Treat them like dirt and they stick to you like mud?

[Tim7332]

Perhaps you're aim is a little off??

 

I have heard this time and time again from men and women. I think the error lies in the seeker.

 

What do you mean by this?

[SadandConfusedWA]

I'm 30 years old now. I would've thought it would be better at this point.

 

Then you should try to actively work on it.

[Tim7332]

Then you should try to actively work on it.

 

I am. However, when you have terrible **** ups like I did with this girl it doesn't help.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I am. However, when you have terrible **** ups like I did with this girl it doesn't help.

 

 

Maybe you just picked the wrong girl. I know when I am really into a guy who is not into me as much, I go through similar feelings that you are describing.

 

When you meet a girl that is truly interested in you, everything will just flow.

[Gattica]

Maybe bad boys are simply better looking and/or super confident. Girls will bang great looking confident guys, regardless of niceness. They won't stay for long though if they are treated like c%%p.

 

I will disagree. The last guy I dated was one of the most physically attractive men I have ever seen and I wanted to have sex with him...but his lack of respect for me was a big turn off and I couldn't get beyond making out with him.

 

I see him quite often (not as in dating, just that I actually see him around work) and if the only factor was physical attraction...I would sleep with him any day, but it takes a lot more than that for me to sleep with a man.

 

On a side note: The man I almost married was a nice guy. He wasn't at all boring, but he was a nice person and he had confidence. Things aren't so black and white...cut and dry.

[Dblock10]

i agree with a lot of what has been posted, some really interesting points.

 

well i have been in contact with my date (she initiated the conversations) i asked to take her out again when was she free. no reply lol..

[InceptorsRule]

Hey, the worst a fat non-psycho girl like me can do is sit on you.

 

Well I can't speak for anyone else but I happen to like it when girls sit on me.

[dispatch3d]

Ahhhhh.

 

It's not that you are nice (at all), it's that the girl wasn't attracted to you in the first place. And "nice" or not has nothing to do with chemistry; it's either there or it's not.

 

Girls want nothing more than for guy they are attracted to to treat them nicely.

 

I wrote about a guy here with whom I had great chemistry from the start. I was very excited about him. But week after week, he was proving to be more and more of a jerk. It killed all my attraction to the point that when he touched me; I felt nothing. Now if he has been nice and kind to me; I would be on my way to being in love with him by now.

 

The way I see it; say you start liking girl A. She is hot and smart. You are very attracted. You start pursuing her. She gives you wishy/washy answers, sometimes flakes, sometimes not. You hang in there and keep trying. You ignore the fact that she sometimes doesn't reply to your texts or your calls. You tell yourself "I knew it, I am too nice to her".

 

Actually what happened here is that the girl was never attracted to you. She had a problem with directly rejecting you and tried to avoid you hoping you would get the hint. You however, didn't. It has nothing to do with the girl. You are making yourself a doormat. What you should have done is, after a couple of time where she clearly disrespected you say to yourself "no more" and stop pursuing her in any way. And no, this won't make her run after you, but will help you keep your confidence and self respect.

 

The problem is not that your niceness is a turn off, the problem is you picked a girl that isn't attracted to you and didn't know when to cut your losses.

 

this paraphrased can be basically "being a nice guy is great and what all girls want"

 

This is exactly what I say to guys I AM NOT attracted to but beleive they are nice enough people so I am hoping that the spark will happen later if I keep hanging out with them. It never does.

 

I am not sure how old you all are (I am 31) and when I talk to the girls at work they always talk about nice things their BFs did for them. Tim took my dog to the vet, Jim made me soup when I was sick etc etc. And all girls go awwwww

 

Maybe bad boys are simply better looking and/or super confident. Girls will bang great looking confident guys, regardless of niceness. They won't stay for long though if they are treated like c%%p. Maybe if they are 18 or have serious issues.

 

lol seriously? Like seriously did you just do a total 180 in 6 posts?

 

of all the people to take advice from. Sorry to cut into you so hard but girls get sooooo defensive when guys say they are useless for help. WTF is with your thought process. You say one thing and then COMPLETELY switch sides.

 

To summarize being nice DOESNT WORK. When considering whether you should or shouldn't do something "nice" for a girl, mostly stick with NOT the nice thing.

[Lady vs Panda]

this paraphrased can be basically "being a nice guy is great and what all girls want"

 

The problem here, I'm afraid, is actually your reading comprehension.

 

Sad is talking about attraction, which exists outside of niceness or not-niceness. It paraphrases to something more like, girls want the men they are attracted to to be nice to them, but being "nice" is not enough to make a woman attracted to you.

 

In another post she adds that sometimes women will have sex with someone they are very attracted to, even if they are not nice, but if they're not nice they usually won't stay with them very long i.e. there will be no 'successful relationship,' because a lonely woman with a healthy self-esteem and libido might have sex with a sexually attractive man, but then leave him when he turns out to be a jerk. If he had turned out to be a great guy, she wouldn't leave, and would instead doodle their names together on her PeeChee folder and dream about riding off into the sunset and making a dozen little babies.

 

This is not really so mysterious.

 

Sad's still talking about basic attraction being a third entity, not being wrapped up and inextricable from "nice" and "not-nice".

 

I find it interesting that when you have trouble figuring out nuances in a woman's post, you leap directly into cutting her down and generalizing about "girls". You probably don't have to worry too much about being "too nice," so if you are still not successful with females, what will you blame it on now?

[Thierro]

Dispatch3d?

 

It sounds to me like you have some personal issues. You seem very bitter and angry when it comes to the whole girl-guy thing. I wonder what got you all so defensive.

[SadandConfusedWA]

The problem here, I'm afraid, is actually your reading comprehension.

 

Sad is talking about attraction, which exists outside of niceness or not-niceness. It paraphrases to something more like, girls want the men they are attracted to to be nice to them, but being "nice" is not enough to make a woman attracted to you.

 

In another post she adds that sometimes women will have sex with someone they are very attracted to, even if they are not nice, but if they're not nice they usually won't stay with them very long i.e. there will be no 'successful relationship,' because a lonely woman with a healthy self-esteem and libido might have sex with a sexually attractive man, but then leave him when he turns out to be a jerk. If he had turned out to be a great guy, she wouldn't leave, and would instead doodle their names together on her PeeChee folder and dream about riding off into the sunset and making a dozen little babies.

 

This is not really so mysterious.

 

Sad's still talking about basic attraction being a third entity, not being wrapped up and inextricable from "nice" and "not-nice".

 

I find it interesting that when you have trouble figuring out nuances in a woman's post, you leap directly into cutting her down and generalizing about "girls". You probably don't have to worry too much about being "too nice," so if you are still not successful with females, what will you blame it on now?

 

Thank you. This is exactly what I meant. Niceness and attraction are too separate things.

 

Also, as someone else pointed out - some girls when breaking up with a guy will use an old cliche - "you are nice/great/amzing guy, but I don't think it would work out between us" - or similar. They do it to soften the blow just like when people say "let's stay friends". It doesn't mean that they actually think that the guy is nice/great/amzazing in all cases.

 

I also find it bizzare that some guys in this thread think that they are "Too nice" and this is their main problem in dating. Yet, they obviously display behaviour here that is FAR from nice.

 

To put it more bluntly this is how I think:

 

Not attracted to the guy and he is a jerk = won't date him at all

 

Not attracted to the guy and he is nice = will date him for a short while to see if attraction will develop

 

Attracted + he is a jerk = will date him for a short while then leave when his jerkiness becomes obvious.

 

Attracted + nice guy = WIN, will have a LTR. Rainbows and bunnies

[Blade Runner]

I think SadandConfusedWA has it pretty close. Although I'm not sure how many other women would share this one:

 

Not attracted to the guy and he is nice = will date him for a short while to see if attraction will develop[/Quote]Anyway, here's the thing. First of all, if you're an amazingly attractive looking guy, the kind that would turn heads every single place you went, you could be any personality in the entire world and a girl would still fall for you. Unless you're a complete and utter ******* at the first date, somebody will fall head over heels over you, and it'll be too late before they find out if you're a jerk or not. Not too late, but you know, after feelings develop it makes things complicated.

 

If you're an average looking guy at best, and also "nice", you can still get dates. But here's the thing. Nice is too broad, too messy, too overused a term for us to know what it really stands for. In the dating world, we refer to "nice guys", as guys who are really "sweet" and "cute". The "nice guy" is that guy who wants to be friends first, and hang out forever and ever, and go shopping with you, and then text you about how beautiful you are that day.

 

Now as its been said in this thread -- if there's no attraction to begin with here, you're completely out to a lot of women. You're boring. You're an average joe. You're not "nice", you're just what they call a "nice guy".

 

Now a nice GUY on the other hand, is just a guy that's nice. He might not do all the things a so called "nice guy" would do, but he's still a decent, sincere guy. This guy is a popular choice but unfortunately, given all the terminal "nice guys" out there, he is hard to spot. And that's where the problem begins.

 

Now I can see what happens. Some average guy who thinks he's really sweet is following around a girl. She feels bad for him, texts him, likes his company but doesn't want to date him. Then suddenly a mysterious guy comes around who doesn't text her all the time, who doesn't do the things the "nice guy" has been doing, doesn't compliment her all the time, but flirts, jokes around, is a little stand offish. If he's sort of attractive, the girl might go for him. Because he's exciting. Feelings can develop pretty quickly if there's a whole package involved.

 

Bottom line yes there has to be some kind of attraction but being a more unpredictable, exciting individual can fast track 'em a bit if you're not the best looking guy in the world.

 

It's not about being an *******. It's about being interesting. And you can't fake it.

 

Look, we all have friends who are women/girls who say "My boyfriend is such an *******". And hell, the "nice guys" are the ones wiping away the tears before she goes back home to have sex with the ******* again. And it's not because she went out seeking an ******* (though I'm sure some people out there do), it's because jerks often have popular qualities initially.

 

Your typical bad boy might be a fairly attractive guy, maybe nothing special but he's got an attitude. He's not predictable. He flirts but he's not over the top. He doesn't compliment her hair. He has his own life. He doesn't seem to care much -- and that's the thing, if you think too much, you probably project it onto other people. Jerks don't think through scenarios and rub it off on other people.They just act. They're wild, spontanious.

 

So for a first date, or first encounter, a woman isn't seeing a jerk. She's seeing somebody who's kind of interesting. How would she know he's a real *******? He's just a little edgy...but wait three months, he's a total *******. At that point she's probably "in love" with him. I see this all the time. She could leave any second she wanted to but it gets a little more complicated because the guy has his moments.

 

This is where "You don't see him when it's just US" comes in.

 

It just comes down to this -- if you're an average joe, dresses average, looks average, has an average job - why should she date you, when she could date the mysterious stranger in the corner? Or the musician? It'd probably be better for her to date you but you're boring! And I don't blame 'em. It's not about being an *******. It's about being interesting. If you're not, make yourself interesting.

 

Sure there will be women who date really nice guys, guys who compliment her 10000 times a day and shop with her and basically do everything right off the bat. There are women who specifically want this type of behaviour. But for the most part, you'll find a little edgyness can't hurt one bit.

 

It can't be the PUA book stuff though. That's too fake. It works for some people but you really have to work on yourself to the point where it's not just reading a book. It's improving yourself. It's saying, Okay, what can I do to myself to make myself more appealing to women?

 

Or people in general. 'Cause that's really the thing. People notice extremes. They don't notice the middle lines so much.

 

Attraction can develop a lot faster if you've got an edge. Not being like everyone else gives you that extra boost, and somebody might give you a chance that otherwise wouldn't have. Maybe.

 

Then again you might run into somebody that says to hell with all of that, let's get it on, big boy. And there you go. That would be just fine.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Blade Runner

[SadandConfusedWA]

The definition of "nice" can be a bit iffy.

 

I can see what blade is saying. But what he describes as "nice", I would probably describe as needy/clingy. That is definetly not attractive. To me, nice is more to do with being kind and compassionate. With having good core values as in not cheating, not lying, doing what you say you will do etc. Being boring or interesting is a different personality trait. I sure would prefer a nice guy that is interesting to the nice guy that is boring (all else being equal).

[Mad Max]

All I can say is I'm nice, but I have my own life. I'm not needy, clingy, or boring. I do things with my life and it works. Simply put, don't be boring and have a backbone. "Nice guys" make the process so difficult when it's quite simple.

[skydiveaddict]

I've been called all these things. If it were so simple I would have figured it out by my age. I have to be perfect and I don't even know if that's enough.

 

 

You have it down gamma. Girls simply will not fall for a "nice guy". It's a fact of life. You will do fine if you keep that in mind.

[zengirl]

The most attractive sort of man to a kind, healthy woman is an assertive, kind man. I believe the most attractive woman to a healthy, kind, assertive man is a healthy, kind woman who knows what she wants. (I'm not so sure men put as much value on assertiveness as women, as men have to assert themselves more in the normal dating process and an attractive woman can be more passive if she likes; though being assertive has only ever helped me.)

 

Now that assumes that, on top of all the other qualities you see, you want someone healthy and kind. If you don't want someone healthy and/or kind, then this is moot. (I am pretty sure that makes you unhealthy and/or unkind yourself, though. So, yes, stay away from healthy, kind women/men.)

 

This is the theory I've formulated: If you treat unhealthy people (this works for women and men!) like crap and they happen to be attracted to you and have thrown their emotional **** onto you like you're some kind of object to center their own personal pain around, they will stay at it. Not treating them terribly removes the whole pain center thing, and they find another way to go deal with their ****. Generally, even those that stay around when you're mean won't stay if they ever deal with their **** and become healthy, or if they do stay, it's through a battle both parties engaged in that evolved both people. Sometimes that happens with two unhealthy people.

 

I believe the best way to improve your dating life is to do everything possible to be healthy and kind and not be attracted to women/men who are unhealthy and kind. But to each their own.

 

Treat a man/woman like crap to get them to stay. You've found a man/woman who in book isn't worth having. Or, as Dorothy Parker said in the Lady's Reward:

 

And if that made you happy, Kid,

You'd be the first it ever did.

[skydiveaddict]

All I can say is I'm nice, but I have my own life. I'm not needy, clingy, or boring. I do things with my life and it works. Simply put, don't be boring and have a backbone. "Nice guys" make the process so difficult when it's quite simple.

 

 

See? even you contradict yourself. At first you describe yourself as a "nice guy". Yet in your last sentence you say '"Nice guys" make the process so difficult when it's quite simple' Are you part of that "difficult process" or are you in reality not such a nice guy after all?

[Cracker Jack]

I believe when people quote "Nice guys", it's mainly in reference to the self-proclaimed ones, who have a ton of other issues aside from simply being too nice.

[skydiveaddict]

I believe when people quote "Nice guys", it's mainly in reference to the self-proclaimed ones, who have a ton of other issues aside from simply being too nice.

 

 

I would agree with that.

[Mad Max]

See? even you contradict yourself. At first you describe yourself as a "nice guy". Yet in your last sentence you say '"Nice guys" make the process so difficult when it's quite simple' Are you part of that "difficult process" or are you in reality not such a nice guy after all?

 

 

I didn't say I was a nice guy. I said I was nice. I am a good guy. I'm nice mixed in with good guy qualities. I didn't contradict myself. Being nice and being a "nice guy" are different. It works for me and that's all I can tell you.

[skydiveaddict]

I know that but I'm not doing anything close to fine. I'm getting older and it's hard to even imagine a woman being interested in me.

 

 

It's all in you attitude my friend. Hit the weight room, hang out with your friends. Go to places where you will meet women. Believe in yourself. You CAN do it. You only get one shot in this life. Make every second count. Lose your fear and go for it. I know you can do it. So it's friday nite, get off this silly website and go find yourself a girl. Report back tomorrow. Now get going

[skydiveaddict]

I didn't say I was a nice guy. I said I was nice. I am a good guy. I'm nice mixed in with good guy qualities. I didn't contradict myself. Being nice and being a "nice guy" are different. It works for me and that's all I can tell you.

 

 

Well I'm glad it works for you. You have broken the nice guy mold.

[Mad Max]

Well I'm glad it works for you. You have broken the nice guy mold.

 

 

I didn't break anything. Treating a girl like dirt will not work in the long run. A girl with an ounce of self-respect won't stick around. It's really not a difficult concept. Don't be boring, don't be a pushover. I don't see what's so hard to get.

[dispatch3d]

The problem here, I'm afraid, is actually your reading comprehension.

 

Sad is talking about attraction, which exists outside of niceness or not-niceness. It paraphrases to something more like, girls want the men they are attracted to to be nice to them, but being "nice" is not enough to make a woman attracted to you.

 

In another post she adds that sometimes women will have sex with someone they are very attracted to, even if they are not nice, but if they're not nice they usually won't stay with them very long i.e. there will be no 'successful relationship,' because a lonely woman with a healthy self-esteem and libido might have sex with a sexually attractive man, but then leave him when he turns out to be a jerk. If he had turned out to be a great guy, she wouldn't leave, and would instead doodle their names together on her PeeChee folder and dream about riding off into the sunset and making a dozen little babies.

 

This is not really so mysterious.

 

Sad's still talking about basic attraction being a third entity, not being wrapped up and inextricable from "nice" and "not-nice".

 

I find it interesting that when you have trouble figuring out nuances in a woman's post, you leap directly into cutting her down and generalizing about "girls". You probably don't have to worry too much about being "too nice," so if you are still not successful with females, what will you blame it on now?

 

being nice definitely hurts your chances. I"m verrrry sure of this. There are lots of very nice good looking guys who are held back by being nice. It just kills the attraction. The fact there are "nuances" in womens posts/thoughts is why guys get so frustrated trying to take advice by looking for the minidetails.

 

I lean towards being too much of a dick. Don't really have any of the too nice problem anymore. (shocker)

[dispatch3d]

I didn't break anything. Treating a girl like dirt will not work in the long run. A girl with an ounce of self-respect won't stick around. It's really not a difficult concept. Don't be boring, don't be a pushover. I don't see what's so hard to get.

 

girls will definitely stay in a ****ty relationship where they are treated like dirt for longer than they will stay in a ****ty relationship where the guy is too nice.... well I guess I should say as far as the guy is concerned (considering if he's too nice she'll just stop sexing him).