Interesting article about the nature of marriage, cheating, longevity of love, etc.

[spriggig]

/RANT

 

Re: The article: Screw it, I'm done with relationships. Considering my age, increasingly high standards and general apathy toward the whole idea, a LTR with another woman isn't going to happen anyway. Why should I put months or years of effort into finding another "the one" only to have her flit off on some hormone-bathed butterfly-chasing fantasy with another man in a few years? Yeah, guys can't keep their johnson in their pants, but they sure don't have any trouble finding a place to put it.

 

This board is littered with men who have tried EVERY angle to please their women, all for naught. Women cannot be pleased once the butterflies leave. That is ALL they live for, the "true love" of butterflies--once the "honeymoon phase" is over they get antsy and start blaming the man and looking around.

 

And don't think I don't see the irony of a man spouting off on what used to be exclusively a woman's rant. So, did men "get what they deserve"? Perhaps, but so will women at this rate. Women are going to find out that the life of a cougar is just as hollow as the life of a playboy.

 

So, at this end of this, I think this is probably just a cyclical thing. Likely, we'll burn out on this polyamory, chasing butterflies, no attachment, FWB crap in a couple of decades and try something else, like polygamy.

[Distant78]

/RANT

 

Re: The article: Screw it, I'm done with relationships. Considering my age, increasingly high standards and general apathy toward the whole idea, a LTR with another woman isn't going to happen anyway. Why should I put months or years of effort into finding another "the one" only to have her flit off on some hormone-bathed butterfly-chasing fantasy with another man in a few years? Yeah, guys can't keep their johnson in their pants, but they sure don't have any trouble finding a place to put it.

 

This board is littered with men who have tried EVERY angle to please their women, all for naught. Women cannot be pleased once the butterflies leave. That is ALL they live for, the "true love" of butterflies--once the "honeymoon phase" is over they get antsy and start blaming the man and looking around.

 

And don't think I don't see the irony of a man spouting off on what used to be exclusively a woman's rant. So, did men "get what they deserve"? Perhaps, but so will women at this rate. Women are going to find out that the life of a cougar is just as hollow as the life of a playboy.

 

So, at this end of this, I think this is probably just a cyclical thing. Likely, we'll burn out on this polyamory, chasing butterflies, no attachment, FWB crap in a couple of decades and try something else, like polygamy.

 

Agreed. Amen to that.

[karnak]

/RANT

 

Re: The article: Screw it, I'm done with relationships. Considering my age, increasingly high standards and general apathy toward the whole idea, a LTR with another woman isn't going to happen anyway. Why should I put months or years of effort into finding another "the one" only to have her flit off on some hormone-bathed butterfly-chasing fantasy with another man in a few years? Yeah, guys can't keep their johnson in their pants, but they sure don't have any trouble finding a place to put it.

 

This board is littered with men who have tried EVERY angle to please their women, all for naught. Women cannot be pleased once the butterflies leave. That is ALL they live for, the "true love" of butterflies--once the "honeymoon phase" is over they get antsy and start blaming the man and looking around.

 

And don't think I don't see the irony of a man spouting off on what used to be exclusively a woman's rant. So, did men "get what they deserve"? Perhaps, but so will women at this rate. Women are going to find out that the life of a cougar is just as hollow as the life of a playboy.

 

So, at this end of this, I think this is probably just a cyclical thing. Likely, we'll burn out on this polyamory, chasing butterflies, no attachment, FWB crap in a couple of decades and try something else, like polygamy.

 

All this behaviour is called immaturity. Back in the time of our grand-mothers, times were rough and people had to have plenty of common sense in order to survive and live a decent life.

 

Unfortunately our capitalist/ consumer-oriented society has made us too lazy, too irresponsible and with the notion that we don't need to work hard to obtain things. We've created a society of grown, irresponsible childs.

 

Some decades ago, women complained that we treated'em like trash, sex objects or slaves. Now that they have equal rights, instead of trying to show us men that they were superior to us, they have become worse than us.

 

You're right, Spriggig... things will change. Probably for the worse for women. And I suspect men will again treat women like ****, like in the old days. Things move in circles.

[goodgrief]

Good article.

[WalkInThePark]

The key to all this seems: "emotional commitment - how affectionate and understanding husbands were - was the most important factor in wives' happiness"

 

Well, for me that is the key in a relationship. And if I am still single, it is because I have not found this to be sufficiently present in my past relationships...

[Gfkr2]

I am generally an optimist when it comes to ALL women and relationships. That my StbxW was a stinker and a heavy drinker who opened her legs to a MM is HER problem.

 

I have been lucky to encounter many intelligent, kind and generous women over the years and never gave in to temptation b/c that's how good men act when they are married. More recently, I started building bridges back to some of these good women and plan to enjoy their company shortly. StbxW is aware of my speaking to them and is showing a jeolous streak which never surfaced during our entire M (smiles)

 

StbxW is going to implode when the MM refuses to leave is wife and kids for "true love". My only focus is making sure my divorce is final and the doorlocks changed to my home b/c she is not welcome. I am 99% certain she will show up at my door months down the road looking for my help to rebuild her shattered life... It ain't gonna happen. Stay strong.

[Woggle]

Unless things improve the bottom is going to fall out from under this economy and people will be forced to have some common sense again.

[Woggle]

I am generally an optimist when it comes to ALL women and relationships. That my StbxW was a stinker and a heavy drinker who opened her legs to a MM is HER problem.

 

I have been lucky to encounter many intelligent, kind and generous women over the years and never gave in to temptation b/c that's how good men act when they are married. More recently, I started building bridges back to some of these good women and plan to enjoy their company shortly. StbxW is aware of my speaking to them and is showing a jeolous streak which never surfaced during our entire M (smiles)

 

StbxW is going to implode when the MM refuses to leave is wife and kids for "true love". My only focus is making sure my divorce is final and the doorlocks changed to my home b/c she is not welcome. I am 99% certain she will show up at my door months down the road looking for my help to rebuild her shattered life... It ain't gonna happen. Stay strong.

 

Whatever you do don't take her back. She wanted this road and now she has to travel. Walkaway wives in many cases can't stand when a man lives a great life after her. It shatters their ego when they don't leave a man heartbroken and alone.

[quankanne]

Unfortunately, many happy husbands too often go on automatic pilot when it comes to romancing us in later years. Complacency kills more relationships than any other threat, IMHO.

 

Obviously, with almost 70 percent of all women filing for divorce today it is a real issue.

 

The number one cited reason? Not infidelity, drinking, gambling, job loss, illness or any other you would think....

 

Neglect. Women HATE to be emotionally neglected, minimized, or pidgeon-holed into the role of wifey, mother, and chief cook and bottle washer.

 

you guys really ought to pay attention to this poster's words, because they're right on the money. I've been married 18 years ... to the same man ... and I'll admit that I fantasize about finding someone new at times. Not because I want someone younger, someone hotter or someone who'll put out on a regular basis – it's because I'm disheartened by the fact that he expects the relationship to work without putting effort into it or making himself emotionally available. THAT is the hugest turn-off for a woman, being in a relationship with someone who emotionally abandons them while telling the world "See, I love her! I give her everything!"

 

I'm not talking about fawning all over your wife and kissing *ss, but just 20 minutes of uninterrupted time with her, just being with her. Why is that so hard for y'all to understand? Or is it just easier to hide behind macho bullshxt and complain about how awful women are just so that you don't have to make yourself available in the way it counts most?

[quankanne]

If any man wants to save his marriage he needs to let a walkaway wife go and show her that he can be happy without her. A man should love his wife but be able to live a good life without her.

 

woggle, this is probably the best advice you've ever given on this site. I think a lot of people mistakenly believe that to prove love, you've got to be submissive, but I think it's what you suggest: An individual can exist without a partner, but chooses not to simply because that other person brings something to his or her life that wouldn't otherwise be there. And it's a huge compliment knowing that someone is in the relationship for that reason, not because of some kind of pathological need.

[Mr White]

subscribed. i'm deathly afraid of getting married only to be left high and dry after i'm nothing but faithful, loving, and supportive.

 

I'm no longer afraid to get married, but the key is to be prepared for the worst (while still hoping for the best).

[Gfkr2]

Unfortunately, many happy husbands too often go on automatic pilot when it comes to romancing us in later years. Complacency kills more relationships than any other threat, IMHO.

 

Obviously, with almost 70 percent of all women filing for divorce today it is a real issue.

 

The number one cited reason? Not infidelity, drinking, gambling, job loss, illness or any other you would think....

 

Neglect. Women HATE to be emotionally neglected, minimized, or pidgeon-holed into the role of wifey, mother, and chief cook and bottle washer.

 

you guys really ought to pay attention to this poster's words, because they're right on the money. I've been married 18 years ... to the same man ... and I'll admit that I fantasize about finding someone new at times. Not because I want someone younger, someone hotter or someone who'll put out on a regular basis – it's because I'm disheartened by the fact that he expects the relationship to work without putting effort into it or making himself emotionally available. THAT is the hugest turn-off for a woman, being in a relationship with someone who emotionally abandons them while telling the world "See, I love her! I give her everything!"

 

I'm not talking about fawning all over your wife and kissing *ss, but just 20 minutes of uninterrupted time with her, just being with her. Why is that so hard for y'all to understand? Or is it just easier to hide behind macho bullshxt and complain about how awful women are just so that you don't have to make yourself available in the way it counts most?

 

And do you think the woman has the responsibility to let her H know of her hurt feelings of being neglected? It's not all about the H being the bad guy here.

 

Why is it the W fails to communicate HER NEEDS and instead wanders off looking for "true love" with an OM. Had she communicated her true feelings of being neglected and hurt he W might be pleasantly surprised to see her H is willing and eager to please her...

[spriggig]

And do you think the woman has the responsibility to let her H know of her hurt feelings of being neglected? It's not all about the H being the bad guy here.

 

Why is it the W fails to communicate HER NEEDS and instead wanders off looking for "true love" with an OM. Had she communicated her true feelings of being neglected and hurt he W might be pleasantly surprised to see her H is willing and eager to please her...

 

YES! WHY!?

 

"Oh, I feel so neglected! But, but, but, I CAN'T confront him, I have "confrontation issues!". Bah!

 

Women MUST meet men half way on this. You know what else is in the article? This:

 

One study showed midlife wives feeling especially unhappy with what they haven't accomplished in life, while midlife husbands were feeling pretty good about themselves.

 

 

The one who is unhappy needs to speak up! That would be the women. So, grow a pair and tell us what is wrong.

[goodgrief]

Women talk, men listen.

But they don't always hear.

Women give up talking because they get tired of the sound of their own voices sounding like a stuck record.

Men say they will do this that and the other, but don't follow through.

we just get fed up repeating ourselves....

 

"Women would act less like nags if men treated them more like thoroughbreds".

[quankanne]

worse yet, men think "if I do X, that'll shut her up," but really have no intention of making that one little change a permanent thing. Nope – they'll be nice for as long as it takes the woman to forget she was upset about being ignored or emotionally avoided, then slide back into the same old comfortable pattern. Because they don't want to change or improve, they just want to believe that the relationship is happy simply for the fact that they are not unhappy.

 

in all fairness, both parties are guilty of this, and it's not really a surprise to an outsider when one says "I'm not happy, I'm getting a divorce" and the other is gobsmacked. It's about a failure to effectively communicate – and by that, I mean a failure to seriously adopt changes that would help strengthen the relationship.

[Distant78]

And do you think the woman has the responsibility to let her H know of her hurt feelings of being neglected? It's not all about the H being the bad guy here.

 

Why is it the W fails to communicate HER NEEDS and instead wanders off looking for "true love" with an OM. Had she communicated her true feelings of being neglected and hurt he W might be pleasantly surprised to see her H is willing and eager to please her...

 

Exactly. Amen to that buddy.

[Distant78]

Women talk, men listen.

But they don't always hear.

Women give up talking because they get tired of the sound of their own voices sounding like a stuck record.

Men say they will do this that and the other, but don't follow through.

we just get fed up repeating ourselves....

 

"Women would act less like nags if men treated them more like thoroughbreds".

 

But if you get tired of repeating yourselves then thats what divorce is for, not screwing someone else to get your husband's attention.

[goodgrief]

When men walk, it's as a first resort.

When women walk, it's a last resort.

[goodgrief]

But if you get tired of repeating yourselves then thats what divorce is for, not screwing someone else to get your husband's attention.

I would never do that.

I agree with you.

[Distant78]

YES! WHY!?

 

"Oh, I feel so neglected! But, but, but, I CAN'T confront him, I have "confrontation issues!". Bah!

 

Women MUST meet men half way on this. You know what else is in the article? This:

 

 

 

 

The one who is unhappy needs to speak up! That would be the women. So, grow a pair and tell us what is wrong.

 

Exactly. Then when the husbands decide that they want to change, the wives say, "oh, its too late for that, and i'll just go to someone else." Its like ok then. You had your chance to get your complaints heard, so if you want to find someone else, fine. But don't come back home blamshifting your affair on me because there are divorce papers on the kitchen table waiting for you.

[Distant78]

I would never do that.

I agree with you.

 

I know, I wasn't trying to say YOU would actually do that, I was just speaking in general.

[Gfkr2]

worse yet, men think "if I do X, that'll shut her up," but really have no intention of making that one little change a permanent thing. Nope – they'll be nice for as long as it takes the woman to forget she was upset about being ignored or emotionally avoided, then slide back into the same old comfortable pattern. Because they don't want to change or improve, they just want to believe that the relationship is happy simply for the fact that they are not unhappy.

 

in all fairness, both parties are guilty of this, and it's not really a surprise to an outsider when one says "I'm not happy, I'm getting a divorce" and the other is gobsmacked. It's about a failure to effectively communicate – and by that, I mean a failure to seriously adopt changes that would help strengthen the relationship.

 

That's too overly general. I think many of us BS in the midst of divorce would have gladly changed had our WS communicated their legitimate concerns. My 26 year LTM was worth more than anything in my life, except for my daughter.

 

I would have walked 10 miles on my hands and kness to save my M if only I had known her feelings she deliberately kept away from me.

 

I am sure their are many BW and BH's who would have done anything humanly possible to save their M, including adopting life altering changes in their relationship.

[quankanne]

Then when the husbands decide that they want to change, the wives say, "oh, its too late for that"

 

at some point, you've got to admit that it's futile hitting your head against a brick wall, and that sometimes, a person just doesn't have what it takes to continue what they consider a dead relationship. Some people are more hopeful than others when it comes to that, though, and because they still value the relationship they're willing to give it a last-effort shot.

 

as for screwing around on a marriage? Sheesh, that is a total lack of respect for spouse AND for self, and incredibly selfish, to boot. I'm sorry you experienced that, dis ...

[Gfkr2]

Its called Resiliency. Some people just have more of it in a M and life in general. It is the desire to bounce back, remain optimistic and not give up on a martial problem.

 

 

My StbxW has very little resiliency and thinks the sky is falling at the slightest hint of conflict.

 

Resiliency is high on my "next one" list;)

[Distant78]

Then when the husbands decide that they want to change, the wives say, "oh, its too late for that"

 

at some point, you've got to admit that it's futile hitting your head against a brick wall, and that sometimes, a person just doesn't have what it takes to continue what they consider a dead relationship. Some people are more hopeful than others when it comes to that, though, and because they still value the relationship they're willing to give it a last-effort shot.

 

as for screwing around on a marriage? Sheesh, that is a total lack of respect for spouse AND for self, and incredibly selfish, to boot. I'm sorry you experienced that, dis ...

 

Yes, I think its safe to say that if you tried as hard as you can, and you are receiving no response from the other spouse, then leave, as in divorce. But since when does it make it ok to decide to cheat, then come back and blame the affair on the other spouse, or then decide that its time to work on the relationship, or then decide to leave (exit affair)?

 

Also, I think its still cowardly to leave a relationship/marriage as soon as the "Spark" leaves or when the first sign of trouble occurs.

 

Last week I remember reading a thread on LS about a guy who saved his wife, ended up in a coma for only 17 months (and the doctors said he wasn't even braindead), only to come back and see that his wife cheated on him, got prego, moved all of his things in their garage, recorded a sextape of her and OM in their marital bed, got engaged to him, and allowed OM to move into their home. That showed no commitment.

 

If the relationship was dead then don't go back, ever. You know that wasn't the only thing I said in my posts, your pushing it now.

 

Thank you for those kind words.