Doubts we never had before

[jwi71]

I agree J-J with your premise - I've seen it myself (And I sure hope I didn't contribute too it much).

 

People should stick to what is given - all else is conjecture and, echoing J-J, the conjecture is wildly biased - and that goes both ways - those for and against an A.

 

Personally, I simply ignore those who behave as such - but I must allow that I may reacted to it or done so myself. Human after all.

[TOWinNYC]

Most likely the OW/OM who comes here is vulnerable and hurting, and when all the LS posters scream "This is worse than you thought" it is easy to question yourself and your perception of the situation.

 

I am a strong woman, but twice (once here and once on an OW forum) I have lost my emotional balance due to the unanimousness of the other posters on the forum. It took a while for me to put myself together again.

 

Jennie-

I agree with what you're saying.

 

It's not that you doubt YOUR LOVE for him or even HIS LOVE for you (or I could say, MY LOVE for him or HIS LOVE for me).

 

YOU know you're happy, he makes you happy, you make him happy and on the whole, life is good.

 

But sometimes the repetition is like a dripping tap (even when it’s not directed at “me” specifically).

 

The OW has no self esteem. The OW cannot possibly be loved. The MM must love the W “more” because he stayed (never mind there are a million reasons why it’s easier to stay). The MM would move mountains for you if he really wanted to leave (never mind some things take “time” to resolve). Etc etc etc. Drip, drip, drip.

 

My personal favorite was when I was told “you mean s*** to him”. Lol - good thing I’m solid in what feel for my SO, how he feels about me and what feels “true and right” for us.

 

But since NOBODY has a “perfect” life 100% of the time, if a not-so-kind response hits you at the wrong time, yeah, I think it could unbalance you a bit. And while you may not doubt the LOVE, you start....mmm, maybe "questioning"......the situation. Hence, I agree with your gas-lighting theory.

 

It’s one thing for long time LS's (who are used to the way some posters respond) to deal with that.

 

Who I REALLY feel for is the hapless first-time poster who gets jumped on and blasted (and probably never come back). And I don’t mean just here on OM/OW. I’ve seen it on the Infidelity forum as well.

[Mombot]

There seems to be a new trend on LS. Posters are posting worst possible scenarios, one after another, of what might be going on in the extramarital relationship. The OW/OM who post here are obviously in pain and do not need additional pain added to what they are already experiencing.

 

I understand that LS posters are trying to, as they see it, shed light on the affair. But just as a marriage should die of its own accord, so should an affair. Adding doubts and questioning which have no real basis in what is happening is just confusing the issue.

 

It is like Ms. Red says:

 

 

That's support. Trusting and supporting the OP in finding her own answer, instead of making her doubt her senses.

I really agree with this!

[bentnotbroken]

I read the first post. That was enough. If no one wants to be swayed or doubt their situation, whatever it is, no one and no thing can sway them. This is evidenced on all sides. AP who are good with their situation, BS who are good with their situation, those who believe affairs are always wrong and those who don't. No one has changed the minds of these posters in the least. Years worth of posts haven't changed these posters minds. Worst case scenario... not likely, for me that would mean death and I don't remember anyone being serious in their posts saying that.

 

This is just another labeling attempt. Call it judgement, bitterness, naysayers, doom and gloomers.... same ole, same ole.

[Jilly Bean]

There seems to be a new trend on LS. Posters are posting worst possible scenarios, one after another, of what might be going on in the extramarital relationship. The OW/OM who post here are obviously in pain and do not need additional pain added to what they are already experiencing.

 

I understand that LS posters are trying to, as they see it, shed light on the affair. But just as a marriage should die of its own accord, so should an affair. Adding doubts and questioning which have no real basis in what is happening is just confusing the issue.

 

So, what you're saying is that responses to OW posting about their A issues, A's that in 99% of the cases end painfully and badly for the OW, should all be positive and encouraging regardless?

 

Just because a poster may be in denial, doesn't mean the rest of the world cares to follow suit. I don't see how supporting a situation that has every probability of blowing up is helpful.

[herenow]

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry of this has already been said.

 

IMO, anyone who has doubts is responsible for that doubt. To blame someone else because of the doubt you (the general you) feel while reading here is ridiculous IMO. If there is doubt, it's because there is doubt period. If a person is confident in his or her feelings about something, nothing I can say will create doubt where there is none.

 

For example, there is always someone who is telling me I'm not happy or it's wrong for me to say I will never have an affair. They can say it a millions times and million ways, and there is no doubt that I know myself better and I am confident in how I feel.

 

Comments on an anonymous forum can't place doubt that doesn't already exist somewhere already. IMO

 

BTW, to the OP, is this thread giving you the support you came here to get? Because I see this topic re-hashed over and over and I just don't get how it helps anyone. I'm really curious, because I can talk about what I consider support all day long if it helps you. Again, JMO.

Edited August 20, 2010 by herenow

[WTFBBQ]

Ok, hey! :bunny:Raise your hand if you were ever involved in cheating and it ended happily for you and everyone involved. Any type of cheating, don't be shy. MM/OW, MW/OM, MM/MW, BF/GF, who'd I miss? You know you're out there, get those hands up!

Hummmmmm... I only see a smattering of hands raised out there.

 

Maybe all that cookie-cutter-poetically-licensed advice was right!

Who'da thunkit?

 

Oh, BTW, another thought! vBulletin and the Gods of LoveShack blessed us all with an IGNORE function. (hint, hint )

[Mombot]

I do love the sarcastic posts, but I disagree with one point. People do listen to the advice. Some of us try it, and it may or may not work in our individual situation.

[White Flower]

From what I can see, most* OPs come to LS because they are unhappy with the current status of the A. It is very rare to have someone come here and say "Hi, I'm cool with my A." Most often it seems to me that OPs are saying, "I'm not happy with being an OP and I'm trying to change something about my situation." AND most people come here seeking advice/opinions/thoughts on their situation.

 

(*Disclaimer for the rest of the thread: There are exceptions to every time I say "most" or "probably" or whatever.)

 

Hey Nadia,

 

I'm keeping your disclaimer because I want you to know I noticed it;).

 

I have many times said I was cool with my A (in the past) and when I did, not only was I met by opponents who started not only one but two other threads over in the infidelity forum with the intention of personally attacking me, but my own thread was taken down and supposedly not because it had been requested by any other poster. Ironically, my thread was pretty peaceful and I received lots of support and advice, 37 pages worth and not one bashing.

 

My overall experience here at LS has been pretty good but I agree with jennie-jennie in that there is a general sense of embellishment of the argument in the pursuit of persuasion.

 

And I've always thought Ms. Red was pretty cool.

[White Flower]

 

People also post simply to vent - because they're having a bad day - note, DAY, not R - or to celebrate, when something good happens that they'd like to share (typically those posts are derided as "gloating" by the gloom brigade though, so they've become fewer in recent times).

This is why those two gentlemen started their threads in infidelity...they felt my 'swept away' weekend was gloating and they hated that I was enjoying my love. LSers don't like it when we actually enjoy are A relationships.

 

 

Sometimes, though, OWs post here just to have someone to discuss their Rs with. It seems that in certain places - and at least some of America seems to be more so than other places from what I gather here - that As are deemed bad and OWs looked down on, so perhaps those OWs don't feel OK discussing their Rs with their friends, family or usual confidantes, and so the anonymity of an online forum provides that space for them. That doesn't necessarily equal doubt - though it almost certainly does equal fear of judgment.

 

You hit the nail on the head. We are still the last puritanical society in the Western world.

[pureinheart]

I do love the sarcastic posts, but I disagree with one point. People do listen to the advice. Some of us try it, and it may or may not work in our individual situation.

 

Me too...and yes they do listen to the advice, it just happened in another thread(s)...in this case, I don't believe it did work.

[BlackLovely]

I have to say, I for one really appreciate all opinions - even the harsh criticism. I think no matter how you slice it, having an A is wrong. Maybe the outcome can be good. Maybe the M wasn't supposed to work and you are meant to be together. Who knows. But it doesn't change the fact that having an A is not a good thing to do.

 

As an OM who is desperately trying to stick to NC and recover, my take on it is this: no, I didn't try to get into an A with a MW. It was two people that fell for each other under less-than-ideal circumstances. But we BOTH had a choice - me and her. And when the time came, we both made a choice that most folks are going to say was wrong. So while I do come here for support from other OMs and OWs that have shared my experiences, I also FULLY expect harsh criticism from those that (rightfully) respect and revere the sanctity of marriage.

While this is very diplomatic of you, I don't concur that those who don't agree with affairs, should post in OM/OW section. It is clearly stated that this is supposed to be a supportive space, for people who choose to be involved in infidelity. If people want to pass judgment and squawk about morals, it's silly to express that here. It's like a Christian Fundamentalist going to a gay bar and being disgusted at men dancing with each other.

 

I would never be the OW, but everyone has different tea bags in their cup.

[White Flower]

While this is very diplomatic of you, I don't concur that those who don't agree with affairs, should post in OM/OW section. It is clearly stated that this is supposed to be a supportive space, for people who choose to be involved in infidelity. If people want to pass judgment and squawk about morals, it's silly to express that here. It's like a Christian Fundamentalist going to a gay bar and being disgusted at men dancing with each other.

 

I would never be the OW, but everyone has different tea bags in their cup.

Hey there again. Thanks for visiting this forum and coming without judgment even though you would never be an OW. I like that about you.

[BlackLovely]

lol, weren't you the same person who posted in the LDR forum that you don't believe in long distance relationships because they're all fantasy?

 

Yes, Lisa. That's me. So what? I don't pass judgment on OW/OM, but I am entitled to my opinion when I have been in an LDR, and therefore can speak from experience. Make sense? I'm not interested in getting into an argument about what I posted before; to bring that up is just childish.

[pureinheart]

Hey Nadia,

 

I'm keeping your disclaimer because I want you to know I noticed it;).

 

I have many times said I was cool with my A (in the past) and when I did, not only was I met by opponents who started not only one but two other threads over in the infidelity forum with the intention of personally attacking me, but my own thread was taken down and supposedly not because it had been requested by any other poster. Ironically, my thread was pretty peaceful and I received lots of support and advice, 37 pages worth and not one bashing.

 

My overall experience here at LS has been pretty good but I agree with jennie-jennie in that there is a general sense of embellishment of the argument in the pursuit of persuasion.

 

And I've always thought Ms. Red was pretty cool.

 

Especially the comments that Jennie posted in the OP...very well said. Your thread was taken down? That was a good thread IMO.

 

WF, in general there is a deep hatred for OM/OW, mainly OW IMO. It is an experience that some of the BS's cannot let go of...some have tried, although (and I understand as certain bad experiences rear their ugly heads) they can be set off quite easily, and even though they are trying to be objective, the tone of hatred shines through.

 

People are people and we all make mistakes, we all intentionally/unintentionally hurt others more than we know even...What I see in general is that there is no forgiveness, understanding, etc concerning A's. To me this is sad as there are MUCH worse things going on in this world besides A's.

 

The people that I have encountered outside of LS do not have this hatred for long, they move on.

[SidLyon]

Yes, Lisa. That's me. So what? I don't pass judgment on OW/OM, but I am entitled to my opinion when I have been in an LDR, and therefore can speak from experience. Make sense? I'm not interested in getting into an argument about what I posted before; to bring that up is just childish.

 

Oh I just love the posts from those who claim other people, but never them, pass judgment!

 

Not picking on just you BL - yours is just the latest one.

 

From Sid who admits to having quite good judgment most of the time.

[pureinheart]

While this is very diplomatic of you, I don't concur that those who don't agree with affairs, should post in OM/OW section. It is clearly stated that this is supposed to be a supportive space, for people who choose to be involved in infidelity. If people want to pass judgment and squawk about morals, it's silly to express that here. It's like a Christian Fundamentalist going to a gay bar and being disgusted at men dancing with each other.

 

I would never be the OW, but everyone has different tea bags in their cup.

 

Mostly those who disagree are BS's who have been hurt and are still hurting...bad...and I fail to understand how posting in here would help their healing...it seems counter-productive...why would a person subject themselves to that type of pain, sometimes day after day...I just don't get it.

[BlackLovely]

Oh I just love the posts from those who claim other people, but never them, pass judgment!

 

Not picking on just you BL - yours is just the latest one.

 

From Sid who admits to having quite good judgment most of the time.

 

Really? It seems like you were picking on me. If that makes you feel good about yourself, more power to you!

 

If someone wants to laugh at me because of what I posted before, am I not being judged? If people are trying to call me out, I have the right to defend myself. Especially if the incorrect assumption is that I never had an LDR, so I cannot speak on them. Quite the opposite, dear.

[SidLyon]

Really? It seems like you were picking on me. If that makes you feel good about yourself, more power to you!

 

If someone wants to laugh at me because of what I posted before, am I not being judged? If people are trying to call me out, I have the right to defend myself. Especially if the incorrect assumption is that I never had an LDR, so I cannot speak on them. Quite the opposite, dear.

 

Sorry dear, I didn't even read your other thread and I certainly didn't laugh at you or your personal situation.

 

But to call someone's behaviour "childish" and then deny that is judgment??

[BlackLovely]

Sorry dear, I didn't even read your other thread and I certainly didn't laugh at you or your personal situation.

 

But to call someone's behaviour "childish" and then deny that is judgment??

 

I did not deny that I was judging LisaLee. I said that if she is making incorrect assumptions about me, I have the right to defend myself. Read it again.

 

I was referring to Lisa when I mentioned someone laughing at me.

 

Sid, are you through? I'm not interested in getting into an argument about who said what and other nonsense that is OFF TOPIC.

[SidLyon]

I did not deny that I was judging LisaLee. I said that if she is making incorrect assumptions about me, I have the right to defend myself. Read it again.

 

I was referring to Lisa when I mentioned someone laughing at me.

 

Sid, are you through? I'm not interested in getting into an argument about who said what and other nonsense that is OFF TOPIC.

 

I don't like to argue off topic with those that shout (ie use upper case).

[jennie-jennie]

So, what you're saying is that responses to OW posting about their A issues, A's that in 99% of the cases end painfully and badly for the OW, should all be positive and encouraging regardless?

 

Just because a poster may be in denial, doesn't mean the rest of the world cares to follow suit. I don't see how supporting a situation that has every probability of blowing up is helpful.

 

You have totally misunderstood the topic of the thread. May I suggest you read Snowflower's post #49 which clearly illustrates the difference between tough love responses and poetic license responses.

Edited August 20, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

BTW, to the OP, is this thread giving you the support you came here to get? Because I see this topic re-hashed over and over and I just don't get how it helps anyone. I'm really curious, because I can talk about what I consider support all day long if it helps you. Again, JMO.

 

I mostly come to LS for the discussion here. Not for support, but for discussion, since there is little support to get here to tell the truth. So yes, this thread is interesting to me because it discusses a posting style that has become more and more prevalent on LS.

 

Part of belonging to a group or in this case a forum is looking at the communication styles in my opinion. Perhaps some LS posters can get a wake-up call by this thread! Wouldn't that be great!

 

If we look at what Ms. Red said in the opening quote of the OP:

 

I have spoken in pm's w/ ppl that found hanging around this forum just brought on doubts they never had before. They found themselves questioning their relationship to an extent that caused stress and problems that didn't even exist before reading the cookie cutter responses here.

there are apparently posters being adversely affected by this poetic license posting style. Is that the posting atmosphere we want to prevail at LS? We as long time LS posters need to ask ourselves that. By bringing this phenomena into the light I am hoping to make posters think about this topic.

[jennie-jennie]

My overall experience here at LS has been pretty good but I agree with jennie-jennie in that there is a general sense of embellishment of the argument in the pursuit of persuasion.

 

See that's what I don't get. If the prognosis for the extramarital affairs is that bad, why the need for the big guns?

[bentnotbroken]

Mostly those who disagree are BS's who have been hurt and are still hurting...bad...and I fail to understand how posting in here would help their healing...it seems counter-productive...why would a person subject themselves to that type of pain, sometimes day after day...I just don't get it.

 

 

It isn't for you to understand what another person needs to heal. While it may not have been conducive to your healing(yet you are here), doesn't mean it isn't conducive to another. JJ posts all the time about NC not being the right choice for all those in an A. So why is it hard to understand that some BS don't find healing here as well? Lean not to your own understanding...right? Cause I certainly don't get how being in an A day after day isn't subjecting you to something painful?