Forcing Dday. Things to consider?

[Silly_Girl]

I believe that he wanted to leave his M, and I don't need to guess that he still does. I do truly believe his feelings for me were real, I know how we felt and still feel about each other emotionally. In the beginning he said he was leaving, that his M was over, that we would be together, and I believe he believed this to the core. But he's not the world's best planner and he has beautiful ideas that sometimes are not executable in reality Logistics get in the way, as do his obligations. Kids, work visas, etc., and all that stuff make quick decisions difficult, and any decision painful.

 

I am so happy you have that. That certainty, and you aren't minimising. I tried to minimise when I went in to NC and was just wasting my own time. You sounds so relaxed about it all. I guess that comes with time.

 

I know we both love each other. Who knows if someday, somewhere we will be together. But I know that this can never be while he is still in the situation he is in, and I just couldn't take the asymmetry of it any more. It was hurting me so much, it was just so unbalanced, it was too much to take, even for love.

 

Love is not enough. Love does amazing things, I personally can do amazing things for love. But it does not feed and clothe us and breathe air in to our lungs. There comes a time when the cost/benefit analysis does not weigh in love's favour. Currently I feel grateful every day for the love in my heart and the fact I know MM. That will wear off, I assume...

 

And from his perspective, I understand that rationalities can and do trump deep emotional feelings, and that's the sad reality of life. I don't doubt his feelings, I don't doubt what he deeply wants and that he wants more than most things to be with me. I just think that even though I would tend to make decisions based on my feelings, he doesn't and he won't, and that I have to leave up to him.

 

So I feel that he is in a relationship that is probably inadequate, and unfulfilling. I doubt it's a living hell - I'm sure it's tolerable roomate style that I am pretty personally familiar with as are alot of ppl I know. I think he wishes in his heart this could be different. I think that logistically, it is impossible now for him to do anything about it and will just find his joy out of his job and his kids and leave it at that. I'm not sure if he does or will ever have a long term plan. It's not his thing - it's just the way he is. I'm the planner in the relationship

 

Anyway, I find it interesting that the very ways we complement each other when we're together are what actually tears us apart when we're not. Weird....

 

Your last comment. Made me smile. MM and I have talked many times about our balance. We are not at all opposites, not at all. But in some ways we complement each other very very well indeed. And in places we need. There are faults of his that serve me well, that help me to grow and learn some new skills I could do with. And vice cersa. And we have seen that happening. It's wonderful.

 

But now, apart, those differences conjure chasms between us and I don't like it.

[fooled once]

Tell him to call you when he is divorced.

 

Period.

 

Then you won't have the guilt you talk about regarding seeing her husband behind her back.

 

Then he won't feel the pressure you give him about ending his marriage.

 

Put it truly in his hands -- tell him to NOT call you until he is 100% divorced.

 

See if his actions match his words.

 

If he doesn't, then in MY view, he wasn't as invested as you think he is.

 

I firmly believe if he wanted to, and if he really wanted out of the marriage, he would NOT have gone on vacation with his wife; I don't care if it was planned during the time you were not talking. The fact of the matter is, you went back to him and he still chose, weeks later, to go on vacation with his wife.

 

My ex and I had planned things, but I chose instead to divorce. I didn't make a farce out of our marriage any longer once I realized I was done. I didn't 'pretend' to care about him by going on vacation, or going away together, or whatever.

 

If he really really wants to be with you, this 'fear' of telling her would fly out the window. Sorry Silly, but I just think you are way more 'invested' than he is.

 

I have a very hard time with people who make out their marriage to be this unloving, unpassionate, unfullfilling relationship and they have this loving, passionate fulfilling relationship waiting for them, yet they don't make the move. To me, that doesn't mean love .... that means fantasy, dreaming but not actually taking the action to have that come true.

[You Go Girl]

Your MM thinks that he has a 'get out of jail' free card because his W previously had an affair.

He probably does have such a card to play.

So his M is on safe ground.

 

Who would want a man that didn't have enough balls to tell the truth and straighten out his life? Can you imagine how wishy-washy he must be when married, how non-committed, how lacking a back-bone?

Your MM is not someone I would want in my life, sorry.

[torranceshipman]

But I also believe we belong together and there is genuinely nothing that has happened so far that is a deal-breaker for me.

 

In this case, I would sit down and really establish exactly where your boundaries lie, and act accordingly. I.e. if MM comes back from his vacation and hasn't told the W anything (which I bet he hasn't), will that be a deal breaker? Or will you give him more time, and if so, how much? Or will you tell the W, and if so, what actions of his (if any) would be considered a deal breaker and reason for you to move on?

 

And will you need to see a difference between his words and actions? - that might be a good boundary to have. E.g. if he comes back from vacation with a story about how he told his W, but she said oh don't leave, let's try harder, and he says, I just can't leave, I owe it to her to give her another shot, etc, are you going to believe all of that? Or will it be more of a case of 'I need 'x' actions, if I don't get it, it is over/I tell the W, etc'? IMO you need to look at actions now.

[torranceshipman]

Tell him to call you when he is divorced.

 

Period.

 

Then you won't have the guilt you talk about regarding seeing her husband behind her back.

 

Then he won't feel the pressure you give him about ending his marriage.

 

Put it truly in his hands -- tell him to NOT call you until he is 100% divorced.

 

See if his actions match his words.

 

If he doesn't, then in MY view, he wasn't as invested as you think he is.

 

I firmly believe if he wanted to, and if he really wanted out of the marriage, he would NOT have gone on vacation with his wife; I don't care if it was planned during the time you were not talking. The fact of the matter is, you went back to him and he still chose, weeks later, to go on vacation with his wife.

 

My ex and I had planned things, but I chose instead to divorce. I didn't make a farce out of our marriage any longer once I realized I was done. I didn't 'pretend' to care about him by going on vacation, or going away together, or whatever.

 

If he really really wants to be with you, this 'fear' of telling her would fly out the window. Sorry Silly, but I just think you are way more 'invested' than he is.

 

I have a very hard time with people who make out their marriage to be this unloving, unpassionate, unfullfilling relationship and they have this loving, passionate fulfilling relationship waiting for them, yet they don't make the move. To me, that doesn't mean love .... that means fantasy, dreaming but not actually taking the action to have that come true.

 

I have to say I agree with every word of this.

[awkward]

Awkward, would you please mind elaborating on your last point? I'd be interested, thanks.

 

Long story short, I don't think he is ready. The key to this working out the way you want is that he is ready to deal with the situation. How will a conflict avoider handle a huge conflict thrown at him without any preparation before hand?

 

Have you ever hypothetically discussed what would happen if your affair was exposed? Not what his wife would do, but what he would do? If so, what did his physical reaction look like?

 

If you want to continue your relationship with this man, my advice is to avoid a D-day. If you don't want to be the OW anymore, my advice would be to walk away. Forcing a D-day is like going all-in. You either win or lose big.

Edited August 20, 2010 by awkward

[Silly_Girl]

In this case, I would sit down and really establish exactly where your boundaries lie, and act accordingly. I.e. if MM comes back from his vacation and hasn't told the W anything (which I bet he hasn't), will that be a deal breaker? Or will you give him more time, and if so, how much? Or will you tell the W, and if so, what actions of his (if any) would be considered a deal breaker and reason for you to move on?

 

And will you need to see a difference between his words and actions? - that might be a good boundary to have. E.g. if he comes back from vacation with a story about how he told his W, but she said oh don't leave, let's try harder, and he says, I just can't leave, I owe it to her to give her another shot, etc, are you going to believe all of that? Or will it be more of a case of 'I need 'x' actions, if I don't get it, it is over/I tell the W, etc'? IMO you need to look at actions now.

 

That's excellent advice. I've penned some thoughts on it this morning. None of it's pretty, which won't surprise you!!!

 

In fact, I can already predict what he's going to say, I think. That should make my job easier. Only makes it harder! But I have a few days to whittle it down and be sure. I've already pushed out timeline-wise, in my head, the need for action on my part. Feel generally more relaxed due to posting on here and my thoughts being more constructive and purposeful. Thanks.

[Silly_Girl]

Tell him to call you when he is divorced.

 

Period.

 

Then you won't have the guilt you talk about regarding seeing her husband behind her back.

 

Then he won't feel the pressure you give him about ending his marriage.

 

Put it truly in his hands -- tell him to NOT call you until he is 100% divorced.

 

See if his actions match his words.

 

If he doesn't, then in MY view, he wasn't as invested as you think he is.

 

I firmly believe if he wanted to, and if he really wanted out of the marriage, he would NOT have gone on vacation with his wife; I don't care if it was planned during the time you were not talking. The fact of the matter is, you went back to him and he still chose, weeks later, to go on vacation with his wife.

 

My ex and I had planned things, but I chose instead to divorce. I didn't make a farce out of our marriage any longer once I realized I was done. I didn't 'pretend' to care about him by going on vacation, or going away together, or whatever.

 

That's YOU FO. That is what you would do. I remember going along with a purchase of concert tickets, knowing damn well I wouldn't be going with my husband. But that time, that moment, I was not ready to tell him. It took me a year in all. Once I told him, I was resolute and dealt with anything and everything that came my way. But we all do these things differently.

 

If he really really wants to be with you, this 'fear' of telling her would fly out the window. Sorry Silly, but I just think you are way more 'invested' than he is.

 

I have a very hard time with people who make out their marriage to be this unloving, unpassionate, unfullfilling relationship and they have this loving, passionate fulfilling relationship waiting for them, yet they don't make the move. To me, that doesn't mean love .... that means fantasy, dreaming but not actually taking the action to have that come true.

 

He's actually very polite about his wife. Doesn't make her out to be evil, or nasty and actually quite the opposite; that's why he's finding it hard. She's a 'good person' who's been through a 'hard time' and he's so relieved there isn't all this torture and anguish in her life, that he feels like the biggest b**tard in the world to now shatter that. He knows he must, and says he will, yet still it does not happen.

[Silly_Girl]

Your MM thinks that he has a 'get out of jail' free card because his W previously had an affair.

He probably does have such a card to play.

So his M is on safe ground.

 

You could be right there, yes.

 

Who would want a man that didn't have enough balls to tell the truth and straighten out his life? Can you imagine how wishy-washy he must be when married, how non-committed, how lacking a back-bone?

Your MM is not someone I would want in my life, sorry.

 

That's what you see, and of course you do. My best friend has a man who makes her happier than I have seen her in years. But there are two things about him that means I don't approve of him for my friend, he's not good enough for her. But I don't see what she sees. I see those two things. I don't see when he's there for her, how well they get on, the intimacy they share, the way they complement each other, the qualities he has that I will never ever see, from this vantage point.

 

MM has made small steps to sorting things (in his world, these are HUGE things, can't stress that enough), just not how I would have liked or as quickly as I would have liked. At the moment I feel strongly we are heading in the right direction, but I can't find it in myself to sit back and accept that as enough.

[Silly_Girl]

Long story short, I don't think he is ready. The key to this working out the way you want is that he is ready to deal with the situation. How will a conflict avoider handle a huge conflict thrown at him without any preparation before hand?

 

True.

 

Have you ever hypothetically discussed what would happen if your affair was exposed? Not what his wife would do, but what he would do? If so, what did his physical reaction look like?

 

No. That's a conversation we definitely need to have.

 

If you want to continue your relationship with this man, my advice is to avoid a D-day. If you don't want to be the OW anymore, my advice would be to walk away. Forcing a D-day is like going all-in. You either win or lose big.

 

If I'm honest some of this is due to my own inability to walk away from this situation. I don't want to let go yet, there are times we seem so close to 'making it', and I know I want to have a bona fide relationship with him.

 

Some of this consideration is so that any decision-making is off my shoulders. Once (if) I've told her I can walk away knowing (or rather, telling myself) I have done anything and everything I can in pursuit of the relationship we both say we want, and there is no going back. His wife will know the true status of her relationship and can stop with the confusion she has currently and make a decision that suits her instead of MM making those calls on her behalf.

[Silly_Girl]

Things have been so bad at home for a few weeks due to many issues (60-80 hour working weeks during school hols for a start!) and I'm really struggling to keep my head above water. I'm re-reading and seeing so many points I missed 1st, 2nd, 3rd time round, and it's all helping me such a lot. I just wanted to say a teary thank you for the replies, even (and especially) to those who believe they are posting to a crazylady who can't see past the end of her nose.

 

I'm no further forward, but - as I hoped - when I look stand at the fork in the road and peer down each path trying to decide, I can see that much further and clearer than I did without you guys.

[Pink_orchid]

I know of two situations where the mistress has told the wife. In the first case, the mistress and husband ended up married and are still together, I'm glad to say, as they are good friends. But initially it caused all sorts of trouble and my friend was dropped by the MM for several months and was very upset. He went No Contact and went off to work on the marriage. He did leave eventually though.

 

Second scenario, married man cooled affair due to 'couldn't continue with the double life' - guilt, didn't want to hurt wife and kids etc (well... he said). Turned out he had another woman. The mistress reluctantly accepted his reasoning despite a lot of hurt, only to encounter him in a bar, all over another woman, who he was kissing passionately. So the wife got a phone call off the irate mistress, telling him about their affair and also what she had just seen. There followed a lot of trouble, wife phoned husband (who was still in the bar) wife went round to mistress's house, and they had a verbal slanging match, husband turned up and tried to deny everything and made my friend out to be a bit of a stalker! Yet when the dust had settled, he still wanted to continue the affair with her, my friend thankfully, told him where to go!! He told my friend that if they could 'just lay low' for a while, it could all be fine again!! Obviously he never had any intention of leaving his wife, just wanted his cake and eat it, like I fear, does your man. Eventually the couple divorced but this was due to him having numerous affairs. Apparently the wife did know about them all along but was a 'bury your head in the sand' type, but one day she must have decided she'd had enough.

 

As for you SG, I feel for you, but I don't think it's going to work out in your favour. I think quite simply he'd leave if he wanted to. He knows he has you to stand by him and protect him and he's still not going anywhere, in fact he's on a family holiday, it doesn't look good.

 

I've had two involvements with married men and I know how it hurts to let go, I still hurt, but I think you should try and accept that he's not leaving and get on with your life. In a way the wife deserves to know; could you not tell her indirectly, i.e. anonymously, as if you tell her directly it will upset him, he will see it as a personal attack, I know he shouldn't but he will. I think he is going to stay with his wife, but I suppose you have nothing to lose by spilling the beans. You may lose him but that's surely better than this limbo state and it will bring things to head one way or another.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Pink_orchid

[fooled once]

He's actually very polite about his wife. Doesn't make her out to be evil, or nasty and actually quite the opposite; that's why he's finding it hard. She's a 'good person' who's been through a 'hard time' and he's so relieved there isn't all this torture and anguish in her life, that he feels like the biggest b**tard in the world to now shatter that. He knows he must, and says he will, yet still it does not happen.

 

You are correct, that was ME. I never said it was the way. I said in MY experience. I never once implied it had to be that way, not sure why you were so defensive about it.

 

I remember pretty clearly when you joined and the feelings you were having about why you ended it and the reasons behind it. Seems like you have done a complete 180 on it all and you are basically, in MY view, right back to where you were when you joined.

 

Good luck to you and whatever decisions he does or doesn't make. Seems like nothing has really changed, except that the healing you had done is now a thing of the past. As Owoman has said many times, (at least from what I have gotten out of her posts) if you don't put boundaries in place and don't demand/expect to be treated as a partner, then you (general you) will continue to be an option instead of a priority. If you are willing to be the OW, then that is what you (again, general you) will be. I believe many women who date single guys wouldn't be happy with being treated as less than a partner; I don't understand why OW (not anyone specific, just again in general) accept less from a MM.

[Silly_Girl]

You are correct, that was ME. I never said it was the way. I said in MY experience. I never once implied it had to be that way, not sure why you were so defensive about it.

 

FO, I love your posts, I didn't mean to be defensive. I was only pointing out that we all react differently to different things. You did what you did, in YOUR circumstances with YOUR priorities and intentions, I reacted to ending my marriage in a different way. I tend not to be rigid in my dealings with people, I tend to be emotion-led, others are not. There was no offence taken or intended

 

I remember pretty clearly when you joined and the feelings you were having about why you ended it and the reasons behind it. Seems like you have done a complete 180 on it all and you are basically, in MY view, right back to where you were when you joined.

 

Been driving around today, been thinking about how I felt then versus now. Been imagining myself being back there, only stronger.

 

Good luck to you and whatever decisions he does or doesn't make. Seems like nothing has really changed, except that the healing you had done is now a thing of the past. As Owoman has said many times, (at least from what I have gotten out of her posts) if you don't put boundaries in place and don't demand/expect to be treated as a partner, then you (general you) will continue to be an option instead of a priority. If you are willing to be the OW, then that is what you (again, general you) will be. I believe many women who date single guys wouldn't be happy with being treated as less than a partner; I don't understand why OW (not anyone specific, just again in general) accept less from a MM.

 

No, I know. The situation, really, is as much about my own deficiencies as it is his. I'm thinking about how my ex could get me 'back on board' eventually, after the most heinous events. I want those boundaries. I had them, originally, in me. Every single post here has helped me, hardly any have made me feel 'better' or fluffy, but I am grateful for them and I am more likely to make the right decision as a result.

[fooled once]

Despite what others think only we each individually can make our own decisions for ourselves based on our wants/needs/desires, etc.

 

Silly, I watched you really grow and move through the hurt these last months. I truly hate the thought of you being back in that pain and that hurt. BUT if that is what you have to go through, I hope you know I will be here, supporting you in the way I know how to support each person individually (no matter what others think, I hardly believe those of us who are anti-affairs post the same 'cookie cutter' response time and time again).

 

I have always felt a kinship with you Silly .... I have admired how you came through the flames and out and learned why you got singed. I just hate the thought of you having to go through that all again, no matter how much stronger you are.

 

I do want you to have your 'happily ever after', but I sincerely do not think it is with this guy. I think what you have learned from your marriage and this guy will help you succeed in your next relationship and you won't have to be the driving 'force' for someone to make a decision. They will make decisions based on their wants and needs and they won't leave you twisting in the wind with words and a dream. They will take action to make your happily ever after come true. ((hugs))

[White Flower]

SG I went through something not dissimilar with my H. He made several attempts to have "the talk" with his xW, with similar results to those you outline. Because, like your MM's M, their R had been entirely focused on her happiness, her wants and needs, he similarly felt guilty about "abandoning" her (especially as, during a previous separation, she'd fallen apart completely, become suicidal, and it had all placed huge strain on the kids who'd suffered terribly) but unable to speak up and assert his own right to his own desires, wants and needs - which had been so suppressed throughout their R that he had not even recognised that he had any, before the A alerted him to those.

 

The difference is - my H was in IC. This allowed him, over time, to reclaim his agency, and to force "the talk" - even though it dídn't go according to plan (she didn't believe him). Still, taking the agency and mustering the courage to face her, to face his own emasculation and finally to leave, has allowed him to continue that trajectory in our R, so there's been little chance of our M sliding down into the same deadly dynamic of theirs.

 

By outing the A to his W, you run the risk of taking that momentum from him, of depriving him of his agency and putting yourself into a position of power over him - which could wreck the dynamic of your R. That is a risk. Alternately, freeing him from the crippling constraints of his M could allow him to embrace the opportunity to face his own demons, to regain his sense of agency and to work hard (through IC or other appropriate means) to become "whole" again. And you won't know which way it could go until it happens.

 

I had time - I had my own contextual issues to resolve - so I did not have the same sense of urgency you seem to have, and I could wait until IC delivered him into the place where he could stand up and do what he needed to, by himself. You're not there, and your MM is not in the same place (via IC) that my H was at that time. So you'll need to review all the evidence you have, and make your best educated guess as to the probable outcome of telling her - and then act on that.

 

Good luck - whichever decision you make

 

Thank you so much. Your reply has made me cry but I needed to read it. And I'll do so again and again. I feel so torn. And confused, not about my feelings but what is the right thing to do for everyone, including me.

 

Thanks again OWoman. It is easy for people not to believe men like this exist. He had no clue he could feel this way or that people could behave as I do, as he does when he's with me etc. But it was there, deep deep down he had a feeling something wasn't right, but just went with the flow, doing what was right and he nearly had a breakdown when she made it clear how very very unhappy he was making her, yet she did nothing to show him what was wrong, where he was deficient, merely made him feel as though he was a terrible and uncaring husband which really wasn't the case.

I think we are all involved with a similar type of guy. W's happiness comes first at the cost of MM's, then unacknowledged resentment sets in and As happen. I am in no way blaming the BS here, it is what it is, but the BS enjoys the position she is in and it is MM's own fault for hoisting her up there.

 

OWoman, how long was your H in IC?

 

And Silly Girl, I wish you the best in whatever you choose to do.

 

I guess I best go read the rest of the thread before I comment further.

[White Flower]

I guess I best go read the rest of the thread before I comment further.

Okay, I read the whole thread.

 

He is definitely PA (passive/aggressive) and a CA (conflict avoider). I do know this type for sure.

 

I won't offer advice because I'm too close to it in my own situation, but I will be watching this thread due to interest.

 

SG, it really is a crap shoot. The forcing of D-day WILL push him off the fence, but on which side of it? And if it is not your side, can you realistically cope with the fallout? Can you cope with the fallout either way?

[2sunny]

Things have been so bad at home for a few weeks due to many issues (60-80 hour working weeks during school hols for a start!) and I'm really struggling to keep my head above water. I'm re-reading and seeing so many points I missed 1st, 2nd, 3rd time round, and it's all helping me such a lot. I just wanted to say a teary thank you for the replies, even (and especially) to those who believe they are posting to a crazylady who can't see past the end of her nose.

 

I'm no further forward, but - as I hoped - when I look stand at the fork in the road and peer down each path trying to decide, I can see that much further and clearer than I did without you guys.

 

with all that you have going on - it may be in YOUR best interest to consider what is best for YOU.

 

consider stepping away completely for a while. focus on YOU. without all the distractions and manipulations and heartache that can be very distracting when you need this time to stay focused on what's in front of you.

 

if the job is that demanding - eliminate your distractions for a bit of focus and clarity. keep him (and his waffling nature) at bay so YOU can do what needs to be done effectively each day.

[Fieldsofgold]

with all that you have going on - it may be in YOUR best interest to consider what is best for YOU.

 

consider stepping away completely for a while. focus on YOU. without all the distractions and manipulations and heartache that can be very distracting when you need this time to stay focused on what's in front of you.

 

if the job is that demanding - eliminate your distractions for a bit of focus and clarity. keep him (and his waffling nature) at bay so YOU can do what needs to be done effectively each day.

 

after reading all the posts, I think this is good advice. I would not do anything, one way or the other, while you have so much on your plate in other areas.

 

I really do think he loves you, just as he says, and I think he really, desperately wants the happy ever after with you. I think that is his plan, and his intent.

 

I think you are right about him being one person with you, and a different person with his wife. I really don't expect that you would have those same kinds of issues with him, or certainly not to that extent.

 

Whether he can follow through with leaving, is another matter.

 

I have seen a similar type relationship, up close, for 50 years, in my family. I would venture to say that your MM wife is a master manipulator. Right now she most likely wants the security of having him around (and finances?) She had no qualms about leaving him, but makes him feel guilted to the hilt about leaving her. And she would leave him again, if a better offer came along. . .and he doesn't confront her because she has trained him over the years to fear her reaction . . . don't rock the boat, at all costs.

 

. . . but will he have the cahoonas to leave? I don't know. But under these circumstances, I am not at all sure that YOU contacting her would accomplish anything beneficial for any of you. I expect that if you contacted her, she woild manipulate him even harder to stay, since she's in it for security, not in it for a real relationship.

 

I think if he really wants out, he should pack up while she's out of the house, and leave her a "Dear Jane" letter. Normally I would not approve that, but she's so manipulative that I think that may be his best/only option for success anytime in the forseeable future. I think OWoman is right, too. I think this is something he needs to do. He needs to find a way to make the break. (and I am usually an advocate for telling the wife, but this is not a normal situation in any regard.)

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. I am sending you all my best wishes and prayers. I wish there were more I could do.

[Silly_Girl]

IMHO MM may not like it that you went over his head and told his wife what he must tell his wife. Additionally, if you were his wife and received your "email" how would you process it? Good? Bad? Ugly?

 

I would totally freak. Totally. I would be disgusted on two levels. One, that he found himself in that situation, that he took steps to CREATE that situation. But secondly, and more importantly to me, that he wasn't prepared to own up.

 

Just my two cents.

 

p.s. If you had found a decent single guy you wouldn't be going through all this doubt, pain and angst. Food for thought, not a judgement.

 

I know. I see you post this in a few threads YS, and it always gives me a wry smile.

 

At the moment I can't even begin to consider there could be anyone else out there. There's one man in the whole of the world. I know I won't always feel like that, but right now I feel it really strongly.

[Fieldsofgold]

Just wanted to say that no matter what you decide, you have my support. No one can know for sure what is the right thing to do; we can only speculate. You are there. You know him. You have better intuition than anyone what is best in the situation.

 

I just want a good outcome for you.

[Silly_Girl]

I've done lots of thinking. Lots. Took my son camping this weekend and once I had woken at daybreak (thanks less to the cock crowing in the next field than the portly guy snoring in the next tent!) I couldn't stop my wee mind from whirring away.

 

By outing the A to his W, you run the risk of taking that momentum from him, of depriving him of his agency and putting yourself into a position of power over him - which could wreck the dynamic of your R. That is a risk. Alternately, freeing him from the crippling constraints of his M could allow him to embrace the opportunity to face his own demons, to regain his sense of agency and to work hard (through IC or other appropriate means) to become "whole" again. And you won't know which way it could go until it happens.

 

I was thinking, that possibly my taking this action puts him in a position of power over me (I don't like that concept). Because he hasn't actively and positively chosen me - so that puts me on the back foot, perhaps?

 

I do feel I am not happy giving MM's wife the power to decide what happens in MY life. Interestingly that very statement is something I have said to MM in the past, when we've been making (trying to make) plans, and yet here I am doing it in a bigger (nastier, messier) way. Don't like it.

 

Not withstanding the above, if I told her and was hoping for her to throw MM out (for example, not saying that's what I want), as has been pointed out I would need to ensure MM knew what was on the horizon, so he can deal with it in a positive (?) manner i.e. use it as an opportunity to make the break from the marriage. So that leaves me discussing with him how she may react, what he may have to do etc etc <yawn>. If he's prepared to deal with that fall-out then he damn well should be the one to tell her himself (minimise the impact on her in that way and reduce my visibility). So that's just another argument against my telling her.

 

I do want her to know, whether I remain on the scene or not. As much as, in my mind, she owns a good deal of the blame in their situation, I don't condone her being lied to and her not understanding the boundaries of her marriage. We should all know what goes on in our own relationships. If we don't like it, we can take action.

 

In terms of my feeling an urgency. I guess I do, or certainly did when I originally posted. They have a significant wedding anniversary in a few weeks, then Christmas, then her birthday then his 40th. MM wanted me to give him a few more weeks but I knew (know) because of how she's hanging on these days she will be pushing him to sign up for all sorts of stuff over the next few months. And, if he hasn't been honest about me, he has no reason to say No. And then we're all back on the merry-go-round yet again.

 

Plus, when I got my life back from the devil-ex I felt like the luckiest person alive. Every day was a gift. I wasted 8 years on that pig, back then I wanted more children, and he said he would be up for that, then wouldn't, then would etc etc. I do still want the chance to have a family, or to be with someone with whom my son can have a bond before he's off to uni and flown the nest. I regretted so much believing my ex that he was going to change, the promises and the lies. If I had not experienced this then perhaps my er... 'desperation level' would be lower, but I don't want to throw years away on someone else who doesn't deserve it. I am a good partner, in many ways, and I deserve better. I feel strangely serene right now, I feel totally certain in my deepest heart that things will work out, that MM and I will find our way through. But - there is a rational side that's looking out for me and wanting me to have some reassurance that this is worth hanging around for. And I don't feel I have that right now.

 

Every promise MM has ever made me, he's kept. Except the ones about telling his wife... There must be a limit on time, or on chances.

 

FoG, your Dear Jane idea. I NEVER thought that would be something I could ever condone. But in this case I think of it as a real possibility. I have also suggested to him that he send an initial email to her; telling her in one or two sentences what he needs to talk to her about when he's home that night, for example, so that THE deed is done, and it's a question of moving on from there. But they don't email, they barely text and he seemed to think it would be no easier if, at the end of the day, he still needs to face her.

 

I need to find out first whether anything has changed in respect of his intentions. I then need to find out when he intends to tell her, and if there is nothing concrete forthcoming I need to consider

1) a period of space so I can get my 'house in order' and deal with the many balls I have in the air, and ask him to consider IC in the meantime

2) telling him I will tell her myself. If I threaten that I have to be prepared to carry it out.

 

In the case of 2) it would either then lead to full-on NC (which I must throw myself in to), or him extricating himself from the house and marriage with almost immediate effect. Assuming the latter, I don't see there being a middle ground with him staying there in the week until he can change his job of ten years. I think that would be messy as hell, for all 3 concerned and would constitute a living hell for MM.

 

So that leads to him needing somewhere to live, and a shiny new CV - pronto. Hhmmmm.

 

Reading the above back, it's getting almost to the point where NC would be a rest!!!

 

I definitely need something, from him. I'm sure of that. I have been flexible and supportive and understanding. So even if there's not a massive change in our circumstances tomorrow or the next day, I need a plan of some sort. And I guess if MM can't offer me that, after everything, then I need to accept that this IS the best on offer and get out.

 

Thanks chaps and chapesses. Am very grateful.

[Silly_Girl]

Just wanted to say that no matter what you decide, you have my support. No one can know for sure what is the right thing to do; we can only speculate. You are there. You know him. You have better intuition than anyone what is best in the situation.

 

I just want a good outcome for you.

 

Oh FoG. Thank you. And Fooled kindly said the same. I feel really privileged. And grateful. And a little bowled over.

[WTFBBQ]

I do feel I am not happy giving MM's wife the power to decide what happens in MY life.

Thats richly self entitled since that's what you two are doing to her!

[Silly_Girl]

I'm acutely aware of that. I would not be anywhere near so eager to reach a resolution if it did not plague me that she has been put in this position. I know my life would be a whole lot easier if I could simply ignore her existence.