Genuine Classy Lady or a Retired Jump Off?

[marsle85]

Undoubtedly, there are risks that extend beyond STD's in concern to promiscuous people. It's likely those that pursue an extreme number of sexual partners are mentally and/or emotionally unstable or unpredictable. However, I look forward to sharing a relationship with someone who is physically, emotionally and mentally comfortable, nor withdrawn. Before I want this man to share himself with me, I want him to know himself. In my opinion, a healthy exploration of dating partners, hobbies, friends, jobs, whatever -- is necessary... and goes hand in hand with sexual partners. Anything in great abundance can be detrimental, but should this man be able to show reasonable restraint (in all areas of life), and fulfills himself (and me)-- I have little problem with his past. I view this individual less as a Ken Barbie doll, who merely exists to fit my life, but a person who has been molded and shaped (into someone I care about) thanks to his past. Likewise, I expect him to display the same understanding nature. I am not limited to traditions, social restrictions or gender rules... because really, if a person is with you solely for those reasons, they're not with you for you anyway.

[InceptorsRule]

Guess that'd make em all whores then.

 

You don't know the half of it.

[stillafool]

Have been through this before, will do so again. There is very little comparison between how the average man seeks and obtains sex and how the average woman does so. Women have almost complete control over when and with whom they have sex. Men have very little control over which of their advances result in sex and which will be rejected.

 

How a man seeks and obtains sex is like a legally blind man walking into the woods hunting with a shotgun, shooting at noises. He better keep shooting in hopes of hitting -something-. Sometimes he gets lucky and hits lots of critters in a row, sometimes he doesn't hit anything for days. If he stops shooting though, he will definitely starve.

 

How a woman seeks and obtains sex is like someone in a restaurant who is given a choice of a whole table of dishes set before them. They don't know whether the next dish will be unappealing to them, or whether it will be the best dish ever, before they taste the dish. There will always be something to eat though, it just may or may not be a favorite. If this person eats literally every dish set before them, they are a glutton, and gluttony translates into lots of other areas of life.

 

Men who take advantage of eating everything they manage to shoot blind are keeping fed because they never know for certain where their next meal is coming from. Women who eat every dish they can are gluttons because despite knowing they will always have plenty to eat, they eat everything that is set before them anyway. That's the difference, and it's an elementary and very distinct one.

 

There is no comparison between how average women and men seek and obtain sex, so arguments that go down the "well he did it too" path are without any rational foundation.

 

 

So Meerkat to sum it all up you are basically saying women shouldn't have as much sex as men because it is too easy for them to obtain it, correct? That the playing ground is not equal. Even if this were true, how do extremely sexual women contain their hormones? Are they suppose to just wait around for a husband before they satisfy their desires? Would a man? It is not a woman's fault that sex may be easier to get than it would be for a man. Her desire is still there and to be honest it isn't that hard for men to obtain sex either in this day and age. Also just because it is easier for women to get sex it doesn't mean that they will get the one they want. It really does work both ways when both men and women are trying to sex the one they want.

[sally4sara]

more words

 

This subject is concerning adult dating. You find adults males dating 14 year old girls acceptable. I'm not comfortable with the concept of someone who thinks that is acceptable offering advise on adult dating.

 

Normally I'd not bother refuting the input of others, even if they advise, as you do, that it is acceptable to date children. But since you seek with every post you make to invalidate the input of an entire gender, you don't deserve this consideration. Telling me to go back to the kiddie table is a laugh - you've already shown you'd be there of your choosing to seek a companion.

 

For you, your jaded mind and clear bias, the connection between finding it acceptable for adult males to date children and your inability to respect the input given by women is closely linked. We talk a lot on here about words matching up with actions. You should look to what drives your advise because it smells a lot like a bitter want for revenge. And that won't help anyone.

 

It matters not at all if getting sex is harder for men making it more acceptable to some that they run around acting like bonobos. That is all circumstantial. You sucked at it but not all men have your experience (or lack there of). What does matter is what is factual. Men spread more STDs. They cannot be tested for all STDs. It would make more sense for them to be less promiscuous. They also cannot choose to abort or adopt out an unplanned child, so it would make more sense for them to be less promiscuous, feast or famine aside.

Women spread less STDs and they can choose to have a child or not if they wind up pregnant. These are facts. So they have less reason to avoid being promiscuous than men, feast or famine.

 

Your view is a circle of causation. Men can't get sex as easily but women can so that makes promiscuity wrong for women? Wouldn't the limits men face be because women choose to not have sex with them whenever pressed for it? which is the way you seem to think women SHOULD be. But if they did cough up the sex with more ease, then men would have sex as easily as women. Are we really suppose to believe this double standard would disappear if men got sex every time they wanted it? BS! this double standard has nothing to do with ease of access. It is a matter of property to the men who hold this view. They want to take all they can get, but what they get they want to be theirs ALONE. And that can't happen in their mind with a woman that treats sex the same way they do because they know they're all just Annie Ado copies and can't say no.

[meerkat stew]

So Meerkat to sum it all up you are basically saying women shouldn't have as much sex as men because it is too easy for them to obtain it, correct?

 

No, no... it's puzzling to me how any reader could derive the above from what I have posted. I can't state my position more clearly, in any more simple, direct language, than I have already. But here goes:

 

Average men have little control over which of their attempts to obtain sex will actually result in sex. Average women have such a vastly higher degree of control over which of their attempts to obtain sex will actually result in sex that comparing the genders in this way as apples and apples, she-s__ts and he-s__ts is absurd.

 

It is possible for a man to find himself with the same level of control that the average woman possesses with respect to having sex. Books by Wilt Chamberlain and Geraldo Rivera come to mind to illustrate this "celebrity" effect. In that tiny percentage of the male population, there is no difference between men and women as far as obtaining sex goes. There are indeed he-s__ts, just not very many.

 

Incidentally, personally, as already posted, a woman's number in and of itself is of no concern to me. I have never asked, and never will. They always seem to bring it up though.

 

What I have found, through much harsh experience gained over 30 years, is that women who are compulsive, promiscuous and demonstrate lack of self-control in their sexual habits are much more likely to be compulsive and lacking of self-control in other ways also, spending and debt, drinking and drug use, risk-seeking, cheating, lying, health risks and STDs, and those "other ways," not the mere fact of their promiscuity, end up being the actual deal-killers. Would imagine the same applies to those few Wilt Chamberlain types of men, but have never dated a man, promiscuous or otherwise, so have no experience to compare.

[donnamaybe]

No, no... it's puzzling to me how any reader could derive the above from what I have posted. I can't state my position more clearly, in any more simple, direct language, than I have already. But here goes:

 

Average men have little control over which of their attempts to obtain sex will actually result in sex. Average women have such a vastly higher degree of control over which of their attempts to obtain sex will actually result in sex that comparing the genders in this way as apples and apples, she-s__ts and he-s__ts is absurd.

 

It is possible for a man to find himself with the same level of control that the average woman possesses with respect to having sex. Books by Wilt Chamberlain and Geraldo Rivera come to mind to illustrate this "celebrity" effect. In that tiny percentage of the male population, there is no difference between men and women as far as obtaining sex goes. There are indeed he-s__ts, just not very many.

 

Incidentally, personally, as already posted, a woman's number in and of itself is of no concern to me. I have never asked, and never will. They always seem to bring it up though.

 

What I have found, through much harsh experience gained over 30 years, is that women who are compulsive, promiscuous and demonstrate lack of self-control in their sexual habits are much more likely to be compulsive and lacking of self-control in other ways also, spending and debt, drinking and drug use, risk-seeking, cheating, lying, health risks and STDs, and those "other ways," not the mere fact of their promiscuity, end up being the actual deal-killers. Would imagine the same applies to those few Wilt Chamberlain types of men, but have never dated a man, promiscuous or otherwise, so have no experience to compare.

So, in this long, convoluted post, what you're saying is even though a man may display just as much compulsive and promiscuous behavior and a total lack of self-control, they just aren't as successful at satisfying it as women. Therefore, we should feel sorry for 'em and NOT call 'em sluts but denegrate women?

[meerkat stew]

This subject is concerning adult dating. You find adults males dating 14 year old girls acceptable. I'm not comfortable with the concept of someone who thinks that is acceptable offering advise on adult dating.

 

Interesting that in your thoroughly strained and laughable attempt to streettttccch the topic of an unrelated thread into this one that you don't list the age of the male in question (18), and instead characterize him merely as "an adult."

 

I find nothing inherently wrong in an 18 y.o. kid dating a 14 y.o. kid. I did it at 18, as did a majority of my friends. It is done every day in every neighborhood everywhere, whether you like it or not. What's sad is that adults have been so conditioned by a "child protective" farce of a culture, and so controlled by their own dirty minds, that they can't conceive of the possibility that a date is just a date for lots of young people, but must necessarily involve the shadow of statutory rape, pedophilia or some other perversion. That's -your- problem showing, not the kids'. There is no law anywhere in the U.S. preventing an 18 y.o. from taking a 14 y.o. to the mall, for a hamburger or to a movie. It's solely a matter between the kids and their parents. Don't like that? Stage a march on your legislature and watch as you get laughed back under your rock.

 

How bout not wasting space in this thread with any more of this inane, rather obsessive problem you have with me concerning another unrelated thread. Necro up that thread if you want to further beat a dead horse, don't do it here.

[meerkat stew]

So, in this long, convoluted post,

 

12 whole lines of long, convoluted post

 

Stopped reading your reply right there, no idea what it said after and don't intend to reread it. Past the daily quota on femme-troll LS hijinks today, thanks just the same.

[Woggle]

This thread is another example of men somehow being wrong for protecting ourselves. We all know that certain types of women make better partners and are more faithful and honest yet we are wrong if those are the type of women we think men should go for.

[brainygirl]

This thread is another example of men somehow being wrong for protecting ourselves. We all know that certain types of women make better partners and are more faithful and honest yet we are wrong if those are the type of women we think men should go for.

 

No, its wrong to pursue a woman when you've already decided that she isn't the long term mate type, but you waste her time and play with her emotions because she's willing to sleep with you.

 

If you don't date girls who are sexually loose or what ever, fine, but don't say "I'll date them but only when no one is looking" that's where I have the problem.

 

That, and I don't consider my past anyone's business but mine and if my unwillingness to detail every sexual partner for you to decide if I'm good enough is a deal breaker, then you're an idiot.

[Woggle]

Women play with men's emotions as well.

[brainygirl]

Women play with men's emotions as well.

 

So as a woman, I have to pay for every crime every woman ever committed against a man in the history of love and romance?

 

Bull!

 

I treat every person I meet with honesty and respect. If I don't like a man or don't want to date him, I tell him and I tell him why. I don't drag things out hoping for a few more free dinners and I don't chase men I find unappealing just because they may be rich or powerful in the community.

 

I really think there are more women in the world like me than like the hypothetical super biotch you make all women out to be. Unfortunately, it seems to me most men will use women for sex when they aren't interested in them as companions and partners, lead women on when they know they don't want to be with them. Judge women for physical flaws they can't do much about, and leave women they actualyl like because they don't want their friends to make fun of them for dating a woman "like that".

[Woggle]

So as a woman, I have to pay for every crime every woman ever committed against a man in the history of love and romance?

 

".

 

Isn't this pretty much how many women treat men these days? We deserve to be cheated on betrayed and mistreated because it is now payback time and we must be punished for the sins of the patriarchy? That is what I have heard every time a woman has ever done me wrong.

[brainygirl]

Isn't this pretty much how many women treat men these days? We deserve to be cheated on betrayed and mistreated because it is now payback time and we must be punished for the sins of the patriarchy? That is what I have heard every time a woman has ever done me wrong.

 

No, it isn't, and I still think you've mostly dated the wrong women.

 

I look at getting back for the patriarchy as being a single mom and still being able to get my education and work and not have to rely on social services, which is where the "old school" types would rather see me. I don't see it as abusing people around me.

[InceptorsRule]

No, its wrong to pursue a woman when you've already decided that she isn't the long term mate type, but you waste her time and play with her emotions because she's willing to sleep with you.

 

Why is it wrong to have consensual sex with another adult?

If it was wrong then the woman is equally to "blame" (although neither is doing anything blameworthy) because she agreed to have sex with the guy.

 

 

If you don't date girls who are sexually loose or what ever, fine, but don't say "I'll date them but only when no one is looking" that's where I have the problem.

 

Why? How could it possibly be a problem for YOU what two OTHER adults decide to consensually do with respect to their sex/social lives?

 

That, and I don't consider my past anyone's business but mine and if my unwillingness to detail every sexual partner for you to decide if I'm good enough is a deal breaker, then you're an idiot.

 

 

Yet you consider everyone else's "business" to be of concern to yourself? Why?

[InceptorsRule]

So as a woman, I have to pay for every crime every woman ever committed against a man in the history of love and romance?

 

Bull!

 

I treat every person I meet with honesty and respect. If I don't like a man or don't want to date him, I tell him and I tell him why. I don't drag things out hoping for a few more free dinners and I don't chase men I find unappealing just because they may be rich or powerful in the community.

 

I really think there are more women in the world like me than like the hypothetical super biotch you make all women out to be. Unfortunately, it seems to me most men will use women for sex when they aren't interested in them as companions and partners, lead women on when they know they don't want to be with them. Judge women for physical flaws they can't do much about, and leave women they actualyl like because they don't want their friends to make fun of them for dating a woman "like that".

 

What the heck are you talking about?

 

Do you realize that the woman has to want to "do" the sex or it can't happen? Are you actually saying that when a woman has consensual sex with a man, she's not making a free choice to do so?

Edited August 9, 2010 by InceptorsRule

[sally4sara]

Interesting that in your thoroughly strained and laughable attempt to streettttccch the topic of an unrelated thread into this one that you don't list the age of the male in question (18), and instead characterize him merely as "an adult."

 

I find nothing inherently wrong in an 18 y.o. kid dating a 14 y.o. kid. I did it at 18, as did a majority of my friends. It is done every day in every neighborhood everywhere, whether you like it or not. What's sad is that adults have been so conditioned by a "child protective" farce of a culture, and so controlled by their own dirty minds, that they can't conceive of the possibility that a date is just a date for lots of young people, but must necessarily involve the shadow of statutory rape, pedophilia or some other perversion. That's -your- problem showing, not the kids'. There is no law anywhere in the U.S. preventing an 18 y.o. from taking a 14 y.o. to the mall, for a hamburger or to a movie. It's solely a matter between the kids and their parents. Don't like that? Stage a march on your legislature and watch as you get laughed back under your rock.

 

How bout not wasting space in this thread with any more of this inane, rather obsessive problem you have with me concerning another unrelated thread. Necro up that thread if you want to further beat a dead horse, don't do it here.

 

I notice that you ignored the meat of my post because it shows your view about how easy finding sex is for women in comparison to men (when really its about it being easier for women than it is FOR YOU) to be a hollow claim. Instead, you focus on why I find you creepy. *snicker* puleeze. Like you think nothing of it if an 18 year old woman dated a 14 year old boy.

 

There are very real reasons why promiscuity in men is worse than promiscuity in women, all while ignoring that it is risky for both. To men behaving this way is acceptable while women behaving this way is soooo wrong is a self serving motivation. For you, it hinges on how hard it is FOR YOU to find a willing sex partner and little else.

 

Take note too that you think its okay for men to screw any takers because you feel it is harder for men to find sex. But the OP has made it clear he can find female attention easily. Yet you don't apply the same standard concerning attainability to him. I wonder why that is?

 

Of course men want to think they are made better by doing something everyone was born to do. They like that benefit so much so in fact, that they also seek to remove women from their imposed competition on the matter. How could they continue to use their numbers as a way to prove their manhood if women acted the same?

[marsle85]

Women may have a buffet table of choices concerning sex, but men have the very same table when it comes to dating/relationships.

[brainygirl]

Why is it wrong to have consensual sex with another adult?

If it was wrong then the woman is equally to "blame" (although neither is doing anything blameworthy) because she agreed to have sex with the guy.

 

 

 

 

Why? How could it possibly be a problem for YOU what two OTHER adults decide to consensually do with respect to their sex/social lives?

 

 

 

 

Yet you consider everyone else's "business" to be of concern to yourself? Why?

 

I realize you have a strong urge to troll and take over any thread that happens to catch your eye, so I will attempt to explain once, then I'm done.

 

The OP and woggle were discussing the phenomenon where by men will pursue some women purely for sex with no intention of ever dating or building a long term realtionship, while other women they will pursue for a long term relationship.

 

The criteria they base the decision on is the woman's sexuality. And they don't seem to tell the girl up front "I like you and spending time with you and you are great in bed, but because you slept with me when I asked and are great in bed, you must be promiscous and I will not date you" I'll **** you, but not date you in other words.

 

I think this attitude is wrong and unfair to women. As a woman who's been placed in the situation of being the girl he'd screw but not date, its hurtful and unfair. Did I consent to the sex? yes. Did I consent to be his back up plan? No. Do I consider myself to be promiscous? No. Is it fair to willingly sleep with a girl the first or second date and then be like "she slept with me, it was great, but it was too easy, so I'll string her along and use her for sex for a few months before she gets the picture and dumps my ass", no that attitude isn't fair.

 

If a man sleeps with a woman on the first date, he's the slut too and has no right to then decide she's not worth dating as a long term thing.

 

I don't care how many multi quotes you go through, its still an ugly attitude and unfair to women.

[zengirl]

This statement from zengirl perfectly captures the sexual zeitgeist of the modern American woman. (Although I don't know if she's American herself.)

 

I am. And yeah, I pretty much reserve the right to do whatever I want with my body, so long as it isn't hurting someone else. That doesn't mean I tend to make unhealthy choices -- I don't sleep around, smoke, do drugs, eat fast food, etc -- but I sure as heck don't want to hear from someone who smokes that I'd be a bad person if I started smoking. Hypocrisy is lame.

 

trying to make excuses for one's own behavior by pointing a finger at a person who is obviously differently situated than oneself and claiming "but... but... they did it too."

 

A woman who engages in certain sexual behavior may be, on the discretion of whomever is evaluating, held accountable for that behavior in a way that the average man can never, ever be due to the genders being differently situated in how they seek and obtain sex, due to the relative ease with which average women may obtain sex in comparison to average men.

 

Yeah, I suggest you look up hypocrisy in a dictionary. I'm not a fan of the "They did it too!" excuse (two wrongs don't make a right) but that has nothing to do with my point. Value systems are entirely within your control. Actually, I think what you've said could be used to make the argument that women shouldn't date men who want to sleep around and that just because they haven't doesn't suggest any honor or chastity on their part.

 

The whole "Well, it's harder for us" argument just doesn't work if it's about values. Values are choices and sacrifices you make, consciously. Thus, a chaste woman has -- by your own assessment -- made conscious choices to stay that way, whereas a man just hasn't gotten the chance to whore around? Values aren't dependent upon circumstances.

 

So, arguments that attempt to characterize average men as hypocrites for nixing women who engage in certain levels of sexual activity are bogus arguments on their face.

 

Man, I don't care what fellows do, really. But they are hypocrites. They are the very definition of it. I certainly hope these fellows will stay away from me too, if they're hypocrites in this manner, so I hope they'll be damn open about it, because I'm not going to sleep around to get them to stay away.

 

There are indeed circumstances where men should and are held accountable for their sexual behavior by those seeking a certain type of partner, but the topic of this thread, as it applies to average men, is not one of those circumstances.

 

Let me make this simple for you: I think everyone should be held accountable for all of their behavior all the time. Period. In fact, that includes their desires, values, thoughts, and dreams, not just their actions and behavior. Everyone should own all of their own crap. That's actually the biggest issue I have with this whole analogy of yours; you're saying, "Hey, this is wrong, but men shouldn't have to own it because they're at such a disadvantage."

 

To the rest of your rambling blahblahblah. . . I'm writing my opinions ON YOUR IDEAS, not ad hominem arguments. Let me make this clear: I think your ideas are lousy and I've said why. I don't know you as a person and wouldn't pretend to. I'm characterizing you as a poster, at times, sure, but it relies entirely on things you've actually said. Your ideas.

 

You actually completely missed my point about scarcity (and I was referring to several other threads, not just one), which was related to the notions thrown out in this thread. You're the one who brought up the availability of sex as the crux of the issue. I see the availability of something as unrelated to a person's character or values.

 

No, no no.

 

I think it's more to do that if the OP is having sex with these women just as "freely", then he's just as much of a (as per MDM quote - "whore") too.

 

Yes. This.

 

So, in this long, convoluted post, what you're saying is even though a man may display just as much compulsive and promiscuous behavior and a total lack of self-control, they just aren't as successful at satisfying it as women. Therefore, we should feel sorry for 'em and NOT call 'em sluts but denegrate women?

 

Or this.

 

Women play with men's emotions as well.

 

Of course they do. All kinds of people act horribly. That doesn't mean that every other person of their gender, creed, race, nationality, etc acts the same way. I've seen men act horrible, and I've seen women act horrible. Anyone who hasn't is either living under a rock or seeing what they want to see. The problem comes in when you say, "Well, I started acting horrible because she was!"

 

To that, I'll return to the earlier point with meerkat's whole "but. . . but. . . they did it too" thing. The reason that doesn't work on the topic he's trying to use it is that it implies one has reactionary behavior to another (i.e. women sleeping around just because men do, so they do it too, and then saying they aren't wrong because "men started it"----that would be lame; I don't think they're "wrong" perse, but it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with my refusal to tell another person that it's wrong to do anything with their body).

[Woggle]

Women may have a buffet table of choices concerning sex, but men have the very same table when it comes to dating/relationships.

 

How so? It is in no easy for a man to find a good relationship these days. Look at this board to see how much relationship drama men go through.

[sally4sara]

How so? It is in no easy for a man to find a good relationship these days. Look at this board to see how much relationship drama men go through.

 

I'd say it is about as easy for men to find a good relationship with a woman as it is for a woman to find good sex with a man.

[meerkat stew]

I notice that you ignored the meat of my post

 

Just like I am ignoring the rest of this one and subsequent ones

 

You have proven yourself incapable of having a rational, adult discussion. I don't know if it's more sad, or funny, that you believe fallacious ad hominem attacks are legitimate "points" to be made in a discussion. For future reference, they aren't, not at the "grownup table" anyway.

 

Now you want to clumsily switch fallacy horses from the "he dates children" absurdity to a "he can't get laid" tack. Why would I take the time to respond in a reasoned, detailed way to such? Would be like trying to have a conversation with a gerbil.

[MrNate]

Women may have a buffet table of choices concerning sex, but men have the very same table when it comes to dating/relationships.

 

This is exactly how I feel. Which is why I don't think the idea of what gender gets sex easier is something to get worked up over. Women may in fact carry greater weight in the sex department, but when it comes to relationships, I think men have a pretty firm grip.

[Woggle]

This is exactly how I feel. Which is why I don't think the idea of what gender gets sex easier is something to get worked up over. Women may in fact carry greater weight in the sex department, but when it comes to relationships, I think men have a pretty firm grip.

 

Where? What about all these men having relationship drama?