Forcing Dday. Things to consider?

[jj33]

SG if you really want to tell because it will end it and you dont feel like there is any other way to stop the madness in your life, then do it. If you do it as an apology of sorts, then its not unkind to her as you are handing all of him back to him with full knowledge of the situation and it is an act of self preservation.

 

As for him leaving someday who knows. I l believed that for the longest time. He used to say if he would have left, t would have been to be with me and for a very long time I beleived that one day he would if not to be with me, then to be with someone else. But here he is, still there.... and its several years later in a very similar situation (resigned to living out their days together even as they live separate lives).

 

I know you are very frustrated. I hope you find some peace tonite.

 

Big hugs

[turnstone]

One of the reasons I had thought about telling his wife was to 'burn my bridges'. To put myself in the position whereby there is no return. I feel his wife deserves to know (from him, but if not then from me) and that will most likely lead to my ending contact with MM forever. Hence, no third chance for MM and I.

 

SG, do you know for sure that it would end the affair permanently? There's been a few stories here where the affair has been exposed and after a period of quiet in which the MM has reassured his W that the OW is obsessed/delusional/mad, comes creeping back and the affair resumes.

 

I realise you need some sort of resolution about this and that you know this current scenario is not doing you any good, but I wonder if what you are suggesting by bringing D Day to a head will actually provide you with something better.

[silverplanets]

I've had loads of kindness and sincerity on this thread, I am REALLY grateful because it's meant I've been better able to see the points put across.

 

I am reading, and re-reading. I want to do whatever I decide to do once and once only and to be as sure as I can.

 

 

SG - you've always come across as level headed and self aware. Having emotions for your mm does not change that and I am sure you are more than able to process all advice, consider it from all points and make your end choices based on what you know, what you want and your priorities.

 

I am now not far from where I have been previously and I'm cross with myself about that.

 

For the first bit in bold ... yes it's true you're not far from your previous position if you look at in just in terms of "getting mm" BUT in terms of YOU then I would challenge that view. From your time on here, your self analysis, thinking it through etc you are considerably moved on from your prev position. You are now more aware of the typical scenarios for these things, aware that you are not alone in this situation and increasingly aware that the need is to focus on your needs ... not his situation.

 

Also, you decided to let him back in again and see how it went .. that's YOU in control .. not the other way around.

 

On being cross with yourself .. then it's worth listening to that feeling and understanding it. What is it coming from?

 

From one angle you have nothing to be cross about .. he came back and you thought about it and (with awareness from LS etc) made a decision to let him back into your life. So far the outcome of that decision has not been optimum. Recognising this doesn not require you to be cross with yourself .... you've given someone you love an extra chance ... there's nothing to be cross for.

 

You made a choice out of love to give him a second chance. You also have a right to review that decision at any point. If he's not delivered on your expectations then don't be cross at yourself, or him, just accept that you are a loving person who chose to give you and him another chance but that the reality is that you need more from any life partner.

 

One of the reasons I had thought about telling his wife was to 'burn my bridges'. To put myself in the position whereby there is no return.

 

I understand this, but what "hold" in reality does he have over you that simply SG saying "no" will not suffice. This reads like you need to burn the bridges so that he can't force you to get back with him ... which, reading a little deeper, implies that you don't trust yourself to say no and mean it.

 

So my question would be, why does SG not trust SG to say no?????

 

If SG says "no" because it is not right for SG ... then why are you worried that SG will then give in because he wants you back for his needs? (or also, why are you worried that you will return to him to fill some other need in you).

 

Maybe this is a SG says No with her head but not with her heart type issue ... and i understand that ... however, wouldn't it be much more liberating for SG to stand up for herself and camly (and consistently) say NO .... even if that means controlling SG's behaviour as well?

 

Standing up for yourself and putting yourself first is a wonderful, liberating feeling.

 

I feel his wife deserves to know (from him, but if not then from me) and that will most likely lead to my ending contact with MM forever. Hence, no third chance for MM and I. However, I still believe he will leave her one day. I believe that firmly. What I cannot be sure of is whether it's next month or ten years time, and that's where the self-preservation must kick in.

 

Maybe she should know, maybe not. I challenge you as to what it's got to do with you though. The time for telling out of anger was when you ended it first. This time you chose to let him back in knowing his situation and so therefore I can't see what complaint you actually have.

 

On the second part, maybe he will leave it, maybe not .. then yes, maybe .... or no, maybe not .... BUT what on earth has it got to do with you.

 

You are not his counsellor, his mother, his wife or any of these things ... and you are not hers either.

 

SG is responsible for SG, mm is responsible for MM and mm's wife is responsible for mm's wife.

 

 

 

I know I've said it before but I am so grateful, for all the posts, comments AND the hugs. Need a hug right now Many thanks

 

I have nothing but hugs for you SG ... you've thought it all through, been aware of the situation and even though he hurt you before you valued the chance of love with him enough to wander down that path again.

 

I still hope it works out the way you want it, but if it doesn't then I'd never be cross with you .... how can you be cross with someone for giving what is important to them another chance?

 

Equally, how can you do anything but hug someone when taking a chance for love doesn't work out. You thought you (and he) was worth it ... and whether it works out or doesn't .. that still means you get the biggest hug in the world in my book.

 

be safe and never forget how wonderful and unique we all are (including you !! )

 

Chris

[Hazyhead]

I've had loads of kindness and sincerity on this thread, I am REALLY grateful because it's meant I've been better able to see the points put across.

 

I am reading, and re-reading. I want to do whatever I decide to do once and once only and to be as sure as I can. I am now not far from where I have been previously and I'm cross with myself about that.

 

One of the reasons I had thought about telling his wife was to 'burn my bridges'. To put myself in the position whereby there is no return. I feel his wife deserves to know (from him, but if not then from me) and that will most likely lead to my ending contact with MM forever. Hence, no third chance for MM and I. However, I still believe he will leave her one day. I believe that firmly. What I cannot be sure of is whether it's next month or ten years time, and that's where the self-preservation must kick in.

 

I know I've said it before but I am so grateful, for all the posts, comments AND the hugs. Need a hug right now Many thanks

 

(((((((SG)))))))

 

I completely understand your frustration - like has been mentioned, limbo is Hell. I've said time and again that I don't know how long term OW (of whom want to be with MM full time) do it. The part I have bolded above is exactly how I felt towards the end of the A - I just wanted to be free from pain one way or another (naively believing I would be). Dday happened anyway and the A did end. It was/is so incredibly tough to deal with - the loss of a loved one and, to be honest, the feeling of rejection that he wouldn't fight for me despite separating with his W. BUT, I am better off knowing this than hanging on in hope, because I too believed he would leave for me.

 

Can you see yourself continuing to cope with the status quo? If not, do as you feel would be best for you. There's nothing I can add to the already excellent advice here.

 

One thing though, I know you love him but you're such a catch that it is a shame you aren't with someone who gets to appreciate you full time. If you do this, the hurt will be immense, but you will heal. It's a long road (six months later I thought I was doing well but the tears surprised me this morning) but it gets easier and less painful with time.

[Silly_Girl]

The example above is sooooo NOT normal SG, but you know that.

 

Sounds like a very twisted sick dynamic they both have going on in that house.

 

Yes, I agree. But it doesn't start out like that, does it. It happens slowly, slowly, over a dozen years. I see lots of relationships and think 'you wouldn't catch me in that!!!', sometimes it's true, but more often it's not so cut and dried. But you're right, it's not healthy and he's only now beginning to see that for himself. You could say that's his issue, there's something wrong with him for not seeing it. He denied it for ages, to himself. Hindisght's fantastic.

 

Hey we've all done some twisted crazy things while in a relationship that was dysfunctional but where is the line for him? Is there a line? Are you sure you want to take on all the issues that he is going to have to work through to get to a healthy normal place?

 

Hhhmmm. That's a really good point. But you see, I am in an odd (deluded??!) position where I don't see these aspects of him with his parents, colleagues, me, friends, anyone. It appears to be them. I am not saying there aren't other traits, but the discoveries he's made, things he recognises now about his own life, the insight he shows with regards others relationships. I'm not worried. Perhaps I should be. Perhaps love IS blind.

 

I'm curious, but when he 1st married her, did he think he was in love with her and did he think they would have a normal relationship or did he know partially what he was signing up for? (The Crazy)

 

They worked together, were part of a large group in their late twenties, similar education, background, leisure interests. Sort of 'ended up' together. That progressed. He believed sex would come after marriage. He knew she was unusually independent, and he was hurt when she refused to take him surname when they married, but she convinced him it was not an issue. In later years there have been many things that at the time he thought he was compromising (a good thing) but now he sees it as a negative process. And these things built up over time. Of course.

 

OK SG, I get it. You love him, in spite of his faults - which is certainly a necessary part of true love.

 

Ha ha!

 

You are self aware enough to know what you can deal with.

 

Can one of you handle confrontation enough to hold the other's hand while you do it together throughout life?

 

This is where I love how he and I complement each other. I can be impetuous, bold, blunt (rude! - I know, hard to believe huh?! ) and he is not those things. I love how we know each other so well, how we react to things and share workplace stories with how very differently the other would have dealt with it. We really enjoy the differences in lots of ways. When we've made decisions or discussed things we both feel we reach the perfect resolution between us. I love that.

 

Possibly sitting down together with his wife and telling her will do all of the following:

 

Allow her to know the truth, not a version of it.

Allow her to make her own life decisions based on the real truth.

Allow him to face confrontation with a partner who can show him how it is done while holding his hand.

Allow him to learn first hand, to feel the relief that follows truth and confrontation.

Allow him to move forward making decisions without the cloud of having to lie.

Allow you to deal with those decisions knowing they were made by him and if not by him - by someone who is at least dealing with the real truth and not a version of it.

 

Now, I realize that no one in any kind of professional capacity ( therapist, lawyer, cop) would ever recommend the two of you siding up together against his BS....

 

But really this case is different. This MM is not capable of telling her the truth (either because he is a natural coward or natural liar, whatever) ...

The only people making decisions here are YOU and the BS.

He, on his own, is almost a non participant.

 

2sure, I really respect and appreciate the fact you even wrote those things about a potential solution. I feel as you do. It's wrnog, wrong, wrong to take that approach. But maybe that's how it has to be. I'm not keen, but I'd bluddy do it if that's what it took, I know I would.

 

But him being a non-participant. Oooh. You're right. And I don't really like the concept!

 

SG you've gotten so many good responses Im not sure I am adding anything new but here goes, another country heard from.

 

It always scares me when people cant take responsibility for their actions, their feelings their choices. If he cant now, can he in the future when the two of you have conflicts in your relationship. How will he handle that? Will he feel emasculated on some level, even if he doesnt express it directly because he is an ace conflict avoider?

 

Good point. He does talk about this stuff, the impact on each of them etc. I think I should raise exactly that point. So far we've talked about how it would be best for his wife to be told, directly, in person, by him. But yes, it would benefit him too. If he could grow the equipment required...

 

To me a marriage is something that must be ended by the parties. If someone else does it, its just not the same.

 

Yep.

 

If you tell as OWoman said you are depriving him of hte opportunity to grow and to get to the point where he can act on his own behalf.

 

Its not significant to me that he didnt mention the A to her. He said he wanted out she said Im not going anywhere and guilted him into staying (a shorthand of what I understand you have said is the situation) why would the fact that hes with you change that?

 

We pre-agreed for him not to tell her about it. And it was important to him that I wasn't implicated after he'd promised. I believe now that was an error of judgement on both our parts but I bear no ill will towards him on it. Him being with me would change because she always maintained he'd never find anyone else, much less anyone who (for example) would want to marry him. She thought he was going in an attempt to elicit a sex life and she said 'it's not happening, you knew that, I told you two/three years ago, you can't abandon me now, I came back for you, I work hard to be a good wife for you, I'm 40 now, this is the wrong time for me', etc etc etc etc.

 

Firstly, I believe truth works, in almost any and all situations. If you are and bad stuff happens. Tough sh#t, that's life, don't beat yourself up too much. If you lie and weave and hurt etc, it's not good, no good will come of it. So I already think she should know.

 

Secondly, it confused the hell out of her that just as they seem to be less tense and she's made it clear she's staying for keeps, he says he's leaving. I may hate her (I do not) or I may think she's the greatest person to have lived, but that must be hard to not understand that. It will at least make things clear for her.

 

Thirdly, knowing I exist may make her loosen her grasp. She may turn tail. Personally, I think she'll hang on harder but I suspect that knowing he's getting a sex life elsewhere and sex and kids are things she can never EVER give him, I have an inkling she may use it as a trigger to draw a line under everything and go and get what SHE wants from life.

 

She has resigned herself to living out her days with him, who knows if she will care about the A (ala the A I was in) It appears you are hoping that a sexless marriage with an H who is faithful is OK but a cheating H is not? She may not care.

 

That's true. That shouts Open Marriage to me. No thanks. That still requires MM to knot his little hankie round the edge of his stick and make moves with his feet.

 

Would you be doing this with his consent? or would you be charging in like HIS KISA to save the day and do what he has felt unable to do?

 

In that case it would be you and the W duking it out while he continues to sit on the sidelines of his life letting the women deal with the conflict.

 

Yuk. However, a little bit of me has wondered several times that if the genders were reversed it wouldn't be QUITE so distasteful... Maybe that's just me.

 

Taken to its logical conclusion, you would then contact the divorce attorney, make the appointments essentially lead him by the nose (or the scruff of his collar like a dog skidding on teh sidewalk) through his divorce. I assume hes not THAT hapless and I am exaggerating for effect but boiled down to its essence that is what it sounds like.

 

Its fine for women to be the more powerful spouse in a relationship but I would really worry if you have to be the one to drop the bomb. You say you dont mind doing the heavy lifting in the relationship but this is not your burden to carry this is HIS marriage and for whatever reason he isnt taking steps to end it or to start the separation period that would lead to divorce without grounds. He caves when she says, er no that is not what we are doing (slap slap). We are staying married (you sure we arent talking about the same guy).

 

My personal view would be dont do it. Stay with him, enjoy your relationship but dont do it. If it comes from you it may accomplish nothing and my harm all parties involved without doing any good and if it does "get you your man" it may be at a greater cost to you down the line as OWoman explained so well.

 

The idea that telling would be altruistic because it could bring them closer is (much as I think you are fab) IMHO tosh. Its not your place IMHO. Its a last ditch effort to end your frustration with the situation - do or die. If I lose him I do but I cant live this way anymore.

 

I see why you say that. But I also see lots of BS's who say that they use it as a platform, that things improved. What gets my goat is how these 2 adults refuse to be honest with each other, about almost anything. And I genuinely thought that if nothing else this would force them to either decide they actually DO have something worth fighting for and get their asses down to the local Relate offices, or accept that things did not grow between them as they expected, and part ways and seek happiness elsewhere. Not sure why that sounds like tosh, makes sense to me.

 

I know you are frustrated.

 

Big hugs

 

Edited to add - 2Sure and I cross posted and she said it well if you tell he is not really a participant. Its not a good situation SG.

 

Thanks, you lovely peoples.

[Silly_Girl]

I have started and stopped several responses as I've kept up with this thread the past few days. Every time I start typing out my opinion, I pull back because it goes against what I would normally say. Fundamentally, I agree with those who have said he needs to be the one to tell his wife as that is certainly the most ideal way for a BS to learn that there is someone else. I just don't believe he ever will tell her, and I base that on all you've shared since you came to LS. It's not that I'm stalking you:o, but I just happen to like you as a person regardless of your OW status and try to keep up with how you are doing.

 

Disappointed you're not stalking me

 

 

Some would say that because I'm a fBS, I would have a natural bias against you, and visa versa. I've never gotten that vibe from you

 

No no no. I'm glad you say that

 

and I hope you haven't from me either since I purposely try to focus on your questions/dilemmas in light of YOUR situation, knowing it isn't mine.

 

I see (and appreciate it) in your posts.

 

I wanted to say all of that so you know in this specific instance my opinion is with your interests in mind based on what you have shared here.

 

I don't think your MM will ever tell her, and here is my theory as to why. You mentioned that she was unfaithful to him, and still remains somewhat in contact with OM. Given your MM's passive personality, the ONE thing he has any kind of power in their relationship is the fact that he was the one who was betrayed. He may not even consciously be holding onto this Ace up his sleeve, but I can see it as a plausible scenario if his marriage is as dysfunctional as you say it is. He could be holding onto serious resentment from years of feeling inadequate, but when she cheated, he became "the better person" and maybe he is unwilling to let go of that sliver of power. If it's subconscious, this could drag on for a lifetime. It's just a theory, though, but one I thought I'd throw out for consideration.

 

I've thought about this a lot. You may be right. She 'owes' him maybe? That's a horrible thought, but given that they NEVER had a let's-thrash-this-all-out talk, either when she left or when she came back, he may well be feeling as though that's all he has, in that respect.

 

Ultimately, from what I've learned about you so far, you won't be able to walk away permanently while this stone remains unturned. You won't be able to stay and become a content OW, either. I've already turned this post into a novel, so I'll just wrap it up with a quote from Mino who expressed what I've been thinking, particularly the parts in bold.

 

 

 

SG, I really do wish the very best for you, whatever that may be (we all have our opinions on what that is, but only God knows). Ultimately, I pray for clarity and peace for you.

 

Thank you so much. I'll get there in the end, it just might not be the end I had been dreaming of!

[Silly_Girl]

SG - you've always come across as level headed and self aware. Having emotions for your mm does not change that and I am sure you are more than able to process all advice, consider it from all points and make your end choices based on what you know, what you want and your priorities.

 

 

For the first bit in bold ... yes it's true you're not far from your previous position if you look at in just in terms of "getting mm" BUT in terms of YOU then I would challenge that view. From your time on here, your self analysis, thinking it through etc you are considerably moved on from your prev position. You are now more aware of the typical scenarios for these things, aware that you are not alone in this situation and increasingly aware that the need is to focus on your needs ... not his situation.

 

Thanks SP. I really appreciate this. From a forums point of view I am a sitting duck right back where I was. But I don't feel as though I'm that same person. I am much more centred in myself, managing anxiety better. I'm more pragmatic and accepting of the potential circumstances. And I am still doing the me things (when work allows), and I am enjoying the peace I have. I remember feeling whole after we went NC, by which I mean I felt as though a bit of me was missing when we were apart. I still feel whole, but I want him, don't 'need' him. Little things like that.

 

Also, you decided to let him back in again and see how it went .. that's YOU in control .. not the other way around.

 

On being cross with yourself .. then it's worth listening to that feeling and understanding it. What is it coming from?

 

From one angle you have nothing to be cross about .. he came back and you thought about it and (with awareness from LS etc) made a decision to let him back into your life. So far the outcome of that decision has not been optimum. Recognising this doesn not require you to be cross with yourself .... you've given someone you love an extra chance ... there's nothing to be cross for.

 

I did knowingly do that, it's true. i didn't 'slip up' and make a drunken error or something. My actions were conscious but have not paid off. I love that rationale.

 

You made a choice out of love to give him a second chance. You also have a right to review that decision at any point. If he's not delivered on your expectations then don't be cross at yourself, or him, just accept that you are a loving person who chose to give you and him another chance but that the reality is that you need more from any life partner.

 

That's a great para.

 

I understand this, but what "hold" in reality does he have over you that simply SG saying "no" will not suffice. This reads like you need to burn the bridges so that he can't force you to get back with him ... which, reading a little deeper, implies that you don't trust yourself to say no and mean it.

 

So my question would be, why does SG not trust SG to say no?????

 

THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!!!! My counsellor has touched on it and I got oh-so-defensive. I kinda hoped no one would notice. Trust you SP Ha ha ha!!! Yes. Why indeed doesn't SG just grow the hell up and stop acting like a teenager. It's not that he'd force me to get back with him AT ALL. It's that all the while he's there, I'm here, we feel so natural blah blah blah, I'm going to yearn. i'm going to think of what might have been. I'm going to wonder if I can make things better, get us to a better place. I know me. That's what I'd do. And I can't be bothered changing that part of me right now, so I'm going the easy route. Let's ensure there is no future. Let's change things so we can look back on things differently and not feel like our hearts were totally and utterly shattered.

 

There's a thread about the WS looking back on the AP differently, with hindsight etc. I guess I was vaguely hoping this would do the same for me. A coping mechanism?

 

If SG says "no" because it is not right for SG ... then why are you worried that SG will then give in because he wants you back for his needs? (or also, why are you worried that you will return to him to fill some other need in you).

 

Maybe this is a SG says No with her head but not with her heart type issue ... and i understand that ... however, wouldn't it be much more liberating for SG to stand up for herself and camly (and consistently) say NO .... even if that means controlling SG's behaviour as well?

 

"SG says No with her head but not with her heart". That's it. That's totally and utterly it. I posted a thread (what seems like) yonks ago about my heart and head being on two different pages. Not much has changed in that respect.

 

Standing up for yourself and putting yourself first is a wonderful, liberating feeling.

 

I know. I've done it. It's like a drug. It's amazing...

 

Maybe she should know, maybe not. I challenge you as to what it's got to do with you though. The time for telling out of anger was when you ended it first. This time you chose to let him back in knowing his situation and so therefore I can't see what complaint you actually have.

 

On the second part, maybe he will leave it, maybe not .. then yes, maybe .... or no, maybe not .... BUT what on earth has it got to do with you.

 

You are not his counsellor, his mother, his wife or any of these things ... and you are not hers either.

 

SG is responsible for SG, mm is responsible for MM and mm's wife is responsible for mm's wife.

 

This is sorta how this thread has come about. I can only control what I do. It ends there. So even though I deliberate about the outcome, I'm fully aware that what happens after is sod all to do with me really. Kinda makes you wonder why I'm treading up and down this path then eh?!!

 

I have nothing but hugs for you SG ... you've thought it all through, been aware of the situation and even though he hurt you before you valued the chance of love with him enough to wander down that path again.

 

You're a honey. Thanks.

 

I need to set up a roadblock don't I? I wandered down that path once, a bit blind, I purposefully strode down it the next time, head high. This time I need to run a flaming mile from it.

 

I still hope it works out the way you want it, but if it doesn't then I'd never be cross with you .... how can you be cross with someone for giving what is important to them another chance?

 

Equally, how can you do anything but hug someone when taking a chance for love doesn't work out. You thought you (and he) was worth it ... and whether it works out or doesn't .. that still means you get the biggest hug in the world in my book.

 

Wet eyes!... godammit.

 

be safe and never forget how wonderful and unique we all are (including you !! )

 

Chris

 

Thanks SP. You always help me see stuff I wouldn't otherwise.

[Silly_Girl]

(((((((SG)))))))

 

I completely understand your frustration - like has been mentioned, limbo is Hell. I've said time and again that I don't know how long term OW (of whom want to be with MM full time) do it.

 

I really struggle to understand it. I don't oppose their decision, I just think it must be incredibly hard.

 

The part I have bolded above is exactly how I felt towards the end of the A - I just wanted to be free from pain one way or another (naively believing I would be). Dday happened anyway and the A did end. It was/is so incredibly tough to deal with - the loss of a loved one and, to be honest, the feeling of rejection that he wouldn't fight for me despite separating with his W. BUT, I am better off knowing this than hanging on in hope, because I too believed he would leave for me.

 

That's it. How horrible to have to embrace an outcome you do not want, purely because the other way would hurt more.

 

Can you see yourself continuing to cope with the status quo? If not, do as you feel would be best for you. There's nothing I can add to the already excellent advice here.

 

Nope. Can't continue on. I am chilled right now, quite accepting, eerily passive by my standards. But there's another aspect that is growing in me and it will eventually, in the absence of MM taking action, be the larger of the two animals inside me.

 

One thing though, I know you love him but you're such a catch that it is a shame you aren't with someone who gets to appreciate you full time. If you do this, the hurt will be immense, but you will heal. It's a long road (six months later I thought I was doing well but the tears surprised me this morning) but it gets easier and less painful with time.

 

Oh bless ya heart. Can't remember last time someone called me a 'catch'. Apart from MM and he got a barbed response

 

I will heal. I am glad things are better for you. Sorry for the unexpected tears, but the fact you didn't expect them (they are not routine/welcome) I suppose is a good thing...? Or was that far too tenuous?! All the best.

[silverplanets]

THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!!!!! My counsellor has touched on it and I got oh-so-defensive. I kinda hoped no one would notice. Trust you SP Ha ha ha!!! Yes. Why indeed doesn't SG just grow the hell up and stop acting like a teenager.

 

I'm kinda intreagued by the link between the two bold bits above ...

 

... "grow the hell up and stop acting like a teenager" .. that's an awfully harsh statement to make ... especially from someone who is so understanding of other people in their life.

 

What about just feeling compassion for SG that she has been through at least one difficult relationship in the past and has finally met someone she really loves but in the wrong situation.

 

What about compassion and feeling for SG that she is (at present) considering that she may have to walk away from the love of her life (to date) in reluctant acknowledgement that (for whatever reason) they can't be there for her in the way she needs.

 

What about compassion for SG that she has to make this choice at a time when she is not feeling strong, her confidence is low and she has to make a huge leap of faith that life might have something better in store for her.

 

What about feeling admiration, respect, compassion and deep empathy for SG that she is faced with putting down her dreams of a future with someone and walking on alone.

 

Why are we putting SG down and not loving her for loving herself enough to be even considering moving on ... ????

 

Just a wondering ...

 

be safe

Chris

[NoIDidn't]

I'm kinda intreagued by the link between the two bold bits above ...

 

... "grow the hell up and stop acting like a teenager" .. that's an awfully harsh statement to make ... especially from someone who is so understanding of other people in their life.

 

What about just feeling compassion for SG that she has been through at least one difficult relationship in the past and has finally met someone she really loves but in the wrong situation.

 

What about compassion and feeling for SG that she is (at present) considering that she may have to walk away from the love of her life (to date) in reluctant acknowledgement that (for whatever reason) they can't be there for her in the way she needs.

 

What about compassion for SG that she has to make this choice at a time when she is not feeling strong, her confidence is low and she has to make a huge leap of faith that life might have something better in store for her.

 

What about feeling admiration, respect, compassion and deep empathy for SG that she is faced with putting down her dreams of a future with someone and walking on alone.

 

Why are we putting SG down and not loving her for loving herself enough to be even considering moving on ... ????

 

Just a wondering ...

 

be safe

Chris

 

What a great post! And totally about SG and nurturing herself through all of this. Really great post.

[Hazyhead]

I always enjoy your posts, SP. You're like the wise ol' Wizard of Oz (before he turned out to be just a little dude twiddling his knobs and pulling his levers).

 

I'm kinda intreagued by the link between the two bold bits above ...

 

... "grow the hell up and stop acting like a teenager" .. that's an awfully harsh statement to make ... especially from someone who is so understanding of other people in their life.

 

What about just feeling compassion for SG that she has been through at least one difficult relationship in the past and has finally met someone she really loves but in the wrong situation.

 

What about compassion and feeling for SG that she is (at present) considering that she may have to walk away from the love of her life (to date) in reluctant acknowledgement that (for whatever reason) they can't be there for her in the way she needs.

 

What about compassion for SG that she has to make this choice at a time when she is not feeling strong, her confidence is low and she has to make a huge leap of faith that life might have something better in store for her.

 

What about feeling admiration, respect, compassion and deep empathy for SG that she is faced with putting down her dreams of a future with someone and walking on alone.

 

Why are we putting SG down and not loving her for loving herself enough to be even considering moving on ... ????

 

Just a wondering ...

 

be safe

Chris

[silverplanets]

I always enjoy your posts, SP. You're like the wise ol' Wizard of Oz (before he turned out to be just a little dude twiddling his knobs and pulling his levers).

 

Hey Hazy,

 

OK - it's official .. this made me splurt my tea laughing :)

 

Good to see you still well Hazy, I've seen your other posts and you seem to be WAY further forwards than many months ago ... I know sometimes it doesn't feel like it and sometimes the dreams/memories pop up again ... but trust me they only do this becuase you're now strong enough to cry at them without barriers.

 

I'm way proud of you :)

 

keep strong

Chris

:)

 

ok, back to playing with my knobs and levers !

[breaking_bad]

I was thinking about this the other day - why are we so afraid to let go of this "he's the perfect guy for me" when we can literally sit here for hours explaining all the reasons that they're "not at all perfect for me"?

 

Speaking for myself, my xMM was "perfect" for me in some ways, and so painfully obviously not in others. Yet I kept holding on to this thing of me and him together as this blissfully perfect match, even as I described all the behaviors and things he did that I would never have tolerated in anyone else... or things that he did that showed just how much he was not interested in moving this relationship forward like I was.

 

Anyway, it's almost as if we're describing 2 different people, and yet, we choose when we imagine our futures that we're only going to get the good one.

 

For me, I had to give myself a "he's really great" reality check. Which I think we all can do. But then I had to take it one step further.

 

And I had to ask, WHY AM I REFUSING TO ADMIT TO MYSELF THAT HE IS NOT "THE ONE"? Because that's what this back and forth is all about. What do you not want to say to yourself?

 

I think that to me, my xMM represented something to me that I thought wasn't possible, and that was finding a "soul mate". I felt something very profound with him, that I have never felt with anyone else. And if I admitted that he was not, that means I have to say I have not found my soul mate yet. I have not met the love of my life yet. Hmm, that sucks...

 

Now, there are a ton of things we love about these men, and we like to focus on those, but I think that we need to get to some point where we figure out exactly what we're afraid of.

 

In our moments of clarity, we say "enough is enough" but then we backslide and get in to the relationship, which only serves to demote us further each time, expecting less, getting less, being strung along and still holding on to this "he's the perfect guy for me."

 

Is he? And if he's not, then why can't we admit it?

[Silly_Girl]

I was thinking about this the other day - why are we so afraid to let go of this "he's the perfect guy for me" when we can literally sit here for hours explaining all the reasons that they're "not at all perfect for me"?

 

It's an issue for me that (outside of the behaviour towards his wife since meeting me) his 'flaws' actually suit me well. He has provided the perfect contrast to me in so many ways. We have a great balance. I desperately don't WANT to meet another Me. I think it would be dangerous!!

 

Speaking for myself, my xMM was "perfect" for me in some ways, and so painfully obviously not in others. Yet I kept holding on to this thing of me and him together as this blissfully perfect match, even as I described all the behaviors and things he did that I would never have tolerated in anyone else... or things that he did that showed just how much he was not interested in moving this relationship forward like I was.

 

That's hard. When one would move heaven and earth, and one cannot/will not

 

Anyway, it's almost as if we're describing 2 different people, and yet, we choose when we imagine our futures that we're only going to get the good one.

 

I don't see nothing but fluffy lambs, birds chirruping, rainbows and hearts floating in the atmosphere (not suggesting you do either bb). I see him being tired and grouchy sometimes. I see me being frustrated that he can't make a decision on something so simple as which date to travel to meet his family. I see me annoying him with my mad dancing-round whilst doing the chores with music on full blast moments (he just doesn't do loud music). I see his disappointed face when I dish up my best recipe and he can barely look at it, let alone eat it! I see us having to learn when the other needs space (probably him) or when the other person needs anything BUT space (more likely me). I see painful debates on whether to move house/town/hemisphere and what's the biggest financial priority. But I see nothing outside of normal irksome relationship stuff. I expect to be happy with him, and vice versa, but life will still chuck all the normal sh.t, I just believe we are better together than apart. There's so much we get from each other, and I want that on a permanent basis.

 

For me, I had to give myself a "he's really great" reality check. Which I think we all can do. But then I had to take it one step further.

 

And I had to ask, WHY AM I REFUSING TO ADMIT TO MYSELF THAT HE IS NOT "THE ONE"? Because that's what this back and forth is all about. What do you not want to say to yourself?

 

I think that to me, my xMM represented something to me that I thought wasn't possible, and that was finding a "soul mate". I felt something very profound with him, that I have never felt with anyone else. And if I admitted that he was not, that means I have to say I have not found my soul mate yet. I have not met the love of my life yet. Hmm, that sucks...

 

I feel strongly the other way. I'd LOVE to feel He's out there somewhere. I would find it much easier to move on if I thought MM was not The One. It is in part my fear (or certainty, currently) that I will NOT meet someone to whom I am better suited that I feel so drawn to him. I CAN think this through rationally, but it takes effort

 

Now, there are a ton of things we love about these men, and we like to focus on those, but I think that we need to get to some point where we figure out exactly what we're afraid of.

 

In our moments of clarity, we say "enough is enough" but then we backslide and get in to the relationship, which only serves to demote us further each time, expecting less, getting less, being strung along and still holding on to this "he's the perfect guy for me."

 

Is he? And if he's not, then why can't we admit it?

 

That's the path I'm moving down bb. Of stepping back, judging him on his actions and not his words or how he made me feel...

 

Don't TELL me you love me. SHOW me.

 

At the end of that train of thought I imagine my conclusion will be that all his qualities were qualities my ideal man would have, fair enough, but there are a couple missing and they will probably turn out to be so fundamental, in my world, that I simply reluctantly and sadly realise that I can't overcompensate sufficiently, and I'm probably better off cutting my losses. It's getting to the point that I don't want to see or speak to him because it will just hurt too much if we're not moving forward together.

 

And actually, if he's 'there' and ready to do this, it'd better be good. I just spent 4 days and nights in hospital with my son; I was very worried, and had a LOT of thinking time. I had a great counselling session before this, where I had noticed a lot had changed for me. Not re MM, but how I deal with things, how I react, what my priorities are, etc. So the last few days just built on that. Thinking about what really matters in life, what we can change and what we can't. I'm not frightened of letting MM go now, and that's a really nice, peaceful feeling

[White Flower]

That's the path I'm moving down bb. Of stepping back, judging him on his actions and not his words or how he made me feel...

 

Don't TELL me you love me. SHOW me.

 

At the end of that train of thought I imagine my conclusion will be that all his qualities were qualities my ideal man would have, fair enough, but there are a couple missing and they will probably turn out to be so fundamental, in my world, that I simply reluctantly and sadly realise that I can't overcompensate sufficiently, and I'm probably better off cutting my losses. It's getting to the point that I don't want to see or speak to him because it will just hurt too much if we're not moving forward together.

 

And actually, if he's 'there' and ready to do this, it'd better be good. I just spent 4 days and nights in hospital with my son; I was very worried, and had a LOT of thinking time. I had a great counselling session before this, where I had noticed a lot had changed for me. Not re MM, but how I deal with things, how I react, what my priorities are, etc. So the last few days just built on that. Thinking about what really matters in life, what we can change and what we can't. I'm not frightened of letting MM go now, and that's a really nice, peaceful feeling

Hoping your son is doing all right SG. Sounds like you're in a good place as well.

 

((((SG+son))))

[silverplanets]

That's the path I'm moving down bb. Of stepping back, judging him on his actions and not his words or how he made me feel...

 

Don't TELL me you love me. SHOW me.

 

At the end of that train of thought I imagine my conclusion will be that all his qualities were qualities my ideal man would have, fair enough, but there are a couple missing and they will probably turn out to be so fundamental, in my world, that I simply reluctantly and sadly realise that I can't overcompensate sufficiently, and I'm probably better off cutting my losses. It's getting to the point that I don't want to see or speak to him because it will just hurt too much if we're not moving forward together.

 

And actually, if he's 'there' and ready to do this, it'd better be good. I just spent 4 days and nights in hospital with my son; I was very worried, and had a LOT of thinking time. I had a great counselling session before this, where I had noticed a lot had changed for me. Not re MM, but how I deal with things, how I react, what my priorities are, etc. So the last few days just built on that. Thinking about what really matters in life, what we can change and what we can't. I'm not frightened of letting MM go now, and that's a really nice, peaceful feeling

 

Hi SG,

 

Hope your son is feeling better as well. One of the many (gradual) eye openers for me was that ixMW could never be there for me in person or any form when my daughter was ill. I had to do it all alone - which I didn't mind BUT then afterwards (or during) she (mw) would still bring up her yadda yadda and, to be honest, it just rated zero importance next to my daughter's health etc.

 

It also started me realising how trivial (and FIXABLE) where the issues she brought up ... H this, unhappy with marriage that, can't work out what do to about leaving etc, etc ..... and I slowly realised she could fix all of it if she just took responsibility and did something.

 

It also helped me see that there was no way she could be there for me and my daughter if she couldnt' even be there for herself in her own life.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't need a carer for me or my daughter .. but I do need someone who can stand on their own two feet as an adult ... I already have one child to look after and support developing into a (hopefully) well adjusted adult .. what I want from partner is grown up behaviour.

 

 

On the last bolded point I agree .. it's a wonderful feeling to realise you're truly at peace with letting go ... even acknowledging that you don't want to.

 

I think it's called acceptance .. acceptance of the situation, acceptance that you can't change them, acceptance that only they can and they choose not to, acceptance that what they offer is just not healthy for you.

 

I found acceptance of this changed my view of moving forwards alone ... no longer was it a scary thing but it was in fact an exciting and wonderful thing.

 

It;s like one is at a cross roads and one path (being with them) is all sunny and good and the other (loosing them) is all dark and desperate ... and then suddenly one takes a good look at the other path and realises it's not as bad as one first thought ... ok it doesn't have the MP on it but there's lots of other things on it and, the more you look, the more you can see that that path is as fun packed , exciting and inviting as the other path.

 

So, rather than being worried about walking down it you start to get excited about it ...

 

And that, for me, was when I realised I didnt' want to be sat at the cross roads any more ... that i wanted to walk into my future (not stay in stasis) and that if the "relationship with MW" path was closed to me then I would take the other path ... and throw myself into it with all my heart x

 

Which is what I've done... and I love it .. :)

 

be safe

Chris

[Silly_Girl]

SP, I really wanted to post "You have no idea how much your posts have helped me, thank you so, so much"; but I suspect you actually do know full well how much comfort you've given me and how you have helped me unclutter my somewhat jumbled head contents.

 

I'm very grateful. Thank you for your time, it means a lot to me.

 

Regarding the situation with MM, in my previous relationship (not my marriage, but the nasty one) there were times when he would deem that I didn't deserve affection, or respect, or even to be spoken to. I would go to bed and he (a tall, big guy) would be sleeping on the furthest 6 inches of bed, to be as far away from me as possible, and to make it clear I was rejected.

 

I used to feel so lonely. I would look across and think about how much more I would prefer to be in an empty bed, than have someone there who 'loves' me, but cannot bring themselves to touch me or show me tenderness or even acknowledge I exist. Better to be ALONE, with no expectations and no disappointments, no rejection or false hope, than to be with someone who cannot treat me how I need/deserve.

 

And that's what I have been thinking about. Over and over and over. Like a stuck record, but I suspect it's no bad thing.

 

I love MM so very much, I like him a great deal, I respect him in all ways but one. I like his sensitivity, his depth of thinking, his view on the world, his fun side and his sense of humour. I miss him and I understand his difficulties regarding his marriage and I sympathise, and have done for a long time now; and I've been supportive and kind and patient. But I have started to feel lonely, and that is wrong. I prefer 'alone', and I can do 'alone'. I can't do lonely. Actually, it's not that I can't do lonely, but why would I choose to?!

 

I haven't closed the door entirely, on MM, but at the moment there is no urgency, no worry, no anxiety on my part. Just an acceptance that his 'best' most likely isn't good enough for me (even with my rubberised boundaries ), and moreover, I deserve better than I am getting these days.

 

In my world, spending Christmas Day with the one I love isn't a luxury or a pipe dream, it's what HAPPENS. That's just a random example, Christmas. But you see where I'm coming from.