Interesting article about the nature of marriage, cheating, longevity of love, etc.

[Pyro]

My 2nd wife is certainly more mature than my first wife and certainly more fun since I don't consider coke binges and constant drama to be enjoyable activities. Being betrayed that first time especially since I did everything I could to make a great life for us and be a good husband put a wall over my heart that just won't budge. Even my friends who are players that will never marry tell me how lucky I am to have found her yet I am so paranoid of that bomb dropping that I am afraid to do anything in this marriage and seeing the misery of the men all around me certainly does not help my insecurity.

 

Again, why are you married? If your love/trust for her outweighed the insecurities I'd say try to work things out but its obvious the insecurities outweigh the good stuff.

 

If you are worried about the bomb dropping get out of the bomb zone (marriage).

[You Go Girl]

YGG, I have no doubt that on a romantic/relationship level you either are, or will someday bring great joy and happiness into someone's life. You have you figured out, and when that happens we're 75% of the way there.

 

For the rest of us, the recently betrayed or veterans of the war, we can take solace in the fact that we are all responsible for us, and no one else. No matter how much we love and miss our exes, no matter what was lost. This shared knowledge and growing makes LS a valuable tool for healing.

 

 

Well everything came back full circle, steadfast.

This 2nd divorce, I am certainly no WAW. I tried for years to get through the brick wall, to no avail, and with deep sadness.

If someone's not interested in true intimacy, there's no forcing it.

Karma? Naw...just a viewpoint from having seen both sides these days.

My future success in romance? Eh, life's like a river. Grab a paddle and go.

[You Go Girl]

I agree with this completely.

 

It became more and more obvious, especially in retrospect, she was unhappy. I failed in not pursuing the reason with her. "Fine" meant "fine" or at least it was nothing to do with us or me.

 

I think she did something that is very common near the end, she rewrote history to perceive more unhappiness in the past than there really was. She did this to rationalize her decision to cheat and then divorce. The desire to divorce and look elsewhere was there for years, but really, I'm not a bad guy and she knows that. So, she finally had to "trump up the charges to get the conviction she wanted." I believe all of this was mostly sub-conscious.

 

I do know that she explicitly started slacking in all of her duties in order to try to get me to leave her--I was oblivious and it didn't work. Also, in retrospect, I see after the cheating had started she actively sought and pointed out small reasons we weren't compatible--more red flags I missed.

 

I don't want to project too much of my 10 year old experience onto your wife, but the similarities are uncanny, almost eerie.

The conviction she wanted= sabotage and marital suicide.

Why?

Maybe, she is like I was. She might be asking herself those questions such as: Who am I, just me, alone? What value do I have? Am I smart enough, or worth enough, to even take care of myself? (Very common for the SAHM). What's the ultimate test of my self-sufficiency, and thereby, worth? To take care of myself alone (Not an illogical test).

I worked for years part-time, for awhile managing a store, for awhile selling real estate, and then as a vice president of a small corporation (volunteer but worth millions and very high strung). I did a lot of brave, smart actions, even taking down the president of that corporation and publicly embarassing him with his embezzlement. I had my life even threatened during that process from the old 'boys club'.

But a woman's self-esteem eats away at her if she's unsure of it. She wonders if she is a fraud. She wonders what it would mean if she HAD TO take care of herself, without that man to fix anything that broke, who sometimes criticized her, without him to prop herself up financially. Women hide their lack of esteem very well, sometimes portraying just the opposite. Thing is, they don't communicate well WITH THEMSELVES, first off, long before the H.

So the ultimate test is to throw themselves out there, prove their own worth by sink or swim. "I am either worth something, or I am going to end up under a viaduct" thinking. And if I'm not worth something, then what's the point in anything? At least throw myself out there and find out who I am. I will have to become something, because otherwise I won't survive.

 

The bad part is the affair bit. That's unnecessary, but people with low self-esteem go for it everytime. It's also a true means of marital sabotage. It's unforgivable in the faithful wife's eyes. The have committed the ultimate marital murder, and there's no going back, and an affair is the way to solidify that.

Why would an intelligent, educated, good looking woman who appears to have everything going for her do such a thing? Because she's unsure of her own worth.

A MLC isn't about sex and wanting to be a teenager again, as some think. It's a real test of 'what is my worth', and it's scary, because everything is on the gambling table all at once.

[spriggig]

I don't want to project too much of my 10 year old experience onto your wife, but the similarities are uncanny, almost eerie.

The conviction she wanted= sabotage and marital suicide.

Why?

Maybe, she is like I was. She might be asking herself those questions such as: Who am I, just me, alone? What value do I have? Am I smart enough, or worth enough, to even take care of myself?...

 

While she initially began her quest for a partner, it was to fill the emptiness she felt, once she found "the one", she also saw the affair as a way to kill our marriage. I know this much from her journal.

 

I feel like I didn't really know her very well, now. She was probably a little resentful of being so dependent on me even while making almost no effort to help support us. I wanted her to work, I knew it would help her confidence. She chose not to--which was an option for us, but it was paycheck-to-paycheck as long as we were together.

 

I know that whatever is missing from her life, she won't find it outside of herself but as long as she believes she will, she won't be happy with anyone she is with for very long.

Edited August 27, 2010 by spriggig

[Steadfast]

 

The conviction she wanted= sabotage and marital suicide.

 

...The bad part is the affair bit. That's unnecessary, but people with low self-esteem go for it everytime. It's also a true means of marital sabotage. It's unforgivable in the faithful wife's eyes. The have committed the ultimate marital murder, and there's no going back, and an affair is the way to solidify that.

 

 

Uncanny similarities. I relive it again, that pain. These are the most dramatic, true to life words I've read here. Although we've seen it time after time, it is still amazing to me just how closely this phenomenon repeats itself. Women, I think, especially. Men just don't work this way. I'm sorry, but it's different. Obviously, I feel it's different. I know male and female minds and emotions differ.

 

I must ask you this YGG.

 

I can understand her (lost) feelings towards me, her issues, blame shifting, re-writing history and her ultimate loss of attraction. But the one thing I still do not understand is how she could leave her children. Oh sure, she sees them from time to time, but for the most part she has checked out of their lives. This includes our 17 year old daughter who she knows (I strongly emphasize) is entering a critical stage in her life. Surely, as a young lady enters womanhood the need for a mother's council and direction would be greater than ever. Correct? Yet, it is left to me. And I mean left; from sun-up to sundown, day after week after month after...

 

She was a doting mother. A stickler for detail. And -for lack of a better term- a virtual control freak when it came to her children. She was clearly unhappy towards the end; almost violently bitter at times, and not just towards me. She told them her desire to be 'a wife' was gone but not her desire to be a mother.

 

Sadly, as is often the case, her actions say otherwise.

 

It is one thing to hurt abandon your spouse, quite another your children. Amazingly (helped perhaps, because I was careful not to downgrade her in conversation) they adapted and now live normal, happy lives. But they cling to me. I cling back, respectfully.

 

Never, ever in a million years would I have thought life would come to this. How can a woman with strong family values leave theirs?

 

I won't feel badly if you pass. You may not be able to answer it.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Steadfast

[You Go Girl]

Uncanny similarities. I relive it again, that pain. These are the most dramatic, true to life words I've read here. Although we've seen it time after time, it is still amazing to me just how closely this phenomenon repeats itself. Women, I think, especially. Men just don't work this way. I'm sorry, but it's different. Obviously, I feel it's different. I know male and female minds and emotions differ.

 

Never, ever in a million years would I have thought life would come to this. How can a woman with strong family values leave theirs?

 

I won't feel badly if you pass. You may not be able to answer it.

 

I can't answer that because my daughter was my life. I didn't abandon her. I did show some signs of neglect, as even though I was the custodial parent sometimes I was mentally absent. I didn't dote on her night and day like I had before.

I can say the high of a new relationship distracted me. I placed a higher value sometimes on paying attention to him instead of paying attention to her. Of course this wasn't intentional. But there were times that I knew I was making the wrong choice for that evening, that minute, or that hour.

 

My exH didn't fight for custody. He knew I would go for the jugular. The abandonment of the marriage definitely ended before her. Even to this day, with her an adult, she is MY child. That is sad and unfortunate. She looks more like him than me, so I don't see why he has never made a deep connection. It saddens her and she has cried to me about it. So the similarities end with the breakup between your exW and me. Nevertheless, my daughter has suffered because this 2nd marriage was such a problem for me with codependency that I never was there for her 100% again.

I can only guess that your W's resentment runs so deep she avoids any part of you, including your offspring. Odd, I think my exH avoids my daughter for the exact same reason. He's deep behind his armadillo shell and I hear that nobody is allowed in.

I don't think female/male minds work so differently as their roles and upbringing in society. If women were taught to take the lead more often in their own lives and that they are of the same worth as men in society this phenomena wouldn't keep repeating itself endlessly. Many may believe that the stigma is gone and women are no longer 2nd class citizens, but it's not. We see the discrepancies everyday of our lives. Something to think about if you are raising a daughter. I'd start with teaching her how to change an electrical outlet all by herself but I certainly wouldn't end her self-sufficiency there. I'd continue far far onward. Imagine living in a world in which you don't understand how any technical thing works. It's all foreign. That's where most women live everyday. Not saying that they couldn't educate themselves, but their not taught to lean toward that, but taught to be dependent.

[Woggle]

Again, why are you married? If your love/trust for her outweighed the insecurities I'd say try to work things out but its obvious the insecurities outweigh the good stuff.

 

If you are worried about the bomb dropping get out of the bomb zone (marriage).

 

I don't see how any man aware of modern day trends can't be married without worrying. Maybe I shouldn't be married but I am and what YGG is an epidemic in our society so how can I not worry?

[Steadfast]

 

Many may believe that the stigma is gone and women are no longer 2nd class citizens, but it's not. We see the discrepancies everyday of our lives. Something to think about if you are raising a daughter. I'd start with teaching her how to change an electrical outlet all by herself but I certainly wouldn't end her self-sufficiency there.

 

 

Another great post YGG. Thank you. Your comments really made me think about some of the things my ex said and did towards the end of our marriage. She showed increased interest in learning 'male type' things, and I think she felt a little left out when I was remodeling the plumbing/bathrooms. I remember thinking 'why would anyone want to take this on?' I was showing my love by busting azz. My motivation was to please her. Guess I guessed wrong. Again.

 

Guess our communication wasn't the greatest, and I'll take half of that. Still have trouble figuring out how boinking another guy solves anything.

 

I'll say it again; even if we know what's going on in our unhappy spouses heads, how much of that understanding would change things? For two years she came 'round, wanting me to work on her car and look at her house. I showed her how to change oil, check tires, run her ECU's computer diagnostic... and she still has someone else do it. Not once did I ever ignore her if she said; "Honey, I want to talk about something really important to me".

 

FWIW, I didn't/don't view her/women as a second class citizen, nor do any of my male (and yes, some are old fashioned) friends or family. The traditional roles are a big part of the mindset, but personally, it isn't a superiority issue. In fact, I was criticized for just the opposite as I recall. 'Don't put me on a pedestal' she said. 'I don't deserve to be there'. My response of who and what I hold in high esteem is my decision was met with silence. Lots of silence.

 

One could psycho-analyze this to death, and that could cause more harm than help. Fact: the cheater/betrayer places their own wants and needs above anyone's and that's a surefire recipe for misery. What about the wants and desires of the person not complaining? Did my ex wife ever stop to consider that I wanted things to be better too? The crazy thing? For me personally, they are. Not because of her actions, but in spite of them. She gets no credit for that. Wrong begets more wrong and vise-versa.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Steadfast

[pureinheart]

I disagree Karnak! This is a phenomenon being studied by sociologists and psychologists today: The Walkaway Wife Syndrome.

 

And it is interesting to note that women are not walking away for money or status or younger flesh, but are rather seeking affection, understanding and fairness!

 

As we have become economically less dependent on male providers over the last 50 years, we are finally freer to examine our wants and needs as we head towards mid-life and the all-consuming role of child-rearing diminishes.

 

We want someone to hold our hand, die to kiss us, sexually ravish us and make the emotional effort to re-connect with us, the woman!

 

Unfortunately, many happy husbands too often go on automatic pilot when it comes to romancing us in later years. Complacency kills more relationships than any other threat, IMHO.

 

Obviously, with almost 70 percent of all women filing for divorce today it is a real issue.

 

The number one cited reason? Not infidelity, drinking, gambling, job loss, illness or any other you would think....

 

Neglect. Women HATE to be emotionally neglected, minimized, or pidgeon-holed into the role of wifey, mother, and chief cook and bottle washer.

 

 

Good article, Aeh.

 

Spark this is wonderful...excellent...I am speechless (and that doesn't happen very often:D)

[spriggig]

...Why didn't she try? WAW's have tunnel vision. It's back to that immaturity issue.

 

In retrospect I know she tried. Being content, I didn't see that any effort was required. While a more mature person is assumed to be more knowledgeable, I think ignorance is a more precise reason.

 

We both had different experiences at the end of the honeymoon phase. We both ignorantly assumed that the other felt the same when that wasn't true--I continued to be mostly content while she was increasingly discontent.

 

Considering neither of us were abusive to ourselves or each other, we both wanted to be married, and we were reasonably compatible, I think knowledge--spotting the red flags, agreeing what they meant, and then perhaps MC early on--could have saved our marriage. I believe, even before poor communication, simple ignorance killed our marriage.

 

Generally, it's interesting that subsequent marriages are MORE likely to end in divorce. It seems we don't learn and then are more likely to take the easy way out again.

[You Go Girl]

In retrospect I know she tried.

 

I believe, even before poor communication, simple ignorance killed our marriage.

 

Generally, it's interesting that subsequent marriages are MORE likely to end in divorce. It seems we don't learn and then are more likely to take the easy way out again.

 

I think there's something though to the idea that complacency is not only a red flag, nor ignorance, but that people aren't taught to value their marriages to the degree they may later when it's too late.

Too much coasting. Not enough paying attention to their spouses feelings.

I know this was true for my marriage, on both sides.

 

Subsequent marriages I think have a few different traits--

one is that standards are raised with age. I *expect* certain mature behaviors. If I communicate, as I did during my 2nd marriage, and hit a brick wall for frickin' 6 YEARS, I don't think I was complacent nor ignorant, I don't think I lacked communication, but I hit up against that dug in his heels going to live as he wants attitude.

Well he had every right to do that--live as he wants.

People's behaviors are amplified with age. Bad habits become a way of life, and they can't see any other way of living. It's too ingrained.

On the same note, it should be easier to recognize flaws when dating. LDR's make that more difficult.

Those raised standards, or maybe they should be called deal-breakers, the list gets longer as people are more educated. Aware, it is that much more difficult to find a good fit in a partner.

It's not about guilt with our errors, it is ignorance to a large degree, and ignorance is up there with innocence, in that we can't bash ourselves over what we don't know that can hurt us.

A common error in subsequent marriages--seek out something completely different from what type of relationship/partner is known already, because that didn't work. So find her/his opposite. This is not a recipe for success.

Incompatibility becomes very apparent quickly.

[aeh]

Yes, OP here. Still reading. On my phone so can't type a long response now but very interesting discussion with YGG, Steadfast, Spriggig and Woggle.

[confusedinkansas]

I only read the first half of the article but here's what immediately popped in my head.

 

Women walk away because.......

Another man shows them attention that their husband didn't

Then this other man inches his way into her life

Makes her think that her husband is the ODD man out

Other men in the world treat women like queens 24/7 & are ALWAYS attentive

Also, Television & Movies paint a fantasy picture of what life 'should' be like

 

Then........The woman leaves her husband thinking "There's gotta be something MORE"

 

Then REALITY SLAPS THEM IN THE FACE

ALL MEN ARE PRETTY MUCH ALIKE

Yes, some have more emotions

Some are more aggressive

Some are more passive

But in reality, You (a woman) leaves her home hoping to find a better life.

But she only finds pretty much the same thing.

 

(My AP once said, all people/men/women are pretty much alike. You just leave one with one set of troubles for another - with a completely new set of troubles)

 

So who'do ya blame!? The women for being too caught up in emotion? Maybe.

The men that lure them in with the possibility of a better life? Maybe

 

Or Maybe if those of us that did "Just Walk Away" would realize that....As with the Wizard of Oz --- Dorothy wakes up at home and discovers you have to be careful what she wishes for, and that there really is no place like home.

 

I dunno. Just a thought:)

[Woggle]

And if a man has any respect for himself Dorothy won't have a place to come home to. If my wife ever walked away then she walks away for good as far as I am concerned.

[wheelwright]

I only read the first half of the article but here's what immediately popped in my head.

 

Women walk away because.......

Another man shows them attention that their husband didn't

Then this other man inches his way into her life

Makes her think that her husband is the ODD man out

Other men in the world treat women like queens 24/7 & are ALWAYS attentive

Also, Television & Movies paint a fantasy picture of what life 'should' be like

 

Then........The woman leaves her husband thinking "There's gotta be something MORE"

 

Then REALITY SLAPS THEM IN THE FACE

ALL MEN ARE PRETTY MUCH ALIKE

Yes, some have more emotions

Some are more aggressive

Some are more passive

But in reality, You (a woman) leaves her home hoping to find a better life.

But she only finds pretty much the same thing.

 

(My AP once said, all people/men/women are pretty much alike. You just leave one with one set of troubles for another - with a completely new set of troubles)

 

So who'do ya blame!? The women for being too caught up in emotion? Maybe.

The men that lure them in with the possibility of a better life? Maybe

 

Or Maybe if those of us that did "Just Walk Away" would realize that....As with the Wizard of Oz --- Dorothy wakes up at home and discovers you have to be careful what she wishes for, and that there really is no place like home.

 

I dunno. Just a thought:)

 

Nice thought, and some of this goes on no doubt.

 

But my xMOM was very realistic.

 

He gave me a card once which showed a man and wife sitting together on the sofa, with a box of chocolates by man's feet. Speech bubble read "Get your own chocolates". Caption read "Milk Tray man after 10 years".

 

And he also counselled me on the whole jumping ship problem. But I saw something else - just simply a better fit. The down side of a R is so much easier if there is a good fit between you.

 

Some Ms have this, some don't. Some As do, some don't.

 

I would like more than the Milk Tray man and his future beer gut, because I would like to believe that all that roof climbing was more than romance and libido. But people caught in As considering jumping ship are caught in an impasse - because only time will tell. And the ability to gamble for love. Which indeed may be unwise, although my battered heart still wonders. And that gamble holds whether you stay in the M or not. But staying is a safer bet, with more dependable rewards. And not many of us go for the "big one" because the stakes are too high.

 

So we have an A. Kind of "each way" but even when we know the favourite will win.

 

(For the young - the ads depicted a virile mile dressed in black doing Mission Impossible style feats just to bring his lady chocolates. It was cheesy and romantic and we all understood it. And I was only 8 at the time!)

[aeh]

OP here...

 

Don't mean to turn anyone off, but I am attending a study at my place of worship which is about intimacy in marriage. Focuses on why we should have it, its importance, its benefits, etc. VERY interesting. I am also in another study which will be focusing on sex as well which will last all year. Our speaker told us that church staff was being approached by SEVEN couples a month whose marriages are in crisis. They have seen an extreme acceleration over the last nine months. Also, that it is not the typical man leaving woman thing, but that there are many women in our affluent area who have left their husbands for other men.

 

I am interested to see how the study goes. So far we discussed sex as means for 1) creating life (obviously), 2) intimate oneness, 3)pleasure, 4) guarding against temptation and 5) comfort. I think we often forget sex as used for comfort. I think in these economic times of uncertainty, comfort is very important.