Genuine Classy Lady or a Retired Jump Off?

[Woggle]

I admit I don't admire my mother. I won't go out of my way to hate her but she is an extremely messed up and twisted person inside.

[mr.dream merchant]

Multiple partners when they're single* and picture her naked, ehh, I'll use "think of her sexually for a split second"..sounds a tad less perverted lol.

 

And that want that women have is understandable, but why do some women mistreat men who do give women their all, and make said woman the only woman in his life? Men know women want to be loved, but some aren't quick to do so because emotions are serious, and sometimes when a guy gives a woman his heart, she abuses it and tosses him away.

[ConfusedAsUsual]

good basis for a conclusion. Awesome

 

 

Its my opinion. You don't like it? Tough

[Woggle]

Multiple partners when they're single* and picture her naked, ehh, I'll use "think of her sexually for a split second"..sounds a tad less perverted lol.

 

And that want that women have is understandable, but why do some women mistreat men who do give women their all, and make said woman the only woman in his life? Men know women want to be loved, but some aren't quick to do so because emotions are serious, and sometimes when a guy gives a woman his heart, she abuses it and tosses him away.

 

This is true. Most men want a faithful and loving relationship but they are scared to death of getting their heart broken because they see how many women treat men like that.

[ConfusedAsUsual]

I admit I don't admire my mother. I won't go out of my way to hate her but she is an extremely messed up and twisted person inside.

 

 

I don't think you admire ANY women.

[Woggle]

I don't think you admire ANY women.

 

I do admire a few but few is the right word.

[ConfusedAsUsual]

I do admire a few but few is the right word.

 

 

I think you have some serious issues when it comes to women. A MALE shrink is in order.

[TheBigQuestion]

I do not understand why people do not get what Meerkat Stew and TheBIGQuestion are saying. It is really very simple. Comparing the experiences between the average man and the average woman while assuming that the givens are equal (they are not) is just silly and pointing them out does not mean the person doing the pointing out is a "woman-hater". Not everything can be reduced to or are based on emotions. The position stated by the posters mentioned previously are logical.IMHO.

 

A lot of women have this knee-jerk reaction whenever they hear anyone say anything that could possibly (no matter how remote the possibility) be construed as being challenging to their sexual/reproductive rights. Apparently meerkat is a woman-hater because he points out real-life differences between how men and women acquire sexual partners. He never once advocates any type of misogyny. For whatever reason, a lot of women have problems with being told that there are any limitations as to what they can do, or that there are some things that whether by societal conditioning, nature, or both, men are better at. Most men don't have this problem. For instance, it's generally accepted that, for whatever reasons, women tend to be better at multi-tasking than men. Some also say that women's pain tolerance is generally higher than men's pain tolerance by a slight margin. I don't take this as an insult or affront to my gender.

[tami-chan]

Its my opinion. You don't like it? Tough

 

 

HUH? where did YOU come from? ohhhhhh I get it...you are also KATIE29..Take a nap, dear..your "confusion" is showing:p

[zengirl]

Can everybody at least agree that it is not smart for people of either gender to date known players?

 

Yes. Let's.

 

Why is this such a huge issue again? I don't really see how men can hold a double standard of that caliber against women. I mean think about it at its basic level..even if the woman is/was very promiscuous, she still needs a male for this sex to happen. So basically, the men keep getting a pass while the woman's hole is dug deeper. I don't know, I just don't think it's far to be like that.

 

I know this comes from the idea that it's easier for women to get sex than men, so men should not be labeled for taking advantage of opportunitites, and women should be ostracized for doing so.

 

This comes across to me as a situation that's been created out of pure imagination more than anything.. This idea that the big bad woman, who understands that sex will never be a problem for her, is going around waving it in front of men's faces and bragging about how easy it is. So because she's doing this, the men feel, in order to level the playing field proceed to label and humiliate women for their sexual acts, while justifying theirs. See the problem here?? Lots of made up mental play.

 

It's safe to assume that most mentally healthy women acknowledge their sexual power, but it no way do they go around abusing it nor boasting about it. Part of it is because they know sex is not the means by which they measure their worth, and the other part is they just really don't care. I assume most of them want to have sex with men they find attractive and want to be around (like us guys)...instead of creeps/stalkers which I'm sure they have to deal with quite often.

 

So why can we just drop the labeling?

 

Well, I think this makes loads of sense. It kind of makes me sorry I give you such a hard time sometimes. (But only kind of!)

 

I don't encourage or condone double standards. Like I've been saying (and to which neither you or anyone else has actually responded to adequately), the differences in general attitudes between male and female promiscuity is not a true double standard. It would only be a double standard if all the facts between the two parties remain consistent. Considering that meerkat's original example is a pretty accurate description of the differences between male and female ease of access of sex, it's obvious that the facts between the two parties are not consistent. Is the OP right to look down on people who behave the same way as him as inferior or broken people? No. This non-double standard is not an excuse for these types of beliefs, and these beliefs are not really even justifiable by the non-double standard if you think about it.

 

It is in the dictionary as a double standard. I don't understand why people persist in trying to make up their own meanings for words. It may not be a "true" double standard to you, but it actually fits the definition. When people make up there own words, it is nearly impossible to discuss things. So, I don't honestly know what you even mean. But glad to see we agree about the OP being wrong to look down on others.

 

Let's go to the definition of "promiscuous" for this one. (We can likely throw out the first one.)

 

Main Entry: pro·mis·cu·ous

 

1 : composed of all sorts of persons or things

2 : not restricted to one class, sort, or person : indiscriminate <education…cheapened through the promiscuous distribution of diplomas — Norman Cousins>

3 : not restricted to one sexual partner

 

 

I really don't understand all the blathering about logic. I am very logical, but I also understand that to make logical arguments, you have to do more than simply be consistent with your own points. You have to be consistent with words. I cede the point that men have a harder time finding sex partners than women. Freely. But I fail to see how that translates to "female sluts are more promiscuous." meerkat's analogy of the peanuts was the worst of all. Of course a male who eats less peanuts (has fewer sex partners) is less gluttonous than a female who eats more (has more sex partners), regardless of how hard either of them worked for said peanuts. I could list the definition of gluttony, but I'm really not trying to be tedious with all this defining.

 

How does the availability of sex have to do with choosing to sleep with many? In fact, ratio-wise, if a woman has more access to sex and chooses to have the same amount of partners, how can she possibly be MORE promiscuous? She's turned down more people and been more picky. I fail to see the logic in how the "work" for said sex factors into how particular one is about who they sleep with. If I send out 300 resumes to 300 jobs, I am probably MORE indiscriminate even if I only get 1 offer than a person who is 10 for 10. My point isn't been that the way men and women seek sex is the same. It's that promiscuity is affected very little by having no strike outs. Likewise, if people have 10 job offers and jump from one job to another, it doesn't matter how hard they worked for the jobs, they're both going to look unsettled, flaky, and sporadic. . . in pretty much equal measure.

 

Really, the differing standards relies on believing men require sex more than women do. I don't happen to believe anyone requires sex. (Sexual relief? Perhaps. Though some monks never masturbate. But no one needs another person for that.) I don't happen to believe all men have high sex drives and all women have low sex drives. In fact, there is a great variance within each gender from what I can suss out. I also believe it has something to do with the poster who talked about worrying whether one's offspring was genetically theirs (sure, women never have to worry about that), but that's made somewhat outdated in this day and age to a degree with medicine and biology being where they are. That said, I don't see why anyone would ever marry anyone they had conscious worries of cuckolding them or cheating on them (male or female). Since man isn't traveling the world killing buffalo and heathens for me and my country, I don't think this would factor into any adult relationship I'd ever be in. So, any man who still lets it is unattractive to me.

 

People can believe any darn thing they like. I tolerate religious zealots living in the world who believe a lot worse things than that a woman who sleeps with 100 fellows isn't marriage material. I do think it's lame if a man of similar numbers wants a mate of a different caliber than himself, but so long as he isn't lying to find one, I see nothing wrong with it except hypocrisy. Some people don't mind hypocrisy, just like some people don't mind loads of other things; we all have our own set of standards.

Edited August 11, 2010 by zengirl

[meerkat stew]

I feel you hate women.

 

Why? Because I do not agree there is a double standard on this issue?

 

Whom did you vote for last election? Do you "hate" the person you didn't vote for? If you disagree with a cultural standard, such as the right to bear arms, do you "hate" those who support the right to bear arms? Let's say you ask someone out and they say "no," do you "hate" that person? If someone on television states a different view on an issue than yours, do you "hate" that person? If you have been treated badly a few relationships in a row and vent on an internet forum that "men suck!" does that mean you actually "hate" men? If you feel drinking is wrong on Sunday, and see someone having a cocktail in a restaurant, do you "hate" that person, or "hate" the restaurant, or "hate" the bartender or waitress? If you get angry and call the DOT due to a road blockage where the workers weren't working, does that mean you "hate" those workers?

 

Perhaps this is overkill, but sometime in the last 20 years, the word "hate" became a meaningless insult to toss at someone you don't agree with.

 

I do have some issues with pervasive attitudes of American women of my generation and the immediately subsequent, but understand that these are not attitudes that "all" women have. Women of prior generations don't seem to have them, nor do many individual women of the contemporary generations. I hate neither the women for having the attitudes I disagree with, nor, of course, the others who agree with me.

 

Moreover, people who "hate" others or groups of people are usually too far along in their beliefs to attempt discussions of issues. Do you think the Nazis were interested in discussing their feelings with the Jews in Germany? Of course not, because they truly "hated" the Jews. Do you think the KKK is open to discussing its feelings about minorities or immigrants? Of course not, they truly "hate" those people. People who truly hate aren't likely to change, nor are they likely to engage in any discourse or contact with the object of their hatred if they can help it.

 

You have been polite, but want to point out that accusing someone you disagree with of "hatred" is a very aggressive, offensive and obnoxious thing to do. Part of my disagreement with current culture is that accusing someone of "hatred" is considered perfectly legitimate discussion technique, when it is anything but. Please consider phrasing your questions about people's beliefs or positions in terms other than "hatred" unless such a harsh term is justified.

[mr.dream merchant]

Glad you mentioned the generation change Meerkat. Why is it that some women behave the way they do now?

 

A lot of senior citizens come to my job, and I chit chat with all of them. Personally I believe that they have wisdom to offer, they've seen, experienced things that I have not, so I seek to gain knowledge from them. When I speak to the older women, they tell me I'm a charming young man and I always laugh. They'll ask me if I have a GF and I tell them no and they seem so shocked. Then they go on to say that women today are much different than before. Older women even admit that younger women today are fast, and a bit on the crazy side lol. My question is, why?

[zengirl]

I do have some issues with pervasive attitudes of American women of my generation and the immediately subsequent, but understand that these are not attitudes that "all" women have. Women of prior generations don't seem to have them, nor do many individual women of the contemporary generations. I hate neither the women for having the attitudes I disagree with, nor, of course, the others who agree with me.

 

After all this, I'm curious as to what generation you are, if you don't mind saying. (For the record, I don't think you hate women. I think you say some pretty ridiculous, archaic, gender biased things sometimes, but hate seems a stretch.)

[carhill]

IIRC, MS is 44-46 yo. I'm 51. The post you quoted rings very familar with myself.

 

In response to a prior post, directed at the OP, his perspective is different than mine. I hold myself to the same standards as I would a potential partner, wrt the subject matter here, and in general.

[elaina]

Hello Meerkat Stew,

 

I didn't accuse you of hating women. I did however say that I felt that you hate women. I understand that my feeling something does not make it true, and I asked you, do you hate women?

 

Mr. DreamMerchant answered the question and helped me understand more how he thinks. I respect him for that and for his honesty. He also told about the most important woman in his life, his Mom, and how he loves and respects her. That is awesome and I really appreciate that. He showed me with his actions and words that he doesn't hate women, by how he talked of his mother (and i believe him because he's so brutally honest) and how he wants his girlfriend when he finds her, to be safe and not do dangerous things.

 

If you were offended, I am sorry to offend you. I'll rephrase it then just for you. Do you think you are very harsh with women, including women who disagree with you?

 

Hello Woggle,

 

Yeah, I understand your posts. And, just like men don't like unfaithfulness and being hurt by women, so women don't like it either. Itd be great if neither one hurt the other!

[zengirl]

Interesting. I find this is a generational thing, of course. With the views I hold, I have a much better chance at having a great career, marriage, and life than a woman 50 or even 20 years ago. I can almost declare my religious and political beliefs without fear of it crumbling my life. I can feel secure in my ability to control my own body to a degree. I can support my friends in loving anyone they choose, and I could love anyone I chose, no matter who I was so inclined towards. My life is better for most of the social changes, attitudes towards gender and sex, and loosening up of prudish, puritanical Judeo-Christian morals, even if I don't exercise every right I'm given. I don't sleep around, but I'm glad there are many fellows in my generation who find it perfectly normal to hold themselves and I to the same sexual standards and don't feel the current pervasive attitudes about women are unhealthy or want some sort of return to the "Good, old days."

 

That said, I don't think anyone has to date anyone with any trait they don't like. I just think general views of woman's sexuality as wrong are more likely to come from men who wish to live in the past. Or women who do.

Edited August 11, 2010 by zengirl

[elaina]

I have never cheated on a woman and never will. Women cheat just as much as men do as well. I don't know why men get such a bad rap on this when neither gender has a monopoly.

 

Hello Woggle,

 

That's great that you've never cheated!

 

Even if somebody doesn't believe in religiously motivated reasons to not cheat, cheating does hurt the person who doesn't want the their loved one to do that.

 

True neither gender has a monopoly on cheating.

 

I'm sorry about your Mom.

[caramel c]

Glad you mentioned the generation change Meerkat. Why is it that some women behave the way they do now?

 

A lot of senior citizens come to my job, and I chit chat with all of them. Personally I believe that they have wisdom to offer, they've seen, experienced things that I have not, so I seek to gain knowledge from them. When I speak to the older women, they tell me I'm a charming young man and I always laugh. They'll ask me if I have a GF and I tell them no and they seem so shocked. Then they go on to say that women today are much different than before. Older women even admit that younger women today are fast, and a bit on the crazy side lol. My question is, why?

 

They ARE different. And there are many reasons for that. Back in the day, girls were being picked up at home where they lived with their families. Their parents met most of their dates and they had curfews. Dating itself was a prerequisite to marriage. Men were the ones who approached the girls, called them, asked them out, drove, and paid. Very soon into the relationship it was determined to be serious or over. I could go on and on...you get it. As far as dating: Things have changed! And, not in a good way (I don't think). The demise of traditional dating practices led to the way young women are today.

[meerkat stew]

I didn't accuse you of hating women. I did however say that I felt that you hate women.

 

There is no difference.

 

I answered your question, maybe in too many words. No, I do not hate women.

 

As far as harshness goes, yes, male or female, on certain hot button topics, my tone can be blunt and direct. If someone says something ridiculous "meerkat dates children," for example, I can get quite harsh. Normally, if someone unduly accuses me of "hating" something or someone, I will reply harshly. There are certain quasi-political conventions of discussion deemed acceptable in current U.S.culture that I respond harshly to also as I find them slanted and obnoxious.

 

I do find women receive more leeway in saying ridiculous, absurd things here and elsewhere than men do. I do believe that women are held less accountable for their actions in current US culture than men are. I do believe that there are many social double standards still in existence that benefit women at men's expense that need to go away before women are to be considered truly equal in people's hearts and minds.

 

That is awesome and I really appreciate that. He showed me with his actions and words that he doesn't hate women,

 

You're certainly entitled to feel so, I think it's great that OP loves his mother, but how did he show anything at all with his actions? I don't recall him describing any specific actions, and we certainly aren't privy to other posters' actions here.

[elaina]

Yeah, Elaina. Stop making meerkat overtype. For godssake.

 

Wow, I feel so powerful! Just what I always wanted, to make a man overtype!

 

Just joking

 

Sorry Meerkat, I have a weird sense of humor.

 

Ok, well, you are right. I'm sorry for using "hate" I did feel that way honestly though, and I stand corrected. I won't make the mistake of telling someting I feel they "hate" someone again, so thanks for teaching me that lesson.

 

I think sometimes it's just hard to understand the opposite gender. Yes men can be very reasonable. I've noticed that with men friends. They can also do other things easier. For example, when my cousin and I play video games together, I always get killed really easy. He doesn't, and he ends up having to play my little Mario guy in certain places where I die each time, in order to get me through to the next level. Not all women are as challenged in this area as me, but my cousin doesn't put me down or mock me or think badly of me because of it. Rather, he enjoys laughing in a fun way WITH me, even though he also enjys playing games with his male friends who he doesn't have to rescue!

 

So, I get a bit what you're saying. Could you try to not be so harsh though?Please?

 

Both men and women have positive traits and negative traits, and not all men or women can be fit into a certain mold, agreed?

Edited August 11, 2010 by elaina

[meerkat stew]

So I'd say you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble with the typing. YW!

 

I agree, you definitely shouldn't read my posts, they will just confuse and frustrate you. Stick to Better Homes and Gardens and Reader's Digest, more your speed.

[meerkat stew]

Could you try to not be so harsh though?Please?

 

Sorry, no.

[elaina]

Sorry, no.

 

Ah come on! Compromise is a good thing!

 

Women have great insights that men can learn from if men look at what women say in an open way, same as men have great insights that women can learn from if women look at what men say in an open way.

 

Oh, about Mr. Dreammerchants' actions, the action I was refering to was how he responded to my message. Responding is an action, even though the action was writing.

 

Peace? (Both men and women live in on this earth together, so we can respect and learn from each other while we're here, agreed? Valid points can be found regardless of a person's gender.

 

No gender wars! (except for girls rule, but sshhh, that's a secret)

[flying]

I agree, you definitely shouldn't read my posts, they will just confuse and frustrate you. Stick to Better Homes and Gardens and Reader's Digest, more your speed.

 

Bwah. At least they have editors.

[TheBigQuestion]

To lighten the mood a little bit (but still stay somewhat on topic), I present to you Chris Rock's views on debating/arguing between men and women.

 

 

Fast foward to about 2:18, and it perfectly illustrates what's been happening in this thread.