Doubts we never had before

[donnamaybe]

You hit the nail on the head. We are still the last puritanical society in the Western world.

It's now called "puritanical" to expect honesty from those who purport to love you?

[Spark1111]

This is very true....there is much gaslighting...

 

Also, I want to add bullying. The drama gets so intense that I have put my two cents in and have been threatened/reported all sorts of stuff.

 

Spark you stated this in this thread, not pulling you out, I have just heard this many times and want to comment...

 

Yes this is an internet forum, and to hide behind that is not real. What is real is there are REAL people sitting behind the keyboards...anonymous yes, to a degree. I have gotten to know most of the LS'ers as "people". You ARE real to me, your statements are real.

 

I understand the intent by the statement IRL, although this is real life too. Words are powerful.

 

Internet or not, it is not okay to be rude, crude and socially unacceptable. Believe it or not, there are "rights" that individuals have on the internet to no be harrassed, abused verbally etc. even on the internet.

 

Because of technology and the internet, new laws have been put into place to protect internet users and it's not just identity theft. I briefly checked out the laws...

 

With the last paragraph I wanted to make the point that the internet is real and the advice given is also.

 

Sorry for the partial thead jack Jennie...I will once again go to my thead jackers anonymous meeting pronto.

 

PIH, it can be unethical and certainly unkind to abuse, harass on the internet, but how can it be prevented when it is by anonymous posters?

 

This website is under the control of its moderators. If there is a violation of TOS they will shut down a thread or suspend posting privileges.

 

Poetic license? Speculating on details given or not given that cause the OP to feel doubtful?

 

No, I do not believe this can be moderated.

 

Maybe hoped for.....

[jennie-jennie]

PIH, it can be unethical and certainly unkind to abuse, harass on the internet, but how can it be prevented when it is by anonymous posters?

 

This website is under the control of its moderators. If there is a violation of TOS they will shut down a thread or suspend posting privileges.

 

Poetic license? Speculating on details given or not given that cause the OP to feel doubtful?

 

No, I do not believe this can be moderated.

 

Maybe hoped for.....

 

Yep, Tony has deleted such posts. Poetic license posts. It can be done.

 

I told him "this poster is painting the devil on the wall", and apparently he agreed.

[Spark1111]

Yep, Tony has deleted such posts for me. Poetic license posts. It can be done.

 

I told him "this poster is painting the devil on the wall", and apparently he agreed.

 

Wow!

 

You speak to Tony to delete posts from your threads??????????????????

 

You are that affected by what an anonymous blogger posts?????

 

Why would you care so much, Jennie??????????

[Spark1111]

Yep, Tony has deleted such posts. Poetic license posts. It can be done.

 

I told him "this poster is painting the devil on the wall", and apparently he agreed.

 

You can paint any devil on my wall you may want!

 

I might not like the colors or the lines or the feeling it invokes in me, but please, please, please paint away!

 

Tony will delete posts I do not like on my thread??????????????????????????

[jennie-jennie]

You can paint any devil on my wall you may want!

 

I might not like the colors or the lines or the feeling it invokes in me, but please, please, please paint away!

 

Tony will delete posts I do not like on my thread??????????????????????????

 

If he agrees with you that they are violating TOS.

 

If it has passed you by, I do not buy into poetic license posts. Thus, I will paint no devil on your wall.

[NoIDidn't]

Wow!

 

You speak to Tony to delete posts from your threads??????????????????

 

Tony will delete posts I do not like on my thread??????????????????????????

 

Yeah, the MOD will do it only if it clearly violates the TOS. I've had it done. But the posts were truly egregious.

 

Some people just don't report it. Some do.

 

I can agree that poetic license is annoying, but its often the pot calling the kettle black as those complaining of it most often do it themselves.

 

And, like it has already been stated in this thread - sometimes its TRUE. When its true, does that make it "poetic license" just because the OP doesn't like it?

 

(This is a general statement, but if the shoe fits, we've all done it from time to time, and so on.)

[NoIDidn't]

This "poetic license" is the reason that many, including myself, don't like to start threads or share too much because it gets used against you in this way. Even when you state that things aren't the way they are making them out to be, they continue with their version of things. But I fail to see how it would make anyone doubt some things in their situation. I have never doubted that my reconciliation with my H has been real and fulfilling just because a poster disliked me (and I know who they were) and did their level best to discredit me, my H, and/or our M.

 

There have been reports of children harming themselves because of things written in blogs and forums, but I can't imagine an adult (especially one over 21) reacting in that way. But I know it happens. Jennie-jennie has reported it in her case, and over many years of posting here, I've seen others post of it too. And most were the betrayed. And they did the sensible thing of stepping back from posting until they could put things in perspective (ignore the posters that were bent on causing them emotional harm by posting made up theories about their sitch). That, and they reported the perpetrators to the MODs.

 

But this topic of doubts. I don't remember where I read it, but it when something like this:

Start with doubts and you will end with certainties. Start with certainties and you will end with doubts

 

So maybe the OP is thinking of this all wrong. Maybe they should be here to explore the doubts and not their certainties.

[jennie-jennie]

Wow!

 

You speak to Tony to delete posts from your threads??????????????????

 

You are that affected by what an anonymous blogger posts?????

 

Why would you care so much, Jennie??????????

 

There is an alert button on LS for us to report posts we consider are against TOS. I never said anything about "deleting posts from my threads", nor about "being affected by what an anonymous blogger posts" or "caring so much". Are you using poetic license now, Spark?

Edited August 20, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[NoIDidn't]

There is an alert button on LS for us to report posts we consider are against TOS. I never said anything about "deleting posts from my threads", nor about "being affected by what an anonymous blogger posts" or "caring so much". Are you using poetic license now, Spark?

 

Is there a difference between "poetic license" and "inference"?

 

One suggests that she made up details without any supporting evidence or facts. The other suggests that she used supporting evidence and facts from other posts and drew conclusions based on that.

[jennie-jennie]

Is there a difference between "poetic license" and "inference"?

 

One suggests that she made up details without any supporting evidence or facts. The other suggests that she used supporting evidence and facts from other posts and drew conclusions based on that.

 

Are you saying that we should be careful as well with what we infer from posts? It is obviously very easy to misunderstand the situation at hand.

[White Flower]

Sometimes, though, OWs post here just to have someone to discuss their Rs with. It seems that in certain places - and at least some of America seems to be more so than other places from what I gather here - that As are deemed bad and OWs looked down on, so perhaps those OWs don't feel OK discussing their Rs with their friends, family or usual confidantes, and so the anonymity of an online forum provides that space for them. That doesn't necessarily equal doubt - though it almost certainly does equal fear of judgment.

 

You hit the nail on the head. We are still the last puritanical society in the Western world.

 

It's now called "puritanical" to expect honesty from those who purport to love you?

You're missing the point donnamaybe. We were discussing societies, not personal relationships.

[Dexter Morgan]

He who is without sin, cast the first stone....

 

there are some people that would never cheat, and would never knowingly sleep with someone elses spouse.

 

so when it comes to the the sins of which we are referring, yes, I am without those sins.

[Dexter Morgan]

Also, none of us can say with certainty what they WOULD do IF they were in another person's shoes.

 

I can. the above sentence is always spoken by those who can't.

[bentnotbroken]

I can. the above sentence is always spoken by those can't who .

 

Or those who didn't or won't. It makes the assumption that those who didn't take that path..never had the oppertunity or desire...WRONG.

[White Flower]

I can. the above sentence is always spoken by those who can't.

Ah, but youth is wasted on the young.

 

I had so many opportunities to cheat in the past but I didn't because I could say the words in the above sentence.

 

I turned my nose up at every prospective MM or AP. I was M for 25 years and when our M was just irrepairable and I kicked him into another room that is when I started my A. TBH, at this point I did not consider it cheating, but many would since legally we still were.

 

But in my heart I was not. He was in another bed, I filed, and he dragged the D out.

 

Come back in about 20 years under a different username and tell us then how you landed up.

[nadiaj2727]

Hey Nadia,

 

I'm keeping your disclaimer because I want you to know I noticed it;).

 

I have many times said I was cool with my A (in the past) and when I did, not only was I met by opponents who started not only one but two other threads over in the infidelity forum with the intention of personally attacking me, but my own thread was taken down and supposedly not because it had been requested by any other poster. Ironically, my thread was pretty peaceful and I received lots of support and advice, 37 pages worth and not one bashing.

 

My overall experience here at LS has been pretty good but I agree with jennie-jennie in that there is a general sense of embellishment of the argument in the pursuit of persuasion.

 

And I've always thought Ms. Red was pretty cool.

 

I both agree and disagree with you WF... my premise is that I am against censorship. I do not think threads or posts should be taken down unless they are totally rude and nasty (including your thread... I missed that happening but I think that's a shame!). So by the same token I also think other posters have the right to take your posts to another board but IMO that makes them look silly and makes me wonder what is wrong with them that they have nothing to do but take your words and transplant them somewhere else and pick on you. That's lame!

 

My posts are always getting flagged, this one will probably get flagged, so I really don't understand the censorship rules on here but in real life and ideally on LS I think people should be allowed to say what they want, and if other people don't like it then they can ignore that person or thread or board. We are grown adults and I hope we can behave civilly or have a good ole debate or even mudsling now and then... in my opinion it is wrong to tell other people what they can and can't post.

[Spark1111]

Yeah, the MOD will do it only if it clearly violates the TOS. I've had it done. But the posts were truly egregious.

 

Some people just don't report it. Some do.

 

I can agree that poetic license is annoying, but its often the pot calling the kettle black as those complaining of it most often do it themselves.

 

And, like it has already been stated in this thread - sometimes its TRUE. When its true, does that make it "poetic license" just because the OP doesn't like it?

 

(This is a general statement, but if the shoe fits, we've all done it from time to time, and so on.)

 

Can you define truly egregious?

 

I started a thread once and did feel acutely attacked my a fOW/fBS. But I handled her and the issue in the thread.

 

She felt a strong, strong "need" to prove herself right, above and beyond the usual posting of an opinion, and after admonishing her to read some of my most previous posts, I just chose to ignore her and responded to other comments on the situation.

 

Why in the world would I invoke the mods?

 

To silence her?

[Ms. Red]

I posted what I did in a hurry. I almost didn't post it because my BF was anxious for me to jump into a game with him. But, I told him I needed a couple minutes to finish a post. I'm glad I did it.

 

What got to me was the OP of that thread had taken time away to clear her head and think. That resulted in a decision she is happy with. That was met with shock and dismay and name calling. She was called a fool, naive, second fiddle (so predictable:rolleyes:) and even a troll!

 

It just really pissed me off and I slammed out my post kinda as a warning to her and others reading that some posters (that are usually the majority) will only support the ending of a relationship. Anything less and the person the thread is about, better get their shields up and be prepared for the negative spew and dissection of anything they ever posted while a member.

 

Once on this forum, an OW that is now happy and secure in her relationship had other posters going back to when she was a noob here and quoting her and calling her a liar and that she should get her facts straight before she posted. I mean WTH? She changed her view on her relationship for pete's sake. People do that. It's part of life.

 

Some on this thread said things along the lines of, "Well, it's just a public forum. If they let this effect them so bad then I can't help how they feel. I'm just posting my opinion". I say to that, if it's so insignificant to you, that you don't think it should effect anyone, then why the hell do you waste your time posting?

 

My story was never posted as my own thread. I had no one in my RL to discuss my situation with. I found LS while searching for an outlet since I didn't have one in my RL. Well, I was smart and read a lot before joining. When I realized how OW were run through the mill, I never posted for help. I suffered alone until I finally told an Internet friend who had driven over 2000 miles to meet me. He is now my BF (best friend). I had no way of knowing how he would react when I told him. But I bit the bullet and told him and he totally supported me and I finally had an outlet for my emotions I had held inside up until then.

 

My hope is that posters will take into consideration that ppl do come here in pain and confusion and with big decisions to make. They aren't always thick skinned like I've heard is a requirement here. Posters may just look like an avatar and letters on a screen but some ppl take to heart what is posted here by those avatars and letters. *And they have the power to put doubt into ppl where it once didn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Oh, that's right. That's the whole point. Some want to implant doubt.

[White Flower]

I posted what I did in a hurry. I almost didn't post it because my BF was anxious for me to jump into a game with him. But, I told him I needed a couple minutes to finish a post. I'm glad I did it.

 

What got to me was the OP of that thread had taken time away to clear her head and think. That resulted in a decision she is happy with. That was met with shock and dismay and name calling. She was called a fool, naive, second fiddle (so predictable:rolleyes:) and even a troll!

 

It just really pissed me off and I slammed out my post kinda as a warning to her and others reading that some posters (that are usually the majority) will only support the ending of a relationship. Anything less and the person the thread is about, better get their shields up and be prepared for the negative spew and dissection of anything they ever posted while a member.

 

Once on this forum, an OW that is now happy and secure in her relationship had other posters going back to when she was a noob here and quoting her and calling her a liar and that she should get her facts straight before she posted. I mean WTH? She changed her view on her relationship for pete's sake. People do that. It's part of life.

 

Some on this thread said things along the lines of, "Well, it's just a public forum. If they let this effect them so bad then I can't help how they feel. I'm just posting my opinion". I say to that, if it's so insignificant to you, that you don't think it should effect anyone, then why the hell do you waste your time posting?

 

My story was never posted as my own thread. I had no one in my RL to discuss my situation with. I found LS while searching for an outlet since I didn't have one in my RL. Well, I was smart and read a lot before joining. When I realized how OW were run through the mill, I never posted for help. I suffered alone until I finally told an Internet friend who had driven over 2000 miles to meet me. He is now my BF (best friend). I had no way of knowing how he would react when I told him. But I bit the bullet and told him and he totally supported me and I finally had an outlet for my emotions I had held inside up until then.

 

My hope is that posters will take into consideration that ppl do come here in pain and confusion and with big decisions to make. They aren't always thick skinned like I've heard is a requirement here. Posters may just look like an avatar and letters on a screen but some ppl take to heart what is posted here by those avatars and letters. *And they have the power to put doubt into ppl where it once didn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Oh, that's right. That's the whole point. Some want to implant doubt.

I applaud your post Ms. Red.

 

And the part BBM stands out the most. It seems that those who say I'm not invested in this thread or you seem to post the most on it. Those statements bely their actions. Otherwise, why spend so much time on these boards?

[donnamaybe]

You're missing the point donnamaybe. We were discussing societies, not personal relationships.

I'm not missing any point. You were discussing societies and the fact that affairs are looked down on. The reason they are looked down on is because there is all this LYING and SNEAKING AROUND going on. It's not the sex. It's the disgusting level of deceit it takes to keep an affair going.

 

I'm all ABOUT having good sex. Hell, I had an FWB when I wasn't in relationship mode. It's not a "morality" thing. It's an honesty thing.

[Ms. Red]

 

And I've always thought Ms. Red was pretty cool.

 

Thanks. I didn't think I posted enough for anyone to remember me.

[Dexter Morgan]

Or those who didn't or won't. It makes the assumption that those who didn't take that path..never had the oppertunity or desire...WRONG.

 

well they want to believe that because they didn't have the convictions and will to no do something they knew they shouldn't, that it must be that everyone else is the same way....and not their own personal character.

[jwi71]

*And they have the power to put doubt into ppl where it once didn't exist.

 

And what is wrong with that?

Why is doubt such a problem - is it because it is the antithesis of trust? A refutation of belief?

 

Are you suggesting that an R must be 100% fully trusting at all times with nary a doubt? That alone is hard but consider the fact that this R (referring to an A) is, in reality - to an extent, founded on lies and broken trust? An A, by definition, requires betrayal. ALL A's are FOUNDED on betrayal, lies and deception. True, the OW/OM fervently believes and hopes and wishes what is said is true. Its a poisonous ruinous hope ensnaring many - failing to deliver for most.

 

That doubt has ALWAYS been there for the OP. How many times have I read "The future of my MM and I is certain - no doubt" only to hear said poster DOUBT him. Sometimes, they don't even realize it. We, LS, didn't CREATE the doubt. Merely opened the OP's eyes to it - you give us too much power.

 

Lastly, how weak is the faith in the MM/MW when a few scant postings create doubt? Its ALWAYS weak as all OM/OW know one thing for certain...they are hidden from the spouse. And that ACTION is a value judgment (all choices are) - and it almost always places the value of the OM/OW below spouse, kids, house, retirement, friends, family and all the other excuses we hear. Did we create that? Nope.

 

So...we didn't create anything. Always was there. Just waiting to be faced.

[donnamaybe]

That doubt has ALWAYS been there for the OP. How many times have I read "The future of my MM and I is certain - no doubt" only to hear said poster DOUBT him. Sometimes, they don't even realize it. We, LS, didn't CREATE the doubt. Merely opened the OP's eyes to it - you give us too much power.

 

Lastly, how weak is the faith in the MM/MW when a few scant postings create doubt? Its ALWAYS weak as all OM/OW know one thing for certain...they are hidden from the spouse. And that ACTION is a value judgment (all choices are) - and it almost always places the value of the OM/OW below spouse, kids, house, retirement, friends, family and all the other excuses we hear. Did we create that? Nope.

 

So...we didn't create anything. Always was there. Just waiting to be faced.

Exactly. Perfectly stated. What's wrong with an opposing viewpoint? If you disagree, fine. I and one of the OW posters in this thread disagree, but we are still respectful of each other. I actually like her very much and hope the best for her! But that still isn't going to make me think there is going to be a future any different than the status quo as long as things continue as they have been for all these years, and I tell her that. And she's fine with it.

 

And I still think she and I should go out and paint the town red!