I don't have to get over it, I'm not wrong. Betrayed & Getting Divorced

[Fritz]

Originally posted by SadGuest

 

We are getting a divorce because of this. I won’t tolerate it and believe me, when I discussed it with the attorney and told him why I was seeking a divorce he told me about many other cases of divorce because of porn and its treated pretty much the same way any infidelity is treated. My husband cheated on me with porn and the cheater almost always loses big in the settlement.

 

 

Perhaps women do.. I doubt a man would win big. Depends on the area I guess. I have a hard time accepting that idea unless it was a serious porn addiction especially when many courts in this country seem to ignore affairs/infidelity when looking at a divorce.

[Savanaaa]

Hello Sad...read your post and I agree with you about feeling betrayed I dont know if divorce is the right thing seems really harsh...I do know that there is alot of people on here that will defend porn to the end...I dont think they consider the other persons feelings about it maybe because to consider the betrayed spouses feelings would mean something is wrong with porn and if they really enjoy porn that much they will view it and fight for the right to view it at any cost to the spouses feelings about it...awhile back I posted a porn thread and several people on here attacked my oppinion and how I dealt with my hubbys porn issues...its my oppinion and I have a right to it..does not mean my oppinion is right but it also does not mean theres is right either...I to have been married for over 20 years and I would like to think at this point in a marriage you have a relationship that comes with friendship,loyalty,honesty,partnership and if that part of the relationship is violated with lies and inconsideration of the spouses feelings over porn then yes its a betrayel and selfishness...to make a marriage last that long takes both people and alot of love and understanding on both parts seems to me that if one spouse is not happy with an issue? the other spouse would consider how important there porn habbits are is it worth making your spouse unhappy I would like to think they love you enough to consider your feelings about it...I hope you and your hubby can come to an understanding and that love wins out best of luck.

[jester]

Analogizing home porn use to Title VII hostile work environment law, I believe that porn consumption must cease if, in the view of a reasonable woman, her mate's porn habits are creating a hostile home environment--one rife with hostility, intimidation and gender hatred. A spouse should have the right to a porn free home environment if , in her view, her husband's porn activities substantially intefere with the quality of their marital relationship.

 

The quality/integrity of the marriage , as perceived by the injured spouse, must trump the voyeur spouse's right to jack-off to porn. Otherwise, the marriage or, more particularly, the spouse, in her view, is subordinated to her husband's arousal by pornographic images.If the wife believes, and feels, that her husband is dishonoring her, and soiling the marriage, by his porn habit, that's because he is. In this case, perception is reality, and reality is perception.

 

In marriages, perception matters.

 

This debate is not about porn, it's about love, honor and respect. Porn, in the abstract, means nothing. This debate is really about a wife's perogative to demand that her husband not disrespect her and foul their marriage by jacking-off to pictures or movies of people sucking and f**cking. It's about respect. And mutual respect is implicit in every marriage contract.

 

Look beneath the porn and into the heart of the damaged marriage. There lies the truth.

[moimeme]

If the wife believes, and feels, that her husband is dishonoring her, and soiling the marriage, by his porn habit, that's because he is. In this case, perception is reality, and reality is perception

 

What if the wife believes that the spouse prefers all other ex-partners to her and therefore questions him constantly about his 'preference' for the others, which exists only in her own mind? What if the wife is exceedingly jealous and forbids her husband from watching any movie in which a naked portion of a woman (and I mean shorts or a bathing suit) is shown because she so fears the 'competition'?

 

It is a fact that some people develop neuroses. They can have any number of causes, but the end result is irrational and unreasonable demands. In that case, must the spouse give in to every demand, no matter how unreasonable or unfair? Absolutely not. People who are so high and mighty about 'personal responsibility' need to step up in these cases and suggest that a person who exhibits exceedingly insecure behaviour needs to take responsibility for dealing with those issues, rather than demanding that a spouse comply with all her demands.

 

What if the spouse is OCD and demands that the partner wash his or her hands thirty times a day, as well? What if a spouse is phobic? A line must be drawn past which one person's irrational behaviour must be dealt with. In many of the porn cases on this board, there is no question of a spouse being ignored, nor a relationship being damaged, because of a little porn use. In these cases, it is the wives who need to resolve the issues, IMHO.

 

In other cases, we have heard stories of severely flawed marriages in which the husbands seem to have turned to porn for sexual outlet due to the extreme problems in the rest of the marriage. Again, porn is a scapegoat and a symptom and to demand that use of porn cease without offering the quid pro quo of going to counselling or working on the other issues in the marriage is patently unfair.

 

Many of us have said again and again that porn use is often symptomatic of many other problems. Again, this simplistic solution you offer is useless at best. It will not solve the problem because it is not aimed at the true cause of the problem.

 

You can speak of respect all you want, but another critical issue is fairness; and to make demands on a spouse without compromise due to one's own issues is absolutely and completely unfair and nobody should expect any other adult human to kowtow to that sort of control.

 

This debate is not about porn, it's about love, honor and respect

 

Absolutely, and that is why neither partner has a right to make non-negotiable demands of the other as though the other has neither rights nor privileges in a marriage.

[befuddled11]

SadGuest,

I just wanted to say I commend you for standing up for your beliefs, even though it's resulted in the end of your marriage.

 

In most relationships, especially prior to marriage, there are "non-negotiables" that couples need to get out on the table. Heck, people should keep this in mind when first starting to date someone. If you love animals, it wouldn't make sense to date an animal-hater. If you despise smoking, it wouldn't make much sense to date a smoker. If you value a healthy lifestyle and diet, it wouldn't make much sense to date someone whose extent of activity is picking up the remote, followed closely by knockin' back a case of beer.

 

You had every single right to make your husband aware, prior to marriage, what your views on porn were. I think a lot of women don't mention anything prior to marriage, then when the problem comes to the surface or occurs (hubby viewing porn), all hell breaks loose.

 

Your husband knew where you stood and if he foresaw that as being a problem, or a threat to his "freedom", he shouldn't have married you.

 

You have every single right to feel the way you do. It's your feelings, your marriage, your life, your divorce,your beliefs, etc.

 

 

I think some people here are painting you (and others who share your views) to be controlling and someone who didn't get your own way. I don't see it that way at all. Just like everyone, you had the right to have and express expectations of your husband/inyourmarriage.....and you did just that. It seems to me you were more than willing to work this through and try to come to some sort of resolution......by way of counselling, your offers to take part in your husband's fantasies, etc. I think you did way more than a lot of women would have. But the bottom line is, he did lie and he did betray you.

 

Frankly, I find it a little disturbing, the type of porn your hubby was into......the fact that he "got off" by viewing porn that depicted women being humiliated and mistreated. I'm sure a psychologist would have a hay-day with that one, but that's neither here nor there.

 

I have a lot of respect for strong women who give it their best to work on a problem in their marriage, and show a sense of openmindedness (your offers to try the things he was into watching)....but get to the point where they realize their own self worth and they say "enough is enough."

 

I'm sorry your marriage of 20 yrs is over, but you are the only one who has to walk in your shoes and you feel what you feel. Good luck.

[meanon]

Solemate you articulated my views on porn so eloquently in a recent thread, I hope you don't mind if I quote you:

 

Originally posted by solemate:

we see many examples where porn is invested with personal meanings that are potentially threatening to a relationship, or where porn and masturbation are used to build a separate, solo sex life that denies the connection between partners.

 

If porn is entertainment, or enhances the shared sex life, or is an occasional solo pleasure, I would not be bothered by it.

 

If porn is nostalgic longing for a past or future lover, or detracts from the shared sex life, or reduces the sexual energy available to me, then I call it a problem.

 

And let's be clear about this. The piece of paper or the DVD is usually not inherently evil or destructive. It is the reasons for its use, the way it is used, and the thoughts that are evoked that will have the moral content. But we human beings are simple creatures at times, and the tangible piece of paper will serve as the focus for energy better directed at the intangible problems.

 

Context matters. In this case the context is an agreement at the outset of the marriage which has been broken and lack of honesty from the husband. That's a betrayal in my view - whether it's sufficient to warrant divorce depends on personal judgement and overall impact on the relationship.

[befuddled11]

Originally posted by moimeme

 

You can speak of respect all you want, but another critical issue is fairness; and to make demands on a spouse without compromise due to one's own issues is absolutely and completely unfair and nobody should expect any other adult human to kowtow to that sort of control.[/i]

 

Seems to me, she DID try to compromise, more than a lot of women would have. She offered to watch porn WITH HIM (but he wasn't interested, had all kinds of excuses as to why he wasn't into that)....she offered to try some of the kinks/fetishes/play that he enjoyed viewing, but again, he had reasons as to why he wasn't interested.

 

How much more could she have compromised, short of her saying, "okay, I give up, do what you want and watch porn, even if I feel betrayed and disrespected."

 

In your opinion, please list some ways that she could have compromised, because I feel the did and don't see any other ways.

 

This debate is not about porn, it's about love, honor and respect

 

\Absolutely, and that is why neither partner has a right to make non-negotiable demands of the other as though the other has neither rights nor privileges in a marriage.

 

Okay, this I don't get.

 

What if her husband had a thing for having multiple affairs......that she has no right to have the non-negotiable demand that she not be cheated on?

 

Or what if her husband had decided to quit his job and decided he'd spend the days sitting around in a ratty t-shirt, drinking beer and watching wrestling....all day, every day, while she was out there busting her hiney to support them. If would then be wrong of her to demand that he fairly contribute to the financial stability of the marriage?

 

Let's turn this all around. What if a man and woman marry and prior to marriage, agree that until they have children one day, they'll both work and work hard, so that they can save up money for a good home, retirement, future children.............yet a couple years into the marriage, wifey decides working sucks and she quits her job for no reason other than she doesn't like working.......and she stays at home each day, watching Oprah and spending tons of money each week shopping.....to the point that her husband's income can't support her shopping habits and refusal to work...and they're nearing bankruptcy......and him losing everything (including his good credit) he's ever worked for. In a case like this, would you say it was unfair of him to have such a non-negotiable demand that either she gets a job and starts paying off their debt, and staying out of the mall, he's going to divorce her arse..............????

 

 

 

The thing is, though....it's not like her husband wasn't aware of her views on porn well before they married. He did. He accepted her beliefs and values, and made it clear to her that he would respect these and abide by them. Nobody put a gun to this skull and forced him to do so, or to marry someone whose values and likes were so different.

[Errol]

Originally posted by moimeme

If the wife believes, and feels, that her husband is dishonoring her, and soiling the marriage, by his porn habit, that's because he is. In this case, perception is reality, and reality is perception

 

What if the wife believes that the spouse prefers all other ex-partners to her and therefore questions him constantly about his 'preference' for the others, which exists only in her own mind? What if the wife is exceedingly jealous and forbids her husband from watching any movie in which a naked portion of a woman (and I mean shorts or a bathing suit) is shown because she so fears the 'competition'?

 

It is a fact that some people develop neuroses. They can have any number of causes, but the end result is irrational and unreasonable demands. In that case, must the spouse give in to every demand, no matter how unreasonable or unfair? Absolutely not. People who are so high and mighty about 'personal responsibility' need to step up in these cases and suggest that a person who exhibits exceedingly insecure behaviour needs to take responsibility for dealing with those issues, rather than demanding that a spouse comply with all her demands.

 

What if the spouse is OCD and demands that the partner wash his or her hands thirty times a day, as well? What if a spouse is phobic? A line must be drawn past which one person's irrational behaviour must be dealt with. In many of the porn cases on this board, there is no question of a spouse being ignored, nor a relationship being damaged, because of a little porn use. In these cases, it is the wives who need to resolve the issues, IMHO.

 

In other cases, we have heard stories of severely flawed marriages in which the husbands seem to have turned to porn for sexual outlet due to the extreme problems in the rest of the marriage. Again, porn is a scapegoat and a symptom and to demand that use of porn cease without offering the quid pro quo of going to counselling or working on the other issues in the marriage is patently unfair.

 

Many of us have said again and again that porn use is often symptomatic of many other problems. Again, this simplistic solution you offer is useless at best. It will not solve the problem because it is not aimed at the true cause of the problem.

 

You can speak of respect all you want, but another critical issue is fairness; and to make demands on a spouse without compromise due to one's own issues is absolutely and completely unfair and nobody should expect any other adult human to kowtow to that sort of control.

 

This debate is not about porn, it's about love, honor and respect

 

Absolutely, and that is why neither partner has a right to make non-negotiable demands of the other as though the other has neither rights nor privileges in a marriage.

 

This is presuming that all things are on an equal footing. I was raised to believe that pornography is wrong. Period. No definition of wrong needs to be applied. Whether it is from a religious or moral or ethical view, if the wife feels that porn is wrong, then it is. There is a massive void between OCD and washing hands 100 times a day, and some insecurities about seeing scantily clad women on TV, and the individual beliefs and morals that govern a persons feelings about pornography. Some people can group pornography together with a lot of other things - but many, MANY people can and do not. They are not wrong in their beliefs. To constantly hear defenders of porn say that it is the same as anything else is crazy. It is NOT the same - not to everyone and the radical porn defenders don't seem to get that. Porn is sought after. It requires effort to find it on the Internet or to go out and purchase it or order in Pay Per View. That is a LOT different than watching a movie in prime time and happening on some nudity - in which case it can be ignored, or the channel changed.

 

Whether it is porn or something else, if one goes seaching for it knowing that it will hurt their partner there is something amiss in the relationship. Porn, like having children, or what church to go to, should be discussed early in the relationship. Look at all the problems it is causing just here in LS!

 

Every partner has the right to make non-negotiable demands of the other. If the demand cannot or will not be met, then it is open for discussion and compromise or becomes a deal-breaker. I demand that my wife not have sex with anyone but me. That is non-negotiable. There are many, many other examples of non-negotiable demands made in a marriage - and most don't have to do with sex.

 

I do agree that it is about love, honor, and respect. My spouse told me years ago that porn was hurtful and shameful and 'wrong' (according to beliefs) and that if I view porn I was in effect cheating and causing pain. Out of that love and respect I stopped viewing porn. (well, until now when spouses tastes and opinions seem to have changed a lot )

 

Someone said something about wasting an erection. I can see that and have been guilty of that without realizing it. By masturbating to porn I get some self gratification, but my spouse does not. Instead of the porn in the morning and then not being in the mood that night for the spouse, I could have just waited and saved it for both of us. Whereas, if I'm reasonably sure my spouse will not be interested then I can masturbate for myself. But I still consider my spouses feelings.

 

Some men may be able to have multiple erections in a day, but many cannot. I'm one of the latter. One shot is all I got and its a day or more before I can reload.

 

As my spouse described it. Men are like single-shot rifles. Women are like machine guns with an almost endless magazine. Its up to men to time their shot to coincide with the last bullet in the last magazine!

 

You young men might think that is horrible -- but just wait until you get older and you'll see!

[moimeme]

This is presuming that all things are on an equal footing. I was raised to believe that pornography is wrong. Period. No definition of wrong needs to be applied. Whether it is from a religious or moral or ethical view, if the wife feels that porn is wrong, then it is. There is a massive void between OCD and washing hands 100 times a day, and some insecurities about seeing scantily clad women on TV, and the individual beliefs and morals that govern a persons feelings about pornography

 

That's fine when that's the case, however not every objection to porn is based on absolute views of morality. There are a plethora of reasons why people object to porn; and I was addressing some of the others.

Certainly if a person is totally opposed to porn on moral grounds, as has been said before, that needs to be a subject discussed as part of the general discussion on values that a couple needs to have before deciding to settle down together.

 

if one goes seaching for it knowing that it will hurt their partner there is something amiss in the relationship

 

People do lots of things knowing they will hurt someone else or themselves. I submit again that matters of craving/physical need can become difficult to overcome. How many spouses overeat themselves into potential early death? How many smoke or drink despite the wishes of their partners? IMHO porn is in this category of bad habit.

 

Every partner has the right to make non-negotiable demands of the other.

 

You cite a demand for fidelity as one of your examples, but this is a generally-accepted norm that is supposed to be part of all marriages. The viewing of porn is not.

 

There are many, many other examples of non-negotiable demands made in a marriage

 

Doesn't sound like much of a marriage to me. Mine certainly was not that way.

 

One shot is all I got and its a day or more before I can reload.

 

Well then yours is a precious commodity that has to be saved. Fortunately, not all men are that way constructed. Plenty of men can 'reload' several times a day - and many like to fire at least a couple of times daily. If partner isn't up to that, then what?

[moimeme]

befuddled

 

Seems to me, she DID try to compromise, more than a lot of women would have.

 

I'm discussing the issue in general terms, in response to others who are doing the same. If she thinks that porn use is enough of a deal-breaker to end an entire marriage, that's fine, but it seems to me a waste and more extreme than a reaction needs to be. However, she claims that the rules were set out ahead of time so whatever.

 

(as an aside, GAWD do I hate the stupid word 'disrespected')

 

What if her husband had a thing for having multiple affairs......that she has no right to have the non-negotiable demand that she not be cheated on?

 

Oh, for goodness' sakes. I did say that there is a condition of reasonableness. It is certainly not reasonable for someone to expect to conduct infidelity while married. Still, I suppose these days, you'd even have to ascertain that before marriage. "Dear, I expect that the fact that we're getting married means that we'll be faithful to each other - is that your understanding, too?"

 

If would then be wrong of her to demand that he fairly contribute to the financial stability of the marriage?

 

Well, it would at least be healthier for the marriage were she to attempt to discuss it with him rather than issuing demands.

 

Let's turn this all around. What if a man and woman marry and prior to marriage, agree that until they have children one day, they'll both work and work hard, so that they can save up money for a good home, retirement, future children.............yet a couple years into the marriage, wifey decides working sucks and she quits her job for no reason other than she doesn't like working.......and she stays at home each day, watching Oprah and spending tons of money each week shopping.....to the point that her husband's income can't support her shopping habits and refusal to work...and they're nearing bankruptcy......and him losing everything (including his good credit) he's ever worked for. In a case like this, would you say it was unfair of him to have such a non-negotiable demand that either she gets a job and starts paying off their debt, and staying out of the mall, he's going to divorce her arse..............????

 

Again, all I'm hearing here is 'extreme example of bad behaviour left unchecked and undiscussed until someone issues an ultimatum'. I would sincerely hope that no situation would be left to fester so long that the only solution envisionable is to issue ultimatums. This is a straw man and a source for a whole other discussion on problem-solving within marriages. None of the examples you cite are reasonable behaviour, either.

[cdn]

None of the examples you cite are reasonable behaviour, either.

 

This is your opinion. Someone else may be of the opinion that they are.

 

And still another opinion -- apparently the original poster's --is that porn use is not reasonable behaviour.

[moimeme]

This is your opinion. Someone else may be of the opinion that they are.

 

Oh really? Having multiple affairs would be reasonable? Staying home all day and not working after agreeing otherwise is reasonable? Don't know who you hang with, but folks I know wouldn't think so.

[jester]

Frankly, I find it a little disturbing, the type of porn your hubby was into......the fact that he "got off" by viewing porn that depicted women being humiliated and mistreated.

 

 

Good observation, befuddled, I missed that. That makes it even worse.

[cdn]

Actually, I can think of circumstances when these behaviours would be reasonable. If your question is whether, under "typical" conditions, *I* consider the examples you present to be reasonable, then the answer is that I do not. But what I think or even what you think does not set the standard for reasonable. It is presumptuous to be on the outside of anyone's marriage and know what is reasonable for the people who comprise that union.

 

The real point -- which is getting lost -- is that the original poster feels that her husband's porn use is not reasonable, and further, that it violates a commitment he made to her. His betrayal - as summed up by Jester in post #2 and Meanon in post #31 - is the issue. Errol (post 33) also correctly points out that relegating porn to the same status as indulging in, say, flavored coffee, is disingenuous.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by jester

Good observation, befuddled, I missed that. That makes it even worse.

 

It doesn't--He has a sexual fetish that involves pretty much degrading the partner--He didn't WANT to do that with his wife, whom he loved. Regardless of whether she wanted to involve herself, he didn't feel comfortable doing such things to someone whom he respected. It makes sense to me.

[jester]

he didn't feel comfortable doing such things to someone whom he respected. It makes sense to me.

 

And it "makes sense to me," and many others on this thread, that his wife "didn't feel comfortable" about her husband watching bondage and fetish porn. He knew that, yet he watched. He "respected" her too much to role play with her, but not enough to break his porn habit, or be honest about his porn habit. Such "respect" a wife can do without.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by jester

Such "respect" a wife can do without.

 

Evidently so.

[ConfusedSoul]

Originally posted by SadGuest

I said I didn't need any opinions nor was I asking questions. I posted my feelings only. I don't require or desire affirmations or support. Others who have posed about porn may be able to see another person with similar thoughts and feel less alone.

Divorce is harsh - but porn was a deal-breaker and my husband knew that going in to the marriage. He ignored it. We've been married almost 20 years.

 

No other major problems but this one and this is not an isolated incident. We've fought over this many times in the marriage. This last time was it.

 

I know he didn't want to hurt me. But he DID hurt me. He hurt me by lying and betraying my feelings. He put his porn use before me. That does not mean I'm jealous of the porn - it means I'm not going to tolerate his selfish behavior and his disrespect of my feelings. Now he will be free to enjoy it all he wants. He claimed he understood that.

 

 

The boundaries were that he would not view porn. Porn is a totally different issue from masturbation. He agreed to that a long time ago. Just as we agreed to be honest with each other and to not cheat on each other, and to respect each others feelings. After the fourth or fifth time he betrayed me with porn, (and yes we did go to counseling for a while) I even suggested we rent some porn movies together and view them together and experiment and play a bit. He said he was to embarassed.

 

It's been practiced for eons. I wanted to try this and we read about it, but he was too afraid because he might hurt me, even with control words and going along carefully. Since he was uncomfortable with the idea I dropped it -- out of respect for his feelings! How ironic is that! Instead of respecting my feelings he chose to deceive me knowing that would hurt me.

 

It does not matter why it makes me feel the way I do. The reason does not cancel out the feeling. My emotions are true and normal and do not need justification. It does make me feel that way and that is all that is important. No, I do not feel that I am competing against porn. That is apples and oranges. I am a real woman, with feelings and opinions and beliefs of my own. I am not some two-dimensional portrayal of sex for sex sake. There is no comparison or competition. How often? One time after promising not to is one time too many and that is all that matters. As for positive use of porn - I addressed that earlier when I said I wanted to share it with him. As for it being an addiction--maybe it is. But he will not get help and the counseling we went through earlier obviously did not help him. I won't bend on this issue. If he were addicted to cocain or some other drug and refused to stop using I would also leave him. There are some things that I will not tolerate and disrespect and betrayal in any form (porn, infidelity, putting others feelings before mine, etc.) are two of them.

 

Not in this case. The lawyer is someone I know and trust and I know exactly how much they will get. Look at some of the prior divorces in which porn was cited as the trigger or cause. If porn use was agreed upon in the marriage it would not be a factor in 'cheating' but in my case it is and the courts will see it that way.

 

No. Not a chance. We understand each other perfectly and we have communicated our feelings on this matter thoroughly.

 

I have addressed this earlier. I was willing, he was not because he felt uncomfortable about it. He thought I might be comparing his body and technique with the man on the screen. Even after I explained I would not, he still felt that way. I was fine with that and would not disrespect him this way. There is nothing wrong with it if both parties agree. But there is a LOT wrong with it if it hurts one person.

 

 

this is a forum you posted your thoughts people are going to reply and if you get mad over that owell.

 

ending your marriage over porn is stupid,lying was wrong but to end it all over porn I think their has to be more to the story. If not then its pretty sad to go and get a divorce

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by ConfusedSoul

ending your marriage over porn is stupid,lying was wrong but to end it all over porn I think their has to be more to the story. If not then its pretty sad to go and get a divorce

Divorce is not a punishment for crimes, its a concession that one no longer wishes to continue working through those crimes. Your judgement of her reasoning is irrelevant and inconsequential--she found porn use as reason enough to end her marriage. Why she came on here to talk about it is beyond me though.

[ConfusedSoul]

All I was saying is that ending a marriage over porn seems just harsh. I never said or implied in anyway divorce was a punishment. It's just pictures and if it makes someone happy to view it once in awhile then what is the harm.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by ConfusedSoul

All I was saying is that ending a marriage over porn seems just harsh.

I was trying to say that divorce is not a consequence, it's a decision.

[ConfusedSoul]

oh okay

[Errol]

Originally posted by ConfusedSoul

All I was saying is that ending a marriage over porn seems just harsh. I never said or implied in anyway divorce was a punishment. It's just pictures and if it makes someone happy to view it once in awhile then what is the harm.

 

It does not seem harsh to me. The 'harm' is that the wife was hurt repeatedly by the actions of her husband. Whether the hurt feelings came from porn, or infidelity, or watching too much sports, or whatever the issue is, it should not be brushed away or dismissed as trivial just because to someone else it is not a big deal.

 

What may hurt you may not hurt someone else - your feelings should not be considered any less valid because a group of people don't feel the same way that you do.

 

It seems like people continually post to porn threads in an effort to change the minds and feelings of those who are hurt by it. Why? The argument continues that the woman who is hurt is trying to change someone - the SO who is hurting her by his use of porn. No one should try to change someone else. The woman should understand that and accept and deal with the behavior (in this case - porn viewing). That seems pretty hypocritical to me. Are not those saying "accept it" trying to change the woman who is hurt? Why should she change her feelings? There are thousands upon thousands of people who believe that porn is wrong and it is something shameful and should not be viewed. They all have different reasons for it. They are no more wrong than those who are pro-porn or don't see a problem with it.

 

I think the original poster just wanted to reach out and let others know that the are not alone in their beliefs, no matter how slammed they get when they post their feelings on this board.

[moimeme]

It seems like people continually post to porn threads in an effort to change the minds and feelings of those who are hurt by it. Why

 

Because, Errol, some people's issues are a product of their own internal troubles and they need to do work to get over them. Would you say the same if the woman was abusive or excessively jealous or controlling? That may be 'the way she is' but it does not mean that that is the way she should be. If a person suffers from poor self-esteem to the point that she fears her husband will leave her over images on paper or a monitor, would it not be to her own benefit to learn that her fears are groundless and to learn to find her own pride in self, security, and self-esteem? Or do you think it better for her to continually dread comparison with other women in certainty that she will always come off the worse by comparison?

 

People's characters may be unchangeable; they may be honest or deceitful, loyal or not, and maybe those things are unchangeable, but there are certain behaviours and attitudes which are harmful to the individuals themselves. Rather than demand that the world adjust to their issues, those individuals need to change this changeworthy behaviour so that they may live more comfortably in the world as it is.

 

We have seen far too many tales of excessively jealous women, including one who painted over the windows of her husband's room so he couldn't look outside. This is 'the way she is' - do you honestly believe that she is not in need of therapy to get over her issues? That because she dreads her husband looking at any woman that he must live that way?

[Fedup&givingup]

To the woman who started this thread...

 

I am with you 100%. I understand where you are coming from, and I think you have a good head on your shoulders.

 

I know how you feel, because I've got the same problem with my husband, except he completely hid it from me after I asked him not to have/use pornography.

 

That IS the betrayal...when you communicate to your partner to not do something expressing how it makes you feel, and they acquiesce. Then you discover that they only tried harder in concealing it.

 

I haven't read through all the response posts in regard to your post, but what I skimmed through appeared to be mostly the men putting you down for your decision. Looks like they might feel threatened over a woman choosing to leave her husband because of this.

 

Here's what...I can and do understand that men are visual. What they fail to see is that masturbating to pornography is a form of extracirricular sex in a marriage. It DOES cause your own sex life to take a backseat.

 

Someone on here even said there is no compromise with you, that you are a hard ass or something to that effect...when it comes to asking your spouse to not do something because you find it detrimental, how can there be a compromise? How can there be compromise to something that simply takes away from the sex life in your marriage? Oh, ok, I get it..."Honey, you can only do this on Tuesdays and Thursdays." I mean, seriously, HOW can there be compromise? Some things do have to be all or nothing.

 

I back you up on divorcing your husband, because he cannot refrain from doing something that is destructive to you and your marriage. Funny thing is, if you were leaving him because he is an alcoholic or hooked on drugs, I doubt very much you would see many complaints about that. Point is, you asked him not to do it, and yet he continues. That in itself is no good. You've been married to him for 20 years, and you have condoned it...good for you for taking a stand on your grounds.