Why are single men generally more bitter than single women?

[ViciousViolet]

Huh, I never said I wasn't interested in brown girls. Check out my posts in the dating outside your race thread and my most recent post in the boobies size thread.

 

Okay, I gotcha;). I have a friend who looks a lot like Jada Fire. She's cool but I think Lacey Duvalle is much better:p.

[PJKino]

You're absolutely right. I understand the allure of height to women, but I don't get how some women can complain about the fascination with boob size but then turn around a only chase after guys who are 6'1 and above. Yet I am in no position to talk because most men are taller than me, even when I'm wearing heels:(.

 

I understand wanting somebody taller then you but i dont udnerstand women having to be towered over to feel feminine or whatever there reasoning..

 

I understand we have preferecnes but i cant understand how a guy can go from being attratcive having a nice face and body to unattractive because hes 2 or 3 less inches off the ground..

[Cracker Jack]

I get really uncomfortable when I hear women talk about needing a guy over a certain height, which is usually well above the height of your average male. I understand a woman wanting a guy taller than herself, but I don't understand needing a guy to be almost a foot taller than you. Does this make him a better mate? Honestly, it is their loss. I know that sounds cliche but it is true. Some of these women who discriminate against great guys because they aren't super tall are the same ones who will be alone years later. It is then that they'll drop their height requirements but guys like you will have moved on (hopefully).

 

I'm guessing it has something to do with that whole, "feeling safe from the dangers of the world when they're in the tall guys arms" or something.

 

I honestly do not resent the women that weren't attracted to my height, because you simply can't help what you're attracted to. But, to be honest, I'd rather be fed that "Sorry, you're a great guy, but not what a want" instead of simply "It's like dating my brother" or "Well, all of my men have been quite tall". Those, for lack of a better term, suck. I don't have much self-esteem to begin with, so those knocked me down a few levels.

 

And they weren't even strangers; they were women I've had some sort of connection with. If I try to talk to a woman who's a stranger and she says I'm not tall enough, I'd be annoyed, but over it quickly.

 

Hopefully I still have a chance with women, being 22 an all. Sometimes I feel like I need to prepare living the single life forever, as dreadful as that sounds.

[InceptorsRule]

For the past 16 years I've been rejected by every single girl I've ever been interested in.

 

Please quantify this.

 

How many girls--give a specific number--have you been interested in, in the past 16 years?

 

Then quantify the following:

 

How many of the above girls have you actually approached and asked out on a date?

 

If you'd approached as many as 20 different girls/year, or even only 10/year, you'd have gotten into a series of short and/or long term relationships by now, no matter how inept you perceive yourself.

 

20 girls x 16 years = 320 girls. 10 girls x 16 = 160 girls.

 

How many have you actually approached and asked out for dates? (Not just to hang out or be your friend in the hopes you could escalate the relationship to romance at some future point.)

 

I was generally very unconfident when I was dating. However by sheer force of numbers it's hard to imagine having less than a 10- 20% success rate when asking girls for dates. So that means you should have been able to get at least 10 -20 dates over the 16 years if you even tried. And out of 10-20 girls who were willing to date you it seems to me you should have been able to get 2, 3 or 4 semi-reasonable relationships.

 

I'll bet the answer is that you just don't ask that many girls out.

 

How many different girls have you actually asked out during the past year? The past month? The past week?

[jamesum]

I find women wearing high heels repulsive. I dont know why. It just looks weird to me. Its like they are walking on a pair of wood blocks.

[MrNate]

I must ask...what is intellect to you...? What would make someone intelligent enough for you to date...?

 

I was wondering the same thing. That's kind of a rough statement to make, especially when intellect is highly debatable, broad, and subjective.

 

Now in terms of being attracted to someone who rivals your level of intellect, that I understand.

Edited August 19, 2010 by MrNate

[CaliGuy]

I find it bizarre. At least from the sample that posts on LS.

 

I don't find that most long term single women display man-hating attributes.

 

 

Yet, long term single men display so much bitterness and hatred, towards women in particular that they end up poisoning every thread on here.

 

Lots of us are in the same boat (regardless of the gender). Why hate?

 

I've seen it displayed brilliantly from both sexes so I don't think it's fair to say one sex has it worse than others.

 

They both are equal in this IME.

[somedude81]

Please quantify this.

 

How many girls--give a specific number--have you been interested in, in the past 16 years?

 

Then quantify the following:

 

How many of the above girls have you actually approached and asked out on a date?

I don't become interested in a girl unless I've spoken to her on at least three occasions. When I do fall for a girl, I'm into her for as long as I'm around her. Since I usually meet women at school, I'm into a girl for about four months on average. It's rare for me to have eyes for more than one girl at a time, though recently I've started to be able to be into more than one girl at a time. I much prefer to get to know a girl before I ask her out. I am not the kind of guy who's going to approach a random girl and ask her out. I have a huge fear of rejection and I pretty much expect it, which makes it hard to ask girls out.

 

So keeping those factors in mind, from 13 years old to 29, I've been interested in about 30 girls. I'd say I've tried to romantically pursue about 20 of them. Some I was able to become friends with, the others flat out rejected me.

 

This year, I was interested in and talking to seven girls, which is much higher than my average. I got to know some girls better than others. I've invited three girls out to lunch and met with two of them, just a casual get to know each other thing. I had two real dates with one. She's now ignoring me for reasons I can't figure out.

 

I'd say over the years I've had real dates, not hanging out as friends, with three girls. One of those girls is the only girl I've ever kissed. She also came on to me and basically pursued me. I would not have gone out with her if she didn't do all the work. She left after two weeks.

 

So actually asking out or telling a girl my interest resulted in me having dates with two girls. So 2 out of 20, that's a .1 or 10% success rate. I went on only one date with the first and two with the second. So I've been on three real dates in my life. All three ended with a hug

Edited August 19, 2010 by somedude81

[zengirl]

I must ask...what is intellect to you...? What would make someone intelligent enough for you to date...?

 

Being intellectual has little to do with actual intelligence, though I do seek both in a mate. My comment on anti-intellectualism is more about the societal pressures to not be "too smart" or hide intellectual pursuits, about how people prefer others to be more "average guy - like me." You can look at several modern political races for how this plays out, or movies/TV shows for cliche types, or you can just listen to many people's comments anywhere. I don't mind, in general, people who have low intelligence or aptitude for something (I may not find them romantically attractive) but I do mind anyone who doesn't have intellectual curiosity and a desire to learn and improve their mind to its fullest capacity. We need to be fostering this more in our society, as it's how we make a society full of smart, interesting people who solve major problems and invent fantastic things.

 

Too many people who are insecure about their intelligence or lacking in a certain kind turn it into anti-intellectualism. This, to me, is silly. I don't put down potentially useful qualities just because I don't have them. When I say "anti-intellectual" this is what I mean.

 

Now, intelligent enough to date? Well, I'd only date someone who was intellectually curious (this quality), had intellect (knowledge that had been amassed on a subject or subjects), and was intelligent in some way. There are many intelligences. I generally date very smart men. Some have been smarter than others, and after a certain point, it's not a big deal. But I particularly like quick minds and people who enjoy intellectual pursuits and feel the need to constantly use their minds.

 

I was wondering the same thing. That's kind of a rough statement to make, especially when intellect is highly debatable, broad, and subjective.

 

Now in terms of being attracted to someone who rivals your level of intellect, that I understand.

 

The latter is more my personal attraction. My issues with anti-intellectualism stem from many things, including the fact that I work in education and I see issues with how the system is set up to actually discourage intellectual curiosity in some cases. It's frightening to me.

[NYCmitch25]

I find it bizarre. At least from the sample that posts on LS.

 

I don't find that most long term single women display man-hating attributes.

 

 

Yet, long term single men display so much bitterness and hatred, towards women in particular that they end up poisoning every thread on here.

 

Lots of us are in the same boat (regardless of the gender). Why hate?

 

(cough) Um because these men are single for a reason . (cough)

 

PS> pass the happy tissues ...

[InceptorsRule]

I find women wearing high heels repulsive. I dont know why. It just looks weird to me. Its like they are walking on a pair of wood blocks.

 

Some women don't look good in them. Others look awesome. It depends on the girl.

[InceptorsRule]

I don't become interested in a girl unless I've spoken to her on at least three occasions.

 

Chicken, meet egg. Egg, chicken.

 

So you don't get interested until you talk to them? What makes you talk to them in the first place?

 

When I said "interested" obviously I meant girls that you did not know previously. I mean "interested" as in: "Hey that blonde over there looks fairly attractive. I wonder if she has a boyfriend?"

 

But what you're saying is the hottest babe in creation could plop herself down in your lap (actually that type of stuff does happen at parties from time to time) and you WON'T be interested in her unless and until you've spoken with her on three separate occasions?

 

That's craziness, man. Your definition of "interest" is absurdly narrow IMO. If you're waiting until you've had three conversations with a girl before even being "interested" in her, no wonder you're having problems. Who ever taught you this particular dating strategy? It is the "interest" which motivates you to have the interactions with the girl--not the other way around.

 

 

 

When I do fall for a girl, I'm into her for as long as I'm around her. Since I usually meet women at school, I'm into a girl for about four months on average.

 

I DID NOT SAY how many girls do you "fall for." We are not talking "fall for."

 

 

 

It's rare for me to have eyes for more than one girl at a time, though recently I've started to be able to be into more than one girl at a time.

 

Why is it so hard for you to see more than one girl as desirable? You're on a college campus, there must be tons of good looking young women there. All you have to do is sit under a tree eating your lunch and you will likely see 20 attractive girls walk by.

 

 

 

I much prefer to get to know a girl before I ask her out.

 

Too bad. Chicken egg again. If you're spending a lot of time getting to know a woman before expressing a romantic interest in her by asking her out on a date, then you're most likely repeatedly friend-zoning yourself.

 

 

 

I am not the kind of guy who's going to approach a random girl and ask her out.

 

Well that's sensible, but there's a large intermediate space between "Jumping out from behind a bush and pulling down her panties" and "Three or more conversations with". If you're not currently going out with the women that you already know, THEN BY LOGICAL PROCESS OF ELIMINATION, you are FORCED to go out with WOMEN THAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

 

THERE'S no other choice, is there?

 

 

I have a huge fear of rejection and I pretty much expect it, which makes it hard to ask girls out.

 

Finally you're getting at what I suspected, you just don't ask that many girls out. You've got all kinds of excuses but it boils down to the fear, which ALL of us have except the studs. Yes IT IS HARD. VERY VERY HARD. But the point is IT'S WORTH IT.

 

Contemplate this--to do something that is very scary and difficult because the potential reward is well worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

So keeping those factors in mind, from 13 years old to 29, I've been interested in about 30 girls.

 

Again as I suspected--you've excluded EVERYONE from consideration as possible dating material, over 16 years, EXCEPT 30 girls? C'mon that's ridiculous. You could easily ask thirty girls out and not get a single date out of that. No wonder you're having trouble. That's less than two girls per year!

 

 

 

I'd say I've tried to romantically pursue about 20 of them. Some I was able to become friends with, the others flat out rejected me.

 

20 over 16 years is roughly ONE girl per year. To the first degree of approximation/order of magnitude it could just as well be ZERO girls a year. INCARCERATED PRISONERS get more dates than that.

 

 

 

This year, I was interested in and talking to seven girls, which is much higher than my average. I got to know some girls better than others. I've invited three girls out to lunch and met with two of them, just a casual get to know each other thing. I had two real dates with one. She's now ignoring me for reasons I can't figure out.

 

Not enough. You need much bigger numbers of attempts. You need to be talking to different women EVERY DAY. LOTS of them. You need to redefine what "interest" means to the following: "She looks physically attractive to me and I would like to get to know her/date her if possible."

 

 

I'd say over the years I've had real dates, not hanging out as friends, with three girls. One of those girls is the only girl I've ever kissed. She also came on to me and basically pursued me. I would not have gone out with her if she didn't do all the work. She left after two weeks.

 

Most likely because you were just too inexperienced and awkward to know what to do next. YOU NEED LOTS MORE PRACTICE. The ONLY way you will get practice is just by hitting on as many girls as possible, however fearful you are of rejection. IT'S THE ONLY WAY. I'm truly sorry but as far as I know this is a total numbers game and you just have to try harder.

 

So actually asking out or telling a girl my interest resulted in me having dates with two girls. So 2 out of 20, that's a .1 or 10% success rate. I went on only one date with the first and two with the second. So I've been on three real dates in my life. All three ended with a hug

 

EXACTLY!!!!! That's just what I said. Even you, totally inept, inexperienced, and with zero "game", got 10% of the girls you asked out to date you!!!!

 

Do you get it yet??? It's all a numbers game. You are guaranteed success if you just give yourself a fair chance. You are simply not interacting with enough girls to give yourself a fair chance of success.

[Sphere]

Why do people use the word success when it comes to women? I don't think women define a man who is successful.

[somedude81]

So you don't get interested until you talk to them? What makes you talk to them in the first place?

 

When I said "interested" obviously I meant girls that you did not know previously. I mean "interested" as in: "Hey that blonde over there looks fairly attractive. I wonder if she has a boyfriend?"

 

If you're waiting until you've had three conversations with a girl before even being "interested" in her, no wonder you're having problems

I think we are confusing the meaning of interested.

 

"Hey that blonde over there looks fairly attractive. I wonder if she has a boyfriend?" In that situation I’d be curious about her. I’d wonder if she’s cool. So I go and talk to her to find out what she’s like. At this point I’ll have no interest in asking her out. Though if she is cool I’ll want to talk to her again the next time we run into each other. It may take some time to have a decent conversation with her.

 

If I like who she is, I’ll ask her out. So what is wrong with waiting till I had a few conversations before I ask somebody out?

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that in the past it usually took me several months between 3 and 5 to ask somebody out. I know that’s an obscene amount of time. This year I’ve managed to do it in two months and this summer I did it in one. I know I still need to speed it up.

 

But what you're saying is the hottest babe in creation could plop herself down in your lap (actually that type of stuff does happen at parties from time to time) and you WON'T be interested in her unless and until you've spoken with her on three separate occasions?

I’d talk to her but really nothing more than that. Also I rarely go to parties since I never hear of them.

 

If you're spending a lot of time getting to know a woman before expressing a romantic interest in her by asking her out on a date, then you're most likely repeatedly friend-zoning yourself.

Yeah the friendzone is a huge problem for me. Except for the couple of girls I’ve went on dates with, every girl I hung out with was in a friendzone situation. What’s pissing me off is that girls will spend time with me, without realizing I’m interested in them. I really wish I had a way to tell whether they are spending time with because they are interested in me or as a friend.

 

I pretty much don’t know how to express romantic interest. To me, taking the time to talk to her and asking her out is expressing romantic interest. If I wasn’t interested in a girl I wouldn’t invite her to do anything with me. Unfortunately women don’t see things that way and foolishly believe that a single guy would want to just be their friend.

 

Well that's sensible, but there's a large intermediate space between "Jumping out from behind a bush and pulling down her panties" and "Three or more conversations with". If you're not currently going out with the women that you already know, THEN BY LOGICAL PROCESS OF ELIMINATION, you are FORCED to go out with WOMEN THAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

 

THERE'S no other choice, is there?

You lost me here. Of course there is a huge difference. I don’t like going out with strangers, I rather get a feel for them first. That usually happens at work or at school when I’ve been able to talk to them a couple of times.

 

Again as I suspected--you've excluded EVERYONE from consideration as possible dating material, over 16 years, EXCEPT 30 girls?

 

You need much bigger numbers of attempts. You need to be talking to different women EVERY DAY. LOTS of them

My method is in need of some refinement but I’m not sure what steps to do or if they’re possible now.

 

The vast majority of women I’ve been interested in I’ve met at school or work. I haven’t had a job in about a year so right now I’m only meeting girls at school. My social life sucks so I’m pretty much limited to only meeting girls in class. The only time I’m really able to talk to a girl is before a class. Summer school is great because they have breaks in-between classes.

 

To break it down, it works like this. I go to a class and see who the hot girls are and try to gauge how obtainable they may be. The next time class meets I pick a seat next to her. If a class is not a lecture hall, the girl usually sits in the same seat she was in last time. I may or may not talk to her that day. Breaking the ice is terrifying but I’m getting better at it. Assuming I said something, it will usually be a very quick thing and we’ll end up exchanging names. The next class meeting I’ll ask her how her weekend was and from that conversation I can find out a lot about her including what she likes to do and if she’s single. The next time we talk I can ask her out.

 

Assuming class meets twice a week, the whole process would take at least two weeks and it’s only one girl per class. That’s the best case scenario I could talk to more girls but it adds a delay in how long it takes to ask her out. Of course if there is something I don’t like about a girl or if she’s taken I move on.

 

This semester I’m going to try and mix things up by joining some clubs and trying to get the right connection so I can go to parties. I got a feeling that things will pick up this year. School starts in only ten days.

 

Other than that I don’t see how I can talk to a different girl every day. At this point I’m not going to bother talking to random girls I see walking around.

 

YOU NEED LOTS MORE PRACTICE. The ONLY way you will get practice is just by hitting on as many girls as possible, however fearful you are of rejection. IT'S THE ONLY WAY. I'm truly sorry but as far as I know this is a total numbers game and you just have to try harder.

I know I need a lot more practice. A big part of that is getting over the fear and just ask out a girl without worrying if she likes me. There were three girls I wanted to ask out last semester and I was just too scared to do it. Of course by not asking them out, I guaranteed that nothing will happen.

 

I also learned that I’m also pretty terrible on dates and need a lot of practice for those as well before I’d get anywhere with a girl.

 

It’s amazing how difficult this whole thing is. Girls have it so freaking easy.

 

Why do people use the word success when it comes to women? I don't think women define a man who is successful.

 

Because getting a woman can be an accomplishment. Girls aren’t passed out. The average man has to put in a lot of work get a girl. For some it’s much harder than others. If you get a girl you win.

[Mad Max]

Because dating is ALOT harder for men than it is for women. Men are expected to take all the initiatives and do all the pursuing, women don't have to put in any effort to find a guy because you don't have to do anything, you never have to take any initiatives.

 

 

I think it's slowly starting to change. I think women are realizing that they do need to take at least some initiative(perhaps even making the first move). To expect the man to do everything isn't traditional, it's sexist.

[MrNate]

I think it's slowly starting to change. I think women are realizing that they do need to take at least some initiative(perhaps even making the first move). To expect the man to do everything isn't traditional, it's sexist.

 

Care to expand on that? I'm curious to know as to why this may be the case.

[MrNate]

P.s. to Mad Max: Nevermind. After reading it, I see what you were getting at. haha my bad.

[zengirl]

I think it's slowly starting to change. I think women are realizing that they do need to take at least some initiative(perhaps even making the first move). To expect the man to do everything isn't traditional, it's sexist.

 

I agree. Frankly, you get better men by approaching them usually. Generally, the best of men have some reticence coming up to a gal they find attractive (and they may risk it sometimes, of course, but why rely on sometimes if you see a fellow you'd like to go out with?).

[Mad Max]

I agree. Frankly, you get better men by approaching them usually. Generally, the best of men have some reticence coming up to a gal they find attractive (and they may risk it sometimes, of course, but why rely on sometimes if you see a fellow you'd like to go out with?).

 

 

I think the better ones are the ones that don't approach. Not every guy that approaches is garbage, but the decent ones generally don't make the first move. Always better to take initiative, man or woman.

[somedude81]

I've been approached by a very small number of women in my life. The two girls that were blatantly obvious were obese and once I got to know them better, had serious self-esteem issues.

 

High quality girls, know they are desired so they don't have to approach. If they are interested in a guy all the really have to do is be friendly and maybe flirt a bit. Their biggest problem is actually filtering out the guys that come to them.

[Mad Max]

I've been approached by a very small number of women in my life. The two girls that were blatantly obvious were obese and once I got to know them better, had serious self-esteem issues.

 

High quality girls, know they are desired so they don't have to approach. If they are interested in a guy all the really have to do is be friendly and maybe flirt a bit. Their biggest problem is actually filtering out the guys that come to them.

 

 

With that attitude, those girls are the only ones that will lose out. In my case, the ones that approached me were the promiscuous ones. Often, the most physically attractive girls are not high quality.

[zengirl]

I've been approached by a very small number of women in my life. The two girls that were blatantly obvious were obese and once I got to know them better, had serious self-esteem issues.

 

High quality girls, know they are desired so they don't have to approach. If they are interested in a guy all the really have to do is be friendly and maybe flirt a bit. Their biggest problem is actually filtering out the guys that come to them.

 

Depends on what you mean by approach. When I approach a man, I'm usually not even sure I'll go out with him yet --- I mean, he may turn out to be a blithering idiot within 2 seconds of talking to him. I generally mean, "Go talk to the guy." Make it clear you'd go out with him.

 

I'm an attractive woman. Many men approach me. This actually makes it harder for the fellows I want to approach me because they see the fellows that are approaching me and think, "Wow, she's turning down everyone; she must not want to talk to men," or "Well, she's already talking to that fellow" or "Well, if that fellow can't get her attention, what have I got to offer?" Now, if I dug hardcore alpha-males with inflated self-egos, this would not become an issue, but I really don't.

[somedude81]

Depends on what you mean by approach. When I approach a man, I'm usually not even sure I'll go out with him yet --- I mean, he may turn out to be a blithering idiot within 2 seconds of talking to him. I generally mean, "Go talk to the guy." Make it clear you'd go out with him.

That's what I mean. The woman going up to the guy and starting a conversation. She may also verbalize her interest or making it glaringly obvious.

 

An attractive woman doesn't have to do anything as men will find her.

 

I'm an attractive woman. Many men approach me. This actually makes it harder for the fellows I want to approach me because they see the fellows that are approaching me and think, "Wow, she's turning down everyone; she must not want to talk to men," or "Well, she's already talking to that fellow" or "Well, if that fellow can't get her attention, what have I got to offer?" Now, if I dug hardcore alpha-males with inflated self-egos, this would not become an issue, but I really don't.

Heh what a predicament. Not having the guys you want talk to you because somebody else is already talking to you. Of course that's easily solved by putting in a small amount of effort, which you're already aware of.

 

What different worlds men and women live in. And the OP actually wondered why men were bitter.

[zengirl]

That's what I mean. The woman going up to the guy and starting a conversation. She may also verbalize her interest or making it glaringly obvious.

 

An attractive woman doesn't have to do anything as men will find her.

 

Heh what a predicament. Not having the guys you want talk to you because somebody else is already talking to you. Of course that's easily solved by putting in a small amount of effort, which you're already aware of.

 

What different worlds men and women live in. And the OP actually wondered why men were bitter.

 

Believe it or not, it took me awhile (after my HS sweetheart who I dated for years and years and who was awesome but obviously this stuff doesn't factor in in HS) to figure out WHY the men who were approaching me were all not my cuppa and many were jerks. And why the good fellows weren't approaching me. It seems obvious now, but I had to learn it. Now that I know it? No predicament. Before I figured out what was happening? Major frustration.

 

There are men who have good luck and women who have bad luck. I happen to be a woman who is not short of men approaching her. I know men who get approached by plenty of gals/rarely shot down when they approach too. I also know men and women with horrible luck for various reasons and in various ways.

 

Understand that there are plenty of women who feel like they live in different "dating worlds" than I do, too.

[somedude81]

Believe it or not, it took me awhile (after my HS sweetheart who I dated for years and years and who was awesome but obviously this stuff doesn't factor in in HS) to figure out WHY the men who were approaching me were all not my cuppa and many were jerks.

Interesting.

 

So you not only had to figure out why you weren't getting approached by the men you were interested in but also why you were getting hit on by jerks. It's also safe to assume that you weren't the only girl that went through this.

 

My question is; what is worse, getting approached by the wrong guys, or not getting any attention at all?

 

My guess is, no attention is by far the worst. That's why girls go out with guys who are bad for them. But just because the guy was bad for her, doesn't mean that good things didn't happen. She could have gained relationship experience, felt love, deep connection and passion. Of course she had to get some enjoyment out of it or else she wouldn't be with the guy. With no attention, none of those things would have happened.

 

The gender that lives with the latter is more often than not men. There is a sadness that comes from the feeling of not fully experiencing life, both the good and the bad.