Manage the doubts

[Herman]

A little over a week ago, my wife of 6 years moved out. She said that while she still cares about me deeply, her feelings for me have changed and she is not in love with me anymore.

 

Until that day, we have had a wonderful marriage, and she assures me that I’m not to blame. The biggest storm we’ve had to weather is the fact that we haven’t been able to have children – unexplained infertility. We went through two IVF cycles three years ago, and that was not a good experience at all, but I thought we had gotten over it.

 

She has moved into an apartment here in town, and she is seeing a therapist to find out why these feelings have disappeared. I have started seeing a counselor too to help me through this phase, and I do have support from the family and friends, but it’s so lonely. My wife and I are talking every day, and we do want to do things together (concerts, ball games) in the future when both of us are emotionally stable enough.

 

I love her, and I do want to fight for her, and I think we have a chance. But at some point during the day, the dark thoughts are coming: am I just kidding myself here? I’m a religious person, but is my faith strong enough to make it through this? How long can I hang on without losing my sanity?

 

Any advice on how to manage the doubts?

[just_some_guy]

Your best bet is to do the 180 (search for it), go no contact, no whining, no midnight phone calls, no stalking her apartment, etc.

 

Someone will be along with a link to it in short order.

 

The next thing that will be posted is someone will say she is already having an affair, either emotional or physical or both. It is possible, perhaps probable that she is either with or contemplating someone else. Some will claim it absolute, but it isn't necessarily true. I've been on my own for 6 months and I'm not sleeping with anyone but myself. My divorce is now moving ahead and we are both better for it. It could have worked out otherwise, but it didn't.

[tojaz]

Welcome to LS Herman. I'm going to leave the 180 to someone else right now.

 

Theres no fighting the doubts to be honest with you. They will always be there and if you can resolve one three more will take its place. Doubts are part and parcel with a ride on the roller coaster. Believe me, I know.

 

The best thing you can do to manage the doubts is to have an honest conversation with yourself about how you want to approach what your about to go through. Emotions are going to pull you all over the place, from wanting to fight to your last breath to just giving up and shuffling her out the door. Thats a fact, be ready for it.

 

If you can tell yourself that its worth fighting for (love always is) then doubt doesn't matter! Odds don't matter. It has nothing to do with your will to try and repair your marriage unless you give them that power over you. Pure and simple, doubt will be there, but you will never know for sure until you act.

 

Everyone who plays the lottery doubts they will win, but still millions play. Why? Because the rewards are great.

 

TOJAZ

[hopesndreams]

I am one of those that has to say, your W is deep into an A. The classic, feelings have changed and she is no longer in love with you, has been heard from every WS (wayward spouse) on these boards.

 

She's moved out, has her own place. If OM is still hidden, it means he's married.

 

Prove me wrong or prove me right. Investigate!

 

I love her, and I do want to fight for her,

 

No point in fighting if there is an OM. You can't compete, so don't even bother.

[Herman]

There are no indications of OM - I've talked to some of the friends that she's talked too, nothing. If I were to find evidence, the decision to leave would be a lot easier.

 

For now I want to give her the time, there are some legitimate issues for her to work through.

 

Tojaz, thank you for the kind words - I like the lottery comparison.

[What_Next]

Herman, first I feel for you. Read through my thread for a long drawn out example of what happens what seems like time and time again in marriages. As for an affair, you know your wife and the situation better than we do but believe NOTHING she says regarding it and keep your eyes wide open.

 

The 180 might be the best approach for now. I was exactly where you were only a few months ago and I can tell you this; if you do reconcile hold onto your hat because it's going to be hell on earth.

 

Read through what I went through and what I am going through. The only difference is that my wife didn't move out. She would have if possible though.

 

Keep your wits about you. Use LS as a sounding board.

 

Are there children involved?

[tojaz]

There are no indications of OM - I've talked to some of the friends that she's talked too, nothing. If I were to find evidence, the decision to leave would be a lot easier.

 

For now I want to give her the time, there are some legitimate issues for her to work through.

 

Tojaz, thank you for the kind words - I like the lottery comparison.

 

Your very welcome Herman. Keep it in mind when the times get tough. Either way it ends up, your in for one of the toughest things your ever going to go through.

 

Use LS, as a sounding board, for advice, and learn. Read other threads, see the patterns, and get ahead of the curve.

 

You have to think with your head, love with your heart, and live somewhere in the middle. (Did you catch that W_N???)

 

TOJAZ

[What_Next]

You have to think with your head, love with your heart, and live somewhere in the middle. (Did you catch that W_N???)

 

TOJAZ

 

Subtle, very subtle Tojaz. That's a great sentence but in reality not so easy to put into practice. I'm not sure how long before marriage Herman knew his wife but I've been with mine for nearly 20 bloody years. Emotions run deep.

[cavedweller]

Herman,

 

Two questions:

 

Why did she move out?

 

Are you sure there is not another man?

[Herman]

From what she told me, and from what I've heard through the friends and family, she feels that she cannot resolve her issues and live under the same roof at the same time - I feel it's a matter of not having to hold anything back, and I kind of understand that.

 

As I said, between the infertility and other childhood issues, there has been enough material to throw her for a loop, and she is adressing it with the help of a therapist.

 

I really appreciate all the comments so far, both sides, but I just can't get myself to walk away quite yet. Because I believe she is sincere in wanting to work out the problems, and because I have no reason to suspect there is someone else, I feel like I owe it to us to give it some time, and not make a rash decision - even if that means I look like a complete fool in a few weeks / months.

[witabix]

..........even if that means I look like a complete fool in a few weeks / months.

 

I feel for your situation. Regardless of what happens, or is happening, you will not look like any sort of fool. Trust your own feelings, your own heart, believe you will come out of this better than when you went into it.

[spriggig]

I'll echo the others, keep your ear to the ground for an affair--it seems impossible until it slaps you in the face. Although, I agree with you, infertility can be devastating and that, along with probably having past the honeymoon phase is more than enough to explain her behavior.

 

Keep her away from "Eat, Pray, Love.", it's a marriage killer.

 

Fight if you must, at least you'll be able to say you tried everything.

 

Good luck.

[habs53]

Well could be an emotional affair. Some people fall very hard for these type of things.

For example, about a month and a half ago i reconnected with an old friend who lives on the other side of the country. Now she wants me to move there and basically loves me.

 

My wife moved out as well 3 months ago and things will get better. Do the 180 and help yourself. You are in for a roller coaster ride.

Good luck

[Steadfast]

Funny, I'm reading 'Eat, Pray, Love'. Have to agree. Old Liz isn't doing marriage any favors. She's a great writer...but not great wife material!

 

Herman, the infidelity red flag is the 'love, but not in love' reference, cemented by the actual moving out. Unless she fears the very sight of you will destroy whatever feelings she has left, your wife is seeking freedom. Seriously, who needs space to think? Who needs to move in order to sort out feelings? I could almost see it if fighting was a major issue, but you yourself said that everything was fine up until she dropped the hammer.

 

We often wish so hard for one thing to be true that we ignore the obvious.

 

As for your faith, it's best to remember that we must move towards God; he doesn't move towards us. Mankind has been given complete freedom of choice, and that includes your wife. People often ask "What kind of a God would allow..." but the truth is, what kind of a God would create living beings, then control them like pawns? He is above the finite things of the world. He is infinite. In Him is the truth, peace and direction you seek.

 

Take the very good advice you've been given here. The best chance your marriage has of surviving is to let her go. If she loves you like a wife should love a husband, then she will return. If she doesn't, you're better off. Who wants to be married to someone who doesn't love them?

 

You're better than that and you deserve better. She must know this. Pray for her, be kind and understanding, and show yourself love. In time, what she is doing or her motivation will be revealed. Move towards getting to the bottom of what's driving her actions, and act accordingly. Hang in!

[Herman]

I might be drinking the kool-aid here, but I just don't see another man. I've talked to her family and to the friends that she has contacted, and there is no hint - I just don't see her lying to everybody.

 

There'd be nothing to gain from hiding it anyway, it would simply make my decisions a lot easier.

[hopesndreams]

I might be drinking the kool-aid here, but I just don't see another man. I've talked to her family and to the friends that she has contacted, and there is no hint - I just don't see her lying to everybody.

 

There'd be nothing to gain from hiding it anyway, it would simply make my decisions a lot easier.

 

She wants you as a back-up plan in case things don't work out with OM. She is also weaning herself off you. She is still using you for her emotional needs.

 

Your W doesn't dislike you and doesn't want to hurt you even more by you discovering or her confessing the truth. Affairs can be will hidden for other reasons as well, such as saving face or the A partner is married and or both in the A are married.

 

Is she religious too?

[Herman]

Yes, religion and church has played a prominent role in both our lives.

[What_Next]

Just keep your eyes open.

 

Have you involved your church in terms of possible counsiling?

[tojaz]

Subtle, very subtle Tojaz. That's a great sentence but in reality not so easy to put into practice. I'm not sure how long before marriage Herman knew his wife but I've been with mine for nearly 20 bloody years. Emotions run deep.

 

I've never claimed to be subtle W_N nor that I have all the answers. I do know how deep emotions can run spent nearly half my life with my wife.

 

I might be drinking the kool-aid here, but I just don't see another man. I've talked to her family and to the friends that she has contacted, and there is no hint - I just don't see her lying to everybody.

 

There'd be nothing to gain from hiding it anyway, it would simply make my decisions a lot easier.

 

There is no law that says theres an OM. Read enough threads and see enough stories unfold and patterns develop, but its not law. I've seen plenty of ILYB's that were not spurred on by an affair.

 

Dont be blind to what may be hidden but dont concoct a boogie man in the closet. that can be just as bad.

 

So she says she has issues to resolve, what are they???

 

TOJAZ

[Herman]

Re. church - no, I'm going to a private therapist, and so is she. I've told her that if we work this out, we'll probably need to see somebody together, and she agrees - but we're not there yet.

 

I have a priest friend though that will help me with the spiritual side for now.

 

Re. issues: I think not having kids is the biggest one. There are others stemming from a difficult early childhood and from a selfish mother that add to the mix.

 

From conversations with friends, I feel that she doesn't know exactly what's driving her away. Apparently it's not me or the OM, but some sort of midlife crisis (she's 39) that has her looking for direction.

 

It's brutal; I'd love to have her back, warts and all, but at the same time, I need to figure out how long I can wait without damaging myseld, and what to do next.

[You Go Girl]

There'd be nothing to gain from hiding it anyway, it would simply make my decisions a lot easier.

 

Yes, she does have something to gain from hiding such a thing. Not revealing so that she doesn't have to suffer judgment and GUILT.

 

If she has someone else and wants to avoid the judgment of others, she will pretend he came along later, after she had moved out, not the truth, that he came into her life beforehand.

 

But, maybe she doesn't have somebody else. Ok, she suffered through infertility. Now just how is an apartment going to solve that? It doesn't, so it doesn't add up.

Your wife has some other motivation for moving out. If not another man, then what? You need to ask her to get on the level with you and tell you what this is really about, because she is hiding SOMETHING. Even if that something is not another man.

Women don't just fall out of love one day and feel the need to proclaim this loss of love. She's been contemplating leaving for awhile, it didn't happen overnight. And if there's nobody else--women will work on the marriage, shocked at their own revelation that they don't feel the love they think they should.

And the biggest clue of all is that she loves but isn't in love. Well that would mean one thing--that she wants to be in love. So if no new man yet, which I suspect there is, but even if there isn't, she's setting herself up to find someone to be in love with.

[New_Life08]

Is there any reason to believe there is someone else?

 

If you feel the infertility is the major factor then it probably is. She may have built some resentment about the infertility not toward you but toward life. Most women feel a deep emotional right to bear children; it fulfills a purpose. To find out it is next to impossible can cause a painful void. Some women feel like less of a woman, feel robbed, and like she is robbing you of children.

 

I think men tend to get past this a little easier than women. She is not going to get past it, she just has to learn how to live with it. It is grief no less sickening than losing a loved one except she is reminded every time she sees a mother with children.

 

When my kid's father and I started trying, I could not conceive. It took a few years. I remember him saying "It's okay if we don't have kids, I am okay with it." It was nice of him to say, but deep down I felt insecure and besides my own longing I thought if I couldn't give him children I was taking away a profound part of his life.

 

Have you two thought of adoption or any other option?

 

It seems like she is trying by keeping in touch with you and wanting to do things together. She wouldn't act this way if she didn't love you on some level. Try to be patient and let the therapy work for both of you...

 

I know it must be hard to cope with it all...hang in there.

[Herman]

Nothing points to the OM. I know that's it an obvious question, but she has denied it categorically to me, her family and every one of her friends that I have talked too. I'll keep my eyes open, but I can't be chasing ghosts.

 

About kids: we have talked about adoption, donor eggs / sperm and pretty much all of the other options available and have decided against it. I have accepted the fact that I won't be a dad, I'm OK with it and she knows that.

 

This is a lot easier to accept for a man, and obviously I don't get reminded every month that I'm not pregnant. I see your point though that she feels inadequate, and one of her friends has speculated that this is the reason she's pulling away - I'm sure it has a lot to do with it, but it's in her head, and I'm outside looking in.

 

I'm willing to wait because I think she's worth it. But throughout the last few days, I have started to come to terms with the fact that I have to at least prepare for the end and have to have a plan ready.

[GorillaTheater]

I'm willing to wait because I think she's worth it. But throughout the last few days, I have started to come to terms with the fact that I have to at least prepare for the end and have to have a plan ready.

 

I know this is very very difficult, but it sounds like you're dealing with this as well as you can. I think it's a good sign that she hasn't laid the blame on you for whatever it is that's going on; it tells me that she really is looking inward and not seeking external validation (i.e., an OM).

 

But no, there are no guarantees in this life. Stay strong, as supportive as you can be without surrendering your integrity, hope for the best and, yeah, prepare for the worst just in case. Best of luck, brother.

[witabix]

I know this is very very difficult, but it sounds like you're dealing with this as well as you can. I think it's a good sign that she hasn't laid the blame on you for whatever it is that's going on; it tells me that she really is looking inward and not seeking external validation (i.e., an OM).

 

But no, there are no guarantees in this life. Stay strong, as supportive as you can be without surrendering your integrity, hope for the best and, yeah, prepare for the worst just in case. Best of luck, brother.

 

I echo all the points and sentiments in this post.