Corporal Punishment?

[Tayla]

I disagree with the illogical reasoning that its okay.

 

Parents do not get to dominate, erase that double standard.

[Clep]

IMO as the main job of a parent is to guide their children through the early years of life and teach them things like self reliance, discipline and a place of self in the universe etc, the use of any form of hitting, spanking etc is fine.

 

As long as 2 things are absolutley gauranteed on the part of the parent.

 

First : this is the most appropriate form of lesson.

 

Second: the administration of the physical pain is NOT in ANY way shape or form done from frustration or anger on behalf of the parent, but thoughtfully and measured.

 

If both these rules don't apply then as far as I'm concerned the adult should get 10x this physical punishment themselves from all the adults around them.

 

What I have put in bold is the part that many don't cannot seem to comprehend.

 

I agree with this post wholeheartedly.

[Minnie09]

So, was the spanking some form of foreplay? Does it follow that if you spank you will have sex with a child? No, it does not! Those poor kids were not spanked they were abused.

 

I am glad that they went on to have lives of their own, many never recover. I am glad that the woman mentioned held to what she believed too.. good for her.. but I do not agree that a blanket conclusion can be drawn from what you have said.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

What I was saying is that they live normal lives, outwardly, despite their sexual abuse. That doesn't mean they are OKAY on the inside. Same applies to physically abused children when they become adults.

 

Are you saying that spanking is not abuse? Really?

[Clep]

What I was saying is that they live normal lives, outwardly, despite their sexual abuse. That doesn't mean they are OKAY on the inside. Same applies to physically abused children when they become adults.

 

 

In my experience with sexual abuse survivors is that they do not appear normal outwardly unless they have dealt with the effects of that abuse.

 

They have certain behaviors that are very apparent, if one knows what those look like. Even if they don't know, one can see behaviors that probably should be addressed but may not know it was sexual abuse that is the root of those behaviors.

[Eve]

What I was saying is that they live normal lives, outwardly, despite their sexual abuse. That doesn't mean they are OKAY on the inside. Same applies to physically abused children when they become adults.

 

Are you saying that spanking is not abuse? Really?

 

I don't think I can make myself any clearer.

 

I can only take it that the bolded statements are a form of colloquialism on you part and not really about the discussion point I challenged.

 

H'mmm... unless you mean that spanking causes internal damage to children once they are adults, but spanking was not mentioned in your post, sexual and physical abuse was.

 

I have agreed that abuse of any kind is wrong, everyone here has. So I do not understand why you then focus almost entirely on the sexual abuse within the example. In fact, I don't know why you are using such a dysfunctional family setting as an example of corporal punishment at all?

 

Can you see why I cannot comprehend that the woman in question was spanked?

 

BTW, you only have to say, 'nah, I don't spank because I don't agree with it' and I would say, 'cool'. Personally, I am trying to work out why people feel the need to objectify so much within clear cut situations that don't require this.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Eve]

Anyhow, I have to draw a line under this now.

 

I would be interested in hearing from posters who were spanked because of a discipline issue, such as running into the road etc and grew up to have serious psychological problems.

 

All else is a form of concern mixed heavily with conjecture and is disrespectful to the serious and often permenant damage done to people who have suffered real abuse at the hands of those meant to care and nurture them.

 

.. What needs to stop is this victim mentality that is so prevalent nowadays and shock tactics to get attention.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[donnamaybe]

Parents do not get to dominate

Parents MUST dominate in whatever form works for each child, or you will raise children who think they can do whatever the hell they want.

[KikiW]

Again, I think the conversation will go nowhere, but like others I do not appreciate being told I am a sadist or abuser because I stopped my daughter from doing something dangerous with a swat on the rear.

 

I get the impression that some people who were severely abused in their past see spanking as the "gateway drug" - the marijuana of the abuse world. They equate that with the first step to full on pummeling. Perhaps to that person, it was. But that happened to THEM, not to everyone else.

 

I was spanked as a child, and I had a lot of emotional problems but I KNOW the two are not related. My issues were due to my parents divorce and how that was handled... it reflected for many years in my internal protective barriers. It had NOTHING to do with me getting a spanking because I swung the cat around in circles by his front legs (kitty turned out ok, my butt was sore for 10 minutes, and I NEVER DID IT AGAIN).

 

And someone mentioned how parents shouldn't "control" their children - I disagree. Parents (not ABUSERS, I mean real parents) HAVE to control their children. It's their job to provide children with set boundaries. It's their job to dole out consequences if they push too hard against those boundaries.

 

Ugh, I wish I hadn't gotten back into this thread. It's not going anywhere new.

[BlackLovely]

IMO as the main job of a parent is to guide their children through the early years of life and teach them things like self reliance, discipline and a place of self in the universe etc, the use of any form of hitting, spanking etc is fine.

 

As long as 2 things are absolutley gauranteed on the part of the parent.

 

First : this is the most appropriate form of lesson.

 

Second: the administration of the physical pain is NOT in ANY way shape or form done from frustration or anger on behalf of the parent, but thoughtfully and measured.

 

If both these rules don't apply then as far as I'm concerned the adult should get 10x this physical punishment themselves from all the adults around them.

As someone who was beat senseless, for silliness such as asking for a certain hairstyles, I completely agree with this post.

My mother beat me while she was very angry, often right when she came home from her awful factory job. Sometimes it was because I wept when she would tell me that I was "so black no man would ever want me" or "you're going to be a whore when you grow up!" I was so nervous that I couldn't follow her instructions. She would get frustrated, scream and berate me about being a "effing retard." I will never forget the day that she kicked me away from the fridge, when I couldn't find something she asked for fast enough.

If the hitting wasn't for childlike mistakes and it wasn't so brutal, I would be able to forgive my mother. That monstrous bitch also beat me because I resembled my aunt, whom she hates. My mother's eyes would blaze with anger as she strangled me, growling "You look just like her...."

It was never discipline. It was an angry and unhappy parent abusing their power over a child.

I know that this is part of the reason I choose not to become a mother. I don't want to risk hurting my own kids, when this is what I have been exposed to. Most who have been abused go on to abuse their own children. I'm not taking this risk since I have anger management problems.

[PDeverit]

People used to think it was necessary to "spank" adult members of the community, military trainees, and prisoners. In some countries they still do. In our country, it is considered assault and battery (sexual battery at that) if a person over the age of 18 is "spanked", but only if over the age of 18.

 

Child bottom-slapping/battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

 

Child bottom-slapping/battering (euphemistically labeled "spanking","swatting","switching","smacking", "paddling",or other cute-sounding names) for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

 

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

 

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping/battering isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

 

Plain Talk About Spanking

by Jordan Riak

http://www.nospank.net/pt2010.pdf

 

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children

by Tom Johnson

http://nospank.net/sdsc2.pdf

 

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say

by Lesli Taylor MD and Adah Maurer PhD

http://nospank.net/taylor.htm

 

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child bottom-slapping/battering isn't a good idea:

 

American Academy of Pediatrics,

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,

American Psychological Association,

Center For Effective Discipline,

Churches' Network For Non-Violence,

Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,

Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,

Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,

United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child.

 

In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

 

The US states with the highest crime rates and the poorest academic performance are also the ones with the highest rates of child corporal punishment.

 

There is simply no evidence to suggest that child bottom-slapping/battering instills virtue.

[donnamaybe]

Gee, just who COULD this brand new poster be?

[Minnie09]

I was spanked as a child, and I had a lot of emotional problems but I KNOW the two are not related. My issues were due to my parents divorce and how that was .......

It had NOTHING to do with me getting a spanking because I swung the cat around in circles by his front legs (kitty turned out ok, my butt was sore for 10 minutes, and I NEVER DID IT AGAIN).

 

I like that example. I was never ever, not even once, spanked, slapped (or whatever euphemism you may choose) as a child. And you know what? I never abused animals. Probably just a coincidence, but hey, I just wanted to mention that. My son has never been spanked by anyone, either. He has a wild temper at times (3 yrs old), but he would never hurt an animal. He knows it's wrong. Neither would he try to lay a hand on one of his friends. I wonder why.

 

Oh, and aren't the spanker-parents those who constantly have to YELL at their kids that they're not supposed to hit? Are those parents for real?

 

CP has to be made illegal, like in every civilized country.

[donnamaybe]

My son has never been spanked by anyone, either. He has a wild temper at times (3 yrs old), but he would never hurt an animal. He knows it's wrong. Neither would he try to lay a hand on one of his friends. I wonder why.

Um, my son had his butt spanked on a few rare occasions, and I NEVER had an issue with him hitting anyone. I have NEVER gotten a call or letter from school that he misbehaved. He's now 17 and very emotionally healthy.

 

He has never had a "wild temper." I wonder why...

[GorillaTheater]

I find myself wanting to spank Minnie's kid. And then kick a poodle.

 

Odd.

[donnamaybe]

I find myself wanting to spank Minnie's kid. And then kick a poodle.

 

Odd.

You know, I haven't spanked anyone in a LOOOONG time. Seems YOU could do with a little corporal punishment.

[GorillaTheater]

You know, I haven't spanked anyone in a LOOOONG time. Seems YOU could do with a little corporal punishment.

 

Do it baby. Then we can find some baby ducks to step on.

[donnamaybe]

Do it baby. Then we can find some baby ducks to step on.

Ooo, what fun! We'll lure them in with the promise of bread...

[amerikajin]

As someone who was beat senseless, for silliness such as asking for a certain hairstyles, I completely agree with this post.

My mother beat me while she was very angry, often right when she came home from her awful factory job. Sometimes it was because I wept when she would tell me that I was "so black no man would ever want me" or "you're going to be a whore when you grow up!" I was so nervous that I couldn't follow her instructions. She would get frustrated, scream and berate me about being a "effing retard." I will never forget the day that she kicked me away from the fridge, when I couldn't find something she asked for fast enough.

If the hitting wasn't for childlike mistakes and it wasn't so brutal, I would be able to forgive my mother. That monstrous bitch also beat me because I resembled my aunt, whom she hates. My mother's eyes would blaze with anger as she strangled me, growling "You look just like her...."

It was never discipline. It was an angry and unhappy parent abusing their power over a child.

I know that this is part of the reason I choose not to become a mother. I don't want to risk hurting my own kids, when this is what I have been exposed to. Most who have been abused go on to abuse their own children. I'm not taking this risk since I have anger management problems.

 

Yeah, what you're describing here is abuse, not discipline. The spankings I've seen used effectively are those that are, in actuality, rarely used, but used just enough to make the threat of a spanking real and unpleasant to think about.

 

People might bring up the fact that adults don't spank each other -- true. But isn't that stating the obvious, and isn't that also acknowledging that there is a fundamental difference in the relationships between two adults and a child-parent relationship?

 

I would agree that there are better ways to deal with children than to spank them. Ideally, parents wouldn't ever do it. But sometimes a little swat on the butt has a shock value. I remember once getting spanked with a flat ruler on the leg after I had deliberately lied to my mother when I was in 5th grade. I wasn't physically in any kind of pain whatsoever, but I could hear the crack of the ruler hitting the skin. It sounded awful. Psychologically, it was devastating to know that I had made her that upset. But the point was made, and I think it was at that point that I was a bit more forthcoming about things. In short, it worked. It straightened me out. Could she have done it in other ways? Sure, but it would have been different mentally. I think children sometimes do need to fear their parents. Psychologically, the child brain is wired differently than the adult brain.

[Dexter Morgan]

As a father I finally understand when a parent says to their child when getting ready to spank them, "this is going to hurt me worse that it is going to hurt you"

 

and its true!! it takes a breaking point for me to spank my kids.

 

but never will I spank them out of anger, or do anything but spank on the butt. I have patience, but there are times when time out or grounding simply don't work.

 

Now all I have to do is stand up, give them the "your getting ready to be spanked" look, and that takes care of the behavior.

[KikiW]

I like that example. I was never ever, not even once, spanked, slapped (or whatever euphemism you may choose) as a child. And you know what? I never abused animals. Probably just a coincidence, but hey, I just wanted to mention that. My son has never been spanked by anyone, either. He has a wild temper at times (3 yrs old), but he would never hurt an animal. He knows it's wrong. Neither would he try to lay a hand on one of his friends. I wonder why.

 

Oh, and aren't the spanker-parents those who constantly have to YELL at their kids that they're not supposed to hit? Are those parents for real?

 

CP has to be made illegal, like in every civilized country.

 

Excuse me, fark you for insinuating that I was deliberately abusing my darling kitty. As a 3 year old, I was imitating the image of children being spun in circles by their parents, like an airplane and laughing. I wasn't doing it at top speed in an effort to cause harm. In my young mind, I thought I was doing something fun for him. Obviously I know NOW that it was stupid and dangerous thing to do, but as a toddler I had no idea. I didn't swing the cat around BECAUSE I got spanked, I swung the cat around and THEN I got spanked.