He called but did not leave a message, would you call back?

[conehead]

Ok so he texted me at 6:40 today....he didn't mention he called but asked me whether I was still at work. I haven't called him yet as I'm still not sure as to whether I want to see him again or not.

 

 

Also, did he pay for the dates?

 

hahahah.....ok well on the first date he paid for lunch and I paid for ice cream (only $6). On date #2, well he paid for his own theme park tix and I paid my own (it was $70!!). However, he paid the rest of all that day's lunch and dinner and churros/drinks.

 

I was diasappointed that he let me pay my own tix but maybe I'm expecting too much.

 

Now, our connection was overall quite good and we had alot of good conversations and laughter throughout that long 12 hour date.

 

That being said, there were a few other things about him that bothered me. For dinner we went to a place where we grab what we want and all the plates get counted in the tab. After we ate I grabbed a plate and he asked if that was ours and I thought for a few seconds and said 'ye-ees' and he said sternly 'we need to make sure because it costs money'. I didnt like that. He doesn't exactly make me feel good when I'm with him, unlike guys i've dated in the past who make me feel amazing.

 

One other thing, I pointed a guys' belly out on tv and he said 'do you want to get in the hot tub with him?' I thought that comment was a bit inappropriate.

[Sphere]

Any heterosexual man who spends 12 hours with a woman doing 'couple things', like at an amusement park, and doesn't kiss her or otherwise show his intent, combined with not leaving an assertive/flirty VM when he calls, is either impotent or has low to no interest. So, perhaps your spidey sense is ticking correctly here.

 

Escalation is key!

[Cracker Jack]

I can't believe some of the things I'm reading in this topic.

 

OP, if he doesn't make you feel "amazing" like guys from before did, why even contemplate seeing him again or not? And I'm wondering if he'd be in a good position if he happened to pay for your ticket. Probably wouldn't be, tho.

[zengirl]

although this is the status quo for most women I really think it's just another game/power maneuver. You would call back literally anyone else except a telemarketer or complete stranger? If I was him I wouldn't expect a call back but meh. You risk losing a guy you're interested in when playing games, so just be aware...

 

No, I really wouldn't call anyone else back. A close friend, a family member, or a significant other would get a call back, but that's because we would already have established that we talk a lot and messages are unnecessary. Even then, I'd take the lack of message to mean that a call back wasn't pressing and that they didn't need one. . . but I'd get around to calling them eventually anyhow, because we'd naturally talk.

 

I think it's much more of a gameplay not to leave a message. I always leave a message when I call someone, unless it's one of the above, and it's not pressing they call me back. If I lose a guy that can't leave a message or send me a quick text to let me know they called, I'm cool with that. It's about communication compatibility. The more I know/like the guy, the more I'd overlook this, because the easier it would be to assess if it was a true sample of his communication style (needlessly indirect) or just something he did once and awhile. If we'd been dating awhile and I liked him otherwise, but he wasn't yet an SO, I might call him back and ask him to leave a message next time because it is important to me. But I wouldn't probably dig/know a guy well enough to do that after 2 dates, which was the scenario here.

Edited August 12, 2010 by zengirl

[conehead]

You didn't have the perfect date with him, but it certainly wasn't a disaster. I'm someone who always offers to pay for first date dinners and such, but there's only so much I will pay for. I don't know if I would want to pay for everything on a 12 hour date at an expensive amusement park when it's only the second date.

 

Why not tell him you liked him, but are not interested in going further if you don't want to go out with him again.

 

Leaving a man hanging for this is not nice at all.

 

It's very interesting that I see all over this forum that the guys who are ok dates often get treated the harshest. It seems like the horrible dates get told "no" while the ok dates get the cruel ignore and are left wondering if she's interested for a week.

 

 

Ok so I went ahead and texted him that I enjoyed spending time with him but feel we are better off as just friends. He replied back 15 minutes later that he is fine with that. He said he enjoyed spending time with me too and thinks I'm an amazing person and hope we can still hang out. How ironic, just when I thought I didnt want to see him because he doesnt make me feel amazing.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if I should hang out with him. A few months ago a similar situation happened where i prefered to just be friends with a guy and it was kind of a disaster. His heart broke and I felt like cr*p cuz of it....

[Mutant Debutante]

Ok so I went ahead and texted him that I enjoyed spending time with him but feel we are better off as just friends. He replied back 15 minutes later that he is fine with that. He said he enjoyed spending time with me too and thinks I'm an amazing person and hope we can still hang out. How ironic, just when I thought I didnt want to see him because he doesnt make me feel amazing.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if I should hang out with him. A few months ago a similar situation happened where i prefered to just be friends with a guy and it was kind of a disaster. His heart broke and I felt like cr*p cuz of it....

 

Well, that does happen sometimes, but you're probably not THAT awesome that no guy can be near you without little birds suddenly appearing. Maybe he really wants to be friends...you did spend 12 hours hanging out and it sounds like you had a pretty good time even if it wasn't romantic.

 

Anyway I definitely think it's good that you responded and told him how you felt, so he wasn't left hanging.

 

As far as splitting the amusement park tickets goes, that's not so disappointing in my book. I date a lot of starving artists/students though, so if we make a plan to do something like that it's pretty normal to go dutch. I usually prefer to do inexpensive things on dates, a light hike and a picnic, a tour of some art galleries or a trip to the museum, a day at the beach, browsing the bookstore and then going for ice cream, going to the free concert at the park and having a couple drinks after. Since I'm a broke mofo myself though I would have a raised eyebrow if my date planned a trip to an amusement park without checking with me about my finances and then didn't mention until we got there that I needed to pay $70...I wouldn't do that to him, either. So I guess it depends on circumstances and how it was approached.

 

Good luck finding that guy that makes you feel amazing.

[dispatch3d]

If that's what happened, he should definitely call and leave me a message to tell me about that. I would enjoy hearing the story.

blablabla

 

If you find a woman preferring a five second voice message or text from a guy she is still in the very initial stages of dating to be a massive entitlement issue, the dating world must really be giving you an aneurysm.

 

Thanks a bunch panda this is EXACTLY the explanation I wanted. It's more important for me to understand what you're reading into the "lack of a message" than to be told/know that I'm supposed to leave one (for whatever reason). It is very possible you are screening out guys who either (A) haven't learned this information so haven't started doing it - they aren't players, or (B) falsely screening out guys because they don't like leaving messages - in general-.

 

So did you decide to not go on a second date with him because he didn't leave a voicemail/never got ahold of you? To me the connection>this reasoning but anyways.

[conehead]

The theme park was his idea.

[Lady vs Panda]

Thanks a bunch panda this is EXACTLY the explanation I wanted. It's more important for me to understand what you're reading into the "lack of a message" than to be told/know that I'm supposed to leave one (for whatever reason). It is very possible you are screening out guys who either (A) haven't learned this information so haven't started doing it - they aren't players, or (B) falsely screening out guys because they don't like leaving messages - in general-.

 

.

 

No problemo.

 

I think you will often find posters happy to break things down for you that way if you can get over the tendency to rant pointlessly about entitlement and just ask.

 

You are correct, it is possible that some good guys have slipped through the cracks by my taking their lack of pointed pursuit as lack of interest. But I'm not lonely, I'm not crying into my beer, and that is how life works, people have to present themselves well when they are going for something they want. I definitely don't think it's only players who have learned to leave messages when they call a woman for a date; it really is considered common courtesy by many, many people.

[Lotus Flower]

agree with A Woman - it's no big deal just call him back, Don't read too much into it....the longer you eave it the more silly it'll look. I get the fact that yes it would've been better if he left a message but he could've been distracted, or thought that maybe he'll try caling back again but got caught up etc etc....JUST CALL HIM!!

[stellaluna]

Don't call him, he didn't leave a message because he wants to pursue you. He prolly didn't want to leave a vm because he wants to be an initiator. I will call a girl and not leave a message but that's because I want to talk to her, not leave a message and then wait for a call back.

 

Take it from a guy he is prolly waiting to try again at another time when he can talk to you.

 

If you call him back, you might ruin his want to chase you a bit.

[dispatch3d]

No problemo.

 

I think you will often find posters happy to break things down for you that way if you can get over the tendency to rant pointlessly about entitlement and just ask.

 

You are correct, it is possible that some good guys have slipped through the cracks by my taking their lack of pointed pursuit as lack of interest. But I'm not lonely, I'm not crying into my beer, and that is how life works, people have to present themselves well when they are going for something they want. I definitely don't think it's only players who have learned to leave messages when they call a woman for a date; it really is considered common courtesy by many, many people.

 

ahhh still think you have a sense of entitlement. Do still appreciate the breakdown. "Have to present themselves well".

 

Players will be the ones leaving the messages every time. This at the very least seems obvious to me. Players will make less "****ups".... if not leaving a message is a ****up to begin with.

[zengirl]

ahhh still think you have a sense of entitlement. Do still appreciate the breakdown. "Have to present themselves well".

 

Players will be the ones leaving the messages every time. This at the very least seems obvious to me. Players will make less "****ups".... if not leaving a message is a ****up to begin with.

 

I think it can be said that anyone who expects a call-back (from someone they don't know well yet) without leaving a message has a sense of entitlement.

[dispatch3d]

I think it can be said that anyone who expects a call-back (from someone they don't know well yet) without leaving a message has a sense of entitlement.

 

I would assume most guys even semi in-the-know wouldn't expect a callback in this situation. This is why I think it'd be a nice gesture if you actually liked the guy to call him back. If you are luke warm I can see why being so meh works.

[zengirl]

I would assume most guys even semi in-the-know wouldn't expect a callback in this situation. This is why I think it'd be a nice gesture if you actually liked the guy to call him back. If you are luke warm I can see why being so meh works.

 

That seems backwards to me. If the fellow actually liked me and wanted to hear from me, he should leave a message. He was weird first. And that weirdness led to him not getting a nice callback from me, in a natural fashion. It's not like I sit around at home and deduct points and think about this. I just don't put much effort into calling people I don't yet know well who have shown low communication skills in this way. . . because it is tedious. If I really liked the guy for some reason, I suppose I would call him back eventually, but I've never really liked a guy after 2 dates and considered him a vital part of my life yet. That seems. . . odd. Like I said, if a SO called me, I don't need a message. We're going to talk soon anyway. But, as a general rule, I don't check my Call Log to return calls.

 

There's no entitlement involved. I don't feel "entitled" to a message or "entitled" to even be called (unless the fellow SAID he was going to call, and then I feel a bit entitled, but not surprised if it doesn't happen, because people should do what they say they will; but I don't get angry; I just discard the experience like everybody else and move along). I do think if you want a call back, you should leave a message. That's why voicemail exists. This applies to everything, including dating. But it's not because I'm "entitled" to it---it's because it's polite, normal, direct communication.

[dispatch3d]

If the fellow actually liked me and wanted to hear from me, he should leave a message. He was weird first. And that weirdness led to him not getting a nice callback from me, in a natural fashion. ... If I really liked the guy for some reason, I suppose I would call him back eventually, but I've never really liked a guy after 2 dates and considered him a vital part of my life yet. But it's not because I'm "entitled" to it---it's because it's polite, normal, direct communication.

 

It isn't weird to not leave a voicemail message after calling a girl. Lots of girls won't even bother to call a girl. I'm saying you would be better served actually calling back the guys who did well/you liked more. It's not even a sign that you realllly like the guy, if I was the dude I'd just think you were cool for calling me back. That's basically it. The screen you are putting up to me is silly. It (1) will result in a higher percentage of players getting callbacks than nonplayers (I assume this is a bad thing, if it's a good thing then carry on), and (2) as a guy I can tell you isn't actually a reflection of how much I like a girl AT ALL. It's a reflection of how willing I am to leave a voicemail. Just check through all the posts left. In fact the only guys saying they would leave a voicemail are doing it because they know some girls like that sort of thing. Not to say leaving a voicemail is or isn't the best idea at this stage.

 

Why is your level of having to callback so high? This isn't a huge sign that you are in love with him. Why not callback the good dates and leave the bad dates. I don't see what you really accomplish not giving a callback to guys you are even above-average on (or whatever positive threshold you chose). Like the more worthwhile guys are going to call you fewer times than the less worthwhile guys simply because they aren't as needy/etc....

 

The only true problem I can see with an unsolicited callback is you feel you now have to accept any date offers he gives you just to be congruent with being interested enough to call him. Whereas if he had left a voicemail and you called him back you could "claim" not being responsible (which I realize is HUGE for girls)... afterall you are just being polite rather than option (1). But after me explaining this is has to be obvious you are doing the exact same thing as in (1) it just isn't as plainly obvious as in that case.

 

If the screen seemed worthwhile to me I could maybe understand. It doesn't seem like it would do the things you intend it to.

[Lady vs Panda]

I think it can be said that anyone who expects a call-back (from someone they don't know well yet) without leaving a message has a sense of entitlement.

 

 

This.

 

 

I'm struck with the oddness of your assuming that only players would leave a woman a message when they call, putting aside the unlikelihood that I would ever accept a date from a player in the first place.

 

In my many years of dating, most men have called, and some have not. Of the callers, most by far either left a message or text, or called back shortly after. Very shortly. Because these are hallmarks of common courtesy, and ways to indicate that the woman is a high priority to you.

 

In your world, only players display courtesy towards women? Only players prioritize a woman highly?

 

May I ask how old you are?

Edited August 14, 2010 by Lady vs Panda

[dispatch3d]

Lol I'm guessing you didn't go back and read the messages in this thread. I'm also guessing you decided to win this arguement you would make a strawman out of my side of the story and say I said ONLY players call back. Obviously I didn't say that.

 

I'm clearly immature though and not trying to help you out with picking out the right ones who are calling you rather than the wrong ones.

 

If I were to group them I would assume:

(1) Players will leave a voicemail at some point (likely the last call as this is ideal) BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT WORKS! Thinking you are above players is hilarious.

 

(2) The needy/clingy ones will leave messages, call you endlessly, etc. This is obviously a bad thing. It results because you are their only option. There are obviously varying levels of extremes and you won't always pickup on a needy guy immediately.

 

(3) Some guys without any hangups will call 2-3 times, may or may not leave a message depending on how comfortable they are about leaving messages.

 

(4) Other random guys somewhere inbetween groups (1) and (2) will leave messages because this is their communication style.

 

(5) Other guys will leave messages because they know girls like this sort of thing. They would be borderline players I guess.

 

I would say, just from the vast amounts of voicemessages I personally get from guys (this means almost none), that very few guys fit into group 4. Which seems to me to be the group you are trying to target.

 

Which is also why I don't understand the screen. I don't see how the screen works to keep those guys in.

[zengirl]

It isn't weird to not leave a voicemail message after calling a girl. . . . In fact the only guys saying they would leave a voicemail are doing it because they know some girls like that sort of thing. Not to say leaving a voicemail is or isn't the best idea at this stage.

 

How old are you? It is weird not to leave a voicemail if you want someone to call back. People don't leave a voicemail because (a) either they don't need a call back, (b) They know they'll talk to you eventually, or © They're going to call again to try to catch you. A voicemail is a system designed so that people can leave messages that say, "Call me back." What is your obsession with people not leaving them? Is this some new fad? I'm only 25, but even in my generation, most folks use voicemail (or a follow-up text instead) in this way. Once you start working and leaving VM professionally, it becomes even more ingrained in you that it is simply a polite, normal way of communicating.

 

I'm struck with the oddness of your assuming that only players would leave a woman a message when they call, putting aside the unlikelihood that I would ever accept a date from a player in the first place.

 

In my many years of dating, most men have called, and some have not. Of the callers, most by far either left a message or text, or called back shortly after. Very shortly. Because these are hallmarks of common courtesy, and ways to indicate that the woman is a high priority to you.

 

In your world, only players display courtesy towards women? Only players prioritize a woman highly?

 

May I ask how old you are?

 

Yes. I'm younger than her (I think) but my experience, even at 25, has been the same.

 

(1) Players will leave a voicemail at some point (likely the last call as this is ideal) BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT WORKS! Thinking you are above players is hilarious.

 

No, really, some women can spot players a mile away. Thinking players are infallible is hilarious. I'm not saying I've never been on a date with one (have) but it's been rare, and I've never actually become attached to one or "gotten played". And I spot them quite easily now.

 

I suppose whether or not a player leaves a voicemail will depend on the level of his investment with the game with that particular woman. But, yes, players do things they believe will "work". That doesn't mean all healthy, normal people do the opposite; in fact, most of the keenest players are trying to imitate healthy, normal people.

 

(2) The needy/clingy ones will leave messages, call you endlessly, etc. This is obviously a bad thing. It results because you are their only option. There are obviously varying levels of extremes and you won't always pickup on a needy guy immediately.

 

Call me endlessly = turnoff. Leave a message = normal. The two are not related. In fact, if you leave a message, you now have no reason to call me endlessly.

 

I don't think every time I am a guy's only focus that I am his only option, though I don't expect to be a sole focus after a 2nd date, as he isn't mine. It takes less than 1 minute to leave a voicemail. Thus, he has plenty of other time to do other things, and I need not be a sole focus for him to do so.

 

(3) Some guys without any hangups will call 2-3 times, may or may not leave a message depending on how comfortable they are about leaving messages.

Calling back to try to catch me doesn't bother me perse, though I do find discomfort with leaving a message (and/or texting instead, if you really don't want to talk to the machine) to be an unattractive quality. It's not something one should be "uncomfortable" with. It's a normal, basic means of human communication. I used to have to call people all throughout the day at work and leave loads of messages. There is nothing scary about it.

 

(4) Other random guys somewhere inbetween groups (1) and (2) will leave messages because this is their communication style.

These are the guys I date.

 

(5) Other guys will leave messages because they know girls like this sort of thing. They would be borderline players I guess.

Or they know it's normal, human, social behavior. You left that one out. We do loads of other things because it's polite, social behavior, like say "Please" and "Thank you," and "Excuse me," instead of bumping into people while walking, and such. This is the same to me. I wouldn't date a guy who couldn't understand why he should say, "Excuse me," instead of just bumping into someone lightly and expecting them to get the hint either.

 

I would say, just from the vast amounts of voicemessages I personally get from guys (this means almost none), that very few guys fit into group 4. Which seems to me to be the group you are trying to target.

 

Which is also why I don't understand the screen. I don't see how the screen works to keep those guys in.

The way we communicate with our friends who already know us is not the same as the way we communicate with new people we are seeing. I don't always leave a voicemail when I call my friends either. But they know me. And we will talk eventually. If I expected a call back right away, I would.

 

But, really, I'll be honest. I don't "screen in." I "screen out" if anything. This doesn't mean I nitpick at guys, but I don't leap all over myself to find ways to attract more guys or keep more around. . . there are loads, and there are always good ones about, and I'm doing fine.

[westrock]

I'm on the fence with him and perhaps he is the same way with me. Had he left a VM then I'd probably called him back. But him not leaving a VM is just another point deduction for him and he didn't have too many to begin with...

 

During the early stages of dating, we get to know the other person to see if there is an attraction, but it's important to communicate to the other person what are our preferences and expectations for certain things. It's perfectly fine if your preference is that the guy leaves a VM when he calls. Nothing wrong with that.

 

However, just because someone doesn't act exactly in the way we expect them to act during the early stages of dating, it does not mean that we should reject them. How one should act in particular situations may be obvious and common sense, but in other situations how to act can go either way. Normally, one leaves a VM, but there are circumstances when one would not. It's not the crime of the century that he did not leave you a VM. For all you know, maybe he preferred to speak with you directly to convey his interest and to ask you out again and maybe he thought leaving a VM would have sounded cold-hearted and impolite. Only he knows his reasons. But, instead of waiting for him to follow up, you're deducting "points" against him because his failure to leave a VM did not meet your uncommunicated preferences and expectations. If he acts like this mutlple times and if it is that important to you that the person you are dating leaves you a VM when they call, then it is your responsibility to communicate that to him and see how he responds. If he then continues to not leave a VM, it may be that you two have imcompatible communcation styles.

 

Ok so I went ahead and texted him that I enjoyed spending time with him but feel we are better off as just friends. He replied back 15 minutes later that he is fine with that. He said he enjoyed spending time with me too and thinks I'm an amazing person and hope we can still hang out. How ironic, just when I thought I didnt want to see him because he doesnt make me feel amazing.

 

So it turns out that he actually thinks you're amazing, but instead of being happy, you're rejecting him. Don't you think having a guy who thinks you're amazing is much better than having a guy leave you a VM when he calls? The irony here is that while you're deducting points because his communications skills don't meet your preferences/expectations, you have not communicated your own preferences/expections to him regarding communcations between the two of you.

 

I think it's actually sad that you're giving up on him over something that you do not know the reason why he did not leave a message. Yes, he would have been better off to have left a VM, but for whatever reason he did not, but why reject him for that? You have a guy who actually is interested and thinks you are amazing, and yet you reject him. I realize you were on the fence because of other factors, but since the VM issue is what your initial post was about, I get the impression that the VM issue was a deciding factor for you.

 

Why not give him another chance and this time communicate to him that you would prefer that he leave you a VM when he calls?