Interesting article about the nature of marriage, cheating, longevity of love, etc.

[spriggig]

Women talk, men listen.

But they don't always hear.

Women give up talking because they get tired of the sound of their own voices sounding like a stuck record.

Men say they will do this that and the other, but don't follow through.

we just get fed up repeating ourselves....

 

"Women would act less like nags if men treated them more like thoroughbreds".

 

Yes. If you want a knight in shining armor, you have to shout loud enough to get through the helmet. You want a rock of Gibraltar? You're going to have to climb a mountain to talk to the guru. Women don't like nice guys because they are too wishy-washy, but they aren't willing to meet the knights in on the field.

 

 

Kick us in the head BEFORE you feel the need to run away. It happens over and over, women speak meekly in code, men don't get it and women leave--leaving is the equivalent of kicking him in the head. THEN men get it and change for the better. Why do you have to kick us in the head? You don't think you "should have to"? See above.

 

Women would be treated like thoroughbreds if they acted like them--confident winners.

Edited August 17, 2010 by spriggig

[Thorgs]

I'm no longer afraid to get married, but the key is to be prepared for the worst (while still hoping for the best).

Sadly, this is how the world has to work these days.

[Thorgs]

I think what it all comes down to is communication and being open and honest (on both parties part). If that doesn't happen then the relationship is bound to end up in a bad situation.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Women talk, men listen.

But they don't always hear.

Women give up talking because they get tired of the sound of their own voices sounding like a stuck record.

Men say they will do this that and the other, but don't follow through.

we just get fed up repeating ourselves....

 

"Women would act less like nags if men treated them more like thoroughbreds".

 

And of course men don't listen, when they don't react/change 100% how the woman expects. Too much my way or the highway attitude. Interesting that it is often the traditional marriages where the woman is the happiest (not that I weant that).

 

Often my spouse says I don't listen, without ever wondering or thinking for a second if she too suffers that problem or is spouting as much crap as I am.....

[quankanne]

But since when does it make it ok to decide to cheat

 

when you no longer have a vested interest in the primary relationship (i.e., y'alls marriage), and it becomes something expendable. The act of a true, self-centered bxtch, dis.

 

Also, I think its still cowardly to leave a relationship/marriage as soon as the "Spark" leaves or when the first sign of trouble occurs.

 

some people cannot face reality – everything has to be picture perfect, but when something starts to wear or crumble or shift, they want out. They're not interested in the relationship for what it is, but for what it represents in their imagination.

 

Kick us in the head BEFORE you feel the need to run away. It happens over and over, women speak meekly in code, men don't get it and women leave--leaving is the equivalent of kicking him in the head. THEN men get it and change for the better. Why do you have to kick us in the head? You don't think you "should have to"? See above. :laugh: oh, I'm definitely running that by my husband when I get home this evening!

[Distant78]

But since when does it make it ok to decide to cheat

 

when you no longer have a vested interest in the primary relationship (i.e., y'alls marriage), and it becomes something expendable. The act of a true, self-centered bxtch, dis.

 

Also, I think its still cowardly to leave a relationship/marriage as soon as the "Spark" leaves or when the first sign of trouble occurs.

 

some people cannot face reality – everything has to be picture perfect, but when something starts to wear or crumble or shift, they want out. They're not interested in the relationship for what it is, but for what it represents in their imagination.

 

Kick us in the head BEFORE you feel the need to run away. It happens over and over, women speak meekly in code, men don't get it and women leave--leaving is the equivalent of kicking him in the head. THEN men get it and change for the better. Why do you have to kick us in the head? You don't think you "should have to"? See above. :laugh: oh, I'm definitely running that by my husband when I get home this evening!

 

Well those who don't have persistence and expect perfect relationships/marriages are idiots in my opinion, and whether they no longer have any investment, its still wrong morally. But who cares about morals? All they care about is whether the next guy/gal is a charmer and good in bed.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Distant78

[Spark1111]

I think the Walkaway Wife syndrome is being confused with infidelity and I think there is definitely a major difference between the two.

 

A WS, who then leaves the marriage to be with the OM, is still cheating and has many of the characterisitcs ascribed to cheating: poor communication skills, conflict avoidance issues, and low self-esteem issues to the point of needing external validation from others.

 

The Walkaway wife has usually been talking to death about what she wants to change in the relationship, and unfortunately, her husband HEARS it as criticism or nagging, grows defensive, shuts down, and absolutely nothing changes for HER.

 

She eventually stops talking, and the guy breathes a sigh of relief, erroneously believing she has settled down and now is as content as he is to sit and watch tv every night..

 

Big mistake guys! That is the one sign that we are starting to distance ourselves emotionally. That we have given up trying to be heard by you.

 

If a woman STOPS talking (nagging?) about how the two of you can have a better relationship; more romance, more foreplay; more fun, more kindness, consideration, respect...you are in the process of losing her.

 

And the next guy to tell her she's hot, sexy, WANTS to hold her hand, WANTS to talk with her all day and night, turns of the tv and turns up the music, send the flowers and the cards...cares when she cries is going to capture her.

 

Men want more physical connecting. Women live and die by their emotional connecting.

 

And I won't be bothered kicking anyone in the head to get want I want and need. I express it verbally all the time as most women do. Pay attention.

[karnak]

Men want more physical connecting. Women live and die by their emotional connecting.

 

And I won't be bothered kicking anyone in the head to get want I want and need. I express it verbally all the time as most women do. Pay attention.

 

Careful, Spark. You may be making a big mistake. I think you're confusing your emotional view of the world with how other women view and feel.

 

How old are you, Spark? I ask this because I'm in my 30's. Almost all the women my age (and younger) that I know are very poor communicators. They prefer to communicate through their bodies, I guess.

 

They prefer to engage in futile conversations. And when I guide the discussion to more profound topics they just change subject or shut off completely. Their boyfriends and husbands complain of the same.

 

Maybe they don't care enough about their men in order to even consider a deep talk with them.

[Distant78]

I think the Walkaway Wife syndrome is being confused with infidelity and I think there is definitely a major difference between the two.

 

A WS, who then leaves the marriage to be with the OM, is still cheating and has many of the characterisitcs ascribed to cheating: poor communication skills, conflict avoidance issues, and low self-esteem issues to the point of needing external validation from others.

 

The Walkaway wife has usually been talking to death about what she wants to change in the relationship, and unfortunately, her husband HEARS it as criticism or nagging, grows defensive, shuts down, and absolutely nothing changes for HER.

 

She eventually stops talking, and the guy breathes a sigh of relief, erroneously believing she has settled down and now is as content as he is to sit and watch tv every night..

 

Big mistake guys! That is the one sign that we are starting to distance ourselves emotionally. That we have given up trying to be heard by you.

 

If a woman STOPS talking (nagging?) about how the two of you can have a better relationship; more romance, more foreplay; more fun, more kindness, consideration, respect...you are in the process of losing her.

 

And the next guy to tell her she's hot, sexy, WANTS to hold her hand, WANTS to talk with her all day and night, turns of the tv and turns up the music, send the flowers and the cards...cares when she cries is going to capture her.

 

Men want more physical connecting. Women live and die by their emotional connecting.

 

And I won't be bothered kicking anyone in the head to get want I want and need. I express it verbally all the time as most women do. Pay attention.

 

The Walkaway Wife syndrome isn't being confused with infidelity, because that's one of the top reasons why so many wives walk away. You're right on the head about WSs, but not about every walkaway wife. Just because they aren't getting the attention they need doesn't mean that they need to open their legs to someone else, and then wants to come home to their BH to blameshift.

 

Also, sometimes wives ask for too much conversation/emotional connection/attention with their husbands and don't bother to think about what their husbands feelings are. To be real, sometimes husbands do want their wives to shut up for a second, or to stop prancing around, and sit down for a while so that they can think. When us men try to express ourselves (and its very hard for us), you guys end up interrupting us, saying, "can you hurry up because I have to tell you something," and thats why we shut down, hoping you'll be quiet.

 

You talk about how the next guy who pays attention to someone's wife is so romantic with flowers and stuff but of course its so romantic. Duh, its because those other men aren't in a relationship with that woman and its without the baggage of being married for years with kids, etc. Again, thats what divorce is for. Sleeping and having an emotional connection with another man WILL grab the BH's attention, but not in a good way. Sometimes filing the paperwork will get their attention, sometimes it won't do the trick and they need to just keep going with the divorce.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Distant78

[xxoo]

You talk about how the next guy who pays attention to someone's wife is so romantic with flowers and stuff but of course its so romantic. Duh, its because those other men aren't in a relationship with that woman and its without the baggage of being married for years with kids, etc.

 

Spare me the "flowers and stuff", but marriage and kids doesn't need to mean the end of being romantic and mushy together. Spending 20 minutes sharing pillowtalk in the afterglow can work wonders

 

I don't think there is one model of marriage that is a formulaic win for everyone, but "spouses as best friends" works great for us. The women in the article talk about their husbands as "no added value". Doesn't everyone need companionship and friendship? A teammate? A best friend? I wonder if the problem is that their husbands were NOT that person to them.

 

It is sad that, after realizing they don't need their husbands, these modern women conclude that they don't want them. Why not? I'd miss my best friend terribly if we were to part ways.

[Snowflower]

The Walkaway Wife syndrome isn't being confused with infidelity, because that's one of the top reasons why so many wives walk away. You're right on the head about WSs, but not about every walkaway wife. Just because they aren't getting the attention they need doesn't mean that they need to open their legs to someone else, and then wants to come home to their BH to blameshift.

 

WAW don't always commit infidelity. Sometimes they leave the marriage for the reasons Spark mentioned. There is no OM waiting in the wings, the woman is just done with the marriage.

 

Also, sometimes wives ask for too much conversation/emotional connection/attention with their husbands and don't bother to think about what their husbands feelings are. To be real, sometimes husbands do want their wives to shut up for a second, or to stop prancing around, and sit down for a while so that they can think. When us men try to express ourselves (and its very hard for us), you guys end up interrupting us, saying, "can you hurry up because I have to tell you something," and thats why we shut down, hoping you'll be quiet.

 

Okay then chalk up this difference as varying communication styles of communication between the genders.

 

I mean this most respectfully, but I don't think you're getting the point of why women want to talk when you say, "guys wish their wives would shut up for a second, stop prancing around and sit down for awhile."

 

If a guy has this attitude and its obvious, no wonder the woman eventually gets fed up with him.

 

I know I would!

 

You don't have to like how women try to communicate what they need, it might get on your nerves, but be happy if your wife/GF is trying to communicate with you! It means she cares about you and the relationship.

[Distant78]

Spare me the "flowers and stuff", but marriage and kids doesn't need to mean the end of being romantic and mushy together. Spending 20 minutes sharing pillowtalk in the afterglow can work wonders

 

 

Spare me the "20 minutes of pillowtalk in the afterglow." Sometimes after amazing sex, we ask our partners how was it, and if the answer is good, then we'll head to sleep. Trying that with us men will work wonders.

[quankanne]

hell, I'll take 20 minutes of sincere, undivided attention wherever I can get it in my marriage

 

But who cares about morals? All they care about is whether the next guy/gal is a charmer and good in bed. exactly! Someone who has already left the marriage mentally and emotionally feels their behavior is justified, even though it's hurtful to the other person ...

[Distant78]

WAW don't always commit infidelity. Sometimes they leave the marriage for the reasons Spark mentioned. There is no OM waiting in the wings, the woman is just done with the marriage.

 

Of course not all walkaway wives us OM as a crutch to get out of a bad relationship. I said earlier if she tried hard, then she can walk away knowing she did her best to find solutions to the problems.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay then chalk up this difference as varying communication styles of communication between the genders.

 

Agreed.

 

I mean this most respectfully, but I don't think you're getting the point of why women want to talk when you say, "guys wish their wives would shut up for a second, stop prancing around and sit down for awhile." If a guy has this attitude and its obvious, no wonder the woman eventually gets fed up with him. I know I would!

 

No. I get what you mean, but your saying I don't "get it" to try to force your opinion on me. I do understand that women have emotional needs, its just that if they bring up a "problem" every day, or they complain almost 24/7, then IT IS time to shut up for a while and ask their husbands how they feel. How about the women compromise their feelings for a while to say how their husbands feel, thats all. You say men need to stop having an attitude all the time, well some women need to stop complaining almost every day of the week and just chill, and not get a hissy fit when they're told to hush for one minute.

 

 

You don't have to like how women try to communicate what they need, it might get on your nerves, but be happy if your wife/GF is trying to communicate with you! It means she cares about you and the relationship.

 

I do like how women try to communicate, but just not every day where it stresses me out to the point where I want to blow up. If it means she cares about me and the relationship, she would be quiet for a while and ask me about my take on the issues. Sometimes women don't get that men can naturally sit down quietly for hours, to days at a time, and sometimes we just like to chill on the porch and feel the breeze as we look at the sunset.LOL!! That is one way to get us to connect with you.

[Spark1111]

Careful, Spark. You may be making a big mistake. I think you're confusing your emotional view of the world with how other women view and feel.

 

How old are you, Spark? I ask this because I'm in my 30's. Almost all the women my age (and younger) that I know are very poor communicators. They prefer to communicate through their bodies, I guess.

 

They prefer to engage in futile conversations. And when I guide the discussion to more profound topics they just change subject or shut off completely. Their boyfriends and husbands complain of the same.

 

Maybe they don't care enough about their men in order to even consider a deep talk with them.

 

Karnak, I do not know in what circles you travel in.

 

I travel in the realm of a long-term passionately committed relationships.

 

Looks and bodies, while a large part of attraction, would NEVER be a criterior for choosing a life partner. Nice to have, but not the main ingredient to sustain the long haul.

 

Define "profound" as in profound topics? Never mind. Find a partner that enjoys talking and doing and experiencing what you like.

 

I would NEVER marry a hot body I couldn't have a deep conversation with! That's just ludicrous to me.

[Distant78]

hell, I'll take 20 minutes of sincere, undivided attention wherever I can get it in my marriage

 

But who cares about morals? All they care about is whether the next guy/gal is a charmer and good in bed. exactly! Someone who has already left the marriage mentally and emotionally feels their behavior is justified, even though it's hurtful to the other person ...

 

Exactly!! And that is why when the BS decides to move on also... look who's here!!!! The WS knocking on my door, or calling my cellphone to see how i'm doing.

 

That is exactly why divorce rates are higher than ever, that is why society is f***ed up, and that is why I stay single at the ripe age of 32.

 

The end.

[Snowflower]

 

 

No. I get what you mean, but your saying I don't "get it" to try to force your opinion on me. I do understand that women have emotional needs, its just that if they bring up a "problem" every day, or they complain almost 24/7, then IT IS time to shut up for a while and ask their husbands how they feel. How about the women compromise their feelings for a while to say how their husbands feel, thats all.

 

I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I was trying to explain from a woman's point of view why we (women) want to talk, talk, talk, about the relationship. And you say you wish the woman would just shut up!

 

And I agree that it is unfair if the woman is talking about what SHE needs but not asking what her husband feels/needs. I doubt women always consider that. It's not that we mean to be that way but we just forget.

 

 

 

I do like how women try to communicate, but just not every day where it stresses me out to the point where I want to blow up. If it means she cares about me and the relationship, she would be quiet for a while and ask me about my take on the issues. Sometimes women don't get that men can naturally sit down quietly for hours, to days at a time, and sometimes we just like to chill on the porch and feel the breeze as we look at the sunset.LOL!! That is one way to get us to connect with you.

 

I like what you wrote here. I think men do feel differently about "heavy conversations" than women do. I once read somewhere that men actually feel threatened by the whole, "we need to talk" lead in to a conversation.

 

My H tries to communicate his feelings well. He was raised with sisters so I think that has benefited him. But, he does get just like you mention where he can just chill out without conversation for hours. TBH, it drives me nuts! But, I'm learning how to communicate with him when he is in that mood.

 

Thanks for the insight!

 

As an aside, Distant, I'm very sorry for what your xW did to you. Not all women are like that. And I hope you find a good one someday. I wish cheaters would marry cheaters and those of us who are faithful marry other faithful people. I have stuck with my H through his infidelity, job loss, and his obsession with guy things like incessant fishing! I'm no martyr, but I love him and gave him a final chance because of this.

[aeh]

Are you still happily married?

 

How is your H treating you? Is he aware that you had been seeing other men/

 

Yes, I am still happily married. I think the last year for me was an absolute emotional rollercoaster, feeling enraged and insane and desperate and a whole other host of sometimes valid and many inappropriate responses to my husband's affair....including enjoying the attention of other men. There was a time, for those of you that remember, that I was thisclose to walking away from the marriage. I indulged in many reckless actions that are not my usual behavior. And we never went back to counseling which I know rankles some here. I feel like my husband and I have talked this thing to death and I do feel like I know what led to his A and what we need to do to make sure it doesn't happen again on either of our parts. I would say that the hysterical bonding lasted almost a full year and in that year we saw the extremes of rage, revenge, sorrow and hope and passion. Yes, my husband was aware of my RA and in the end, another man who I flirted with and who brought me so close to throwing it all away. To sum it up, I feel like we are doing really great. I still have my darker days when there are triggers and I feel sad or angry about all of it, but we are both working hard at the marriage and I do feel like we are on the right path. My H tells me every day how much he cherishes me, adores me and he shows it in all he does. I do think there is a part of me that has walls up and is scared to get hurt again, or feels like I have to be ready, "just in case". Maybe I will always feel that way. I feel "as in love as I can possibly feel" with someone who devastated me so badly. However, the pain has been mutually inflicted and I am equal to blame. I don't feel out of control anymore. Life is good. We are happy. Thank you for asking.

[xxoo]

Spare me the "20 minutes of pillowtalk in the afterglow." Sometimes after amazing sex, we ask our partners how was it, and if the answer is good, then we'll head to sleep. Trying that with us men will work wonders.

 

"Sometimes" is fine.

 

Sometimes, that is all a woman wants, too.

 

But if it is ALL the time, that may be a problem. Esp if there are no other times set aside for non-sexual closeness, and kids/years of marriage are used as a scapegoat. There is no excuse for neglecting the friendship.

[aeh]

No wonder why this thread was started. She's probably thinking of leaving her husband.

 

;)Nope, not thinking of leaving. But I must admit, these things do pique my interest after walking so close to the edge....

[aeh]

Yeah, because her husband cheated on her.

 

Maybe read up on established members' previous posts before passing judgment.

 

Lighten up.

 

Thanks Snowflower for the support!!

[Distant78]

I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I was trying to explain from a woman's point of view why we (women) want to talk, talk, talk, about the relationship. And you say you wish the woman would just shut up!

 

And I agree that it is unfair if the woman is talking about what SHE needs but not asking what her husband feels/needs. I doubt women always consider that. It's not that we mean to be that way but we just forget.

 

 

 

 

I like what you wrote here. I think men do feel differently about "heavy conversations" than women do. I once read somewhere that men actually feel threatened by the whole, "we need to talk" lead in to a conversation.

 

My H tries to communicate his feelings well. He was raised with sisters so I think that has benefited him. But, he does get just like you mention where he can just chill out without conversation for hours. TBH, it drives me nuts! But, I'm learning how to communicate with him when he is in that mood.

 

Thanks for the insight!

 

Thank YOU for your insight also, and I agree with what you said.

 

As an aside, Distant, I'm very sorry for what your xW did to you. Not all women are like that. And I hope you find a good one someday. I wish cheaters would marry cheaters and those of us who are faithful marry other faithful people. I have stuck with my H through his infidelity, job loss, and his obsession with guy things like incessant fishing! I'm no martyr, but I love him and gave him a final chance because of this.

 

Don't worry about me. I'll be fine. I feel better being single like I was ten years ago, and I know not every woman is like I described, but some of those traits I said remind me of the way my ex used to be before her affair. I still miss her sometimes since it was only a year ago I decided to leave her. At least you are still married and I hope you guys stay together forever since you showed your husband that you still love him throughout the bad times. There should be more women out here like you.

[Distant78]

"Sometimes" is fine.

 

Sometimes, that is all a woman wants, too.

 

Yes, I agree, and sometimes men also want that. It turns us on to hear our spouses talk for 20 minutes about how great we made them climax.:love:

 

But if it is ALL the time, that may be a problem. Esp if there are no other times set aside for non-sexual closeness, and kids/years of marriage are used as a scapegoat. There is no excuse for neglecting the friendship.

 

Agreed. Amen to that. I think its safe to say, at the end of the day, both men and women want the same thing in a relationship/marriage but go about it different ways.

[Woggle]

I think if more communicated with men like they actually want to talk instead of coming as constantly criticizing they would get better results. Don't come at him in a hostile manner. Also listen to his side of things as well. Listening goes both ways.

[Thorgs]

hell, I'll take 20 minutes of sincere, undivided attention wherever I can get it in my marriage

I agree. I would take 20 minutes of 1-on-1 time any day.