Doubts we never had before

[Spark1111]

I actually agree with your entire post. We should have the freedom of speech promised to us in our constitution.

 

But I think here at LS, when someone is looking for support or advice, we should demonstrate a level of sensitivity toward the OP. Too many times we see someone not even finish their threads and sometimes they even comment on how nasty this place is and they're turned off and don't actually get the help they seek.

 

If only they had PM rights from the outset at least a few of us would be able to reach out to them and say we're here any time you need us without the bashing.

 

This is an excellent point. Having PM privileges from the get go would help posters from being run off.

 

I think it would also help those seeking support from their particular peer group from being over reactive to those who post dissenting opinions.

 

They can receive all the support they want via pms.

 

They can also malign those who disagree with them if they so choose.

 

Hell, they can even complain about me, the anti-censorship, anti-alert lunatic!

[Fallen Angel]

**note** I have not read this whole thread, so forgive me if I am repeating something someone else said after page 3 or so...

 

The problem with people who give "cookie cutter advice" is that when an OPi(Original Poster, which can be anyone on any side of the triangle) explains details of their relationship which prove the situation they are actually living to be different from the cookie cutter scenario that the advisors are describing, the facts they are putting forth for consideration are called lies, and the cookie cutter advisors attempt to convince everyone reading the thread that the situation as described by the OP is not factual.

 

** Case in point ** I recently had a thread in which I explained that my sweethearts wife is fully aware of the ongoing nature of the affair between her husband and myself, and that her knowledge of the affair was confirmed by a source other than my sweetheart. I know this to be factual, but certain posters insisted that it was not so. It got to the point that i just quit responding to the thread rather than to be called a liar. *shrug*

 

Rather than dealing with the facts as presented by me (the person actually living in the affair relationship with access to all the gory details) it was stated repeatedly that I was not telling the truth. Why? Because my relationship proves the "cookie cutters" wrong. So in defence of furthering their agenda, they have to try to cast aspersions on me. I say shame on them!

 

If people were to try to meet others on this board where they are, rather than try to force them into a mold in order to further their own agenda, then LS could truly be a place of healing and support, as it was intended to be.

[NancyBotwin]

I'm a newbie here but post on other bb's. I was a bit surprised when I realized I could not PM. About 3 weeks in I found out I could PM instantly by becoming a supporting member. Three bucks I think? I'm close to my requirement so I didn't do it (but may later if I stick around just to support the site.)

 

Why would they only want one person's point of view, though? That defeats the purpose of being on a forum.

 

Anywhoo, newbie's aren't totally out of luck with the PM's. Maybe some benevolent member would even be interested enough to buy them the membership if they want to help so much.

[nadiaj2727]

I actually agree with your entire post. We should have the freedom of speech promised to us in our constitution.

 

But I think here at LS, when someone is looking for support or advice, we should demonstrate a level of sensitivity toward the OP. Too many times we see someone not even finish their threads and sometimes they even comment on how nasty this place is and they're turned off and don't actually get the help they seek.

 

If only they had PM rights from the outset at least a few of us would be able to reach out to them and say we're here any time you need us without the bashing.

 

I agree about the PM privileges.

 

I also think there are a lot of nice posts when someone is new. And a lot of mean posts in threads like this that aren't even about being sensitive and reaching out to a new person. While I guess I can understand why someone would want to report a post to protect a newbie, why someone would report a post in this thread, which is just a debate between established LSers for the most part, and was not started by a newbie, I have no idea!

[SummerSnow]

This is a support forum for OM/OW. Support doesn't always consist of a hug and heartfelt "it's going to be okay honey". My posts are usually intended to make an AP open their eyes a little wider and be prepared for the worst case scenario. Generally, I don't care about the WS when composing my replies. In my personal experience, they are akin to drug addicts, master manipulators so wrapped up in their lies that they wouldn't know the truth if they were hit over the head with it. My advice is meant to keep an AP from getting played by what usually seems to be a bull****ter WS. If the WS is actually sincere and does what they should, then my anonymous comments on a public message board shouldn't mean very much...

 

I think it's more damaging for them to come here and read fluffed up tales about high success rates involved in these types of relationships.

 

Everyone should bear in mind the real meaning of support (to solace under affictive circumstances; to assist; to encourage; to defend). Nowhere can you find any definition of support where you can say you support a person BUT disagree with what they are doing/saying. If you do disagree, you simply cannot support him/her, BUT you can try to help the person by opening their eyes to what you think is right.

 

Having said that, also bear in mind that this is a "support and discussion" forum. If you come here purely for support, then you should look elsewhere, because you will definitely get all kinds of replies here.

Edited August 21, 2010 by SummerSnow

[pureinheart]

**note** I have not read this whole thread, so forgive me if I am repeating something someone else said after page 3 or so...

 

The problem with people who give "cookie cutter advice" is that when an OPi(Original Poster, which can be anyone on any side of the triangle) explains details of their relationship which prove the situation they are actually living to be different from the cookie cutter scenario that the advisors are describing, the facts they are putting forth for consideration are called lies, and the cookie cutter advisors attempt to convince everyone reading the thread that the situation as described by the OP is not factual.

 

** Case in point ** I recently had a thread in which I explained that my sweethearts wife is fully aware of the ongoing nature of the affair between her husband and myself, and that her knowledge of the affair was confirmed by a source other than my sweetheart. I know this to be factual, but certain posters insisted that it was not so. It got to the point that i just quit responding to the thread rather than to be called a liar. *shrug*

 

Rather than dealing with the facts as presented by me (the person actually living in the affair relationship with access to all the gory details) it was stated repeatedly that I was not telling the truth. Why? Because my relationship proves the "cookie cutters" wrong. So in defence of furthering their agenda, they have to try to cast aspersions on me. I say shame on them!

 

If people were to try to meet others on this board where they are, rather than try to force them into a mold in order to further their own agenda, then LS could truly be a place of healing and support, as it was intended to be.

 

Oh come on FA, you didn't have the time to read all 5000 pages!!!!!:D:lmao:...just kidding, LS humor...yes I had some beer and wine:lmao::lmao:

[pureinheart]

**note** I have not read this whole thread, so forgive me if I am repeating something someone else said after page 3 or so...

 

The problem with people who give "cookie cutter advice" is that when an OPi(Original Poster, which can be anyone on any side of the triangle) explains details of their relationship which prove the situation they are actually living to be different from the cookie cutter scenario that the advisors are describing, the facts they are putting forth for consideration are called lies, and the cookie cutter advisors attempt to convince everyone reading the thread that the situation as described by the OP is not factual.

 

** Case in point ** I recently had a thread in which I explained that my sweethearts wife is fully aware of the ongoing nature of the affair between her husband and myself, and that her knowledge of the affair was confirmed by a source other than my sweetheart. I know this to be factual, but certain posters insisted that it was not so. It got to the point that i just quit responding to the thread rather than to be called a liar. *shrug*

 

Rather than dealing with the facts as presented by me (the person actually living in the affair relationship with access to all the gory details) it was stated repeatedly that I was not telling the truth. Why? Because my relationship proves the "cookie cutters" wrong. So in defence of furthering their agenda, they have to try to cast aspersions on me. I say shame on them!

 

If people were to try to meet others on this board where they are, rather than try to force them into a mold in order to further their own agenda, then LS could truly be a place of healing and support, as it was intended to be.

 

Ok, for real FA...well that is what we are suppost to do...meet people where they're at...having BS experience, I am not going to tell a new BS to leave that dirty, rotton, cheating, lying etc. unless she wants to...it's best to get more info from the OP and go from there...it's about following their lead, then interjecting sound, rational info/experienced based on the present facts...

 

Excellent post FA, as usual....

[OWoman]

It all comes down to respect.......respect in that you don't call someone demeaning names, respect in that you actually hear/read the story. Respect for the person writing the story, even if you don't agree with the choices and respect and kindness and empathy should be exercised when responding.

 

Absolutely! Agree with all of those points.

[Ellin]

Jennie, how is YOUR experience different from a BS's who has posters screaming at her that he is still contact with his OW; the affair isn't over; don't believe a word he says, he only has true love for her.....and blah, blah, blah....

 

It is not.

 

Or the fWS who admits he used his AP and is attacked for ....using her/or him?

 

Or the WS who feels confused and recieves every gamut of opinions from all sides of the triangle?

 

I will never understand the mind set that one person's pain if MORE JUSTIFIED than another's; that ONE SIDE deserves gentler treatment than another.

 

We all get kid gloves AND brickbats.

Spark, you're absolutely right!

 

I'm against that also.

 

I've never said it is only OW/OM who needs to be treated sympathetically. It's not about who the poster looking for help is, it's about the quality of the replies he/she gets, especially if those replies are said to be written with intention of helping, because some of them just cause hurt and are not helpful at all.

 

It doesn't matter if it's OW, BS, WS or someone else who's posting about their problem - the response IMO should always be written with the spirit of sensitivity, empathy and respect.

 

Apparently there was a thread where an affair was mentioned that happened many years before and the two people involved were happy together, but the "BS" was told in no uncertain terms he should keep the "WS" accountable, even though he didn't see any need to do that any more.. Unbelieveable..

[Ellin]

Jennie, nearly every time I post for help or advice someone will tell me I shouldn't believe MM and I simply say that I am satisfied he is not lying to me. You do the same. That could be seen as 'planting seeds of doubt'. But I appreciate the well-thought out and sincere responses I get. They're trying to help me. It's up to me to process that other stuff, or not.

And when you simply say that you're satisfied your MM is not lying to you, it would be nice if your belief was respected at that point but what sometimes happens is such a belief is then attacked repeatedly with all possible arguments unrelated to anything that is really happening being brought up to support other poster's assertion that the MM IS definitely lying.

 

This is what Jennie's thread is about.

[Ellin]

Yes, I can handle it, and so can you apparently, but I see others hurting, OPs who come in pain and now are hurting even more because they don't know any longer what to believe.

That's why everyone should be encouraged to listen to their own feelings and judgements about their situation. The answer to everyone's problem lies within that person, as they know their situation better than anyone else. Sometimes have a need to be validated and encouraged to believe in ourselves.

 

Self-doubts are destructive. And if someone who's in pain and confusion acts in some way because of the strong advice they got, and not because it is really the best thing for that particular person and that particular situation, there can be further painful consequences later on, like regrets, lack of closure etc.

I can leave an extramarital relationship being sure I was loved but that it was not meant to be, or I can leave an extramarital relationship convinced that I was fooled and never loved and lied to consistently. Some posters don't need much to be pushed from one perception to another. Imagine what the last scenario does to their self esteem compared to the first.

Absolutely! Further, they may end up convinced they were only a "sex toy", even though it wasn't even the truth and the feelings were genuine.

 

Another problem with that is - the R might have a chance of success but it requires some time and patience, but it ends badly because of the doubts planted by others (who then will be satisfied they were "right" once again).

[Ellin]

 

It's a very sad thing around here. Other viewpoints are great, but why is there this insistence by some that their view is the ONLY way? I don't get it. Then, if the original poster (and they can be an AP or a BS) doesn't take the advice, they are often called stupid or a troll.

That is what happens indeed. I recall a post where someone seemed angry/offended that OP did not act accordingly to their advice. It said something along the lines "since you didn't listen to my advice (meaning NC I suppose) whatever happens to you from now on will be your own fault"... Some big egos around here, eh.

[Ellin]

PS: As a former journalist I too have a bias:cool: and here it is:

 

I may HATE what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it in a free society.

 

I can accept, reject, turn the dial, click the remote, cancel my subscription, boycott, but will defend to the death your right to have a dissenting opinion from mine.

 

I have too often seen petty displays of power and control in governments, neighborhoods, hell the PTA:p, and relationships to ever try to silence or censor those who do not agree with my opinion, or me with theirs.

 

 

....cue "The Star-Spangled Banner" right about now....

Thank for disclosing that and I think you have been influenced by having been a journalist and I now undersnatd why you are prepared to accept any response to your questions, but I'd like to point out that giving advice on personal/emotional problems between private individuals is a completely different thing to information being published in media and completely different rules apply.

 

Rules of basic decency and "treat others how you want to be treated". Anything to do with politics should be left out.

[jennie-jennie]

That is what happens indeed. I recall a post where someone seemed angry/offended that OP did not act accordingly to their advice. It said something along the lines "since you didn't listen to my advice (meaning NC I suppose) whatever happens to you from now on will be your own fault"... Some big egos around here, eh.

 

I have even seen OW/OM pretending on the board to be following the advice of the NC majority, while PMing the truth behind the scene in PMs, that they are back with their MM. And OW/OM pretending that all is still well indeed when in reality their MP has broken up with them once again and is now back with the spouse (because they can't bear the I-told-you-so's).

 

It seems there are others than the WSs who lie to the BSs (and reformed OW) but not to the unapologetic OW. Why is this? What is it that brings forth the lies?

Edited August 21, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Tony]

I think the subject has been clarified sufficiently and enough time has lapsed for people to comment on the original post. There are a lot of sarcastic and argumentative posts in this thread...and that's why it's gonna get shut down. Many thanks for your participation.