Interesting article about the nature of marriage, cheating, longevity of love, etc.

[BlackLovely]

Unfortunately, many happy husbands too often go on automatic pilot when it comes to romancing us in later years. Complacency kills more relationships than any other threat, IMHO.

 

Obviously, with almost 70 percent of all women filing for divorce today it is a real issue.

 

The number one cited reason? Not infidelity, drinking, gambling, job loss, illness or any other you would think....

 

Neglect. Women HATE to be emotionally neglected, minimized, or pidgeon-holed into the role of wifey, mother, and chief cook and bottle washer.

 

you guys really ought to pay attention to this poster's words, because they're right on the money. I've been married 18 years ... to the same man ... and I'll admit that I fantasize about finding someone new at times. Not because I want someone younger, someone hotter or someone who'll put out on a regular basis – it's because I'm disheartened by the fact that he expects the relationship to work without putting effort into it or making himself emotionally available. THAT is the hugest turn-off for a woman, being in a relationship with someone who emotionally abandons them while telling the world "See, I love her! I give her everything!"

I'm not talking about fawning all over your wife and kissing *ss, but just 20 minutes of uninterrupted time with her, just being with her. Why is that so hard for y'all to understand? Or is it just easier to hide behind macho bullshxt and complain about how awful women are just so that you don't have to make yourself available in the way it counts most?

 

 

 

Well said! I'm so tired of this gender bashing nonsense on LS.

While I feel bad that Distant and Woggle have had horrible experiences, it seems like they believe that women need to be controlled. They apparently look very fondly on the days women had no voice. How sad.

 

I wonder how the macho Italian man treats his wife? How does Woggle know that the wife was in the wrong? Based on this man's disrespectful and piggish attitude toward his wife leaving, it wouldn't shock me to find out that he treats her like garbage. He clearly thinks his wife is replacable, so why should she stay with someone like that?

[BlackLovely]

I really am scared to be vulnerable with a woman because I know I got it used against me so much in my first marriage and I know many men who have experienced the same thing. Showing vulnerability with a woman is a quick way to kill her attraction for you. I am sorry but in many cases it is true. I know my wife is not like that but it is hard to go back to what killed my first marriage and what ruins relationships for so many men. Women say they want emotional intimacy but how often do they like it when they get it?

I do a really good job of faking it with her when I am in these moods as well.

 

You could voice your opinion to me. I have not once reported anybody to a mod and I don't plan to.

 

You generalize about women too much, Woggle. You also continually post all this misogynist venom. Are you looking for attention or do you truly want our opinions or help?

[Woggle]

You generalize about women too much, Woggle. You also continually post all this misogynist venom. Are you looking for attention or do you truly want our opinions or help?

 

I do want opinions and help but on this issue many women tend to say one thing and do another. They say they want emotional intimacy but why is that so often a relationship killer? Why does it seem that when men open up that is when a woman uses it against him?

 

Also I don't want women to be controlled but I don't see these so called equal partnership relationships working out very well. Every man I know who married a strong woman and tried to have an equal marriage ended up getting royally burned while the piggish men are the ones who end up winning. You can call my barber a pig if you want but his approach actually produced the result he wanted while the evolved men are sitting at home wondering why their ex wives don't love them anymore.

 

I wish things were not this way but they are.

[edgeofdarkness]

I really am scared to be vulnerable with a woman because I know I got it used against me so much in my first marriage and I know many men who have experienced the same thing.

Yes, Woggle, ok. We all rely on experience to guard us against repeating the same errors, and as is evident here, men and women seem to fall into that trap time and time again.

The problem is, they seem to go for the same types, over and over again.

So I could completely understand and equate with your reasoning IF YOUR WIFE WAS FOLLOWING THE SAME PATTERNS as previous people in your life.

But she isn't - is she? She's different.

At least, I damn well hope she is - you're not going to drop a bombshell, are you?

No, I didn't think so.

So, if she's different - why are you bracketing her potential in the same place as the others? It doesn't add up....

 

Showing vulnerability with a woman is a quick way to kill her attraction for you. I am sorry but in many cases it is true.

Vulnerability isn't weakness.

Vulnerability is a human trait in some scenarios. You are insecure, not vulnerable. There's a difference.

 

I know my wife is not like that but it is hard to go back to what killed my first marriage

How would your wife feel if you told her you are likening what you have now, to what you had then?

Do you think it's accurate?

No?

Then why do it?

 

and what ruins relationships for so many men. Women say they want emotional intimacy but how often do they like it when they get it?

Both men and women want emotional intimacy. Don't they have right to complain if they don't get it?

 

I do a really good job of faking it with her when I am in these moods as well.

Like I said - you're a cheater. If you were open, honest and loving with her - in the way you know she merits and deserves - you wouldn't even have to try to fake anything.

 

 

You could voice your opinion to me. I have not once reported anybody to a mod and I don't plan to.

I called you a coward for not opening up to your wife.

I was told it wasn't the done thing.

I understand a Moderator's reasons, with regard to name calling, but I believe in this case I was voicing a Truth.

if you show bravado in coming on here, but withhold so much of yourself from your wife, that makes you a two-faced coward. Woggle, and the tragic thing is, I think you realise this. I really believe you truly want to change the way you are, but your own fear is trapping you.

I think your fear is totally unfounded. you give your wife less credit than she merits.

You also do yourself no favours at all, by perpetuating this small realm of fear that has you trapped and struggling to be loved and accepted in all that you are - but still refusing to give all that you are.

 

Warts and all.

[BlackLovely]

I do want opinions and help but on this issue many women tend to say one thing and do another. They say they want emotional intimacy but why is that so often a relationship killer? Why does it seem that when men open up that is when a woman uses it against him?

 

Also I don't want women to be controlled but I don't see these so called equal partnership relationships working out very well. Every man I know who married a strong woman and tried to have an equal marriage ended up getting royally burned while the piggish men are the ones who end up winning. You can call my barber a pig if you want but his approach actually produced the result he wanted while the evolved men are sitting at home wondering why their ex wives don't love them anymore.

 

I wish things were not this way but they are.

 

And men don't use vulnerability against women, right? I once read this book called "How to Succeed With Women." I like to read what nonsense people are feeding the masses with. The book mentioned something about damaged women with weak boundaries."At least it will be easy to get her into bed." If that's not using, I don't know what is. When I was younger, I had SEVERE self esteem issues. Men could see this and used it to manipulate me into doing things I didn't want to. I'd be lying if I said those experiences didn't harden me, but it doesn't mean ALL men are predators.

 

No, Woggle, you DO believe women should be controlled; you think that only meek women can make good wives. You are afraid of strong women, because you are too weak to handle one. So what if the barber got what HE wanted-what about his wife? I guess she's only a woman, so what she wants doesn't count, right?

 

Before I met my fiance, men would tell me I was a "bitch", just because I wouldn't let them control me and I stood up to them. I am not dumb enough to think, that all men are as wimpy as this. Mr.BlackLovely tells me that he was very much attracted to my "piss and vinegar" when he met me. Only a real man can handle a woman that will challenge him.

[newdawn]

Well good luck to us all, I hope we find someone we can enjoy life with.

[Woggle]

It's not that I am afraid of strong women but most women who go on and on about how strong they are are really just hateful and belligerent people who treat a man like garbage. No I don't wan't a woman who finds fault with everything I do and views being a loving wife as a sign of weakness. These women are not really strong because if they were they would not be afraid to show a loving side. Maybe that means I can't handle a strong woman but I don't view love as something that should have to be endured.

 

If my barber's wife is not happy with what she has now then how come it was the only thing that actually kept her from divorcing him. If she is not happy then how come she called off the divorce once he showed he can live without her?

 

Books like that exist because straight up sincerity from a man usually gets him nowhere.

[Distant78]

Before I met my fiance, men would tell me I was a "bitch", just because I wouldn't let them control me and I stood up to them. I am not dumb enough to think, that all men are as wimpy as this. Mr.BlackLovely tells me that he was very much attracted to my "piss and vinegar" when he met me. Only a real man can handle a woman that will challenge him.

 

Because you "stood up" to them or because you just being plain disrespectful and annoying, trying to feed your ego, and in the process shattering theirs? I'm tired of these women trying to be "independent" in a relationship/marriage. When you're with another person you can't have your cake and eat it too. The time for that has got to stop. I hear about it every day about how some woman wants to be free but yet still cries because no man wants to handle their egotism. Woogle I agree with you. There are some who just don't like a loving man who's willing to do anything for them.

[Distant78]

It's not that I am afraid of strong women but most women who go on and on about how strong they are are really just hateful and belligerent people who treat a man like garbage. No I don't wan't a woman who finds fault with everything I do and views being a loving wife as a sign of weakness. These women are not really strong because if they were they would not be afraid to show a loving side. Maybe that means I can't handle a strong woman but I don't view love as something that should have to be endured.

 

Exactly. Those women who are just disrespectful to their man while going on and on about how strong they are, is not the definition of a strong woman. A strong woman is someone who will be there for their man through thick and thin FOREVER without going to another man for help. Now I know in the 21st century FOREVER doesn't last, but irregardless, thats still what a strong woman is. Someone who won't give up so soon and will listen to their man even if he can't express himself fluently, and those women are hard to find.

[xxoo]

These women are not really strong because if they were they would not be afraid to show a loving side.

 

Substitute "men" for "women"....what does this statement say about you?

 

If you fear showing a loving side because of your past, what does that imply about the women who fear showing a loving side? Probably, they've been just as hurt as you.

[spriggig]

From a man's view, we walk a fine line between being too passive, or a "nice guy", and too hard, or a "bad boy". Women have the same line to walk. The only time the path becomes easier to follow is during the forgiving "honeymoon" stage of a relationship. If both haven't figured out how to walk that line by the time the butterflies leave, there will be trouble. LTRs fail mostly out of ignorance of this fact.

[Woggle]

Substitute "men" for "women"....what does this statement say about you?

 

If you fear showing a loving side because of your past, what does that imply about the women who fear showing a loving side? Probably, they've been just as hurt as you.

 

They are pretty much the female version of me. I admit I am effed up but the way I am in my view is a necessary evil. It is the only thing keeping from becoming a doormat like I was in my first marriage.

[You Go Girl]

Because you "stood up" to them or because you just being plain disrespectful and annoying, trying to feed your ego, and in the process shattering theirs? I'm tired of these women trying to be "independent" in a relationship/marriage. When you're with another person you can't have your cake and eat it too. The time for that has got to stop. I hear about it every day about how some woman wants to be free but yet still cries because no man wants to handle their egotism. Woogle I agree with you. There are some who just don't like a loving man who's willing to do anything for them.

 

Naw. That isn't how it is.

Relationships are dynamic and complex. We have two people who have to decide whether to eat each other alive or make love. Sometimes they do both simulataneously.

It's still a matter of what each wants from a relationship. Finding out what the deeper motives are of another, and even understanding our own, isn't as easy as we paint the picture of it to be.

It's psychology. If a couple isn't paired well psychologically as smart as the other, one is going to have the upper hand. It's the nature of the beast a human--to overpower the weaker.

Sometimes that psychological upper hand goes to a female, other times a male. The trick is to find a good match. If there's an imbalance, somebody is going to be left feeling treated unfairly. But deals with the devil--say a woman marrying a man who makes good money as her primary motive, or a man who chases a woman because she's the best looking woman he's ever had a chance at--these deals with the devil will bite you in the arse everytime. All will eventually be revealed to show what was there from the very beginning.

 

As for me at this point in my life, I'm simple yet perhaps there is a lot of complexity in that simplicity. I want a good friendship first. I have to really LIKE the person, and with that, I can smell an ulterior motive a mile away, and there won't be any pulling the wool over my eyes next time. I have to share at least a few passions with that person--passions other than each other, but common likes, hobbies, or similar.

Somehow, I just know at this point, that my motives are right, and I'm not going to be burned, because there's no deals with the "devil".

Where in the past we have failed--we need look no further than inside ourselves. Our motives were clear, at least to us, but we all ignore our own red flags! Forget about that other person, look inside.

[Distant78]

Naw. That isn't how it is.

Relationships are dynamic and complex. We have two people who have to decide whether to eat each other alive or make love. Sometimes they do both simulataneously.

It's still a matter of what each wants from a relationship. Finding out what the deeper motives are of another, and even understanding our own, isn't as easy as we paint the picture of it to be.

It's psychology. If a couple isn't paired well psychologically as smart as the other, one is going to have the upper hand. It's the nature of the beast a human--to overpower the weaker.

Sometimes that psychological upper hand goes to a female, other times a male. The trick is to find a good match. If there's an imbalance, somebody is going to be left feeling treated unfairly. But deals with the devil--say a woman marrying a man who makes good money as her primary motive, or a man who chases a woman because she's the best looking woman he's ever had a chance at--these deals with the devil will bite you in the arse everytime. All will eventually be revealed to show what was there from the very beginning.

 

As for me at this point in my life, I'm simple yet perhaps there is a lot of complexity in that simplicity. I want a good friendship first. I have to really LIKE the person, and with that, I can smell an ulterior motive a mile away, and there won't be any pulling the wool over my eyes next time. I have to share at least a few passions with that person--passions other than each other, but common likes, hobbies, or similar.

Somehow, I just know at this point, that my motives are right, and I'm not going to be burned, because there's no deals with the "devil".

Where in the past we have failed--we need look no further than inside ourselves. Our motives were clear, at least to us, but we all ignore our own red flags! Forget about that other person, look inside.

 

Thats exactly how it is. Relationships are not dynamic and complex, its just that people who enter them bring their problems into it, or don't know what they want out of it. If nobody in the relationship speaks up about what they want, then how should they expect the relationship to get better. The other SO can't read their mind, no matter how many "hints" they drop.

[You Go Girl]

Thats exactly how it is. Relationships are not dynamic and complex, its just that people who enter them bring their problems into it, or don't know what they want out of it. If nobody in the relationship speaks up about what they want, then how should they expect the relationship to get better. The other SO can't read their mind, no matter how many "hints" they drop.

 

Ah, if life and people were all that simple. How easy it would be to solve all our problems.

But I think there's more than one brain, and not talking about the sex brain specifically, although it may very well be the same brain that I am going to discuss.

That deeper, subconscious, sometimes more animalistic brain, that isn't moral, fair, educated, and certainly not cultured, but is calculating, shrewd, and sly.

We all have one. Ignoring it is to our detriment.

[Distant78]

Ah, if life and people were all that simple. How easy it would be to solve all our problems.

But I think there's more than one brain, and not talking about the sex brain specifically, although it may very well be the same brain that I am going to discuss.

That deeper, subconscious, sometimes more animalistic brain, that isn't moral, fair, educated, and certainly not cultured, but is calculating, shrewd, and sly.

We all have one. Ignoring it is to our detriment.

 

I will acknowledge our brain is made up of many compartments. But if we have that deeper, subconscious, sometimes more animalistic part of our brain, another compartment allows us to control that part of that brain and so forth. We all have one, but embracing it is to our impairment.

[Pyro]

They are pretty much the female version of me. I admit I am effed up but the way I am in my view is a necessary evil. It is the only thing keeping from becoming a doormat like I was in my first marriage.

 

You have claimed numerous times on here that your wife is the exception of the rule and if that is true then why do you still have to possess that evil side? If she is the exception then becoming a doormat is not an option. Sounds to me like you don't fully view her as the exception.

 

You have vented on here for years now and have gone to therapy. Don't you think that its time to try a new plan out if you ever want to get rid of the insecurities? Opening up to her should be the next plan.

 

Worst case scenario her true side comes out and you divorce her thus preventing yourself from wasting anymore time of your life with her and best case scenario she turns out to be an honest, loving, caring woman who wants to help you and you can finally work on your insecurities together.

 

What if she had insecurities about men? Would you want her to open up and talk to you about it?

 

Get busy living or get busy dying Woggle.

[Woggle]

I would run from a female version of me. My wife right now is one of the exceptions but I know how some women can switch their personality at the drop of a hat. The stuff I hear at work and what I read on here just sends chills up my spine. I here them laughing about their husband's good deeds and I picture my wife going to work and doing the same. It is why I feel good inside when I see couples that genuinely truly do love each other because it is so rare and it lets me know that my wife and I are not some fluke.

[Pyro]

I would run from a female version of me. My wife right now is one of the exceptions but I know how some women can switch their personality at the drop of a hat. The stuff I hear at work and what I read on here just sends chills up my spine. I here them laughing about their husband's good deeds and I picture my wife going to work and doing the same. It is why I feel good inside when I see couples that genuinely truly do love each other because it is so rare and it lets me know that my wife and I are not some fluke.

 

You pay so much more attention to the negatives rather than trying to turn them into positives. You are going to die a lonely miserable old man.

 

You don't know if its a fluke or not with your marriage because you have yet to be completely honest with her.

 

Wouldn't you rather take pride in knowing that your biggest accomplishments in life you achieved by being yourself?

 

Its a shame you aren't trying to improve yourself. If you were trying you would talk to her.

[Woggle]

I think I just see things for what they are.

[Pyro]

way to slide out of having a discussion.....

 

Hey Woggle on a daily basis someone gets into a deadly car accident. On a daily basis someone is viciously murdered by gun. You have no fears about getting in your car and leaving your house everyday so why is it different regarding women?

 

You can heal from a broken heart.

 

Talk to her. Why is that so difficult to accomplish? Divorce her then if you can't even communicate with her.

[Woggle]

way to slide out of having a discussion.....

 

Hey Woggle on a daily basis someone gets into a deadly car accident. On a daily basis someone is viciously murdered by gun. You have no fears about getting in your car and leaving your house everyday so why is it different regarding women?

 

You can heal from a broken heart.

 

Talk to her. Why is that so difficult to accomplish? Divorce her then if you can't even communicate with her.

 

The honest to god truth is that behind the bravado I am utterly terrified of being emotionally open with a woman because I have had it used against me in the past and I have seen men who had it used against them. After my last divorce I sat with a loaded gun ready to do myself in and I don't know if I can deal with that heartbreak again so I keep her at an emotional distance. The sad reality is that for many women opening up is an attraction killer.

[Pyro]

The honest to god truth is that behind the bravado I am utterly terrified of being emotionally open with a woman because I have had it used against me in the past and I have seen men who had it used against them. After my last divorce I sat with a loaded gun ready to do myself in and I don't know if I can deal with that heartbreak again so I keep her at an emotional distance. The sad reality is that for many women opening up is an attraction killer.

 

I have read some of the same threads as you on here about betrayal and I too know of people who have had their hearts broken. I was cheated on and I was rejected for being "too nice".

 

I guess I don't understand why you are so terrified. I have had my heart broken before and yes it sucks and hurts at that time but time does heal wounds. You have survived far worse things in life then a broken heart and since you made it past those things a broken heart would be a piece of cake for you.

[spriggig]

Ah, if life and people were all that simple. How easy it would be to solve all our problems.

But I think there's more than one brain, and not talking about the sex brain specifically, although it may very well be the same brain that I am going to discuss.

That deeper, subconscious, sometimes more animalistic brain, that isn't moral, fair, educated, and certainly not cultured, but is calculating, shrewd, and sly.

We all have one. Ignoring it is to our detriment.

 

True it is that relationships are complex and layered, but in the same way that an automotive engineer isn't necessarily a superior driver, knowing (or attempting to know) the underlying psychology of relationships doesn't necessarily make you more savvy in the ways of love.

 

Just how does one ignore a subconscious part of their mind? Doesn't ignoring imply active denial? How does one actively deny a part of their mind they are not conscious of? The answer is they don't.

 

The animal brain is where the butterflies live--oxytocin and vasopressin. They flitter about in response to odor, touch, images and thoughts. We can't deny these things any more than we can deny breathing. You can try to avoid situations and thoughts you imagine might trigger the butterflies, but once they are loose, there is no turning back.

 

How simple life would be if we could ignore the animal brain at will. I could shut off this ridiculous, unreasonable love I feel for a woman who cheated on me and virtually left me for dead.

[Woggle]

I have read some of the same threads as you on here about betrayal and I too know of people who have had their hearts broken. I was cheated on and I was rejected for being "too nice".

 

I guess I don't understand why you are so terrified. I have had my heart broken before and yes it sucks and hurts at that time but time does heal wounds. You have survived far worse things in life then a broken heart and since you made it past those things a broken heart would be a piece of cake for you.

 

The divorce was sort of the straw that back the camel's back. I went from being unable to express any anger to having all those suppressed emotions from all those years of abuse just flowing out and I haven't been the same since. In many ways it was a positive thing because for once in my life I had a backbone but it did make me into somewhat of a woman hater.

 

I am terrified because despite my swearing I would never ever love another woman again I found a woman that I love and the stories that I hear of what other men go through make me terrified that once again I will have that love thrown back in my face. I have built my current life on being strong and trusting another woman feels weak to me. I am not saying that is a good thing but it is behind a lot of my thoughts and actions.