Forcing Dday. Things to consider?

[White Flower]

I do feel I am not happy giving MM's wife the power to decide what happens in MY life. Interestingly that very statement is something I have said to MM in the past, when we've been making (trying to make) plans, and yet here I am doing it in a bigger (nastier, messier) way. Don't like it.

 

 

Thats richly self entitled since that's what you two are doing to her!

 

Okay, I've thought about this and I think it may be worth starting a new thread.

 

If the BW doesn't know about the A, and has her H 6 and 1/2 days per week and is perfectly happy with those 6 and 1/2 days, is the OW really 'doing' anything to the W?

 

I'll answer, no her H is the one doing it to her. But that doesn't mean to say that SG can't play politics with her own life including the .25 percent of the week she has MM.

[Fieldsofgold]

I've done lots of thinking. Lots. Took my son camping this weekend and once I had woken at daybreak (thanks less to the cock crowing in the next field than the portly guy snoring in the next tent!) I couldn't stop my wee mind from whirring away.

 

I'm glad you and son had a nice weekend. The portly guy snoring made me laugh! Some peaceful retreat!

 

I was thinking, that possibly my taking this action puts him in a position of power over me (I don't like that concept). Because he hasn't actively and positively chosen me - so that puts me on the back foot, perhaps?

 

Not sure I understand this.

 

I do feel I am not happy giving MM's wife the power to decide what happens in MY life. Interestingly that very statement is something I have said to MM in the past, when we've been making (trying to make) plans, and yet here I am doing it in a bigger (nastier, messier) way. Don't like it.

 

I agree about not wanting the W to have control!

 

Not withstanding the above, if I told her and was hoping for her to throw MM out (for example, not saying that's what I want), as has been pointed out I would need to ensure MM knew what was on the horizon, so he can deal with it in a positive (?) manner i.e. use it as an opportunity to make the break from the marriage. So that leaves me discussing with him how she may react, what he may have to do etc etc <yawn>. If he's prepared to deal with that fall-out then he damn well should be the one to tell her himself (minimise the impact on her in that way and reduce my visibility). So that's just another argument against my telling her.

 

I really don't see her throwing him out. She won't leg go until it suits HER plans, I fear. I also fear that she would be more manipulative and controlling if she knew about you.

 

I do want her to know, whether I remain on the scene or not. As much as, in my mind, she owns a good deal of the blame in their situation, I don't condone her being lied to and her not understanding the boundaries of her marriage. We should all know what goes on in our own relationships. If we don't like it, we can take action.

 

normally, yes, I think absolutely that the BS should know. And YES, a lot of their problems lie with her (no sex EVER with her H, then an A, then back to H because OM dumped her, then still no sex? In my state. they would not even be considered legally married - never consumated!) HOWEVER - this is not a normal marriage by ANY stretch (does he realize that?), and I think she would just make it harder for him to leave if she knew - so I just don't know . . .

 

In terms of my feeling an urgency. I guess I do, or certainly did when I originally posted. They have a significant wedding anniversary in a few weeks, then Christmas, then her birthday then his 40th. MM wanted me to give him a few more weeks but I knew (know) because of how she's hanging on these days she will be pushing him to sign up for all sorts of stuff over the next few months. And, if he hasn't been honest about me, he has no reason to say No. And then we're all back on the merry-go-round yet again.

 

OMG yes! That merry-go-round could go on forever!

 

Plus, when I got my life back from the devil-ex I felt like the luckiest person alive. Every day was a gift. I wasted 8 years on that pig, back then I wanted more children, and he said he would be up for that, then wouldn't, then would etc etc. I do still want the chance to have a family, or to be with someone with whom my son can have a bond before he's off to uni and flown the nest. I regretted so much believing my ex that he was going to change, the promises and the lies. If I had not experienced this then perhaps my er... 'desperation level' would be lower, but I don't want to throw years away on someone else who doesn't deserve it. I am a good partner, in many ways, and I deserve better. I feel strangely serene right now, I feel totally certain in my deepest heart that things will work out, that MM and I will find our way through. But - there is a rational side that's looking out for me and wanting me to have some reassurance that this is worth hanging around for. And I don't feel I have that right now.

 

yea, I think a time limit and something concrete you can expect is totally the respectful thing for him to do for you.

 

Every promise MM has ever made me, he's kept. Except the ones about telling his wife... There must be a limit on time, or on chances.

 

FoG, your Dear Jane idea. I NEVER thought that would be something I could ever condone. But in this case I think of it as a real possibility. I have also suggested to him that he send an initial email to her; telling her in one or two sentences what he needs to talk to her about when he's home that night, for example, so that THE deed is done, and it's a question of moving on from there. But they don't email, they barely text and he seemed to think it would be no easier if, at the end of the day, he still needs to face her.

 

yes, I NEVER would have thought I'd suggest a Dear Jane --- but under the extremely absurd terms she has set for their M, and with her history, etc., I don't think it such a bad idea. I mean - this woman has never had sex with her H, but has had an A with OM!!!????!!! Puleeese! IMHO, I think he owes her next to nothing. And I'm pro-BS

 

I need to find out first whether anything has changed in respect of his intentions. I then need to find out when he intends to tell her, and if there is nothing concrete forthcoming I need to consider

1) a period of space so I can get my 'house in order' and deal with the many balls I have in the air, and ask him to consider IC in the meantime

2) telling him I will tell her myself. If I threaten that I have to be prepared to carry it out.

 

In the case of 2) it would either then lead to full-on NC (which I must throw myself in to), or him extricating himself from the house and marriage with almost immediate effect. Assuming the latter, I don't see there being a middle ground with him staying there in the week until he can change his job of ten years. I think that would be messy as hell, for all 3 concerned and would constitute a living hell for MM.

 

So that leads to him needing somewhere to live, and a shiny new CV - pronto. Hhmmmm.

 

Reading the above back, it's getting almost to the point where NC would be a rest!!!

 

Seriously! NC would almost be a relief, wouldn't it! In my mind, I'm thinking discuss all these options with him. Then a defined period of NC with a set time limit, while he thinks about what he want to do - along with IC if he will go. Then meet again and see where his head's at.

 

I definitely need something, from him. I'm sure of that. I have been flexible and supportive and understanding. So even if there's not a massive change in our circumstances tomorrow or the next day, I need a plan of some sort. And I guess if MM can't offer me that, after everything, then I need to accept that this IS the best on offer and get out.

 

This is absolutely true. You do need something concrete. It may be that he does not have the fortitude to leave. O his love and missing you may give him the impetus he needs. I hope so. At any rate, I think he REALLY needs IC.

 

(((((hugs and prayers)))))

 

Thanks chaps and chapesses. Am very grateful.

 

Have never been called a chapess before! <giggle>

[WTFBBQ]

That or stop schtupping her husband until he gets a divorce. Not rocket science.

[BB07]

That or stop schtupping her husband until he gets a divorce. Not rocket science.

 

 

Ding........ding.............ding...........and the winner is, WTFBBQ for the most simplistic and let's not forget short, hit and run response of the day.

 

Congrats. :rolleyes:

[Silly_Girl]

Have never been called a chapess before! <giggle>

 

Thanks so much for the feedback WF, with no one to really talk to at this end it means a lot to be able to sense-check my thoughts! I feel I have clear routes now, even if they're not ones I'd welcome.

[Fieldsofgold]

That or stop schtupping her husband until he gets a divorce. Not rocket science.

 

She already did that

[White Flower]

Thanks so much for the feedback WF, with no one to really talk to at this end it means a lot to be able to sense-check my thoughts! I feel I have clear routes now, even if they're not ones I'd welcome.

Er...it was FoG you quoted...but you're welcome anyway:love::cool:

[Silly_Girl]

Thanks so much for the feedback FOG!!!

 

Dozy mare. Got your name wrong. Sorry!!!!

[Silly_Girl]

Er...it was FoG you quoted...but you're welcome anyway:love::cool:

 

D'oh!! It's because I'm on my phone, I scrolled too quick and had seen your avatar at the top. It's nearly 1am. Is my excuse

[White Flower]

D'oh!! It's because I'm on my phone, I scrolled too quick and had seen your avatar at the top. It's nearly 1am. Is my excuse

That's ok, you're allowed. Now, go to bed and that's an order young lady!

[fooled once]

I've done lots of thinking. Lots. Took my son camping this weekend and once I had woken at daybreak (thanks less to the cock crowing in the next field than the portly guy snoring in the next tent!) I couldn't stop my wee mind from whirring away.

 

Glad you had a good time and had some mom/son bonding!!

 

I was thinking, that possibly my taking this action puts him in a position of power over me (I don't like that concept). Because he hasn't actively and positively chosen me - so that puts me on the back foot, perhaps?

 

I do feel I am not happy giving MM's wife the power to decide what happens in MY life. Interestingly that very statement is something I have said to MM in the past, when we've been making (trying to make) plans, and yet here I am doing it in a bigger (nastier, messier) way. Don't like it.

 

Not withstanding the above, if I told her and was hoping for her to throw MM out (for example, not saying that's what I want), as has been pointed out I would need to ensure MM knew what was on the horizon, so he can deal with it in a positive (?) manner i.e. use it as an opportunity to make the break from the marriage. So that leaves me discussing with him how she may react, what he may have to do etc etc <yawn>. If he's prepared to deal with that fall-out then he damn well should be the one to tell her himself (minimise the impact on her in that way and reduce my visibility). So that's just another argument against my telling her. I do want her to know, whether I remain on the scene or not. As much as, in my mind, she owns a good deal of the blame in their situation, I don't condone her being lied to and her not understanding the boundaries of her marriage. We should all know what goes on in our own relationships. If we don't like it, we can take action.

 

Okay.... so his wife is to blame for the state of their marriage? Where have his balls been (sorry to be crude). Why did he take her back? Why has he accepted "no sex" (as he claims). Once again, I have to wonder if ALL you have heard from his is the TRUTH or just more of the need for you to be sympathetic for him, having his loveless, sexless marriage to a woman who cheated on him, etc. I know, I know -- he has always told you the truth -- THE TRUTH. Again, that is his truth. Do you think you would be with him if he told you he was having regular sex with his wife?

 

Doesn't he own as much blame as her? I mean, he chose to accept her back after cheating. He chose to continue this 'sexless' marriage. And then he chose to cheat on her. Just because, if it is true, that they have a sexless marriage, he does have other options besides cheating...counseling, separation, etc.

 

In terms of my feeling an urgency. I guess I do, or certainly did when I originally posted. They have a significant wedding anniversary in a few weeks, then Christmas, then her birthday then his 40th. MM wanted me to give him a few more weeks but I knew (know) because of how she's hanging on these days she will be pushing him to sign up for all sorts of stuff over the next few months. And, if he hasn't been honest about me, he has no reason to say No. And then we're all back on the merry-go-round yet again.

 

I feel like you are giving everyone your power. YOU have the power to wait or to continue waiting. Sure, you guys can sit down and 'decide' all these timelines, but what happens when they are broken? What happens if he just can't tell her? And that is what is so strange to me --- if the marriage is loveless and sexless, then why is unable to tell his wife it is over??

 

Plus, when I got my life back from the devil-ex I felt like the luckiest person alive. Every day was a gift. I wasted 8 years on that pig, back then I wanted more children, and he said he would be up for that, then wouldn't, then would etc etc. I do still want the chance to have a family, or to be with someone with whom my son can have a bond before he's off to uni and flown the nest. I regretted so much believing my ex that he was going to change, the promises and the lies. If I had not experienced this then perhaps my er... 'desperation level' would be lower, but I don't want to throw years away on someone else who doesn't deserve it. I am a good partner, in many ways, and I deserve better. I feel strangely serene right now, I feel totally certain in my deepest heart that things will work out, that MM and I will find our way through. But - there is a rational side that's looking out for me and wanting me to have some reassurance that this is worth hanging around for. And I don't feel I have that right now.

 

Every promise MM has ever made me, he's kept. Except the ones about telling his wife... There must be a limit on time, or on chances.

 

Um...Silly, that is a pretty big one, don't you think?

 

There only has to be a time limit if you want to stop being an OW. You could be like some who are just as happy to continue to be the hidden secret. You could just 'enjoy the time you have' ... for year. But something tells me, that isn't you. You don't want to continue to put your romantic life on hold, you don't want to continue to only see him at scheduled intervals. You want the whole package -- morning, noon and night.

 

FoG, your Dear Jane idea. I NEVER thought that would be something I could ever condone. But in this case I think of it as a real possibility. I have also suggested to him that he send an initial email to her; telling her in one or two sentences what he needs to talk to her about when he's home that night, for example, so that THE deed is done, and it's a question of moving on from there. But they don't email, they barely text and he seemed to think it would be no easier if, at the end of the day, he still needs to face her.

 

Tell his wife via text or email he wants a divorce? That is a coward. Sorry, but really? Why is he so scared of her? Where is his spine? He must not be THAT miserable if he can't tell her its over. I don't mean to be snotty, but I just don't get that.

 

We are all here on earth for x amount of years. Why would anyone want to continue to live unhappily ... ESPECIALLY if they have someone on the sidelines they claim to love so much. I am NOT doubting your feelings or his, but he sounds like a coward to me.

 

I need to find out first whether anything has changed in respect of his intentions. I then need to find out when he intends to tell her, and if there is nothing concrete forthcoming I need to consider

1) a period of space so I can get my 'house in order' and deal with the many balls I have in the air, and ask him to consider IC in the meantime

2) telling him I will tell her myself. If I threaten that I have to be prepared to carry it out.

 

In the case of 2) it would either then lead to full-on NC (which I must throw myself in to), or him extricating himself from the house and marriage with almost immediate effect. Assuming the latter, I don't see there being a middle ground with him staying there in the week until he can change his job of ten years. I think that would be messy as hell, for all 3 concerned and would constitute a living hell for MM.

 

So that leads to him needing somewhere to live, and a shiny new CV - pronto. Hhmmmm.

 

huh? I am confused. Why does he need to quit his job he has had for 10 years? Why does he need a new resume? Do they work together?

 

Reading the above back, it's getting almost to the point where NC would be a rest!!!

 

I definitely need something, from him. I'm sure of that. I have been flexible and supportive and understanding. So even if there's not a massive change in our circumstances tomorrow or the next day, I need a plan of some sort. And I guess if MM can't offer me that, after everything, then I need to accept that this IS the best on offer and get out.

 

Thanks chaps and chapesses. Am very grateful.

 

I hope for your sake this ends soon. I don't feel it is your right to tell his wife he is cheating on her and wants out. I think if you have to hand hold him or take over that job of 'being an adult', then you have a lifetime of doing all the decision making ahead of you. That is not the kind of role model you want for your son, IMHO.

 

Does your son know of the affair?

 

When does he get back from vacation with his wife?

[Fieldsofgold]

D'oh!! It's because I'm on my phone, I scrolled too quick and had seen your avatar at the top. It's nearly 1am. Is my excuse

 

LOL! that's ok, WF's cool!( All my typos were because I was using my phone, too!) It was no great post, nothing really relevant to say, no great insights, I had been giving it a lot of thought, was just processing everything mentally, and decided to write it out.

 

When does he return from his trip?

[Mino]

hi Silly Girl, I say throw your cards on the table ! I mean what do you have to lose? i think the w has the right to know, and he surely hasn't had the balls to tell her himself. you ask yourself "why" he just freezes up when it comes to telling? Its a combo of fear and also for him, his situation is not sooo bad, he has a wife and he has you. Its the lesser of the the two evil, and its easier to remain in status que. Its selfishness on his part. Dont waste any more years in this triangle ! Accept whatever happens would have happened anyway. I played my mm game for years, listened to tons of excuses, heard many "soons" and watched many deadlines come and go. In the meantime they celebrated every holiday today while I was alone. christmas is only months away......take control of your life again!!! Dont be the bench sitter, Dont baby him, he needs to take some kind of responsiblity too. Change the rules of this A! Trust me, after almost 6 years, I would have changed many things early on and not have suffered years if I would have know then what I know now.. i wish you strength and finally Peace! mino

[BB07]

hi Silly Girl, I say throw your cards on the table ! I mean what do you have to lose? i think the w has the right to know, and he surely hasn't had the balls to tell her himself. you ask yourself "why" he just freezes up when it comes to telling? Its a combo of fear and also for him, his situation is not sooo bad, he has a wife and he has you. Its the lesser of the the two evil, and its easier to remain in status que. Its selfishness on his part. Dont waste any more years in this triangle ! Accept whatever happens would have happened anyway. I played my mm game for years, listened to tons of excuses, heard many "soons" and watched many deadlines come and go. In the meantime they celebrated every holiday today while I was alone. christmas is only months away......take control of your life again!!! Dont be the bench sitter, Dont baby him, he needs to take some kind of responsiblity too. Change the rules of this A! Trust me, after almost 6 years, I would have changed many things early on and not have suffered years if I would have know then what I know now.. i wish you strength and finally Peace! mino

 

 

Great post Mino! Especially the part about not being his baby sitter and having him take responsibility to clean up his own life. Also I think that mino is right about what ever happens would have happened eventually anyway and if you are ready for which ever way it goes, get off the fence and make him get off the fence also.

 

SG......I know our backgrounds are a little bit similar in that I have an abusive man in my past life also, so I wonder about myself, but I wonder about you to. Do you think that part of you wants to be rescuer? Do you think that has anything to do with the dynamic of you and mm?

Just food for thought.

 

Ya know I'm rooting for you and sending you big hugs.......

[Silly_Girl]

I hope for your sake this ends soon. I don't feel it is your right to tell his wife he is cheating on her and wants out. I think if you have to hand hold him or take over that job of 'being an adult', then you have a lifetime of doing all the decision making ahead of you. That is not the kind of role model you want for your son, IMHO.

 

Does your son know of the affair?

 

When does he get back from vacation with his wife?

 

My son knows MM in a relatively casual way, and that if MM doesn't take a job in our neck of the woods then MM won't be around any more because it's too much hard work dating with that distance. is what I've told him...

 

MM is due back this week then immediately away again and we were expecting to meet up Sunday, however that depended on him having The Talk, so I just don't know.

 

Fooled, are you of the opinion that if he doesn't tell his wife himself then she should stay in the dark?

[Silly_Girl]

I've done lots of thinking. Lots. Took my son camping this weekend and once I had woken at daybreak (thanks less to the cock crowing in the next field than the portly guy snoring in the next tent!) I couldn't stop my wee mind from whirring away.

 

Glad you had a good time and had some mom/son bonding!!

 

I was thinking, that possibly my taking this action puts him in a position of power over me (I don't like that concept). Because he hasn't actively and positively chosen me - so that puts me on the back foot, perhaps?

 

I do feel I am not happy giving MM's wife the power to decide what happens in MY life. Interestingly that very statement is something I have said to MM in the past, when we've been making (trying to make) plans, and yet here I am doing it in a bigger (nastier, messier) way. Don't like it.

 

Not withstanding the above, if I told her and was hoping for her to throw MM out (for example, not saying that's what I want), as has been pointed out I would need to ensure MM knew what was on the horizon, so he can deal with it in a positive (?) manner i.e. use it as an opportunity to make the break from the marriage. So that leaves me discussing with him how she may react, what he may have to do etc etc <yawn>. If he's prepared to deal with that fall-out then he damn well should be the one to tell her himself (minimise the impact on her in that way and reduce my visibility). So that's just another argument against my telling her. I do want her to know, whether I remain on the scene or not. As much as, in my mind, she owns a good deal of the blame in their situation, I don't condone her being lied to and her not understanding the boundaries of her marriage. We should all know what goes on in our own relationships. If we don't like it, we can take action.

 

Okay.... so his wife is to blame for the state of their marriage? Where have his balls been (sorry to be crude). Why did he take her back? Why has he accepted "no sex" (as he claims). Once again, I have to wonder if ALL you have heard from his is the TRUTH or just more of the need for you to be sympathetic for him, having his loveless, sexless marriage to a woman who cheated on him, etc. I know, I know -- he has always told you the truth -- THE TRUTH. Again, that is his truth. Do you think you would be with him if he told you he was having regular sex with his wife?

 

He had no reason whatsoever to lie to me the way we met. No reason at all. No fester interest, no likelihood of anything coming from it. My experiences with him, the months of talking round in circles, his pain and embarrassment. I know that the concept of him lying makes the whole scenario much easier for those on the outside to understand, I really do!

 

Doesn't he own as much blame as her? I mean, he chose to accept her back after cheating. He chose to continue this 'sexless' marriage. And then he chose to cheat on her. Just because, if it is true, that they have a sexless marriage, he does have other options besides cheating...counseling, separation, etc.

 

His marriage was his first serious relationship. It is in part because he DIDN'T stand up and question things when he should have done that it means he has no experience of that approach to life, and feels he has little right to take action now after having accepted those terms for so long. Again, probably difficult for someone detached to understand.

 

In terms of my feeling an urgency. I guess I do, or certainly did when I originally posted. They have a significant wedding anniversary in a few weeks, then Christmas, then her birthday then his 40th. MM wanted me to give him a few more weeks but I knew (know) because of how she's hanging on these days she will be pushing him to sign up for all sorts of stuff over the next few months. And, if he hasn't been honest about me, he has no reason to say No. And then we're all back on the merry-go-round yet again.

 

I feel like you are giving everyone your power. YOU have the power to wait or to continue waiting. Sure, you guys can sit down and 'decide' all these timelines, but what happens when they are broken? What happens if he just can't tell her? And that is what is so strange to me --- if the marriage is loveless and sexless, then why is unable to tell his wife it is over??

 

I have the power to wait or go, but not to move things on which is evidently what I'm struggling with on many levels.

 

Plus, when I got my life back from the devil-ex I felt like the luckiest person alive. Every day was a gift. I wasted 8 years on that pig, back then I wanted more children, and he said he would be up for that, then wouldn't, then would etc etc. I do still want the chance to have a family, or to be with someone with whom my son can have a bond before he's off to uni and flown the nest. I regretted so much believing my ex that he was going to change, the promises and the lies. If I had not experienced this then perhaps my er... 'desperation level' would be lower, but I don't want to throw years away on someone else who doesn't deserve it. I am a good partner, in many ways, and I deserve better. I feel strangely serene right now, I feel totally certain in my deepest heart that things will work out, that MM and I will find our way through. But - there is a rational side that's looking out for me and wanting me to have some reassurance that this is worth hanging around for. And I don't feel I have that right now.

 

Every promise MM has ever made me, he's kept. Except the ones about telling his wife... There must be a limit on time, or on chances.

 

Um...Silly, that is a pretty big one, don't you think?

 

Abso-bloody-lutely. Hence all this effort to try and work out what I should do for the best, if anything.

 

There only has to be a time limit if you want to stop being an OW. You could be like some who are just as happy to continue to be the hidden secret. You could just 'enjoy the time you have' ... for year. But something tells me, that isn't you. You don't want to continue to put your romantic life on hold, you don't want to continue to only see him at scheduled intervals. You want the whole package -- morning, noon and night.

 

Indeed I do.

 

FoG, your Dear Jane idea. I NEVER thought that would be something I could ever condone. But in this case I think of it as a real possibility. I have also suggested to him that he send an initial email to her; telling her in one or two sentences what he needs to talk to her about when he's home that night, for example, so that THE deed is done, and it's a question of moving on from there. But they don't email, they barely text and he seemed to think it would be no easier if, at the end of the day, he still needs to face her.

 

Tell his wife via text or email he wants a divorce? That is a coward. Sorry, but really? Why is he so scared of her? Where is his spine? He must not be THAT miserable if he can't tell her its over. I don't mean to be snotty, but I just don't get that.

 

When she is upset it is because of HIM. She withdraws, there is tension and dramatic silence. It is clear she is in deep pain. She will not engage with him. This is a pattern built up over many years and I am giving the tiniest snapshot. She does not listen when he speaks, and barely looks him in the eye. She talks over him and disregards or belittles his views. My MM is NOT a shouter or bawler, not by a long shot. It is immensely difficult and painful for him to be in that situation. Plus the fact she has already vividly and forcefully set the scene of how abandoned and unhappy she would be, how very unfair of him and she after being such a good wife for all these years she simply does not deserve this and he should not consider leaving her.

 

I wish MM had gumption to do this but just because he doesn't right now doesn't mean he's lying to me or himself when he says it's me he wants to be with.

 

 

We are all here on earth for x amount of years. Why would anyone want to continue to live unhappily ... ESPECIALLY if they have someone on the sidelines they claim to love so much. I am NOT doubting your feelings or his, but he sounds like a coward to me.

 

I need to find out first whether anything has changed in respect of his intentions. I then need to find out when he intends to tell her, and if there is nothing concrete forthcoming I need to consider

1) a period of space so I can get my 'house in order' and deal with the many balls I have in the air, and ask him to consider IC in the meantime

2) telling him I will tell her myself. If I threaten that I have to be prepared to carry it out.

 

In the case of 2) it would either then lead to full-on NC (which I must throw myself in to), or him extricating himself from the house and marriage with almost immediate effect. Assuming the latter, I don't see there being a middle ground with him staying there in the week until he can change his job of ten years. I think that would be messy as hell, for all 3 concerned and would constitute a living hell for MM.

 

So that leads to him needing somewhere to live, and a shiny new CV - pronto. Hhmmmm.

 

huh? I am confused. Why does he need to quit his job he has had for 10 years? Why does he need a new resume? Do they work together?

 

We do not live close to one another so he would need to move towns and jobs.

 

Reading the above back, it's getting almost to the point where NC would be a rest!!!

 

I definitely need something, from him. I'm sure of that. I have been flexible and supportive and understanding. So even if there's not a massive change in our circumstances tomorrow or the next day, I need a plan of some sort. And I guess if MM can't offer me that, after everything, then I need to accept that this IS the best on offer and get out.

 

Thanks chaps and chapesses. Am very grateful.

.........

[Silly_Girl]

hi Silly Girl, I say throw your cards on the table ! I mean what do you have to lose? i think the w has the right to know, and he surely hasn't had the balls to tell her himself. you ask yourself "why" he just freezes up when it comes to telling? Its a combo of fear and also for him, his situation is not sooo bad, he has a wife and he has you. Its the lesser of the the two evil, and its easier to remain in status que. Its selfishness on his part. Dont waste any more years in this triangle ! Accept whatever happens would have happened anyway. I played my mm game for years, listened to tons of excuses, heard many "soons" and watched many deadlines come and go. In the meantime they celebrated every holiday today while I was alone. christmas is only months away......take control of your life again!!! Dont be the bench sitter, Dont baby him, he needs to take some kind of responsiblity too. Change the rules of this A! Trust me, after almost 6 years, I would have changed many things early on and not have suffered years if I would have know then what I know now.. i wish you strength and finally Peace! mino

 

Thanks Mino. Appreciated. I don't want to have another Christmas Day where he has to sneak off and call me. Don't want that for anyone. I think that if I have to face the end (REALLY don't want that) it will be easier if I have thought it through, made a decision, taken control and been master of my own destiny.

[Silly_Girl]

Great post Mino! Especially the part about not being his baby sitter and having him take responsibility to clean up his own life. Also I think that mino is right about what ever happens would have happened eventually anyway and if you are ready for which ever way it goes, get off the fence and make him get off the fence also.

 

SG......I know our backgrounds are a little bit similar in that I have an abusive man in my past life also, so I wonder about myself, but I wonder about you to. Do you think that part of you wants to be rescuer? Do you think that has anything to do with the dynamic of you and mm?

Just food for thought.

 

Ya know I'm rooting for you and sending you big hugs.......

 

I wondered that and have posted along those lines before BB. I think it's not so much a Rescuer thing (if he were in to drugs or depressed etc I think my stance would be different) it's more that I can relate so very well to his position. Years in a relationship that any 'normal' person would leave. To even try and justify staying sounds crazy. Yet making the break seems so so tough, and you sit and wait, hoping for a change. There was a significant time-lag between me finally accepting I was wasting my time with my ex-bf, and me getting out. I guess I see MM as sitting in that spot right now. It's because I can understand when we talk that I empathise and therefore are more tolerant. But that can't last for ever.

[Silly_Girl]

The thing about 'why stay if it's so AWFUL??'

 

He never says it's awful. It's fine. It's okay. It's not abusive or violent. She's a good person. They get along. It's not that bad. People live with worse. He could sit it out (an earlier quote of his).

 

Then we start REALLY talking. Way back when we were just friends, he'd never spoken to anyone about his relationship, in any depth before me. And it slowly starts to come out. That he'd rather be in the house alone than with his wife because he feels on edge around her. That his golf obsession is an escape because they can't spend too much time together without it being sour. There's so much like that (and a whole load of more personal/specific things) which just makes the picture even worse. It has taken him so long to start to see that he is not in a typical relationship, and that there are serious flaws. She's known for a while but now she's not thinking of leaving him she's attempting to sell the R to him in a big way.

 

His default state is basic denial. That's why I think IC would help. He's come a LONG way these last few months, but still has a way to go.

[silverplanets]

just some thoughts .. from different directions in no particular order ...

 

- in your first ever post here you said he'd gone on hols and not contacted you ... so he's done this before .... in response to this you went NC for a while but then when he did come back you let him back into your life, first with some boundries which appear to have then been dropped ........ so, why should he think going on holiday is a deal breaker ... it wasn't last time ...

 

- when he came back you posted on here that you were going to maintain boundries. Has that happened? From what I read it looks like the only one who has maintained boundries is him .. (for all that yadda yadda, his boundries (not telling the W) remains 100% intact))

 

- when you let him back into your life you ALREADY knew he was married and didn't appear to want/be able to break it .... so why are you angry/frustrated with him now that he is maintaining the same boundary? (and therefore considering forcing it down ..).

 

- He has no children with his W. I repeat that a zillion times. His is the easiest marriage to leave.

 

- You state that he is a conflict avoider , but only with his wife. Are you sure? What about the deposit he put down on a flat with you only not to then move in. Was that deposit just his way of avoiding telling you something you didn't want to hear.

 

- he's gone from home, to marriage ... in your own claim without thinking about it ... how does him going straight into another R (with you) make him good relationship material ... isn't it (from any angle) about time he spent some time well and truly alone to learn who he really is ...so that he CAN tell what HE thinks to people in real time ...

 

- you took a long time to leave your ex ... but you DID leave. Undestanding someone else in the same position is fair enough ... but one must also understand that not everyone is like you ... not everyone does leave ! It could be argued that it is your very understanding and assumption that he is the same which makes you vunerable to this situation continuing.

 

- you say you are very busy and it's summer hols .. (trust me I know what it's like) ... so what part of YOUR life is suffering because of the time you are giving to this drama ... and are you ok with that?

 

- you came out of one abusive R and have now got involved with a MM .... if you had a friend who had done the same what would you say to them?

 

- you say that he has now realised what a R could be like ... might it also be the other way around .. that YOU have realised what an R could be like ... but have yet to realise that he is in no position to give it to you...

 

- you say that you are confused as to why he would stay in such a marriage. I am confused as to why you've got back so involved with someone who is married .. when you were adament you didn't want to be the OW.

 

- sometimes we ARE wrong about people ... it doesn't make us bad (and doesn't necessarily make them bad) ..

 

- sometimes we give people a second (3rd,4th, 99th!) chance ... it's not right (or wrong) but it is our choice ... equally at some point we may decide not to ...

 

- vunerability is very attractive/emotionally entangling ... you don't have to be a rescuer to be sucked in to saving the helpless ...

 

- sometimes the ONLY thing we can do for poeple is to give them the number of a marriage counselling clinic ..

 

- you, as in SG .., only have one life .. for every minute you spend being an unpaid counsellor for someone else you COULD be working on yourself and your life ... what makes his drama more important than your life ...??

 

- if YOU really believe him then why not up and move you and your son to be where he is ... and if you don't want to do that then "why?" would be an interesting point to investigate ... maybe you don't want to leave your area (does he want to leave his?), maybe your not confident enough in what he says ... (again, interesting to be honest with yourself as to why ...)

 

- your posts come across as very self-aware .... how is that going to fit with someone who (on paper) has so little sense of self that they stay somewhere unhappy for all that time ...

 

- back to him not conflict avoiding with you ... again are you sure ... one could argue that he's managed to completely avoid real conflict with you (raising little things which have no impact doesn't count) .. raising real conflicts does (like telling you in advance he won't be contacting you from his hols) ... or coming up with Christmas, 40th birthdays etc etc in advance ... (one could argue its an outstnading way of avoiding the conflict of having to tell you he's not going to leave) ....

 

 

 

OK, that's it ... not sure if any of it helps ... just some thoughts in random order ...

 

Not saying dump him or don't ... just, as I said, random thoughts and observsations ...

 

Also, no doubt I've got a zillion things wrong to pls don;t take to heart or gospel .... it's more of a brain dump of thoughts than anything else ... take anything good and bin the rest :-)

 

Sorry one final one (cause I know you'll take it well) ... conflict avoiding .. how about someone not telling a MM that no D no relationship ... ???

 

be safe

Chris

[Confused4Now]

just some thoughts .. from different directions in no particular order ...

 

- in your first ever post here you said he'd gone on hols and not contacted you ... so he's done this before .... in response to this you went NC for a while but then when he did come back you let him back into your life, first with some boundries which appear to have then been dropped ........ so, why should he think going on holiday is a deal breaker ... it wasn't last time ...

 

- when he came back you posted on here that you were going to maintain boundries. Has that happened? From what I read it looks like the only one who has maintained boundries is him .. (for all that yadda yadda, his boundries (not telling the W) remains 100% intact))

 

- when you let him back into your life you ALREADY knew he was married and didn't appear to want/be able to break it .... so why are you angry/frustrated with him now that he is maintaining the same boundary? (and therefore considering forcing it down ..).

 

- He has no children with his W. I repeat that a zillion times. His is the easiest marriage to leave.

 

- You state that he is a conflict avoider , but only with his wife. Are you sure? What about the deposit he put down on a flat with you only not to then move in. Was that deposit just his way of avoiding telling you something you didn't want to hear.

 

- he's gone from home, to marriage ... in your own claim without thinking about it ... how does him going straight into another R (with you) make him good relationship material ... isn't it (from any angle) about time he spent some time well and truly alone to learn who he really is ...so that he CAN tell what HE thinks to people in real time ...

 

- you took a long time to leave your ex ... but you DID leave. Undestanding someone else in the same position is fair enough ... but one must also understand that not everyone is like you ... not everyone does leave ! It could be argued that it is your very understanding and assumption that he is the same which makes you vunerable to this situation continuing.

 

- you say you are very busy and it's summer hols .. (trust me I know what it's like) ... so what part of YOUR life is suffering because of the time you are giving to this drama ... and are you ok with that?

 

- you came out of one abusive R and have now got involved with a MM .... if you had a friend who had done the same what would you say to them?

 

- you say that he has now realised what a R could be like ... might it also be the other way around .. that YOU have realised what an R could be like ... but have yet to realise that he is in no position to give it to you...

 

- you say that you are confused as to why he would stay in such a marriage. I am confused as to why you've got back so involved with someone who is married .. when you were adament you didn't want to be the OW.

 

- sometimes we ARE wrong about people ... it doesn't make us bad (and doesn't necessarily make them bad) ..

 

- sometimes we give people a second (3rd,4th, 99th!) chance ... it's not right (or wrong) but it is our choice ... equally at some point we may decide not to ...

 

- vunerability is very attractive/emotionally entangling ... you don't have to be a rescuer to be sucked in to saving the helpless ...

 

- sometimes the ONLY thing we can do for poeple is to give them the number of a marriage counselling clinic ..

 

- you, as in SG .., only have one life .. for every minute you spend being an unpaid counsellor for someone else you COULD be working on yourself and your life ... what makes his drama more important than your life ...??

 

- if YOU really believe him then why not up and move you and your son to be where he is ... and if you don't want to do that then "why?" would be an interesting point to investigate ... maybe you don't want to leave your area (does he want to leave his?), maybe your not confident enough in what he says ... (again, interesting to be honest with yourself as to why ...)

 

- your posts come across as very self-aware .... how is that going to fit with someone who (on paper) has so little sense of self that they stay somewhere unhappy for all that time ...

 

- back to him not conflict avoiding with you ... again are you sure ... one could argue that he's managed to completely avoid real conflict with you (raising little things which have no impact doesn't count) .. raising real conflicts does (like telling you in advance he won't be contacting you from his hols) ... or coming up with Christmas, 40th birthdays etc etc in advance ... (one could argue its an outstnading way of avoiding the conflict of having to tell you he's not going to leave) ....

 

 

 

OK, that's it ... not sure if any of it helps ... just some thoughts in random order ...

 

Not saying dump him or don't ... just, as I said, random thoughts and observsations ...

 

Also, no doubt I've got a zillion things wrong to pls don;t take to heart or gospel .... it's more of a brain dump of thoughts than anything else ... take anything good and bin the rest :-)

 

Sorry one final one (cause I know you'll take it well) ... conflict avoiding .. how about someone not telling a MM that no D no relationship ... ???

 

be safe

Chris

Everything here rings true and you don't think SG has thought of every one of these things? I know I did but what did we do?....we stayed till it was time....

[silverplanets]

Everything here rings true and you don't think SG has thought of every one of these things? I know I did but what did we do?....we stayed till it was time....

 

 

Yes, I agree ... and I certainly kept throwing myself at the wall until eventually it clicked !!!

 

So I'm definately not preaching :)

 

Incidentally, on looking back my final "throw" was to bet everything (almost) on it .. I did move me and my child, across countries ... and you know what ... I got exactly the same result as always.

 

That's when the light finally really went on for me !!!

 

Be safe

Chris

 

ps: loved the sig ..

[torranceshipman]

The thing about 'why stay if it's so AWFUL??'

 

He never says it's awful. It's fine. It's okay. It's not abusive or violent. She's a good person. They get along. It's not that bad. People live with worse. He could sit it out (an earlier quote of his).

 

Then we start REALLY talking. Way back when we were just friends, he'd never spoken to anyone about his relationship, in any depth before me. And it slowly starts to come out. That he'd rather be in the house alone than with his wife because he feels on edge around her. That his golf obsession is an escape because they can't spend too much time together without it being sour. There's so much like that (and a whole load of more personal/specific things) which just makes the picture even worse. It has taken him so long to start to see that he is not in a typical relationship, and that there are serious flaws. She's known for a while but now she's not thinking of leaving him she's attempting to sell the R to him in a big way.

 

His default state is basic denial. That's why I think IC would help. He's come a LONG way these last few months, but still has a way to go.

 

But do consider...he has a massive agenda when it comes to you. He likes you. He wants to tell you stuff that will please you, what you want to hear, & what will keep you seeing him. He has a crush on you. Just bear in mind how subjective and selective that might make him in the info he chooses to communicate to you about him and his W.

[Silly_Girl]

But do consider...he has a massive agenda when it comes to you. He likes you. He wants to tell you stuff that will please you, what you want to hear, & what will keep you seeing him. He has a crush on you. Just bear in mind how subjective and selective that might make him in the info he chooses to communicate to you about him and his W.

 

Thanks TS, I do see your point but he's always been so 'nice' about her/them. He could say so much more. And often what I find out is through natural every day contact; "why did you not go along too?"; or "you're visiting your parents/siblings alone?". Etc etc. Just small daily stuff that really adds up to a bigger picture. And us discussing the relationships of others, or of mine, for example... things will crop up. He's never spent time trying to convince me of how bad the relationship is. Mostly because he's learned to accept is as satisfactory. He believed that once married, that's what you do, you stay married at all costs. He can talk rationally and show he appreciates that the world is not like that any more, but those fundamental beliefs (and associated fears) will still exist.

[2sure]

Silly Girl...I'm guessing here or I missed something, so tell me:

 

I have the impression that you and your MM have had actual conversations about the idea of you telling his wife about the affair. And that he would consider this possibly preferable to he telling her himself.

 

Am I waayyy off base here?