the road can be slippery and the air bags still hurt ya when they expand, yet still buckle up and enjoy the ride with wisdom to know they own the car and that outside forces can impact their life. Nothing wrong in being safe in lifes travels...

 

Comparing vows of marriage to brakes on a car? Ya, no.

[Present Value]

Comparing vows of marriage to brakes on a car? Ya, no.

 

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of an analogy.

[caramel c]

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of an analogy.

 

Perhaps. Do you care to enlighten me?

[caramel c]

I get it, totally. The comparison wasn't comparing the vows to the brakes but rather comparing the pre-nup to the wearing of a seat belt. Although you expect everything to be fine, sometimes s--t happens, so be prepared just in case.

 

I see. The assumption is that when sh*t happens, divorce happens. No wonder why so many people support prenups. One foot is already out the door.

 

Sad, but true.

[caramel c]

You know, some people believe in pre-nups, others do not. All you have to do is weigh in with your belief and why. No need to slam others who don't have your point of view.

 

What if you got married to who you thought was THE most wonderful guy in the world, and found out later you were completely duped? Does the name Philip Markoff ring a bell? Would you stay married to a serial killer? Or to a guy who, as it turns out, has a cocaine habit or a gambling habit he hid from you VERY well and he's ruining not only his OWN finances but yours as well, taking you AND your kids down with him? What if he refuses to address his problems? Still gonna stick it out until you're all in a homeless shelter?

 

SOME "s--t" you just can't hang around for.

 

Oh my. I didn't mean to upset you. Clearly we have different views. Just sharing. Thank you for sharing yours.

[caramel c]

I'm not upset and I haven't a clue where you got that idea.

 

You just seemed to display a very rigid attitude, alluding to the idea that anyone who chooses a prenup will divorce at the drop of a hat. It seemed - well - not very nice.

 

As for my examples, would you stay married in those situations?

 

You seemed very much so in your post.

 

Anyhow, no I do not believe that ANYONE who chooses a prenup will divorce at the drop of a hat. However, it is planning a divorce before the marriage takes place, which is a demonstration of doubt, or lack of faith. That, is not my idea of a secure state of mind while standing on the altar to take vows.

 

As far as your questions, they are irrelevant. Whether or not I stayed married in any of those situations has nothing to do with whether I would get a prenup in the first place. I would not get a prenup.

[caramel c]

And you are certainly welcome to live your life as you choose. AND no one should ridicule you for your choices just as no one else should be ridiculed for theirs.

 

It's not "planning a divorce." It's merely planning. End of story. If there's no divorce, the pre-nup is moot. It's only when there is a divorce that a person would be VERY happy to have one in place, as I was.

 

He was going to take half of my retirement fund. Put the "ixnay" on that little idea.

 

See, I DO consider it divorce planning. Divorce pre-planning, if you will.

 

We are very different! Good luck.

[carhill]

Now that women are increasingly and widely achieving high net worths and salary levels, I'm curious about the reverse dynamic, where the woman brings to the marriage substantial assets relevant to the man. In our case, my net worth was ~20 times stbx's when we got married (without a pre-nup) and I viewed her as being secure financially (assets, income, net worth) for her circumstance. If a woman were to find herself in a similar circumstance, with the genders reversed, one, would she even consider the man to be marital material and, two, would she seek to preserve by legal means that life work she had achieved on her own? Imagine two people in their 40's or 50's, say with a couple of adult children between them.

 

So far, my experiences with established women are that they don't consider men 'beneath' them financially as appropriate for serious relationships, but I've only been dating a short while. I'm fairly certain that's an anomaly. So, if true and if she wants a prenup, I'll be happy to negotiate one which puts a smile on her face

[caramel c]

Or perhaps we are just different ages. I'd lived and learned by the time I got married. One of the things I learned is that some people are VERY good at hiding their true persona - sometimes for YEARS.

 

Good luck indeed! I hope you get your ever-after some day.

 

Thank you! Actually I'm 32 lol, never been engaged or married and engagement is finally on the horizon! I have been very cautious in settling down, I admit. But I think that's a good thing.