When they try to reconcile...

[wheelwright]

A lot of posters have been saying there is a difference between healthy transparency and 'stalking' like PI work. And I'd agree.

 

Perhaps the difference relates to the state of trust and honesty in the M pre-A. Like if BS knows WS is basically an honest person who finds it difficult to lie and gaslight, simple transparency is enough.

 

If the WS has a history of cowardice and lies, then sure, the BS needs to know they have totally changed their ways before they stop tracking them like some rodent. They KNOW their spouse, after all.

 

Transparency is not hard, nor is additional attention to the details of your life irksome for an honest WS post DDay. I would hate it however if my H (a BS) took to checking my phone every hour, or pried into my emails without informing me. In this case it would be his current distrust (earned or not) which would make the M fail. As I am a generally honest person, despite two cracks at infidelity in our 19 year long R, H trusts my word. He has never had me lie to his face despite these infidelities (which cannot be said for him to me), and that goes a long way. He knows if I say nothing happened, or there was no flirtation, then it is the truth. He knows he may ask me anything and I will reply honestly. And no excuses, but that any tendency to dishonesty occurs when I lie through omission to save his hurt (or that of others). He also knows I have revised the way I think about this sort of omission dishonesty behaviour.

 

That's not to say we will reconcile. But it won't be this issue that might stop us.

[silktricks]

I think that is the case where the issue/s that led to the "cheating" have not been addressed, and resolved. I certainly do not check up on my H - if I thought I needed to check up on him, I wouldn't want to be with him. And, likewise, he doesn't check up on me. We both know that the possibility of "cheating" exists - we've lived through that - but we also know that it's less likely if we take good care of the R and of each other, and if we keep up those good R habits we developed from the outset which led to our learning to love each other and wanting to be together.

 

It's different when talking about rebuilding a marriage where one has been cheated on than it is building a marriage between two people who have cheated together. The first requires a redevelopment of trust that has been completely destroyed, the second can have some shaky moments, but there is already a level of trust between the two people based on their shared secrets.

 

I personally doubt that any marriage that has weathered infidelity could be truly rebuilt into an actual partnership where at least some level of "checking up" isn't performed. There must be a basis for renewed trust. If "trust" is just given, not earned, the trust isn't really based on anything. That's one of those good concepts that fall apart in real life, IMO.

[September]

Most likely, what you are observing on whatever site you are reading are folks who have had more recent experience with infidelity.

 

Not really, these are posters that are anywhere from 6 months to 5 years out from D-Day and there are tonnes of them.

The bitterness and anger that they still harbor is really awful. In a couple of situations, I have read posts where the xOW has died or been in an accident and they all cheer it on!

This is why I much prefer this forum

[Owl]

I'm 6+ years past d-day. Recovery isn't even "underway" for my marriage at this point. We're RECOVERED.

 

Nothing but good juju at this point. It's a marriage like any other...somedays we're so "in synch" it's amazing, some days we don't seem to agree on anything. But the good days out number the bad days by about an order of magnitude.

 

Her EA is way in the past. I don't "check up" on her at all. Don't look at her phone or records (she pays the bills), don't know any of her passwords, nor do I feel a need to do so.

 

I have learned quite a bit from what we went through, and so has she.

[chalkfarm]

My xMM went back home to a highly jealous wife after 5 months of separation. No D-day.

 

Throughout their 7 year R and M, she never trusted him. She spied and regularly accused him of infidelity. He made all email and phone records available for her in an attempt to ease her mind. He was never unfaithful until the jealousy finally pushed him away. And no, I don't believe he lied to me about previous As.

 

I understand the need for full transparency after D-day but 7 years of it? And with a "reconciliation" in the works, the years could keep dragging on.

 

Perhaps, their situation is one of cowardice and fear. I have no doubt that there is love in the M but I can't help wondering about self respect...

 

All the emotional pain on my end is making me blabber....

[bentnotbroken]

For the 1st couple of years, much of this is probably true - and for some people it may be true, period. Unlikely, though as a relationship such is you describe is not worth being in forever. One of them will eventually throw in the towel. But for anywhere from 2 to 4 years is pretty normal for recovery time, and during those 2 to 4 years, yes, a lot of questions will be asked, a lot of scrutiny will take place. If the fWS can't take it, then they shouldn't have attempted the recovery. They destroyed the trust of their spouse, and confidence and trust take a long time to rebuild. Usually longer to rebuild than to build in the first place.

 

However, trust can be rebuilt. Love really can conquer all and forgive all.

 

OW often write here that the marriage will never be the same after an affair, and I don't understand why they would think that either the fBS or the fWS would want it to be the same. If it's the same that it was pre-affair, that is not a good thing. That is what led to the affair. The marriage must be better than it was, otherwise it's just another problem hurtling down the road towards you.

 

We are 6 years post D-Day. Our marriage is better than good. It's excellent. I don't question my husband, and haven't for years. I trust him and he trusts me. We love each other. What happened in the past was sad, but it's past. No one is perfect, not him and not me. But together we get closer to perfect.

 

 

Beautiful post.

[piscis]

(((((Gfkr2)))))

 

And when the cost outweighs the benefit, and we RECOGNIZE that, we finally cut ties.

 

I think as an OW that the costs outweights the benefit almost since the begining of the R the problem is that some people needs days, other weeks or onths and sadly some years to finally RECOGNIZE it, and when you are able o recognize that cutting the ties is easier so much easier.

 

Great post WF and I am sorry for what you have been through and glad you can now talk about it and know you are in a better place.

Hugs!!!

[Nappeal]

My XH A led to a D...he's now ended up married w the OW. I had found other evidences of As, or attempts of them, throughout the years, all w different women. Every email or text message I found, made me feel lower and lower and that much more hurt. Initially after I found out about the fullblown A, he wanted to reconcile; I did not. No, I did, but I couldn't get over it. I knew he'd always think about her, I knew he loved her, and I couldn't play second fiddle to a man I had 2 children w when there was no guarantee he'd stay w me. Doing that to yourself in sacrifice of the M is pure and total hellish torture; worse then if you just said fk it and gave up.

[fooled once]

In the same way the OW/OM put themselves through it, over and over and over. Ultimatums, promises, this time it will be different, this time they'll choose me.

 

Of the two I can better understand and rationalise the potential of a BS flogging a dead horse (perhaps) than an OW. Ironically.

 

 

I agree Silly.

 

I also kinda wonder how a OW knows what goes on in the home of the cheater and the BS.... are they 'guessing' at what goes on, are they believing the stories the cheater tells them, etc.

 

No one knows except the 2 people IN the marriage - not the outside party looking in, hoping to get the leftovers. So before suggesting that all the BS does is play detective and how the cheater is so miserable and unhappy, how about looking at why the cheater stays. Let's try to figure out why this terribly unhappy guy, who has the love of his life on the side, doesn't leave the wife and run happily into the arms of the woman who has been waiting in the wings for him

 

Why does he keep going home, to the wife, begging forgiveness, begging for a second chance, etc. Why doesn't he sever the ties and just be happy with that woman he cheated on his wife with??? :confused:'

 

Let's not discuss the wife's self respect unless we are willing to examine the OW's self respect, okay? All those that throw stones at the wife, the one who he married, the one he possibly had children with, the one HE won't leave....examine why you are okay being the hidden secret, not introduced to his kids, not invited to Thanksgiving dinner with his family; ask why he continues to keep you as a secret, the back up plan and doesn't instead make you a priority, the main course. Why do you accept so little when it is the whole enchilada that you want

 

Great post Silk!!!

[OWoman]

Or one person creates a pattern of "sharing what they want to" at some point so that they can engage in behavior that needs to be concealed from their spouse.

 

This was partly what I had in mind with my comment about the learning that "some things are not for sharing". If someone feels - for whatever reason, real or imagined - that something they are thinking or feeling would elicit a response they couldn't deal with, they're likely to withhold it, IMO. So whether it's a perceived message that they're boring their partner with minutiae of their day, or experiencing the illicit thrill of feelings they imagine their partner would not be sympathetic to - they learn to suppress the spontaneous desire to share those. And create the seeds of an unhealthy dynamic.

 

It's different when talking about rebuilding a marriage where one has been cheated on than it is building a marriage between two people who have cheated together. The first requires a redevelopment of trust that has been completely destroyed, the second can have some shaky moments, but there is already a level of trust between the two people based on their shared secrets.

 

I've not been betrayed, nor have I been in the "shared secrets" situation, so I can't comment from experience on either, but from reading here it would appear that many - if not most - OWs have also experienced significant assaults on the trust in their Rs with their MMs, through betrayals and let-downs and broken promises of one kind or another. From reading here, the rebuilding of trust with a newly-free MM in a post-A R is an exercise not dissimilar to that of rebuilding trust in a post-A M, perhaps a difference of degree rather than of quality, IDK.

 

I personally doubt that any marriage that has weathered infidelity could be truly rebuilt into an actual partnership where at least some level of "checking up" isn't performed. There must be a basis for renewed trust. If "trust" is just given, not earned, the trust isn't really based on anything. That's one of those good concepts that fall apart in real life, IMO.

 

This seems similar for those OWs who land up with their MMs after As which have also been plagued by disappointments and distrust. And for at least some, that abiding mistrust finally eats away at their investment in the post-A R, until they also walk away.

 

My intention wasn't to minimise the hard work required in reconciling a M post-A; rather, it was to flag the similar requirements in ANY post-A R with the WS, whether it involves the BS or someone else. The WS needs to confront and overcome whatever led them to engage in an A in the first place, and to show their partner (be it BS or OW) that they have done so, if the new R (be it M or R or anything else) is to be sustainable and not founder on the rocks of distrust and suspicion.

[Owl]

My xMM went back home to a highly jealous wife after 5 months of separation. No D-day.

 

Throughout their 7 year R and M, she never trusted him. She spied and regularly accused him of infidelity. He made all email and phone records available for her in an attempt to ease her mind. He was never unfaithful until the jealousy finally pushed him away. And no, I don't believe he lied to me about previous As.

 

I understand the need for full transparency after D-day but 7 years of it? And with a "reconciliation" in the works, the years could keep dragging on.

 

Perhaps, their situation is one of cowardice and fear. I have no doubt that there is love in the M but I can't help wondering about self respect...

 

All the emotional pain on my end is making me blabber....

 

 

The fact that you say that there was no "d-day" might be the reason she remained so suspiscious and distrusting.

 

Without d-day, I wonder if he was ever honest/transparent about what occurred? I'm guessing here...but if he never gave her the full truth, she probably still knew that "something" was wrong even though she didn't have the full facts.

 

So she continued to dig and snoop trying to get those facts.

 

Again, it's a guess. But I've seen it before...the 'paranoia' is increased when the BS knows that they don't have the full truth/full disclosure...and they work even harder to get that information. If they'd have had a d-day, and full disclosure was made...she might have been more able to regain her trust.

[ladydesigner]

Occasionally, I have a look at another website forum which is predominatley used by BS's. In reading their reconciliation forum, I have noticed that there doesn't appear to be too many people doind so well and appear to be very unhappy, even after a couple of years into R.

 

What I have observed is;

 

BS's always have to play detective, constantly ask the WS about the affair, always question their whereabouts, check their phones and emails.

 

WS's constantly have to answer BS's never ending questions about the affair, try incredibly hard to make up for their wrong doing and are and will be forever under "surveillance"

 

My question is. Why do people keep putting themselves through this misery? It would be emotionally exhausting and drive me crazy!

 

Well I have to say. I did a little bit of this so-called policing for about 3 months and it just was not ME. I finally stopped. I trust my H even though he has not been completely transparent, but then neither have I. I guess I have just chalked this whole thing up to not communicating enough or listening to each other enough prior to the A's. Now we are a much stonger M. We have the communication, the listening, the passionate sex, and my H is obviously where he wants to be otherwise he would be with his xOW. If he cheats again he knows where he stands. I know I will not be cheating in the near future (a revenge affair learned the hard way). There are no guarantees for any M or any relationship and I don't worry anymore about the future or how it will play out. I am living my life to the fullest, enjoying watching our children grow up, and have a new appreciation for my H even though he cheated on me. I forgive him. I'm no longer hurt over it and I am not taking any of it personally. I have a healthy self-esteem now and I don't think anyone is going to be breaking that anytime soon. I do believe in healthy reconciliations and not all of them are miserable.

 

I agree with the posters who say they would not take the M back prior to the A. My M started out great went through a few turbulent periods, but I would much rather have the M I have now. I feel we are much stronger than we were before. And like I said there are no guarantees. If my H ever strays again then he knows the consequence and all I would ever want is for both of us to be happy.

[chalkfarm]

The fact that you say that there was no "d-day" might be the reason she remained so suspiscious and distrusting.

 

Without d-day, I wonder if he was ever honest/transparent about what occurred? I'm guessing here...but if he never gave her the full truth, she probably still knew that "something" was wrong even though she didn't have the full facts.

 

So she continued to dig and snoop trying to get those facts.

 

Again, it's a guess. But I've seen it before...the 'paranoia' is increased when the BS knows that they don't have the full truth/full disclosure...and they work even harder to get that information. If they'd have had a d-day, and full disclosure was made...she might have been more able to regain her trust.

 

I should have been more specific. MM has been with W for 7 years (married 3). I was with him for 1 year-ish. Her jealousy was entrenched from day 1 of their relationship. So he had been dealing with 7 years of distrust and jealousy with no basis until this last year. I hate to call her issues delusional as that sounds so judgmental on my part and I don't know her side of the tale..... I do know that her jealousy did NOT ramp up when I was in the picture as it was already high from 7 years of mistrust.

 

I assume that her jealousy comes from something within herself (previous relationship wrongs, fears, getting older) not from the present relationship. As I stated before, he was not unfaithful until he came into contact with me. And to all those who believe that he would have lied about his past to me, he had absolutely no reason to. Of course he could have....

 

I simply don't understand how someone lives like that - both the person overwhelmed with endless feelings of jealousy and the one constantly editing life and watching for the next accusation.

 

This is where I believe cowardice comes into play. When my MM went back home after 5 months of separation - easier to deal with familiar pain (going home) than with the pain of the unknown (potentially being "alone" and having to really face himself and "own his s**t"). Of course, going home takes courage but ONLY if he faces his issues. From what I read (Road Less Traveled), most people can't and won't do the hard work. Meaning they once again, fall into a broken but livable M.

 

I look at this M and think how great it is to answer to no-one. And of course, the psycho part is - I miss him terribly.

[ladydesigner]

I should have been more specific. MM has been with W for 7 years (married 3). I was with him for 1 year-ish. Her jealousy was entrenched from day 1 of their relationship. So he had been dealing with 7 years of distrust and jealousy with no basis until this last year. I hate to call her issues delusional as that sounds so judgmental on my part and I don't know her side of the tale..... I do know that her jealousy did NOT ramp up when I was in the picture as it was already high from 7 years of mistrust.

 

I assume that her jealousy comes from something within herself (previous relationship wrongs, fears, getting older) not from the present relationship. As I stated before, he was not unfaithful until he came into contact with me. And to all those who believe that he would have lied about his past to me, he had absolutely no reason to. Of course he could have....

 

I simply don't understand how someone lives like that - both the person overwhelmed with endless feelings of jealousy and the one constantly editing life and watching for the next accusation.

 

This is where I believe cowardice comes into play. When my MM went back home after 5 months of separation - easier to deal with familiar pain (going home) than with the pain of the unknown (potentially being "alone" and having to really face himself and "own his s**t"). Of course, going home takes courage but ONLY if he faces his issues. From what I read (Road Less Traveled), most people can't and won't do the hard work. Meaning they once again, fall into a broken but livable M.

 

I look at this M and think how great it is to answer to no-one. And of course, the psycho part is - I miss him terribly.

 

Why do OW believe this? A MM cheating lies to everyone. A cheater PERIOD lies to everyone. Me included.

[LilyBart]

I also kinda wonder how a OW knows what goes on in the home of the cheater and the BS.... are they 'guessing' at what goes on, are they believing the stories the cheater tells them, etc.

 

Well, I kinda wonder how the BS knows what's going on between the two AP's? The BS is just 'guessing', no? It could be “just about sex”, it could “mean nothing”, it could have just “happened once” – OR it could be a lot more than sex, it could mean something pretty special and it could have been going on for the entire length of the M. I’m just sayin’……

 

No one knows except the 2 people IN the marriage - not the outside party looking in, hoping to get the leftovers. So before suggesting that all the BS does is play detective and how the cheater is so miserable and unhappy, how about looking at why the cheater stays. Let's try to figure out why this terribly unhappy guy, who has the love of his life on the side, doesn't leave the wife and run happily into the arms of the woman who has been waiting in the wings for him

 

And no one knows what goes on in an A except the 2 people IN the affair.

 

As for the "outside party looking in, hoping to get leftovers" - HOW DO YOU KNOW? The fact is, you don't. I think a lot of BS’s assume the OW is “hoping to get leftovers”. And granted, some OW do. But NOT ALL.

 

What you don’t realize is there are some OW who like their R as it is because they get the BEST PART of the MM. The MM is never in a bad mood, they’re always the gentleman, they’re always “on their best behavior” and the OW gets treated like a princess to boot (dinners, presents, week long vacations).

 

Some people have no idea the deliciousness of this set up and why the OW choose it.

 

And if the OW likes the set up as it is, post DDay (if it ever happens), the MM will find a way to continue the R. He will find a way to “come back to her” – he won’t be able to resist…like a moth to a flame. He’ll just get better at covering up his tracks.

 

Why does he keep going home, to the wife, begging forgiveness, begging for a second chance, etc. Why doesn't he sever the ties and just be happy with that woman he cheated on his wife with??? '

 

Maybe because he knows the OW wouldn’t want to deal with him “like that”. Or the MM thinks it’s easier to deal with the devil he knows (ie. the W who puts up with his s***). Or because he knows the W will always take him back despite his transgressions (easy) and the OW will not (difficult)?

 

Let's not discuss the wife's self respect unless we are willing to examine the OW's self respect, okay? All those that throw stones at the wife, the one who he married, the one he possibly had children with, the one HE won't leave....examine why you are okay being the hidden secret, not introduced to his kids, not invited to Thanksgiving dinner with his family; ask why he continues to keep you as a secret, the back up plan and doesn't instead make you a priority, the main course. Why do you accept so little when it is the whole enchilada that you want

 

I’m not going to discuss the W’s self respect – but let me just say, there are a million and one reasons why HE won’t leave. Unfortunately “love” being only one of the considerations. Whereas if he DOES leave “love” is the ONLY reason. Yes, statistically, the MM doesn’t leave. But it’s not always necessarily because he “loves the W more”. Sometimes it’s easier to stay where you are (especially if the BS is willing to take you back) and have your “happiness” on the side.

 

Like I said, some MM are like moths to a flame when it comes to their OW....

[Confused4Now]

Why do OW believe this? A MM cheating lies to everyone. A cheater PERIOD lies to everyone. Me included.

AGREED...that is why I left my marriage and eventually left my A...I couldn't live my life on lies. I built this house of cards with my AP and I knew it would come crumbling down at any moment. It was just easier for me to leave both situations. It's so nice not having to keep hiding things. ugh

[chalkfarm]

Of course he could have lied to me. I said that. I have no doubt that information was withheld which IS a form of lying. Withholding info about our A, was effectively a lie to his W. Also, we talked about a few of his past relationships and they could have been APs for all I know.

 

Also, the guilt that I saw him struggling with seemed quite genuine and is one of the likeliest reasons (and I am sure there are many more including loving his W) that he went home....

 

The "why do all OW believe that their AP don't lie" is just a line. And I'm not sure that this "line" isn't designed to make OW/OM feel like idiots under the guise of revealing the "truth" to them.... My reality and my perception of reality is mine, seen though my eyes, and filtered through my experiences. We ALL lie to one extent or another. We ALL lie.

[ladydesigner]

Of course he could have lied to me. I said that. I have no doubt that information was withheld which IS a form of lying. Withholding info about our A, was effectively a lie to his W. Also, we talked about a few of his past relationships and they could have been APs for all I know.

 

Also, the guilt that I saw him struggling with seemed quite genuine and is one of the likeliest reasons (and I am sure there are many more including loving his W) that he went home....

 

The "why do all OW believe that their AP don't lie" is just a line. And I'm not sure that this "line" isn't designed to make OW/OM feel like idiots under the guise of revealing the "truth" to them.... My reality and my perception of reality is mine, seen though my eyes, and filtered through my experiences. We ALL lie to one extent or another. We ALL lie.

 

I'm sorry I just hate for ANYONE who is stuck believing in something that may or may not be true, that is all. I am a BS and an xOW and I have both heard and told the lies. Just coming from experience. I don't think they are just lines. I truly think that the WS is lying to everyone including themselves. Yes you are right WE ALL LIE to some extent or another.

 

Hearing OW saying that the MM is not lying to them, well that is a little naive in most cases, not all, but most. I for one will never allow myself to be in that position again to decipher whether something that is being said to me is tru or not.

[bentnotbroken]

I should have been more specific. MM has been with W for 7 years (married 3). I was with him for 1 year-ish. Her jealousy was entrenched from day 1 of their relationship. So he had been dealing with 7 years of distrust and jealousy with no basis until this last year. I hate to call her issues delusional as that sounds so judgmental on my part and I don't know her side of the tale..... I do know that her jealousy did NOT ramp up when I was in the picture as it was already high from 7 years of mistrust.

 

You can't be specific about something you don't really know about. If this is true he has been dealing with jealousy and mistrust for 7 years...what has she been dealing with? Did you ask her? Did you find out if there was a reason for her to be jealous and not trust him? Did he contribute to this situation by doing before what he is doing with you? Come on really. If you are going to make a life decision like you are doing, make it with all the facts in front of you and don't depend on the word of a liar as the truth.

 

 

I assume that her jealousy comes from something within herself (previous relationship wrongs, fears, getting older) not from the present relationship. As I stated before, he was not unfaithful until he came into contact with me. And to all those who believe that he would have lied about his past to me, he had absolutely no reason to. Of course he could have....

 

It could possible be something that has always been a part of her. And it could be something that was born in her relationship with the cheater she is married to. And as grandma used to say when we would be gossiping about someone..."if you weren't the bed or the pillow, you don't who he was sleeping" The only point you are sure of is when he was sleeping with you. The only reason he needed to lie was because he could to gain whatever goal he wanted to reach without telling the truth.

 

I simply don't understand how someone lives like that - both the person overwhelmed with endless feelings of jealousy and the one constantly editing life and watching for the next accusation.

 

You don't have to understand it. It isn't your marriage or your life. I am sure she doesn't understand others feeling it is okay to step into the middle of her life without her permission...yet here you are .

 

This is where I believe cowardice comes into play. When my MM went back home after 5 months of separation - easier to deal with familiar pain (going home) than with the pain of the unknown (potentially being "alone" and having to really face himself and "own his s**t"). Of course, going home takes courage but ONLY if he faces his issues. From what I read (Road Less Traveled), most people can't and won't do the hard work. Meaning they once again, fall into a broken but livable M.

 

Cowardice came into play when he didn't tell his wife he wanted to leave before he became involved with someone else. It came into play when he feed you the standard line of 90% of those who cheat. Yes, he should face himself....maybe in mirror mounted to the front of.....well you get the jest. We agree broken people do have broken marriages(they contribute at least 50%) and if they don't face their issues and work to correct those...they only add to the pain already there.

 

I look at this M and think how great it is to answer to no-one. And of course, the psycho part is - I miss him terribly.

 

Married people in healthy relationships don't mind answering to, understanding, considering, respecting and honoring their partners..this dude is a long way from that. And you miss him???? Unhealthy actions and all.

Edited August 13, 2010 by bentnotbroken

[chalkfarm]

You can't be specific about something you don't really know about. If this is true he has been dealing with jealousy and mistrust for 7 years...what has she been dealing with? Did you ask her? Did you find out if there was a reason for her to be jealous and not trust him? Did he contribute to this situation by doing before what he is doing with you? Come on really. If you are going to make a life decision like you are doing, make it with all the facts in front of you and don't depend on the word of a liar as the truth.

 

You are right. I don't know her side of story as I have said. Also, he is presently my xMM. I should have stated that from the start.

 

 

 

It could possible be something that has always been a part of her. And it could be something that was born in her relationship with the cheater she is married to. And as grandma used to say when we would be gossiping about someone..."if you weren't the bed or the pillow, you don't who he was sleeping" The only point you are sure of is when he was sleeping with you. The only reason he needed to lie was because he could to gain whatever goal he wanted to reach without telling the truth.

 

Since my loss of the MM is really quite fresh, I feel the need to hold onto what others see absolute lies. I need to see his proclaimed love for me as genuine albeit not as strong as that for his wife. Without that, I become an even greater fool than I fear I am. Right now, I CAN'T believe everything was a lie to get my affection. Perhaps later. Just not now.

 

 

 

You don't have to understand it. It isn't your marriage or your life. I am sure she doesn't understand others feeling it is okay to step into the middle of her life without her permission...yet here you are .

No, there I was. My lack of understanding is aimed mainly at the OP's thread about why people put up with the pain of reconciling. I understand that many Ms make it through the hell of reconciling and come out the other side better. I also understand that many people stay in unhappy Ms because that is comfortable.

 

 

 

Cowardice came into play when he didn't tell his wife he wanted to leave before he became involved with someone else. It came into play when he feed you the standard line of 90% of those who cheat. Yes, he should face himself....maybe in mirror mounted to the front of.....well you get the jest. We agree broken people do have broken marriages(they contribute at least 50%) and if they don't face their issues and work to correct those...they only add to the pain already there.

 

After much thought (and not from these postings), I see that my xMM was and is a coward all round. Not simply because of the A and not simply because he went back home. But all round. In most aspects of his life. Afraid to leave a job he hates, afraid to stand up to his first xW, afraid, afraid, afraid. Oddly, he portrays himself as very much an alpha male.

 

 

Married people in healthy relationships don't mind answering to, understanding, considering, respecting and honoring their partners..this dude is a long way from that. And you miss him???? Unhealthy actions and all.

 

Yes, I miss him. I miss our connection as 99% of the xOW posting on LS do. The loss feels enormous and the wound very fresh. It is terribly unfair to belittle my feelings of abandonment whether the R was unhealthy or not.

[chalkfarm]

Yes, I miss him. I miss our connection as 99% of the xOW posting on LS do. The loss feels enormous and the wound very fresh. It is terribly unfair to belittle my feelings of abandonment whether the R was unhealthy or not.

 

And of course, it WAS unhealthy.

[bentnotbroken]

You are right. I don't know her side of story as I have said. Also, he is presently my xMM. I should have stated that from the start.

 

Your posts spoke of placing all the blame at her feet...at least at the beginning. That's why I responded in segments. Good to know the "x" applies to him.

 

 

 

Since my loss of the MM is really quite fresh, I feel the need to hold onto what others see absolute lies. I need to see his proclaimed love for me as genuine albeit not as strong as that for his wife. Without that, I become an even greater fool than I fear I am. Right now, I CAN'T believe everything was a lie to get my affection. Perhaps later. Just not now.

 

Needing to hold on to something that is so demeaning to you as a woman and a human...I don't get. You need you to love you, not his lies. Fool....we all are at some point in life. It is part of learning who you are and what you will accept. There was a song (many moons ago) "EVERYBODY PLAYS THE FOOL, SOMETIME...no exceptions to the rule" Whether we like it or not it happens. OM/OW, BS, WS.

 

 

 

No, there I was. My lack of understanding is aimed mainly at the OP's thread about why people put up with the pain of reconciling. I understand that many Ms make it through the hell of reconciling and come out the other side better. I also understand that many people stay in unhappy Ms because that is comfortable.

 

And he stays because his wife doesn't know the extent to which he is lying to her. He won't give her the chance to kick him out this time...because I would bet money he has done this before. Not saying this to hurt you, just saying his actions are speaking loud and clear. And I don't believe most people stay in unhappy marriages. They stay because there is payoff. When things aren't working to uplift you and you aren't getting anything out of it anymore...you leave. There is proof of that from all angles on here BS/WS.

 

 

 

 

 

After much thought (and not from these postings), I see that my xMM was and is a coward all round. Not simply because of the A and not simply because he went back home. But all round. In most aspects of his life. Afraid to leave a job he hates, afraid to stand up to his first xW, afraid, afraid, afraid. Oddly, he portrays himself as very much an alpha male.

 

 

That's where taking your time and getting to know someone extensively comes into play. That doesn't mean that you still won't be lied to, but it lowers the chances. It gives you time to check inconsistancies and histories.

 

 

Yes, I miss him. I miss our connection as 99% of the xOW posting on LS do. The loss feels enormous and the wound very fresh. It is terribly unfair to belittle my feelings of abandonment whether the R was unhealthy or not

.

 

Not only am I not belittling your feelings or telling you that you dont have a right to those feelings. What I am saying is you are dealing with a man who murders(over the top and dramatic...yes I know this)respect, the truth, trust, and his relationship with his wife and children. Would you still feel that way if he murdered them literally. The power of life and death is in the tongue and he used his to kill many aspects of others life.

[fooled once]

Well, I kinda wonder how the BS knows what's going on between the two AP's? The BS is just 'guessing', no? It could be “just about sex”, it could “mean nothing”, it could have just “happened once” – OR it could be a lot more than sex, it could mean something pretty special and it could have been going on for the entire length of the M. I’m just sayin’……

 

LOL -- the BS doesn't KNOW that is why it is called an AFFAIR. Maybe if the cheater was more HONEST (I know, I know -- that is foreign to a cheater) and told his wife he was cheating.... but for the majority of affairs, the WIFE has NO IDEA he is cheating. IF she finds out, and questions him, he throws his mistress under the bus, telling her how the mistress wouldn't leave him alone and she means nothing to him.

 

 

And no one knows what goes on in an A except the 2 people IN the affair.

 

That's true - because the cheater chose to be a coward and instead of ending his marriage, he cheated. Shows he lacks courage, integrity and morals.

 

As for the "outside party looking in, hoping to get leftovers" - HOW DO YOU KNOW? The fact is, you don't. I think a lot of BS’s assume the OW is “hoping to get leftovers”. And granted, some OW do. But NOT ALL.

 

I know this because I was once an OW I know you thought I was a BS, but I have never been one. I was stupid, thoughtless to others and selfish and chose to carry on with a MM for 2 years. Then I woke up and realized I wanted more. I didn't want to be just a side thing. Dinners and trips don't make a relationship to me. I wanted a FULL TIME man, someone to go to sleep with every night and someone to wake up with every morning (not just for a long weekend). I wanted someone to share my life with and plan a future with. And I found that ... and been much happier since the A ended. I have a TRUE man, a gentleman, a lover, a friend, someone to spoil me every single day (and not just send me a cute text or leave me a voicemail ) I got the true deal and am luckier than any woman alive.

 

What you don’t realize is there are some OW who like their R as it is because they get the BEST PART of the MM. The MM is never in a bad mood, they’re always the gentleman, they’re always “on their best behavior” and the OW gets treated like a princess to boot (dinners, presents, week long vacations).

 

You do not have the best of him ... you have a make believe person. You have someone on their best behavior ... you have a faker. You are an option, not a priority. He doesn't care enough about you to want to have a life with you.

 

And if you like your affair the way it is, why are you here? To put down BS's? To flaunt that you are f*ucking a MM? Big deal...that isn't hard to do.

Some people have no idea the deliciousness of this set up and why the OW choose it.

 

That's actually pretty rare I have found that there are women out there who ONLY want the sex and material things. MOST women are emotional and fall in love and want the cheater to themselves. There are some out there who are basically glorified prostitutes, but for the most part, women who engage in affairs fall in love and want the man for themselves; they tire of being an after thought, getting sloppy seconds, being hidden and not a true part of the cheater's life.

 

And if the OW likes the set up as it is, post DDay (if it ever happens), the MM will find a way to continue the R. He will find a way to “come back to her” – he won’t be able to resist…like a moth to a flame. He’ll just get better at covering up his tracks.

 

Big deal. So the guy comes back. He STAYS with the wife though and like a moth to a flame, he returns home each and every night to the woman he married.

 

Maybe because he knows the OW wouldn’t want to deal with him “like that”. Or the MM thinks it’s easier to deal with the devil he knows (ie. the W who puts up with his s***). Or because he knows the W will always take him back despite his transgressions (easy) and the OW will not (difficult)?

 

Maybe all he wants from the OW is the thrill of secret kinky sex? Maybe he doesn't want anything else from her, which is why she stays the hidden (possibly embarrassing) secret?

 

I’m not going to discuss the W’s self respect – but let me just say, there are a million and one reasons why HE won’t leave. Unfortunately “love” being only one of the considerations. Whereas if he DOES leave “love” is the ONLY reason. Yes, statistically, the MM doesn’t leave. But it’s not always necessarily because he “loves the W more”. Sometimes it’s easier to stay where you are (especially if the BS is willing to take you back) and have your “happiness” on the side.

 

And you know this how? He stays because he wants to. He stays because he knows who has his heart. He stays because he is a coward. He stays because he really doesn't want the OW full time. he stays because that is the choice he makes.

 

Like I said, some MM are like moths to a flame when it comes to their OW....

 

My responses in bold and italics. Like a moth to a flame, he returns home to the wife.

[LilyBart]

And he stays because his wife doesn't know the extent to which he is lying to her. He won't give her the chance to kick him out this time...because I would bet money he has done this before. Not saying this to hurt you, just saying his actions are speaking loud and clear. And I don't believe most people stay in unhappy marriages. They stay because there is payoff. When things aren't working to uplift you and you aren't getting anything out of it anymore...you leave. There is proof of that from all angles on here BS/WS.

 

Really?

 

I know PLENTY of people who stay in an unhappy marriage (and by that definition I mean they're NOT HAPPY but the M isn't hideous enough to justify leaving). They do it because the fear of the alternative is worse.

 

I guess maybe the payoff is that at least they have "facade" of being married. And the social acceptance of being married and they can present an intact family unit to relatives and friends. Plus by staying M they don't have to lose half of everything they've worked for (if they're the breadwinner) or losing their lifestyle (if they're not).

 

But no, they're not really, truly, happy. Sad actually. And people wonder why A's happen. It's because the WS feels they deserve "a little bit of happiness" and are willing to grab what little they can.....in whatever form they can.

[chalkfarm]

 

Needing to hold on to something that is so demeaning to you as a woman and a human...I don't get. You need you to love you, not his lies. Fool....we all are at some point in life. It is part of learning who you are and what you will accept. There was a song (many moons ago) "EVERYBODY PLAYS THE FOOL, SOMETIME...no exceptions to the rule" Whether we like it or not it happens. OM/OW, BS, WS.

 

Loving me right now would be great. But I can't just make it happen any more than I can make the thoughts of him disappear. I work everyday to make my life better but the healing that I so deserve moves at a glacial pace. The best part of having the time without him, is the chance for realization. Realization of what I want and deserve, realization of what I am willing to deal with, realization of who he really is, realization that some of this pain probably comes from my relationship with my father. The "fool" within me feels all encompassing right now and my personality type doesn't deal well with failure and set backs. I can easily make them disproportionate. This is something I am working on.

 

 

 

 

 

And he stays because his wife doesn't know the extent to which he is lying to her. He won't give her the chance to kick him out this time...because I would bet money he has done this before. Not saying this to hurt you, just saying his actions are speaking loud and clear. And I don't believe most people stay in unhappy marriages. They stay because there is payoff. When things aren't working to uplift you and you aren't getting anything out of it anymore...you leave. There is proof of that from all angles on here BS/WS.

 

I don't know if he cheated before. I simply don't know and honestly, I don't care. Before reading all of the BS postings, I suggested he not tell her about the A. This was not a selfish suggestion or at least not consciously selfish, as I would have assumed that her knowing about the A would have ended the M completely putting him in my life in the manner that I then wanted. Also, outing me would have made no difference to me and my situation. I suggested it because it seemed she didn't deserve more hurt than their separation caused. At some point I felt his job within a soon to be reconciled M was to cause no further pain. But reading that BS want to know everything, I see my advice was wrong. She deserves to make a decision based on ALL of the facts. Please note: the advice was solicited.

 

 

 

That's where taking your time and getting to know someone extensively comes into play. That doesn't mean that you still won't be lied to, but it lowers the chances. It gives you time to check inconsistancies and histories.

 

Obviously, I thought I knew him. And perhaps I do. Only he really knows.