Forcing Dday. Things to consider?

[Silly_Girl]

 

 

Well said, NID.

 

Sillygirl, this is what I was hinting at in my post to you earlier.

 

I've spent a lot of time with a conflict avoider myself----it can be a really difficult thing to deal with.

 

You might be cruising along, thinking everything's fine, cuz he never complains or argues......................

 

...and then WHAM!!! He drops a bomb on you about how he's been miserable , or angry about something that happened six months ago. And you're blindsided, and stunned.

 

These are the types who move out without warning---you come home, and their stuff is all gone---except for maybe a note.

 

I realize that is the more drastic scenario, but in general, avoidant people can be hell to be in a relationship with.

 

We honestly have talked about how different he is with me. From being decisive, to questioning my logic, to asserting his wants/needs. It is so different. We would have zero chemistry if those things weren't happening.

[jwi71]

SG,

 

I know how hard it must be...to have, at times, that delicious brain thinking its way through all the contradictions...how clear it must seem. And that hurts.

 

And I can imagine how your heart interferes. Feeling its way through this, addicted to the love you give him.

 

That tug of war between heart and mind. The crazy sleepless nights. This slow insidious insanity of indecision - to stay or go.

 

I think you need to read and reread what torrance and NiD have said above. Print it out and tape it to your bathroom mirror.

 

Please, look at what he DOES. And doesn't do.

 

You went NC and he went on vacation with his wife.

HE tells you if you leave he will cheat again.

 

Those aren't words of a man who loves you.

Those are the words of a man using you to hurt his W.

[NoIDidn't]

We honestly have talked about how different he is with me. From being decisive, to questioning my logic, to asserting his wants/needs. It is so different. We would have zero chemistry if those things weren't happening.

 

I'm not saying that his new traits won't stick, per se. But please remember you are in a triangulated R with him. He is being a different self with you right now, because he can play his other role with her. The real test comes when the triangle is dissolved.

 

I think you telling her for him will only cement that avoidant behavior on his part and undo some of what you intended in being hidden from her to begin with.

[2sure]

It does sound as though his wife may have an inkling about an OW. It also sounds as though she may be one of those people that prefers to think what she wants regardless of what is really happening. Talk about conflict avoidance.

 

But anyway, since you feel so strongly that it is his conflict avoidance that keeps him from being able to make the change....when his wife finds out for sure...she will give him conflict, rest assured. I know that is what you expect and that you know that it has to happen so there is resolution....

 

But it just doesnt sound as though she is going to throw him out. It doesnt sounds as though he will, overnight, change his nature. He will go on as he has...making his wife make decisions for him.

 

You should tell her of course - because you need resolution one way or the other - and I think you can handle it either way.

But in this case, by telling the wife...you are not making him come to a decision or action...you are, like him, making her do it for him. And you.

 

Is she who you want to count on? Your future is more important than to be decided by a BS.

[Silly_Girl]

Just for the record, the 'he will cheat again' thing came out of a conversation we had about whether he could EVER imagine the two of them being happy together, he said no but that if I left he'd have to stop lying, remain faithful, never touch or kiss another. I asked him to think long and hard as to whether he could REALLY do that. Hopefully he has a good 40+ years left him and said no he could not imagine he could live year in year our without sexual contact. Not now. He did. But can't commit to that now.

[NoIDidn't]

It does sound as though his wife may have an inkling about an OW. It also sounds as though she may be one of those people that prefers to think what she wants regardless of what is really happening. Talk about conflict avoidance.

 

But anyway, since you feel so strongly that it is his conflict avoidance that keeps him from being able to make the change....when his wife finds out for sure...she will give him conflict, rest assured. I know that is what you expect and that you know that it has to happen so there is resolution....

 

But it just doesnt sound as though she is going to throw him out. It doesnt sounds as though he will, overnight, change his nature. He will go on as he has...making his wife make decisions for him.

 

You should tell her of course - because you need resolution one way or the other - and I think you can handle it either way.

But in this case, by telling the wife...you are not making him come to a decision or action...you are, like him, making her do it for him. And you.

 

Is she who you want to count on? Your future is more important than to be decided by a BS.

 

We don't agree on the email, but this is a great post.

 

It does seem that telling her will give her the job that he should still be doing for himself. But that is usually what happens when one tells the spouse. It "forces" an outcome because the MP wouldn't do it timely enough. Or in the way that the OP would have liked for it to be done. Which, in the end is pretty much accepting what I have been questioning: that who wants someone they will end up making decisions for often anyway? It seems that while in the A, its not thought of in that way. But to one on the outside looking in, it can sometimes appear to be that way.

 

I'm not clear on one thing, SG. You thought about sending the email in response to the limited contact by him while he's on vacation with her? Or just in general? I apologize if you explained this earlier and I missed it.

[NoIDidn't]

Just for the record, the 'he will cheat again' thing came out of a conversation we had about whether he could EVER imagine the two of them being happy together, he said no but that if I left he'd have to stop lying, remain faithful, never touch or kiss another. I asked him to think long and hard as to whether he could REALLY do that. Hopefully he has a good 40+ years left him and said no he could not imagine he could live year in year our without sexual contact. Not now. He did. But can't commit to that now.

 

Thanks for the clarification. It does make sense if he's so young. But why cheat when he can divorce? I think that's where the point hangs for some of us.

[Spark1111]

Look, it is your life, your future, with or without him.

 

Make a plan for someone, you, him, both? to tell her and STICK TO THAT DAY AND TIME and JUST DO IT!

 

It's like waiting for the perfect time to have the baby. Guess what? There isn't a perfect time for anything. You can wait your whole life away with that sort of thinking, or wait for the decision to be taken out of your hands by some other divine intervention of fate.

 

And then, like it or not, it is at least happening. Something is happening, good bad or indifferent, here it is...

 

Will it be easy for him, her or you?

 

Of course not. It never is.

 

But it will be DONE.

[pureinheart]

SG I went through something not dissimilar with my H. He made several attempts to have "the talk" with his xW, with similar results to those you outline. Because, like your MM's M, their R had been entirely focused on her happiness, her wants and needs, he similarly felt guilty about "abandoning" her (especially as, during a previous separation, she'd fallen apart completely, become suicidal, and it had all placed huge strain on the kids who'd suffered terribly) but unable to speak up and assert his own right to his own desires, wants and needs - which had been so suppressed throughout their R that he had not even recognised that he had any, before the A alerted him to those.

 

The difference is - my H was in IC. This allowed him, over time, to reclaim his agency, and to force "the talk" - even though it dídn't go according to plan (she didn't believe him). Still, taking the agency and mustering the courage to face her, to face his own emasculation and finally to leave, has allowed him to continue that trajectory in our R, so there's been little chance of our M sliding down into the same deadly dynamic of theirs.

 

By outing the A to his W, you run the risk of taking that momentum from him, of depriving him of his agency and putting yourself into a position of power over him - which could wreck the dynamic of your R. That is a risk. Alternately, freeing him from the crippling constraints of his M could allow him to embrace the opportunity to face his own demons, to regain his sense of agency and to work hard (through IC or other appropriate means) to become "whole" again. And you won't know which way it could go until it happens.

 

I had time - I had my own contextual issues to resolve - so I did not have the same sense of urgency you seem to have, and I could wait until IC delivered him into the place where he could stand up and do what he needed to, by himself. You're not there, and your MM is not in the same place (via IC) that my H was at that time. So you'll need to review all the evidence you have, and make your best educated guess as to the probable outcome of telling her - and then act on that.

 

Good luck - whichever decision you make

 

Wow, (bold) that is powerful....this is how I felt with exDM...to let him do it his way, otherwise felt the end result would not be what was meant to...

[pureinheart]

Thanks PIH. Glad you understand. I've always felt so sad for them both. Some of the things he's said about their set-up, quite casually, have stunned me and he's clearly (as we can often do) normalised such a lot that he now has convinced himself he would be an ogre to leave. The opposite of how I see it... I have tried many times to 'sell' MC to him, to no avail.

 

I see that him leaving her leaves two people fantastically happy. One not. But if he could stay and they manage to find fulfilment and I'm the 'not happy' god, of course I'd want that. I have absolutely no expectation they could do that, feels like too much water under the bridge, there are many layers of history and issues unspoken. He has lived such a sheltered life, escaped to the golf course whenever possible and stayed in the office long after everyone else when there's really no need. I couldn't live like that. But I'd be rooting for them if that's what he chose. He cried with me at the weekend, when I told him I couldn't go on. I see he doesn't want to lose me but I can't magic him here, he needs to do what needs to be done. It's a horrible situation because there is no happy ending. I carried (pointless) guilt for 9 years for leaving my husband and I know MM is worried about being in the same boat.

 

If this current silence is self-imposed I know he will be miserable, thinking of me constantly, worrying, stressing. That's not at all the holiday I wished for him. Silly man. He KNOWS the stress dissolves when he's done what needs doing, but gets himself in to such a stew beforehand, he practically paralyses himself! It amazes me how well he has done in his career, particularly as he suffers a medical condition which gives him a distinct disadvantage. Again, it appears it really comes down to him being like this with his wife but nowhere else.

 

I am so glad you are giving this ample thought (to tell or not to), this way you will be comfortable with your decision no matter the outcome.

 

Your MM sounds a lot like exDM, he used to trip hard and heavy about everything. With us working together I could see to his emotional state at work, although he would be back to his same jacked up state the next day.

 

I too, when we first started talking, tried to get him to take her out to dinner and get her flowers...you would have thought I was putting a gun to his head and asking him to pull the trigger. This was a genuine response, it was not an act for my benefit. They were miserable together...now they are friends.

 

He was so afraid of what his kids and others would think, as she had painted him the bad guy for so many years, his mother did this also I might add. I really think he did everything that would piss his exW off to leave. He had left her before and couldn't handle it because he is very attached to his house.

 

It's an avoidance issue with your MM, he knows it will be long and drawn out and possibly isn't mentally ready...I have to say, is there ever a good time though?

 

I saw what you see right now SG, and there is only one possible senerio...it the inevitable.

[awkward]

One thing forcing a D-Day will do is bring awareness to the affair. I am not sure it will force a resolution because he may still choose to remain married and continue his relationship with you.

 

If after D-day he is no longer scared and can provide you with what you need then forcing a D-day will have worked out for you. However, you should also be prepared for it not working out the way you want it to. Have clear boundaries and limits on what you will accept and try not to deviate far from that or you could be doing this for awhile.

 

Personally, I don't think you should force a D-day on your MM because of some of the details you've provided.

[breaking_bad]

SillyGirl, I always related to your posts and I feel like I understand where you come from, although it is impossible for anyone to truly know any situation outside their own. But I will give you my 2 cents for what it's worth. J

 

I have a teenage son. When he reaches adulthood, he will be making choices in his life that I (gulp) no longer will be a driving force behind. I will be able to give him my thoughts, advice, etc. but he will make his choices himself. If he wants to get a tattoo, go skydiving, marry a girl @ 19 and have babies - he will be able to do any of those things, and thinking that I will be able to intervene in his adult life choices is just not realistic.

 

Similarly, as adults, we all have our choices to make, and we make them the best we can, but we do that from inside ourselves. There is precious little that we can do to rescue people from their situations - life doesn't work that way, however much we wish it did.

 

You are in a situation where it almost seems like you have to shift your focus back to yourself. This is not about him, about setting things right for him, about fixing something for him that he can’t fix himself, or basically reversing his co-dependency issues (which is what it sounds like he has).

 

He is an adult, he has choices to make, and you can discuss your opinions with him but I would be wary of trying to be the one who is forced to “set things right” because he is not strong enough to do it himself.

 

I also think that your energy is better spent on yourself - taking a look @ what you really want from this relationship and determining if, @ face value, that’s what you’re actually getting. If your desire is to have a truly deep, meaningful, open, trusting physical and emotional connection with a person that you love, are you in a relationship that is giving you this?

 

I know you want an “event” and I think I understand why. I think you are just @ that fork. For me, my “event” was him going on a vacation w/ his wife and family (he said – but honey, it’s “cosmetics”), but that was just the point I got to that I could no longer reconcile words and behavior. And it went down from there. Because I finally realized that in my relationship, I was the co-dependent….

 

I spent a long time hoping for things to work out with the MM. I have never felt more for a person in my entire life. I sometimes think (but hope not) that I will never be able to feel this way again about another human being. I wanted so much for this to work. But unfortunately, for however much I adored and loved him, wanted to be with him, wanted to hold out for a future with him, could not imagine a person that better fit with me, he could not and will not leave his M, or make a commitment to ultimately do so.

 

And I could not force him to do something that was not in him to do. And if I would have had to force him to create positive change in his own life, or force him to stand up for himself, or force him to see my priority as his – well, that would not be the guy I thought I was with.

 

And there was nothing I could have done differently. And nothing I would do to push or pull or try to tweak this destiny out of the cosmos for us, would have worked. This is his life. He will live it how he wants to live it. Miserably, happily, fulfilled or not. Independent, co-dependent, whatever.

 

Good luck SG.

 

 

BB

[BB07]

SG.......these are my thoughts about your situation.

 

I think that you are very unhappy with the present situation and you want an ending one way or the other, (can't say I blame you.) I think that you have put and are continuing to put a lot of thought into what you are considering. I tend to go with the thought that forcing it is secretly what he might want as he seems to be unable to make it happen himself. I think this speaks to big time conflict avoidance. You say that he doesn't avoid conflicts with you, but something for you to consider is that you definitely know that conflict avoidance is a part of him and it's pretty safe to assume that it will come out with you sooner or later. I also tend to think that people who are conflict avoiders are more prone to be passive aggressive which is a nasty trait.

 

I think from what you have told us about your MM, that he has many issues, maybe some of them are the result of his marriage that is dysfunctional and maybe some of them were already there and multiplied by the marriage. It also concerns me that maybe there is some part of you that has a need to rescue him.

 

SG.....I know it sounds like I'm being very critical of your MM but consider that I/we don't know that much about his good points, since there isn't any need to talk about them here. You obviously feel that he is worth your time and effort.

 

So in conclusion I will say that if you are prepared for which ever way it goes, then DO it.

 

Hugs.....

[Silly_Girl]

SG,

 

I know how hard it must be...to have, at times, that delicious brain thinking its way through all the contradictions...how clear it must seem. And that hurts.

 

And I can imagine how your heart interferes. Feeling its way through this, addicted to the love you give him.

 

That tug of war between heart and mind. The crazy sleepless nights. This slow insidious insanity of indecision - to stay or go.

 

I think you need to read and reread what torrance and NiD have said above. Print it out and tape it to your bathroom mirror.

 

Please, look at what he DOES. And doesn't do.

 

I look at how he needs twice as much sleep as me but sits up all night to talk on the phone for 3 or 4 or 6 or 7 hours; how he misses much-needed practice for a tournament to talk to me or visit me; how he calls to find out the results of my son's French test; how he remembers the bad news I had to impart at board and asks how my MD took it; how much he makes me laugh; how he texts to tell me he's thinking of me when he's rushed off his feet; how he listens and comforts and has exactly the right words when I cry at the loss of my grandparents, or father; how he is cheeky and mocks me so accurately and lovingly; how he shares his work stories and asks for advice and gives advice when I ask and factors in ME in to the advice he gives me, because he knows and understands me; how he seems to have exactly the right response to anything and everything; how he gets excited by our plans and gets such pleasure out of the very most simple things provided we are together; how he takes time to try things I like, and introduce me to what he's keen on.... There's just too much to list.

 

What he doesn't do is tell his wife he does not want to be with her any more.

 

You went NC and he went on vacation with his wife.

 

Yep. Of course he did. Path of least resistance. That's how it is at that end. She picks the destinations, he goes along with it. Why argue with her and not go when I had told him I had left. What a lot of hassle for nothing.

 

HE tells you if you leave he will cheat again.

 

Those aren't words of a man who loves you.

Those are the words of a man using you to hurt his W.

 

I don't feel he's using me to hurt his wife at all. Never seen it that way and not sure how to. After reading this, I tried but couldn't see it.

[Silly_Girl]

It does sound as though his wife may have an inkling about an OW. It also sounds as though she may be one of those people that prefers to think what she wants regardless of what is really happening. Talk about conflict avoidance.

 

But anyway, since you feel so strongly that it is his conflict avoidance that keeps him from being able to make the change....when his wife finds out for sure...she will give him conflict, rest assured. I know that is what you expect and that you know that it has to happen so there is resolution....

 

But it just doesnt sound as though she is going to throw him out. It doesnt sounds as though he will, overnight, change his nature. He will go on as he has...making his wife make decisions for him.

 

I've wondered that. And have said that to him. I think it's my worst fear actually. That she will attempt to continue to parent him. It's a conversation we started at the weekend and didn't finish.

 

You should tell her of course - because you need resolution one way or the other - and I think you can handle it either way.

But in this case, by telling the wife...you are not making him come to a decision or action...you are, like him, making her do it for him. And you.

 

Yes. This is something I want to talk to him about too. I've had some thoughts along these lines.

 

Is she who you want to count on? Your future is more important than to be decided by a BS.

 

You're right. Of course. More to think about.

[Silly_Girl]

 

I'm not clear on one thing, SG. You thought about sending the email in response to the limited contact by him while he's on vacation with her? Or just in general? I apologize if you explained this earlier and I missed it.

 

It's something I had noticed crossing my mind fleetingly.

 

I have offered many times to disappear and never come back. Times he has been due to visit I've suggested he doesn't get on the train, turns his phone off and stays put. Symbolically choosing her. Never. He NEVER wants that to happen. He tells me over and over he belongs with me, that it IS what is going to happen. That we WILL be together. That he knows deep down in his heart they are wrong and we are right. So the inevitable question "why then? Why do you go back?" and it always comes down to the things I have mentioned. About her being an old friend, him feeling cruel, she has never been happier, it will devastate her. He wishes she'd meet someone else. He wishes she was as unhappy as she was so he could leave and be guilt-free. etc etc.

 

So it has led me to say that sometimes I think if he is 100% certain (and he says he is) then I may as well tell her. He has said that it SHOULD come from him.

 

Then he told me he wanted to tell her whilst they were away. She cannot claim to be too busy, too tired, out, etc etc. That was his choice.

 

So my thinking is that it won't have happened. So what am I signing up for? Another month, two, three? A year? Five? This was his chosen time and he won't have done it. So it made me think a little more seriously about doing it. Although I'm less keen now than I was when today began...

 

Hope that answers your question. It's not a punishment for something, it's a realisation that perhaps things won't be as we planned when he returns and the impact of that.

[Silly_Girl]

Look, it is your life, your future, with or without him.

 

Make a plan for someone, you, him, both? to tell her and STICK TO THAT DAY AND TIME and JUST DO IT!

 

It's like waiting for the perfect time to have the baby. Guess what? There isn't a perfect time for anything. You can wait your whole life away with that sort of thinking, or wait for the decision to be taken out of your hands by some other divine intervention of fate.

 

And then, like it or not, it is at least happening. Something is happening, good bad or indifferent, here it is...

 

Will it be easy for him, her or you?

 

Of course not. It never is.

 

But it will be DONE.

 

That's sort of what I'm thinking. Done is done. At the moment, I'm okay, but I am fed up with not knowing what tomorrow may bring. I had virtually no stability in my last relationship, would wake up in the morning and not know how turbulent the day would be. I think it's where some of my impatience comes from. I've never had 'boring', and I crave it. I just want to know. If we decided 6 months, and I KNEW it was 6 months, no problem. I can do that. Cool. But it's not knowing, waiting indefinitely. I don't like it.

[Silly_Girl]

One thing forcing a D-Day will do is bring awareness to the affair. I am not sure it will force a resolution because he may still choose to remain married and continue his relationship with you.

 

He knows that's not an option open to him, for so many reasons.

 

If after D-day he is no longer scared and can provide you with what you need then forcing a D-day will have worked out for you. However, you should also be prepared for it not working out the way you want it to. Have clear boundaries and limits on what you will accept and try not to deviate far from that or you could be doing this for awhile.

 

You're right. I do need to do that. I THINK I've done that, but looking back.... I'm really not convinced I have.

 

Personally, I don't think you should force a D-day on your MM because of some of the details you've provided.

 

Awkward, would you please mind elaborating on your last point? I'd be interested, thanks.

[whichwayisup]

I do not wish to be an OW past the end of this month.

 

Then end it completely and get some therapy to help you cope. If he finally divorces one day and you feel you still want him, THEN go from there.. Until that day comes ,don't waste your life on someone who can't sh.it or get off the pot.. Don't settle to be his OW forever because then YOU lose out on what you truly want. A husband, kids, building a life with someone.

 

If you tell his wife about the affair, chances are, he is going to hate you for doing so. Fact that he HAD an opportunity to end his marriage, tell her the truth, and didn't, infact he even DENIED you to her, just shows how the guy has no backbone and is going to stay married because he probably is afraid to start over and lose the life he has now - Including losing friendships, inlaws, extended family etc.

 

Have you told him that you want to tell her the truth? If no, then tell HIM that you want to tell her and watch his reaction.

[Silly_Girl]

SillyGirl, I always related to your posts and I feel like I understand where you come from, although it is impossible for anyone to truly know any situation outside their own. But I will give you my 2 cents for what it's worth. J

 

I have a teenage son. When he reaches adulthood, he will be making choices in his life that I (gulp) no longer will be a driving force behind. I will be able to give him my thoughts, advice, etc. but he will make his choices himself. If he wants to get a tattoo, go skydiving, marry a girl @ 19 and have babies - he will be able to do any of those things, and thinking that I will be able to intervene in his adult life choices is just not realistic.

 

Similarly, as adults, we all have our choices to make, and we make them the best we can, but we do that from inside ourselves. There is precious little that we can do to rescue people from their situations - life doesn't work that way, however much we wish it did.

 

You are in a situation where it almost seems like you have to shift your focus back to yourself. This is not about him, about setting things right for him, about fixing something for him that he can’t fix himself, or basically reversing his co-dependency issues (which is what it sounds like he has).

 

He is an adult, he has choices to make, and you can discuss your opinions with him but I would be wary of trying to be the one who is forced to “set things right” because he is not strong enough to do it himself.

 

I also think that your energy is better spent on yourself - taking a look @ what you really want from this relationship and determining if, @ face value, that’s what you’re actually getting. If your desire is to have a truly deep, meaningful, open, trusting physical and emotional connection with a person that you love, are you in a relationship that is giving you this?

 

I'm struggling with this. I believe it's true. I believe he and I have my version of perfect, when it's just us. But the fact others can possibly see what I can't... that worries me. Not that MM and I aren't as I see it, but that there's things I'm choosing not to see. I'm not so silly (!) as to think it's not possible to do this. And I care so much, so so much, for him, about our potential future, about not f***ing everything up for everyone, it's worth me thinking about these things.

 

I know you want an “event” and I think I understand why. I think you are just @ that fork. For me, my “event” was him going on a vacation w/ his wife and family (he said – but honey, it’s “cosmetics”), but that was just the point I got to that I could no longer reconcile words and behavior. And it went down from there. Because I finally realized that in my relationship, I was the co-dependent….

 

Firstly, his vacation with her isn't my event. Nor is the wedding they are away for in a few days time. Perhaps they should be. I still have faith in him, in the things he has tried to do. The things he has done. The room he rented but didn't move in to after he felt he had no reason because I had gone.

 

The co-dependent. Hhmmmm.

 

I spent a long time hoping for things to work out with the MM. I have never felt more for a person in my entire life. I sometimes think (but hope not) that I will never be able to feel this way again about another human being.

 

I share your fear.

 

I wanted so much for this to work. But unfortunately, for however much I adored and loved him, wanted to be with him, wanted to hold out for a future with him, could not imagine a person that better fit with me, he could not and will not leave his M, or make a commitment to ultimately do so.

 

Did he say he wanted to? That he was determined to? MM says he has started down a path of no return, that he is heading towards us, but that he is sorry he is not doing so quickly enough for me. He is disgusted in himself, but at the same time proud of what he HAS done, which is a complete departure for him, and it spurs him to complete the journey.

 

And I could not force him to do something that was not in him to do. And if I would have had to force him to create positive change in his own life, or force him to stand up for himself, or force him to see my priority as his – well, that would not be the guy I thought I was with.

 

And there was nothing I could have done differently. And nothing I would do to push or pull or try to tweak this destiny out of the cosmos for us, would have worked. This is his life. He will live it how he wants to live it. Miserably, happily, fulfilled or not. Independent, co-dependent, whatever.

 

Good luck SG.

 

 

BB

 

Thanks BB, I appreciate you taking time. It's lovely post. How do you feel things turned out for him, out of interest?

[whichwayisup]

So it has led me to say that sometimes I think if he is 100% certain (and he says he is) then I may as well tell her. He has said that it SHOULD come from him.

 

BUT HE ISN'T CERTAIN. If he was, he would be telling her, no matter how much it hurt. What he is doing now, cheating on her is worse. He is telling you one thing, making plans, giving you hope all the meanwhile living life with her, like everything is fine. The thing is, what if he JUST wants an affair. You to stay the OW and for him to stay married.

 

You decide, but I think if you push him into the corner and tell his wife, forcing him to choose, he will turn against you, throw you under the bus. It's happened to TONS of OW and afew OM.

[Silly_Girl]

SG.......these are my thoughts about your situation.

 

I think that you are very unhappy with the present situation and you want an ending one way or the other, (can't say I blame you.) I think that you have put and are continuing to put a lot of thought into what you are considering. I tend to go with the thought that forcing it is secretly what he might want...

 

not a nice thought, is it?!

 

...as he seems to be unable to make it happen himself. I think this speaks to big time conflict avoidance. You say that he doesn't avoid conflicts with you, but something for you to consider is that you definitely know that conflict avoidance is a part of him and it's pretty safe to assume that it will come out with you sooner or later.

 

Is it? Is it that simple? I was jealous as hell in my last relationship. Have none now. I was short-tempered and suspicious, now I am not. I am an entirely different partner/girlfriend now, than I was. This is possibly why my mind is so very open that this MM I see is the new/real MM. Because of how I have changed....

 

I also tend to think that people who are conflict avoiders are more prone to be passive aggressive which is a nasty trait.

 

I think from what you have told us about your MM, that he has many issues, maybe some of them are the result of his marriage that is dysfunctional and maybe some of them were already there and multiplied by the marriage. It also concerns me that maybe there is some part of you that has a need to rescue him.

 

Oh BB, that's a fair point. One I like to ignore. It's so hard when one cares so very bloody much

 

SG.....I know it sounds like I'm being very critical of your MM but consider that I/we don't know that much about his good points, since there isn't any need to talk about them here. You obviously feel that he is worth your time and effort.

 

I really, really do.

 

So in conclusion I will say that if you are prepared for which ever way it goes, then DO it.

 

Hugs.....

 

Thank you BB. Hugs always appreciated!!

[pureinheart]

One thing forcing a D-Day will do is bring awareness to the affair. I am not sure it will force a resolution because he may still choose to remain married and continue his relationship with you.

 

If after D-day he is no longer scared and can provide you with what you need then forcing a D-day will have worked out for you. However, you should also be prepared for it not working out the way you want it to. Have clear boundaries and limits on what you will accept and try not to deviate far from that or you could be doing this for awhile.

 

Personally, I don't think you should force a D-day on your MM because of some of the details you've provided.

 

Wow, this is a hard one isn't it Awkward...given most of the details I am divided and normally say never expose the R as it is the MM who needs to do that...with this sitch SG's heart is in the right place...it's almost like saving a drowning person...

 

There are times in all of our lives when we need intervention...I was there, in a pit and I either needed a Divine Hand, or a human being used for the purpose of a Divine Hand. I was unable to do it myself.

 

ExDM has pulled me out of many pits, so that is mostlikely why I went through what I did with him, returning the loyalty.

[Silly_Girl]

BUT HE ISN'T CERTAIN. If he was, he would be telling her, no matter how much it hurt.

 

Would he? Or is that how YOU would react? Took me a year to tell my husband I couldn't stay with him any more. And I am NOT a conflict avoider.

 

What he is doing now, cheating on her is worse.

 

Goodness, yes. It is.

 

He is telling you one thing, making plans, giving you hope all the meanwhile living life with her, like everything is fine.

 

He told her he was moving out. He sorted a room. He promised to tell her. He didn't/couldn't. These latest attempts to talk are building on the previous ones. It feels as though the tide is building, just so slowly, so very slowly.

 

The thing is, what if he JUST wants an affair. You to stay the OW and for him to stay married.

 

I have put that to him in so many many different ways. He's done a good job of convincing me that's not the case.

 

You decide, but I think if you push him into the corner and tell his wife, forcing him to choose, he will turn against you, throw you under the bus. It's happened to TONS of OW and afew OM.

 

Yes, I wonder if it doesn't really matter how much I mean, or how serious he is about his plans to change his job and move to me. If the 'showdown' happens I wonder if his very nature will cause him to freeze more and longer than ever. So maybe it's a self-preservation thing. Burn my bridges and draw a line under it. No more 'what-ifs'.

[breaking_bad]

Thanks BB, I appreciate you taking time. It's lovely post. How do you feel things turned out for him, out of interest?

 

I believe that he wanted to leave his M, and I don't need to guess that he still does. I do truly believe his feelings for me were real, I know how we felt and still feel about each other emotionally. In the beginning he said he was leaving, that his M was over, that we would be together, and I believe he believed this to the core. But he's not the world's best planner and he has beautiful ideas that sometimes are not executable in reality Logistics get in the way, as do his obligations. Kids, work visas, etc., and all that stuff make quick decisions difficult, and any decision painful.

 

I know we both love each other. Who knows if someday, somewhere we will be together. But I know that this can never be while he is still in the situation he is in, and I just couldn't take the asymmetry of it any more. It was hurting me so much, it was just so unbalanced, it was too much to take, even for love.

 

And from his perspective, I understand that rationalities can and do trump deep emotional feelings, and that's the sad reality of life. I don't doubt his feelings, I don't doubt what he deeply wants and that he wants more than most things to be with me. I just think that even though I would tend to make decisions based on my feelings, he doesn't and he won't, and that I have to leave up to him.

 

So I feel that he is in a relationship that is probably inadequate, and unfulfilling. I doubt it's a living hell - I'm sure it's tolerable roomate style that I am pretty personally familiar with as are alot of ppl I know. I think he wishes in his heart this could be different. I think that logistically, it is impossible now for him to do anything about it and will just find his joy out of his job and his kids and leave it at that. I'm not sure if he does or will ever have a long term plan. It's not his thing - it's just the way he is. I'm the planner in the relationship

 

Anyway, I find it interesting that the very ways we complement each other when we're together are what actually tears us apart when we're not. Weird....