Do I overreact to my wife?

[tac719]

We had a long talk Sunday morning. I told her that I needed a lot more trust in our relationship than I was getting and that if I didn't get it we were not going to work. She understood this and said I needed to do what was best for me. She felt like we as a couple had not been able to work on the marriage in a positive manner because of different events that have occured since we've been married. I agreed to give us the benefit of trying to make the marriage work. I have decided to see if she will make any changes along with myself for the better. But I am giving myself a timeline to see if there is any improvement.

 

She says that her jealousy is getting better and that she is working on it. Like you all have said she just does not have any idea of nor ever will probably of what kind of effect it has on me. She has become very protective of herself and in doing so pushes others emotionally close to her away it seems. I've seen that she gets very angry with her mom easily. She lives close by. She loves her mom dearly but is constantly getting angry with her for something. Her mom takes it in stride although sometimes gets angry back, but nothing compared to what my wife can give her. I'm just drawing a comparison that I hadn't really thought of till now. Her mom is very much a follower not take charge at all, unlike my wife.

 

You all have giving me the courage to really voice and make me aware of what I need. If I don't get it after a certain amount of time...

 

What is your opinion? Primarily about her trying to change or work more on the relationship.

[Bubbles]

Well tac719,

 

I have questions......as I always do. Did you tell her precisly "what" she does that makes you feel terrible? Were you specific with her. I hope so because otherwise she will be guessing at what angers you.

 

You need to relate to her that it is when she.....(does a specific thing)...that is when you are made to feel badly. Do not revisit old arguements. These items are NOT to be re-discussed, they are "closed" for discussion.

 

If only you could plant a video camera in the house so that she could actually watch and hear herself in action. That would probably hit home with her.

 

Has she always been the one in "control" of all her relationships? Has she always been so tempermental? Have you discussed her moodiness with her Mother?

 

Bubbles

[tac719]

I have questions......as I always do. Did you tell her precisly "what" she does that makes you feel terrible? Were you specific with her. I hope so because otherwise she will be guessing at what angers you.

 

 

I told her the trust issue was the biggie. I did not go into specifics. I guess I felt in the past I have told her what bothered me more specifically, which usually ended up in a battle. Maybe I should write a list of the things that really bother me emotionally and ideologically. Memorize and talk to her about it, I don't think handing it to her would be a great idea.

 

If only you could plant a video camera in the house so that she could actually watch and hear herself in action. That would probably hit home with her.

 

I would be curious to see both of our reactions to each other. Yes I think it would really upset her to see how she can be.

 

Has she always been the one in "control" of all her relationships? Has she always been so tempermental? Have you discussed her moodiness with her Mother?

 

According to her she was not with her previous husband and that she had a revelation that she was never going to be hurt or pushed around again. She told me she had spoken to a counselor who said she needed to voice her feelings and never hold back. She says she was never this temperamental but I don't believe it.

 

As a child she said she felt like she needed to take care of her mom instead of the other way around. She gets really upset with her moms flightyness(sp?) and her constant talk of always being sick with something. I could see how she could get on ones nerves, but I don't think she forgives her for her faults. Her mom is a very giving person though and I think does get very resentful of my wifes anger (she doesn't let her know though at least not directly).

[Bubbles]

So tac719,

 

Simply put.....no-one in your wife's family has stood up to her and told her that her actions are simply not acceptable. It sounds as though your wife has always ruled the "roost" and her Mother never punished her for

speaking out of turn. I have a very close friend that acts this way towards her family she says that she must "keep everyone in line" I told her that, that is not her role nor her function in the family. She wasn't too happy with me but also admitted that I was right......she is too "bossy" She has not done much "changing" but she is aware of what she says and does when I am around and her family is grateful for my speaking to her on their behalf.

 

No-one like to think of themselves as Controlling or Bitchy but it does happen and it is a mightly hard pill to swallow when confronted. Human nature dictates that we defend ourselves firstly, then only after time has passed are we made aware of our actions by our own doing.

 

Be honest with your wife. It is what she expects from you. Remember: You get what you give. If you do not get what you give; then you must draw your own line and take action.

 

Heather.

[tac719]

I do find myself disagreeing with the way she reacts to her daughter. I know she loves her more than anything in the world, but she can be extremely critical of her. She becomes extremely impatient when helping her with homework and going over her school work. This is how the night usually starts on a bad note. I think she puts way to much pressure to get the correct answer for homework. This is where I have a big problem I think in the marriage. She has cussed in front of her and yelled when she feels like her daughter is not trying hard enough. I have helped her quite a bit and am much more patient. She is very smart but sometimes just doesn't want to work. Typical for an 8 year old.

 

I don't want to have a child and have him/her be yelled at or feel that kind pressure. I don't think I would allow it. I know I wouldn't.

 

I have to leave for lunch, but will continue after...

[tac719]

To me that is a difficult topic to approach with her. She gets upset with herself for reacting this way to her daughter and worries that she'll hold it against her later. Her daughter, my stepdaughter has everything she needs and wants and does not lack. I just have a difficult time with the way my wife responds to her.

 

Last night she called her a liar twice over whether or not she brought certain school work home (harshly). I felt like she should have told her to tell the truth and not fib. Turns out she was telling the truth. This whole episode went on till she (daughter) went to bed and was completely emotionally exhausted. But I didn't want to create a scene between her mom and myself in front of her.

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm staying to help her daughter out. To make sure she gets through. I know my wife is a good mother (all in all), I mean she did master in child psychology. I just feel like she needs to practice what she preaches.

 

I just need to stop complaining and do. I'll start a list. I'm sure she's got one on me.

 

 

I want to start a more uplifting forum post after this! Whew! I've got good advice for someone out there I'm sure.

[Bubbles]

Good idea tac179, I'll catch up to you later and if you ever need me just pm me.

 

 

Bubbles

[FolderWife]

My husband used to look at porn excessively. He lied about it. Porn got really out of hand.

 

Now, as far as I know, there is no porn in our home, but every time I see a lingerie model, or a girl in a swimsuit, all of those horrible feelings of jealousy and betrayl come flooding back, and I quickly get angry. I have to work very hard.

 

Now, whenever we watch a movie together, and some woman pops up naked, it's all I can do not to make a snide remark. I want to spit, "You knew that was in the movie! That's the whole reason we're watching it, isn't it!" because that's pretty much what I believe.

 

Yep, I've got issues. The origional question remains, why do you have to watch shows with scantly clad women? My dad doesnt. My mom and dad would never have such things in their home, and they are happy. Why is half naked-naked women necessary?

[tac719]

It's not. But it shows up on tv anyway. Not my fault.

[FolderWife]

I just went back and read everything, instead of just the initial statement, and wow. She has some control issues...I doubt she realizes it though, because you are so easy going.

 

I have a theory: Did your wife live somewhere else before she became an adult? Did she move to your town to marry you, or just out of high school, or has she lived there her whole life?

 

The reason I'm asking is because societies differ so much. I lived a measily two hours away before I got married. There, it was the norm for wives to badger their husbands for having wondering eyes. Every married woman I knew would make a snide remark if her husband watched the Dixy Chicks sing a song.

 

Then I move two hours away, and suddenly my husband looks at porn, there's a strip club right down the road, every man and woman that I talk to seems to think it's ok and NORMAL. I had a lot of adjusting to do!

 

In my home town, there's churches everywhere, and the closest thing we have to a mall is a Walmart that is 10 minutes out of town. There are no black people. Any gays would be afraid to come out of the closet...if there were any. Husbands did not watch baywatch. The only people who looked at porn, were criminals.

 

Where I live now, even though it's only two ours away, it's a completely different world.

 

Maybe this is where her moral ideas stem from?

[gaia]

tac719

You poor poor man. I've just read the whole thread and it's awful. At first I thought I could identify a bit with the insecurity, in a similar way to free me, I guess. But the difference is that most women who are insecure know that it's their problem and feel compelled to act this way, all the time knowing that they are bringing about the thing they most dread.

 

Your wife is different. I can't make up my mind whether she is an extreme control freak or whether she is mentally ill. I know that there is a condition called "delusional jealousy" where the sufferer believes their partner is being unfaithful despite there being absolutely no evidence to support it. Maybe you could read some info on the web and see if it fits. If it does, she needs serious professional help and the outlook without it would be grim. I may be way off here, but I just thought I'd mention it as a possibility.

 

Whatever you decide, I hope things get better for you

[spencer]

Oh my god Tac, you shouldn't have to live this way. Its destructive for both of you.

I just read the whole thread and I want to slap your wife.

and I'm one of the most peaceful, zen like people you would ever meet.

 

now to tell you about my experience, with jealosy, Im soooo not proud of this.

 

It started around age 15-16. I dated a boy of 17, he was insecure and a master manipulator.

Ill try to make a long story short.

He only liked brunettes, im blonde! (funny, 2 weeks ago I dyed my hair jet black)

he only liked girls to act "this" way. i was "that" way.

then when i turned 17-18 my hips filled out and he called me chunky. i gained some weight and became a huge size,

-a size 2/4. im 5'7 & almost 128lbs.

 

years of being told i was not perfect like her. or she turns me on,

yet if i dress or act like the same person he complimented on, i was slutty, bad and humiliating.

he would show attraction to certains girls and pointed out that i wasn't like them.

 

can you imagine what that did to my MIND!

 

I beleived him.

 

I hated myself, and was in horrible emotional pain.

eventually i started hating every girl that came into view.

i hated having sex with this man. i felt used and unloved.

He couldn't show affection or love until after we had sex. then he would feel warm & fuzzy towards me.

foreplay was grabbing my ass and saying "let's go".

unfortunately I was too young to realize he was afraid that if i knew how attractive and desireable i was i would leave him.

and in our early 20's he admitted this.

So crushing my selfesteem was the best way to keep me around.

 

I felt shame everytime a beautiful woman was on tv or walking by. because i would feel not up to these fabulous standards.

though other people thought i was just perfect, i was really tring to be his ideal person.

 

I became pissed if i found out he was wacking off to porn. He would turn it around

and tell me if i satified him once in awhile he wouldn't have to look at other women. we had sex everyday and after 10 years i cut it back to 4-5 times a week,but he said i didnt act like i really wanted it.

 

I started to yell at him, "stop looking at her", I got to the breaking point.

I became a raging psyco!

I sulked, cried, yelled, than i cheated on him, someone likes me, finally approval!

 

he told me the jealously issue was my problem and i have always been like this.

I wasn't like this before I met you.

Im not like this now that your gone.

 

im in a healthy relationship,its great, im happy and secure. not jealous at all.

athough ive been f@#*ed with for so long- I dont know what a good relationship is,

but im learning.

thanks for putting up with my post, i hope someone can gain from my story.

It helped to post it. letting go, feels good.

[gaia]

Wow, spencer, that's an impressive recovery from years of emotional abuse. I'm sure your story will give hope to a lot of people who might be thinking there's no way out.

Good on you.

[tac719]

Great post Spencer! Your life seems to almost mirror my currents wifes. She dated the same guy out of highschool and married him. He did the exact same things your ex did with you. Exactly. She to is very attractive. The only difference is my current wife is very afraid to face her demons. She also had a history with her father.

 

We went to a counseling group this weekend about boundaries. We both liked it, but she admitted she would not get into smaller groups and talk about our specific issues. She thinks she will be put on the spot about her jealousy and made to look like a bad person. She says that is why she has stopped her counseling before. This I tried to persuade to her would not happen. The groups are objective and understand everybody comes to the table with different issues. Maybe hers are to big. I just think she is to afraid, which is to bad.

[spencer]

tac19

i am so sorry your wife feels uncomfortable about discussing her issues.

the thing about this behavior is ..she has to own up to her actions ...but she doesn't have to 'own' her behavior.

i too, felt shame and embarrasment about my problems, but what i have done is to either blurt it out quickly before i change my mind, or start slowly and build up trust and security.

 

she can start by "this is what happened to me and this is how i reacted to it".

 

everyone has their problems which they are ashamed to speak of. she is not alone.

talking about it is the only way to get help for it.

 

I can assure your wife that the shame and embarrasment relating to talking about her issue is not as bad as living with it. nobody will think she is an awful person, especially one that reconizes that behavior is destructive and seeks to change it.

 

sorry about wanting to "slap your wife", i didn't know she had terrible things happen leading to this behavior. I too had issues with my father, (not sexual),is this a pattern? he came back from vietnam all messed up, drugs, alcohol,anger and violence. He would leave and not come back for weeks, one time he came back and thought he was jesus. oh well

good luck.

[tac719]

I agree. Like I've said in previous posts, I don't think she will change until she decides to tackle this head on and really wants to change. I believe she sees it as being normal now for her. She I believe is very ashamed of what happened to her in her past. I guess she sees it as a weakness on her part and is afraid others will to. She's given me bits and pieces of her childhood, the bad things that is. I think it would take a lot of therapy to help her forgive her past. The problem is the triggering effect. What will it be?

 

I sometimes think the pain going on inside her has got to be unbearable sometimes. I guess this is why I put up with so much. The ultimate nice guy. A buddy of mine told me before we got married during a very candid moment, he thought she would end up hurting me really bad.

[jmargel]

She has a masters in Child Psychology and she is doing this to her own daughter and you? She may need some medication to help her out along with counciling. Her daughter is going to resent her in her teenage years, and you two will both have problems.

 

As for the scantily clad women on TV. I couldn't be with someone who wasn't open to the idea that even though you are with someone, there are other attractive people out there and its ok to look. Me & my fiancee rented porn this weekend, and she wanted ones with all chicks. Just like her watching a naked guy on TV, what's the big deal? Once you turn off the TV you don't remember much about it. Just because you see a naked chick on TV or porn, it doesnt mean you want that person.

 

Anyway I would continue doing the counciling, sounds like she hasn't changed much from your last conversation with her, the way she was emotionally draining her daughter like that. Sounds more like a control and power issue. If she's not careful everyone in her life will be leaving her, and the only one she has to blame herself. Funny how her behaviour seems almost uncontrollable for herself, in which to control others.

[tac719]

I totally agree with you J. A relationship should be open and without jealousies. I would love to have a relationship like you have with your fiance. That is so great! You both trust each others feelings towards one another and understand how men and women are. Sounds like you have a "Drew Barrymore" type of lady.

 

Funny thing. My wife is working on obtaining a new account with her company, Adam & Eve products. She'll have to tour the factory and shmooze with the bosses. Do I have a problem with this? Hell no! I think it's cool. Told her to bring home some freebies. But... If we were to turn this around. The marriage would be over if I even associated with these people or so she would threaten. Definite control issues.

[spencer]

Originally posted by jmargel

As for the scantily clad women on TV. I couldn't be with someone who wasn't open to the idea that even though you are with someone, there are other attractive people out there and its ok to look. Me & my fiancee rented porn this weekend, and she wanted ones with all chicks. Just like her watching a naked guy on TV, what's the big deal? Once you turn off the TV you don't remember much about it. Just because you see a naked chick on TV or porn, it doesnt mean you want that person.

 

I dont believe that other women are the real the issue. I believe it is missplaced anger.

I think she needs to work through the real problem whether its ex-husband or dad. Then the jealousy will go away. I think this is a way for her to express her hatred with out having to deal with the other pain.

 

Originally posted by jmargel

Funny how her behaviour seems almost uncontrollable for herself, in which to control others. [/i]

good point.

I think this is beyond her ability to fix herself, therefore it's eaiser to control others.

not condoning this ...it just is sometimes. she doesn't believe there is another option.

[tac719]

I for a long time have thought it was missplaced anger regarding feelings she has for her father. I really believe there is a rage there. A father is supposed to defend and support a child. He did neither. I really didn't want to write this, but I probably need to so that I can put it into context.

 

Her father divorced her mom when she was a baby. They lived about 10 miles apart. Her mom would send her over there once a month or so for a weekend until she was about 11 and decided she wasn't going anymore. He would call her names like "broom hair" or comment on her being flat chested. She told me one time when she was asleep she remembered her father having some friends over and watching porn with them. She seems to remember them calling her names and that one j***ed off in front of her. Her father always said she was a stick. He had girlfriends that treated her really badly too.

 

She never told her mom about this for fear she would kill her dad. Her brother is 8 yrs older than her and was very upset when she started to visit her dad. He apparently to punish his son one time made him walk on glass. There are many things I'm sure she has never told me.

 

I know she has never confronted her father. He is still in their lives somewhat today. She still invites him for Christmas or Thanksgiving to exchange gifts. I have no love for this man. He comes across as pathetic to me. This Christmas she invited him again and he still has not come over. He tells her he's always broke and why doesn't she just get him a gift. He was supossed to come over this past Thanksgiving and didn't bother showing up after everybody sat and waited. She called him and found out he went to the beach with his girlfriend instead...

 

I have told her she needs to finally confront him and tell him what she thinks. She says he just doesn't care and it wouldn't make any difference. I think this lead to her first marriage with a man who was a lot like her father. Always comparing her to other women and cheating.

 

This is a big part of why I've stayed. I guess I've played what I felt was the rescuer. When I type that I become upset and very angry.

[spencer]

the picture becomes clear.

she 'needs' to control everything now. this stems from not being able to control things in her childhood.

one good read is Recovery, A Guide for Adult Children Of Alcoholics,

It doesn't matter if her dad is an alcoholic or not, regardless he sounds like one, when this type of person doesn't drink they are referred to as a dry drunk. same chaotic behavior.

 

Another i reccomend is The Courage To Heal, a guide for women survivors of child sexual abuse.

Finally if your not already overwelmed, you both should read:

The Verbally Abusive relationship & Codependant No More.

 

ironically my dad & stepmom gave me the 1st and the last book. very helpful.

these books are not cures they really only help identify common behaviors, and reaffirm some times when you start to relapse to old feelings and actions.

its most effective with individual therapy. and a top notch therapist will guide you towards solutions relatively quickly.

I should know after seeing one social worker, one phyciatrist, and 2 pyscotherapists, over the course of 20 years. I have redifined the term "couch potatoe".

 

tac- if she doesn't want to go to therapy, mabye you should go yourself and get the ball rolling.

[Mysticwolf]

She really needs to go for help... Health insurance does cover counseling... Check with your health coverage provider... They will tell you for sure.

 

Good luck

[tac719]

I didn't even put it in, but you're right he is an alcoholic.

[johan]

Man, tac,

 

I was interested in your response to my post, so I looked your posts up. You wouldn't have written what you wrote to me if you knew that my girlfriend is so much like your wife. And you respond to your wife so much like I do to my girlfriend that it's kind of eerie. I'm a little freaked out right now, after reading all your stuff. On the other hand, it's really a relief to me that you did all my typing for me already.

 

My girlfriend accuses me of smiling at women I don't even see. She bugs me all the time about women I know at work and the fact that I dress up for the office. She freaks out that I wear my contacts to work even. She says she wants to "FEEL" like she's the only one in my life. But I can't understand how she could feel any other way. And it just kills my passion, because I feel like she's dragging everything out of me. I don't even get a chance to express myself, and most of the time I don't really feel like it. I'm waiting for the clouds to go away for a while. And when I do something romantic, she responds with a kind of dull gratitude. Not the enthusiasm I would expect, given how much it bothers her when I'm not romantic. I buy her nice gifts, really from the heart, and she just wants to exchange them. I feel like "why try"? She tests my morals with probing questions and of course I can't give a right answer. She punches holes in everything I say. So I think the only thing to do is be totally honest with her

 

- of course people lie, even people you're close to, in fact I do it, and so does she, my mom and everyone else does, too. It's part of keeping things moving along. You just don't lie when it matters.

- of course relationships are risky, you never really know what's coming, but you have to know the person you're with is honest, open and willing to work things out. And if the person betrays you, you have to be strong and don't feel it was your fault that they couldn't keep a promise.

- of course there are other attractive people in the world, and I might even look at them.

- of course I smile at people, that's part of normal social interaction.

- of course I get to be friends with the people I work with, even the women. You kind of have to if want to be any good on a team. Just don't get too close, don't flirt, and save the hormones for the beautiful girl waiting at home.

- and of course I act differently around women from how I act around men, do I need to give her a lesson in sociology? She does it to, dammit. Babies do.

 

I don't think I need to describe the long twisting conversations that led to each one of those admissions, but before I said them I was still clinging to the frying pan. Those are just the most recent. There's a whole catalog. She's like a surgeon how she knows how to use them on me, exactly the right time and place and with the perfect amount of conviction that I truly am evil to my core.

 

She's so worried about being betrayed, she's hyper-sensitive and hyper-vigilant to everything. She has no close friends to speak of, except one she doesn't really care about or really respect. And it shocks me how caring and forgiving she can be with people she doesn't really know or respect. But not with me, the number one most important person in her life outside of her daughter. I feel like she loves herself, like this is all for her. All this control is so damn self-serving. Until I'm ready to burst into tears with frustration with her, she doesn't even notice how much it all hurts me. No empathy.

 

She isn't evil, she just has this problem. For a few days we don't have any problems and she's sweet and I love her SO much. And then a few days are kind of iffy. And and then we discuss and/or fight like like I said above. And then there is a recovery period back to the sweetness. It's a cycle.

 

Sometimes it seems like she does it on purpose. Like if we're fighting then we have a good reason for why things suck: we're fighting. But if we decided to just try to live in peace with no problems, she might find she's not really happy with that. And there would be no good reason for why things suck. Then we'd pretty much have to break up and go back to being single and lonely. Better to fight, because that gives us hope.

 

All this time I thought "we'll fix this, then we'll get married, and it will be heaven". But lately I've been thinking "we really aren't making much progress here." And then I read your post and thought "Unless I get to work now, it's likely that this will only intensify when we're married." I think I'll take a couple people's advice here, and stop letting her do this to me. I just feel bad that I still have a chance to fix it or leave, while I'll be wondering how it's going for you, Tac, because you're strapped in. I hope for the best for you. And me. And even more for your wife and my girlfriend who are tortured by this way more than you and I are.

[spencer]

tac, how about an update, things ok for you?