You meet someone you like ...

[spiderowl]

I wondered if some guys could answer these questions for me? Ladies' insights are welcome too, of course.

 

Supposing you're out somewhere socially and you meet a woman for the first time. You like her and spend some time talking with her, say in a social setting. Of course, you haven't yet dated or anything. You are considering it though. How would you want the woman to behave towards you to show she's interested but not a total flirt? Do you look for things like affection in first meetings like this?

 

I'm wondering what is the difference between flirting madly and just being the kind of person someone wants to get to know better and would feel they could ask out. I'm assuming some mutual attraction here, it's just how should each indicate they'd like to progress?

 

Thanks!

[David.]

It's going to depend entirely on what she's like. Some women like to move fast, like flirting madly and expect the same in response. Others want to get acquainted more slowly. Either or both of them could be totally indirect, or totally direct about what they want. That's part of the fun of it.

 

The only thing I look for is some sort of encouragement. How that gets indicated is something that requires a bit of attention. And there have been times when I wasn't paying attention and missed a great chance. So it goes.

[spiderowl]

Thanks for replying David. Could you give examples of what sort of encouragement you mean? What have you seen women do to indicate that they were encouraging a man yet not being an outrageous flirt? Flirting madly wouldn't suit me, yet at the moment I tend to be a bit cool with guys I like when I'm not sure if they are interested and also because I'm quite shy. I need to know what strikes the right balance.

[David.]

Shall we pretend we've met, or are on a date, and work through an example that way?

Tell me what kind of setting you'd like to be in first, and maybe a bit of background if that helps you set the context. Just something you'd be happy with.

Edited August 23, 2010 by David.

[spiderowl]

OK, sounds fun! We met in a pub where I went to listen to an acoustic musician. You were there with your friend having a beer on a summer's evening. We exchanged a few words about how it is a good pub for live music. We've established that I visit there weekly and that you live a few miles away. You were visiting your friend who lives near to the pub and who suggested going out for a beer. (This is based on a real incident, by the way. I won't tell you how it turned out but would be interested to hear your ideas.)

Edited August 24, 2010 by spiderowl

[David.]

Well done so far, both in setting out an example, and in the initial progress with your prospective date! (e.g. me...)

 

It seems we're chatting merrily away, so I wouldn't mind being asked more personal stuff like whether I was likely to show up for the next event. I'm normally fairly reserved, and would have been pleasantly surprised that we'd had a conversation at all, but wouldn't be expecting that you'd already decided I was worth pursuing. More likely I'd be thinking you seemed nice enough, and I'd be happy to make your acquaintance. If the conversation turned to the next event, and I said I was hoping to attend, I'd be glad if you suggested meeting up again.

 

So, far, with an example like this, the opportunity to reconnect develops organically. BUt if the opportunity didn't present itself, I wouldn't be thinking you were interested.

 

Now, if you seemed like my kind of gal, I'd be hoping that there'd be some way of keeping in touch. It's rare that I'd ask outright. I'd look for other opportunities, and if I felt it was within reason, I'd give you my card or other contact details and just say feel free to get in touch. So if you were actively trying to make something happen, you might ask what I do, find that we have some indirect connection, and ask for my contact details. Something along these lines happened a few weeks ago when I met a woman who works in a sector similar to mine, and who was curious about a local market. I said I'd be happy to show her around, and voila, presented my card.

 

So that's probably the most comfortable way of proceeding, and fits the scenario. There could be other ways...

[spiderowl]

Thanks for getting back, David. It's interesting to see how you'd respond.

 

But, you made an assumption that I'd decided you were worth pursuing, whereas I was more in the stage you described of hoping to make your acquaintance. But that's not important. I was interested in finding out more.

 

Knowing me, I'd ask you about yourself (if you didn't talk non-stop as some guys do) and I'd probably find out where you usually went out, what your interests were and what you did for a living. I wouldn't know if you were attached though. The two I saw revealed pretty quickly that they were both unattached so I didn't have to wonder about that.

 

I'm obviously making assumptions too because I'd assume if a guy was interested he'd find a way of chatting. It sounds like you wouldn't, unless you are not that interested of course. I don't think we'd get anywhere because I'd never suggest meeting up. I leave that to the guy. Maybe I should reconsider this but if he's reserved, has made no attempt to get chatting and doesn't suggest any meeting, well he's obviously not interested is he?

 

It's good to hear you might give me your card, but I don't think I would ask too much about business things in a social setting. If a guy gave me his card (and someone did), I'd assume he was purely interested in a business arrangement. For example, I got talking to a very nice decorator who gave me his card. I don't think I could assume from that that he was interested in me, but it's probably safe to assume he's looking for business. I might have phoned if I needed decorating, but then again I would have kept it entirely a professional arrangement. Maybe this isn't the best way of keeping in touch but I get your point that some way of keeping in touch would be good. Honestly, I would never contact a guy first.

 

It turned out that the guy I mentioned (with friend) lived near to me. He commented that it wasn't far away. I agreed. He never suggested keeping in touch or visiting and I didn't because I had no real idea if he was interested or not. The friend was there too. They were both going on a trip to somewhere I hadn't been but was interested in. They offered to take me too. But, with two men I don't know very well? I just went quiet. They must have thought I wasn't interested then, but it didn't quite work as far as I can see.

 

So, I'm obviously not doing very well at this but neither do I feel I'm getting the right opportunities either. Would you have given up on me?

[David.]

Got it. I should make some minor revisions then.

 

I reckoned that if you wanted to see me again, or make any sort of future contact, that counts as pursuit. I don't mean it in a big way, just that you are interested enough to seek further opportunities, which might be, as you put it, just finding out more.

 

As for guys finding a way of chatting, chances are I'll have done it differently to what other guys do. Talking about work, the music, or some other topic or real interest. I'm disinclined to chitchat, and it shows, so I need to use other methods.

 

I see your point about business cards, but mine isn't a business card, it's a calling card. But more to your point, even if it were a business card, I'd think you would understand that if I'm giving it to you in the context of a social setting, it's not because I want your custom. It's because I would be happy to hear from you regardless, and am giving you my details as the considerate thing rather than asking for yours.

 

Aside from all that, the core bit of your response here is the point at which the conversation went quiet. What I would have done at that point, as the guy, would have been to look for a polite way of giving you an opportunity to express a further interest. But y'know what? I might have been unable to think of something. At which point you, if you are hoping for a further chance, may need to acknowledge that some opportunities will pass you by if you don't grab them.

 

I gather you're concerned about the possibility that he really wasn't interested, but you can't presume it, as he may have been flustered or tongue-tied himself. He might have been feeling bashful in front of his friend.

 

But take it from a guy: rejection hurts, but not as much as the kicking I give myself for not having tried!

 

So it seems to me that you want to show some interest, but not expose yourself to feelings of embarrassment. At the point the conversation went quiet, I'd have liked you to wait a few moments, then say something outright, like 'As you live so close, would you like to meet up again?' Floor him with that one... and then it'll totally be in his court, and if he's really not interested, you'll find out, and be able to curtail your hopes.

 

Personally, I'd be a damn fool if I turned that chance down!

[tman666]

I wondered if some guys could answer these questions for me? Ladies' insights are welcome too, of course.

 

Supposing you're out somewhere socially and you meet a woman for the first time. You like her and spend some time talking with her, say in a social setting. Of course, you haven't yet dated or anything. You are considering it though. How would you want the woman to behave towards you to show she's interested but not a total flirt? Do you look for things like affection in first meetings like this?

 

I'm wondering what is the difference between flirting madly and just being the kind of person someone wants to get to know better and would feel they could ask out. I'm assuming some mutual attraction here, it's just how should each indicate they'd like to progress?

 

Thanks!

 

If I was interested in a girl, and she was interested in me, I would ideally want her to flirt with me, and me only. Hahaha. I'm selfish like that.

 

I'm definitely turned off by "slutty" girls though. There are classy and subtle ways to flirt without having an entirely flirty conversation.

 

If she was too overtly affectionate and touchy-feely I would think she was either desperate or potentially slutty.

 

Above all else, be yourself.

[spiderowl]

Thanks for responses. I am finding this really helpful. I suppose I tend to meet the forward guys who do come and chat and at some point make it clear they'd like to meet. This hasn't always worked out. Nice guys tend to mention events that are coming up but don't suggest going together, so I don't go unless it's something that particularly interests me and I would have gone anyway. I never know whether there was any interest there or not. If there was, I've turned down some nice opportunities

 

So, flirting is a good thing if it's subtle and directed at the intended one only? I'll remember that. It sounds like it has to be pitched just right though or he'd assume I was a wanton woman. I don't really like the word 'slutty' as it's a bit judgemental of someone who might be a little more sexually free than others but may have a heart of gold. Men are rarely called 'sluts' in that situation and are often praised for their ... er ... scoring achievements.

 

I guess some form of chit-chat is vital or there is no contact at all. Incidentally, if a guy doesn't seem to want to chit-chat, then I'd assume he wasn't interested and that it was his way of indicating that. To be honest, if someone is shy and reserved, it's near on impossible to tell if they are interested without spending a lot of time with them. Not engaging and smiling and chatting suggests lack of interest and I wouldn't force anyone. After a brief attempt to get them talking, I'd assume they wanted to be left in peace.

 

Don't know what to make of the calling cards thing. I can't say I've really seen a calling card and wouldn't know how to distinguish one from a business card. If we had been talking socially and he'd suggested keeping in touch in a way that I knew was not connected to work, then I would have been happy to receive a calling card which is convenient because he wouldn't have to write anything out. If we hadn't talked about keeping in touch socially, then I would assume he was just networking for possible custom in the future.

 

If I liked him, then I wouldn't mind him asking for my number or email address to keep in touch. It would be best at that point if he offered his as well. I'm highly suspicious of guys who don't want to give their contact details - they're probably already in a relationship.

 

I know what you mean about not being able to think of something. What if he's just being friendly? I think both sexes have this problem, how can you tell if they are interested romantically? In the case I mentioned, if he'd suggested I join him on the trip, I would probably have accepted, but because the friend was going too that was much too complicated. I wasn't keen on the friend, although he was polite, but I would effectively have been travelling with two strange men rather than one. Not a good idea! I think he was a bit perturbed that I didn't accept or say anything but I was stuck wondering how to explain why I would be turning down their offer. Yes, I failed to make something positive out of that.

 

I was tempted to suggest we meet up for a drink some time as we are so close, but the friend was there! Also, he didn't suggest it and surely a guy would? He had the opportunity. Yes, I suppose I could have taken that risk but then he might have said yes just to be polite.

 

I have a friend who asks me jokingly whenever we meet 'when are you going to marry me then?'. I know it's an old-fashioned way of flirting. I know he's teasing and he knows I won't, so it's kind of understood that he's interested. But because of the joking I can be humourous too and it doesn't seem like I'm coldly rejecting him. I know rejection hurts, but it's so important I know that someone's genuinely interested and not just being friendly. It would make a difference to how I'd react. Yes, I might reject, but I'd be kind. I would feel freeer to take a risk and be more flirtatious myself if I knew he was interested too. I suppose it's all little steps and a question of who takes that risk of suggesting further contact.

 

It might seem obvious to a guy but I don't know what he's interested in or what he thinks I'm offering. If I invite him to visit or meet up, what would he think? I have a friend who is 10 years younger. He has been offering to accompany me to things. Does he want to be a friend or more? I don't know. If I invite him to visit or go out somewhere, will he think I'm an older woman desperate for sex with a young man? I don't want anyone to think that of me so I don't suggest anything. I tend not to take risks and flirt in case the assumption is that I'm looking for a fling with whoever is there. Present ways of doing things aren't working very well, but then I don't find myself feeling attracted very often. Also, I wish there was a way to tell if someone is interested in a genuine relationship.

Edited August 24, 2010 by spiderowl

[David.]

Lots to respond to in there Spider, but here's just a bit for now. You ask how to tell whether someone is interested, but seem unwilling to spend a lot of time on it. In my experience, there's such a thing as seeming too interested, too quickly. You're kinda struggling with the same question. One solution then, is to go slow. Take loads of time. The guy you met IRL may have been wonderful, and you culd luck out by moving quickly - but you still wouldn't know how good he was until you'd spent significant amounts of time with him.

 

Me, I'm worth the wait, and the effort. I may seem reserved, but that's because I'm not playing games or trying to hype myself.

[David.]

I was tempted to suggest we meet up for a drink some time as we are so close, but the friend was there! Also, he didn't suggest it and surely a guy would? He had the opportunity. Yes, I suppose I could have taken that risk but then he might have said yes just to be polite.

 

There are just some presumptions in here I wouldn't make. Why talk yourself out of the opportunity? If you want to talk with the guy, just be straight about it. Just imagine if you were already friends with one or both of them, and felt free to speak your mind. How would you go about it? Just be yourself!

[David.]

In the case I mentioned, if he'd suggested I join him on the trip, I would probably have accepted, but because the friend was going too that was much too complicated. I wasn't keen on the friend, although he was polite, but I would effectively have been travelling with two strange men rather than one.

 

So, be straight: what would you say if they were old friends? If I were in that position, I'd say 'Are you nuts!?', laugh it off, then say 'instead of a road trip, how about X?'

[spiderowl]

Thanks. It's true you need to spend a lot of time with someone to get a real sense of their character (and sometimes whether there is any attraction). I'm sure you must be worth the wait. I suppose I'm thinking of cases where you only meet once or occasionally bump into them. It's a painfully slow way of getting to know someone.

 

And the uncanny thing is, if you are not interested in someone you end up bumping into them everywhere. Perhaps it's some sort of weird time compression!

Edited August 24, 2010 by spiderowl

[David.]

And the uncanny thing is, if you are not interested in someone you end up bumping into them everywhere. Perhaps it's some sort of weird time compression!

 

Yeah! I kept bumping into a woman on the bus who seemed pretty interesting and worked in an art gallery. But after the 2nd time I said hello she just stopped acknowledging me. I guess I was just too uninteresting! I still see her on the bus a lot, and wonder what the heck goes on in her mind!

[David.]

I'm sure you must be worth the wait.

Is there a smiley for tooting my own horn?

[spiderowl]

Shame - some people are a bit like that, cold. Public buses are not the most romantic of places though. I find it difficult even talking to people I know on buses, knowing the whole busload could be listening in - and then there are the nutters.

 

I'm beginning to get the picture that a fairly shy man might not give any indication he's interested until we've bumped into each other a few times. Makes it less likely we'll get to know each other. Can I therefore assume that everyone who does not show an interest would really like to get to know me? (Wishful thinking here.) I acknowledge I'm not doing a good job of encouraging men and I may well be slightly more positive in the future.

 

It's all pretty difficult, this dating stuff. There's something to be said for being footloose and fancy-free. I can spend time on the internet at night without anyone questioning what I'm doing. Actually, I quite enjoy that.

[David.]

Thing about that bus-woman was that I wasn't interested in her romantically. I know some of her coworkers, and would have been happy just to make her acquaintance - as she's practically a neighbour. If she thought I was chatting her up, then it's her own presumptions and attitudes that make her a less-than-interesting person. Of course, she'll never know that, since I'm not about to mention it!

 

Can I therefore assume that everyone who does not show an interest would really like to get to know me? (Wishful thinking here.) I acknowledge I'm not doing a good job of encouraging men and I may well be slightly more positive in the future.

 

Of course you can't presume that - as you already know. But how about trying anotehr hypothetical situation? I was having fun doing that...

[spiderowl]

So was I, but I hope I'm not boring other forum users with my stories. What might be of general interest? Hmm ...

 

It would help to know the difference between a man who was just testing his player skills and one who was genuinely interested. I had a strange incident recently with someone pursuing and then, later, declaring we were only casual friends. Fortunately, we were only just friends but it was very confusing. My friends do not pursue me like that. I'm not sure whether he is disturbed or if this was some sort of game. I'm avoiding him now.

 

Also, how can one tell the difference between a shy man and one who is really not interested? Perhaps you've got some examples of the reverse situation where you liked someone but couldn't get enough of an indication to tell if it was mutual? Fair's fair ...

[David.]

So was I, but I hope I'm not boring other forum users with my stories.

Do we care? They've got 324,968 other threads to visit if they're bored!

I think I may have to make it a personal mission to draw you out of your shell!

 

I like the game where you pretend to be interested in me, and I tell you what I'd expect you to do, - or how I'd react if you did X. So anytime you want to continue...

 

Perhaps you've got some examples of the reverse situation where you liked someone but couldn't get enough of an indication to tell if it was mutual?

OK. will think about that.

Now, though, I'm yawning. (and it's not you being boring!)

Tomorrow..

Edited August 25, 2010 by David.

[David.]

Hello Spider, how are you today? I'll write more in a bit, after I've had a think.

[David.]

It would help to know the difference between a man who was just testing his player skills and one who was genuinely interested. I had a strange incident recently with someone pursuing and then, later, declaring we were only casual friends. Fortunately, we were only just friends but it was very confusing. My friends do not pursue me like that. I'm not sure whether he is disturbed or if this was some sort of game. I'm avoiding him now.

 

I'm not sure I have any player skills... so I'm not gonna try answering this one!

Also, how can one tell the difference between a shy man and one who is really not interested? Perhaps you've got some examples of the reverse situation where you liked someone but couldn't get enough of an indication to tell if it was mutual? Fair's fair ...

 

I'm not sure it's just about shy/uninterested. But maybe that's just shorthand for the bigger question of distinguishing the serious from the insincere, and so on.

 

At a guess, I'd say the uninterested ones can be weeded out toute suite by attempting to have a serious conversation. My guess is that someone who's serious will make an effort, whilst someone insincere will start to fade away at one's requests for any sort of effort.

 

And y'know what, if I was shy, or dumbstruck (which I would be in your case), I'd greatly appreciate a chance to show my interest in other ways. So, if you asked me to help with your bags, to do a little errand together, discuss some technical or other, I'd take it as a further opportunity to spend time together and maybe come up with a way of showing my interest.

 

I kinda think you could set a mini version of the Herculean Labours...!

If it wasn't too intense, I might just do it.

[spiderowl]

And y'know what, if I was shy, or dumbstruck (which I would be in your case), I'd greatly appreciate a chance to show my interest in other ways. So, if you asked me to help with your bags, to do a little errand together, discuss some technical or other, I'd take it as a further opportunity to spend time together and maybe come up with a way of showing my interest.

Ah thanks! You mean give them a test and get all my hard work done too? Sounds a good idea. I hadn't thought of that at all. Ingenius!

 

I doubt you'd be dumbstruck, that's the problem when people have no photos, reality can be disappointing.

 

Sad to report I have a tummy upset so I'm a bit subdued tonight. On top of which, I had work to do and my Kodak printer won't let me print with just the black-and-white ink full; it demands the colour one too. It didn't say this in the sales blurb!

Edited August 25, 2010 by spiderowl
afterthought

[David.]

You don't know that it's your looks I'd be dumbstruck by...

 

A test of sorts, yes, but remember - if a guy finishes the test, you're his!

So best not to put them to so much work. More like simple things that will keep them hanging around that extra little bit.

 

Warm water and early bedtime for you then - feel better tomorrow.

 

[spiderowl]

Yes, good point. Thanks for cautionary warning about asking too much. Maybe this is why I don't usually take up offers of help, possible strings and all that.

 

Warm water, are you serious? Sounds revolting. My Mum always recommends hot whisky and lemon for everything. I'm inclined to go for that, maybe with brandy instead ...