I'm the bad guy

[billswi]

So when I found this site a while back I spent a couple hours typing up my situation. It was long and complete. There was some sort of glitch with my log in and I lost it all.

 

So, here I am with a second time and a super ultra condensed version.

 

I need advice, help, ridicule, whatever you want. I fully admit I am the bad guy in this.

 

I'll explain below.

 

My wife and I married young. I married a girl way out of my leauge. Think, captain of the cheerleading squad goes for computer geek. I missed out on a lot of things young men do becasue of this, but I always thought it was OK because I have this awesome girl.

 

We then had kids young. We are 30 and have a 5 & 3 year old. This was great, I love my kids, but we have made a lot of sacrifices in things that young people normally do.

 

Now that the kids are older (not infants) and handle sitters and general life much better we get the opportunity to do things more.

 

My wife has become complacent, depressed, out of shape, not intimate, tired....and generally not fun. She is no longer this great person I married and fell in love with. I still think she is beautiful, and love her, but she is different. Not sure why, but it started with severely decresed sex before our first child and continued from there.

 

So, for me it is very difficult dealing with this. She complains about her weight, but does nothing to fix it. I told her flat out that I am fine with the way she looks, and don't complain if your not going to do anything, I even offered to help. We've talked about the sex and she says it's just one more thing she has to do....that is a real motivator for me....wow.

 

She doesn't 'like' sex, but loves teasing me, there is tons of petting and rubbing, but no actual sex....can a woman on here please tell me what that is about??? She has developed all sorts of 'rules' as to why we can't have sex, It's morning, the kids are awake, shes tired, it's too late, she already took a shower and so on and so forth.

 

She contends she is still completely in love with me, but....I don't know, maybe I've changed and don't accept that love, or I don't know....

 

Anyways....This sort of all broke down today when she kept asking what was wrong and I said I'm just generally not happy.

 

Now what do I do....this will completely devistate her.....I don't want to harm my kids emotionally, they are the brightest spot in my life...

 

There are all sorts of issues, none small or insignificant, ask questions, whatever.

 

I'm just going bonkers over this.

 

thanks.

[You Go Girl]

Your W is one of those submissive types that teases partially because she wants her man to take control, but she doesn't know that is what she wants.

So next time she teases, get behind her, give her a shoulder massage, kiss her neck, give her shivers, then take her hand and lead her to the bedroom. Don't ASK FIRST if she's willing to go. If she starts to come up with excuses, just hold onto her hand and keep walking.

 

And how is being a computer geek out of league with a cheerleader? Which one will get who farther in life? I certainly can't imagine a history of high school cheerleading as paying the bills...!

[billswi]

Unfortuneately I'm beyond wanting to try that sort of thing. I'm much more logical than that. my loss I guess.

 

Thanks for the explanation though, it does make sense in a bizzare way.

[You Go Girl]

So you're cerebral. Try another way, one that pushes your buttons. I'm simply saying don't be complacent, attack this issue BEFORE you give up. Have a heart to heart.

You sound resigned to failure. Maybe you should rethink that before it's all one huge divorce mess.

[billswi]

this has been going on for about 4 years. We've tried many things, had that heart to heart many times.

 

There are other issues, I have wanted to walk out many times, I love my kids too much and just fake happy.

 

I can't fake happy anymore....do I just become a hollow emotionless man and stick it out for another 15 years?

 

Like I said, I am the bad guy here. I've gone to other sources for things I'm not getting at home. There is no 'other girl' or 'affair' but....

 

There are financial issues as well. The towel has been thrown in mentally a long time ago. I'm more looking to see what i do regarding the kids....do I devastate the wife, what?

 

It's a sad situation, one that I promised myself I would never be in. I've broken that promise to myself.

 

If I didn't have 2 little perfect humans to think about I'd be out yesterday. Just horrible....I know.

[BetweenHere&There]

Hmm, just going to throw this out there but I think you have already answered your own question.....men can answer the lack of intimacy question if they just followed the advice that has already been posted on this thread.

 

Veni, vidi, vici....given your posts about what you have done about your lack of intimacy...I would suggest a mid-life crisis. Read up on it....and the devastation it causes to your family. In the meantime...continue down the path you are on or determine if you want to rediscover what you have already left in your mind. My suggestion is the same thing my ex told me when he walked....the grass isn't greener.

[billswi]

Yes, to some extent I have answered my own question, that was more specifically a curiousity question.

 

I really took a weird angle on this, because most of the posters here appear to be the one cheated on. This is pretty much the opposite. I was hoping not to be the focus of the rage from most of you, but more so, what i can do to move forward, or what my best options are to do....whatever.

 

Mid life crises do not happen to 25 year olds (when this started). this has been brewing since we got together and I've chosen to ignor it, to keep it inside. Much of it can be traced back to my lack of experience vs her...well lots of experience.

 

I realize the devastation all this can/will cause....but my kids mean everything to me....

 

I know I'm just rambling, and not really asking anything specific. Maybe, I'm hoping for a 'This is exactly what I was going through and I....'

 

Don't know, but thank you so far.

 

Also, there is nothing to rediscover, we've changed. It's not there anymore. I know exactly what it is....and it's gone. She wants something different than I do now.

[BetweenHere&There]

A mid-life crisis can happen at any age where a person sees their life at a standstill or a change that is too significant for their mind to comprehend actually....there is not age criteria to really meet. I've talked to therapist's who say that men go through it at 30, 40, 50 and 60...four times in their lives. Anything that triggers a person to question their value to a marriage, to life, to their work can contribute to it...no boundaries.

 

Not a weird angle really....here you will find both a hodgepodge of those who have cheated, walked away out of frustration or been abandoned....you will hear all sides...welcome to the roller coaster. Take what you can to support yourself, but let your conscience be your moral compass.

 

If she wants something different...did she tell you that explicitly or is that your own inner self telling you that?

[billswi]

It is mostly my inner self telling me that but there are lots of obvious examples.

 

And I'm not saying she changed, I'm saying we changed.

 

She is content going home at 10:00 on a weeknight when we have a sitter and go to bed. I want to have some fun. I work and work and I work at home.

 

She hates when I do anything with friends....Ironically she accused me of cheating from day one. It took me 9 years into the relationship before I realized that I may as well cheat since I take all the crap from it all the time.

 

I've tried going on surprise vacations with her, to exciting places and she still just wants to go home and to bed at 10 oclock.

 

I don't want to be 50 when I'm 30. I don't wnat to go out every night. I like being home and spending time with the kids or just watch TV, but the once or twice a month when we do get to go out, am I being that close minded? I mean I want to have fun with her! It's just not happening.

 

I hate how all this stuff I'm saying sounds so insignificant and superficial. But its the whole thing together. Every day in and out.

 

I provide for her in every way I can, more than you can imagine (not rich, just certain financial situations are very bizzare to say the least). I keep myself in very good shape, well groomed. I spend time with the kids, I make sure they know I love them.

 

I don't know why it is the way it is.....maybe I'm just an a-hole. Why shouldn't i accept the woman that loves me, but isn't anythign that I want? Is that selfish? Well, I know it is, but....

[habs53]

Well you said yourself she was out of your league. So that says to me can you do better? I hope you try to work this out because it may turn into a case of you dont know what u had till its gone.

If she was very attractive before, she can do it again. Would you like to see her with another guy? Somebody possibly better looking than yourself? If she turns on you, your done.

 

Try to save your marriage. You can do it.

[billswi]

It would kill me to see her with someone else. But in all reality, if it makes her happy, then it is for the best. For whatever reason, I am not making her happy enuugh to make me happy. She is content....that is all.

 

Can I do better? Probably not, but better in what regard. Beauty is not only physical, but the rest of it too. I am still very attracted to my wife, which makes it even more frustrating.

 

There is no 'saving' the marriage. It comes down to, do I live in the marriage for the kids sake, or end the marriage.

 

And honestly, if she turned on me and somehow managed to keep the kids from me, my life would not be worth living. That is the biggest question mark in this whole thing.

[BetweenHere&There]

It would kill me to see her with someone else. But in all reality, if it makes her happy, then it is for the best. For whatever reason, I am not making her happy enuugh to make me happy. She is content....that is all.

 

Can I do better? Probably not, but better in what regard. Beauty is not only physical, but the rest of it too. I am still very attracted to my wife, which makes it even more frustrating.

 

There is no 'saving' the marriage. It comes down to, do I live in the marriage for the kids sake, or end the marriage.

 

And honestly, if she turned on me and somehow managed to keep the kids from me, my life would not be worth living. That is the biggest question mark in this whole thing.

 

First, it's doubtful that she can stop you from seeing your children unless you have been found incompetent or physically abusive to them...even then still not a 100% thing. So, unless you have something to worry about there, I do not see that as an issue....more an excuse because I think you truly do want to work on the marriage.

 

Secondly - I read too much low self-esteem here....you are already beating yourself up over just the thought of leaving. I'm not totally convinced that you could hold up to seeing her happy with someone else or that person playing a bigger part in your children's life because that is what will typically happen. Does she deserve to be happy....sure, you all do. Is it up to you to decide that leaving her would make her happier...I think that is something you should be asking her not just deciding for yourself.

 

Third - If you want to infuse your marriage with understanding how to please your wife and pull her out of this cycle, put down the Ma*im magazine and pick up a Gl*amor or a Co*mo so you can understand the total package to pleasing her, not just in the sack but out of it too (sorry, don't want to get booted for referencing mags or get LS in trouble).

 

Fourth - Try to find some internal counseling for yourself and perhaps marriage counseling for the two of you before throwing in the towel. Once you shake the marriage up by asking for the divorce or leaving without trying to work on a resolution TOGETHER....the trust is broken.

[billswi]

Hmm, I never contimplated the new person having a bigger role in my kids life than me....that is a scary thought.

 

I know it would be extremely difficult for her to keep the kids from me 100% but just usng them as pawns because she is bitter would be bad enough.

 

Counseling is not an option. Call me close minded or scared but a counselor screwed me up pretty bad as a kid when my mom forced me to go after there divorce. I swore to never go to one again. Its a sham of an occupation (apologies to those...) talking to people in this format will be 100x more benificial.

 

I just dont ever see the marriage being 'saved' by my definition, saved means I want to be there, in the marriage 100%. I dont think that will ever be the case again.

 

I'm no longer interested in pleasing her. It's been too long, I don't read any of those magazines, nor any of the other moronic mens magazines that teach us all how to be a-holes.

 

I do see all your points, and maybe I am using the kids or whatever as an excuse, but it's not to work on the marriage, it's to be held captive by it.

[worlybear]

So when I found this site a while back I spent a couple hours typing up my situation. It was long and complete. There was some sort of glitch with my log in and I lost it all.

 

So, here I am with a second time and a super ultra condensed version.

 

I need advice, help, ridicule, whatever you want. I fully admit I am the bad guy in this.

 

I'll explain below.

 

My wife and I married young. I married a girl way out of my leauge. Think, captain of the cheerleading squad goes for computer geek. I missed out on a lot of things young men do becasue of this, but I always thought it was OK because I have this awesome girl.

 

We then had kids young. We are 30 and have a 5 & 3 year old. This was great, I love my kids, but we have made a lot of sacrifices in things that young people normally do.

 

Now that the kids are older (not infants) and handle sitters and general life much better we get the opportunity to do things more.

 

My wife has become complacent, depressed, out of shape, not intimate, tired....and generally not fun. She is no longer this great person I married and fell in love with. I still think she is beautiful, and love her, but she is different. Not sure why, but it started with severely decresed sex before our first child and continued from there.

 

So, for me it is very difficult dealing with this. She complains about her weight, but does nothing to fix it. I told her flat out that I am fine with the way she looks, and don't complain if your not going to do anything, I even offered to help. We've talked about the sex and she says it's just one more thing she has to do....that is a real motivator for me....wow.

 

She doesn't 'like' sex, but loves teasing me, there is tons of petting and rubbing, but no actual sex....can a woman on here please tell me what that is about??? She has developed all sorts of 'rules' as to why we can't have sex, It's morning, the kids are awake, shes tired, it's too late, she already took a shower and so on and so forth.

 

She contends she is still completely in love with me, but....I don't know, maybe I've changed and don't accept that love, or I don't know....

 

Anyways....This sort of all broke down today when she kept asking what was wrong and I said I'm just generally not happy.

 

Now what do I do....this will completely devistate her.....I don't want to harm my kids emotionally, they are the brightest spot in my life...

 

There are all sorts of issues, none small or insignificant, ask questions, whatever.

 

I'm just going bonkers over this.

 

thanks.

Sit down with her and TALK to her.

[billswi]

THE TALK will ber happening tomorrow probably. She is crying almost non stop.

 

Not fun.

 

Why not earlier? a stupid amount of work came in. Say what you will, but the financial position we are in work comes first. Living on the street is worse than divorce.

[You Go Girl]

Why are you even posting here if you definitely want out?

She's crying non-stop and you complain that things aren't satisfying enough for you.

I'm just going to say it. You talk about how much you give, but you sound selfish.

[billswi]

I'm extremely selfish. Never doubted that.

 

I've given so much and pushed my feelings aside. I just can;'t do that anymore.

 

I guess I con't define exactly what I'm going for here. Not really a formulated question I guess. Just vomitting of text that has been whirling around for so long. I have no firends that I can talk to, and no family I would discuss this sort of stuff with either.

 

I figure good or bad I could spew this stuff and get people responding. Success to some point....

[dgiirl]

I'm confused. It sounds like there is another woman? How long has your relationship going on?

 

If there is no other woman, then why are you the "bad" guy?

 

If you are so unhappy, I guarantee you that she is just as unhappy. You are not getting your needs met and in return I guarantee you that you are not meeting her needs either. This could possibly be why she wants to go home early while you want to be out and about. She doesnt get the same amount of pleasure as you do from those activities. That shouldnt mean you toss in the towel of your marriage. It just means you both need to wake up and start working on meeting one another's needs that is within your respective comfort zones.

 

Does your wife truly understand that divorce is on the table? Sometimes when one spouse says they are unhappy, it's hard to hear and understand that the severity of the problem equates to divorce as opposed to just complaining.

 

In a perfect world, how would your relationship be with your wife? Disregard the fact that it may or may not be attainable. Simply envision what your relationship would be in a perfect world.

 

And if there is another woman, you need to break contact. It is impossible to work on your marriage while invested in another and quite frankly it doesnt sound like you've worked at all on your marriage ever to earn your "get out of marriage" card. You owe it to your kids to try every single thing, including counseling with an open mind, before getting a divorce.

[billswi]

There is not another woman. There have been individual acts of...whatever, but no resulting relationship as I very specifically did not want that. It was physical. Doesn't make it any better, possibly worse, but...well, thats the explanation.

 

She asked today if she had to worry about divorce regarding my being unhappy. I simply said that I didn't know. She broke down in sobs and proceeded to explain how she loves me more than anything and is completely happy and I'm the best husband and father, etc, etc. So.....not sure if this is an act or what.

 

In a perfect world my marriage would be different. There would be more respect and understanding. There would be more....well, sex to put it bluntly. There would be a wanting from her for me that I don't feel. There would be self respect on her part. She doesn't like herself at all and it's killing me because if she stepped back for even a second she would see how wonderful she is and realize what she is doing to herself, but she doesn't and I can't love someone who doesn't love themselves, or at least not hate themselves. It sort of invalidates my feelings.

 

I don't want to 'earn' any sort of thing. Marriage is for life. If I got through with this I have destroyed a bond that should never be broken and I will have to live with that. And sorry, even with an open mind therapy is completely out of the question. I know...could be the last nail in the coffin, but it is what it is.

[BetweenHere&There]

There is not another woman. There have been individual acts of...whatever, but no resulting relationship as I very specifically did not want that. It was physical. Doesn't make it any better, possibly worse, but...well, thats the explanation.

 

She asked today if she had to worry about divorce regarding my being unhappy. I simply said that I didn't know. She broke down in sobs and proceeded to explain how she loves me more than anything and is completely happy and I'm the best husband and father, etc, etc. So.....not sure if this is an act or what.

 

In a perfect world my marriage would be different. There would be more respect and understanding. There would be more....well, sex to put it bluntly. There would be a wanting from her for me that I don't feel. There would be self respect on her part. She doesn't like herself at all and it's killing me because if she stepped back for even a second she would see how wonderful she is and realize what she is doing to herself, but she doesn't and I can't love someone who doesn't love themselves, or at least not hate themselves. It sort of invalidates my feelings.

 

Well if she know about the "physical things with others" that you don't want to put a name to....yeah...it would be hard to want someone after something like that. Perhaps you need to have a little more empathy with a wife who does want to love you despite the discrepancies. Is she really doing that to herself or did you help a little along the way?

I don't want to 'earn' any sort of thing. Marriage is for life. If I got through with this I have destroyed a bond that should never be broken and I will have to live with that. And sorry, even with an open mind therapy is completely out of the question. I know...could be the last nail in the coffin, but it is what it is.

 

I rarely say this unless I see a woman in a relationship suffering at the hands of her husband.....leaving is the best thing you could do for her. Not to make her happy....it will be a roller coaster for her as she rebuilds the destruction you have left behind for you and your children. I think your mind is already set...stop dragging out the inevitable....it will crush you...your children...your wife....but ultimately....all will be happy in the end right?

[billswi]

No, believe me, I did not do that too her. I'm not one of those guys that never says his wife is beautiful, or never brags about her (not in a crude way).

 

I was always stuck between a rock and a hard place with her self respect. When she started to get out of shape, I really couldn't say anything, because honestly it didn't bother me, i still thought (and still do think) she was beautiful. Yet, what I say doesn't matter and she gets upset with herself, yet does nothing to improve anything.

 

I think she is humoring herself with her proclaimed love for me. She loves who she has built me up to be in her mind. I am nor was I ever that guy. And unfortuneately for me, that guy apparantly needs no sex and can deal with a woman who is so unbelieveably self concious (sp?) that every day life is a pain.

 

You are right....maybe I just proceed with the devastation. Don't think for a second that it wont devastate me too. I will see unfold my own personal horror right before my eyes. I will have to live with that. There is no 'good way' I guess.

 

The only other option that I keep going back to is just forgetting all this, pack it all back in my mind and fake it better then I have been....until I die, probably early, like 40 or so.

 

That would be the 'you made your bed, now sleep in it' scenerio.

 

I don't know. I do appreciate all the input thus far.

[dgiirl]

There is not another woman. There have been individual acts of...whatever, but no resulting relationship as I very specifically did not want that. It was physical. Doesn't make it any better, possibly worse, but...well, thats the explanation.

 

I'm confused. Another man? You are dancing around the subject but not writing any specifics. You have cheated? Are you still cheating? How many people? It's hard for us to give advice without knowing the whole story.

 

She asked today if she had to worry about divorce regarding my being unhappy. I simply said that I didn't know. She broke down in sobs and proceeded to explain how she loves me more than anything and is completely happy and I'm the best husband and father, etc, etc. So.....not sure if this is an act or what.

 

It's not an act. It's the realization of how severe your problems are. She's also going to be in panic mode trying to be the "perfect" wife and tell you that she's completely happy and doesn't want things to change. This is pretty common with a blind spouse. It will take her a while to get past the panic stage, but once she has, then you will be able to truly asses if you meet one another needs.

 

But don't feel she is being insincere. The fact that she has let herself go and doesn't like herself is a sign that she has been very unhappy for a while. The realization that divorce is now on the table could very well be the wake up call she needs to get herself back under control (it certainly was for me). It's sad that it has to come to that, but it is very common in a lot of marriages.

 

In a perfect world my marriage would be different. There would be more respect and understanding. There would be more....well, sex to put it bluntly. There would be a wanting from her for me that I don't feel. There would be self respect on her part. She doesn't like herself at all and it's killing me because if she stepped back for even a second she would see how wonderful she is and realize what she is doing to herself, but she doesn't and I can't love someone who doesn't love themselves, or at least not hate themselves. It sort of invalidates my feelings.

 

You did the right thing by bringing the issue of divorce up. Hiding or ignoring your feelings would surely result in a divorce down the road. If you are still interested in saving your marriage, there is still a potential for things to get better. I believe your perfect world is very attainable now that the cards are on the table, now that both people know the repercussions and that divorce is at stake if neither smarten up.

 

Sadly, you've done some type of in-discretionary act that you cannot even admit here. At some point, your wife will need to know. You should also go see a doctor and get some tests done. You don't want to give your wife an std or anything worse.

 

 

I don't want to 'earn' any sort of thing. Marriage is for life.

 

You say marriage is for life but in all of your posts, it sounds like you've already made your decision to leave. Which is it? Marriage or divorce? You have to make a decision, at least for today/week/month/year?

 

I think she is humoring herself with her proclaimed love for me. She loves who she has built me up to be in her mind. I am nor was I ever that guy. And unfortuneately for me, that guy apparantly needs no sex and can deal with a woman who is so unbelieveably self concious (sp?) that every day life is a pain.

 

Can you wait a while and see how she changes now that she realizes divorce is on the table?

 

The only other option that I keep going back to is just forgetting all this, pack it all back in my mind and fake it better then I have been....until I die, probably early, like 40 or so.

 

I think that has been your mistake already. Nothing will automagically get better "in time". Address the topics when it happens. Had you told her years ago that her depression and lack of energy is causing a serious strife that will lead to divorce, you would not have cheated and she probably would have changed sooner, or at least got out of the marriage sooner. Stop wasting BOTH of your time by being the martyr. There is nothing wrong with asking what you want, but it also helps to be 100% clear on the repercussions if neglected. You wont always get your way, and not everything has the same severity, but lack of intimacy should have been addressed much earlier on and made clear that the relationship was at stake because of it.

 

Now that it is clear, are you willing to work on your marriage?

[billswi]

Very comprehensive, although you took my marriage is for life statement out of context, I went on to explain that.

 

I have been extremely careful with my indiscretions (no it's not with guys) and have gotten tested. These acts have been rare.

 

Work on my marriage? I don't know.....it sucks that I can't exuberantly say yes! I fell like I've been working on it with me, trying to make me work with it for so long that it is all but over. I know I'm wrong thinking that way, but it has just been exhausting. My wife is also extremely difficult to discuss things with. She constantly interuppts, cries, leaves or a combination of all three. Plus it seems women in general tend to read into things a lot more, which makes word selection very critical.

 

I'm not certain I want to ever confess my actions to her. If I do, and she forgives, I'll always hate myself that I did it, and know she will always see me different. If she doesn't forgive, I'll hate myself that I destroyed her. If I don't tell her, i'll hate myself for what I did to her.

 

The funniest thing about this whole thing is that I've been treated like a cheater from the very beginning, and only very recently actually done anything. It actually got to the point where I convinced myself that since I take all the crap and interigations and whatnot I may as well actually cheat so I get the 'good' parts as well. Wow....that sounds horrible.

[You Go Girl]

I'd love to try to help, but I can't with a person that is speaking out of both sides of their mouth at the same time. It makes my own head whirl around in vicious circles.

Take a stand, say you want to try to save your marriage, and we can go from there. Otherwise, there's nothing to discuss but what lawyer to hire.

[newdawn]

I agree, what a mess. Hopefully she'll get up the courage to leave you.