I'm the bad guy

[carhill]

I'll give an ultra-condensed response. You're young. Give your wife a generous settlement, co-parent in a healthy way, and move on. There are aspects of your psychology best dealt with alone. You've rejected professional help as an alternative. OK. Then be alone and work on it yourself, using that wonderful gift of intelligence which you are blessed with. It'll all work out.

[billswi]

Hopefully she'll get up the courage to leave you.

 

Truely the best thing....she'd never do that. Really sucks for her.

[theBrokenMuse]

Has she been on meds or gotten any actual treatment for her obvious depression?

[billswi]

No meds or treatment. Shes been to the doctor about things but has never been diagnosed with depression or anything. Frustrating.

[spriggig]

You want to know why your wife doesn't want sex with you? You don't crank your wife's engine, it was by ignorance but You Go Girl answered this in her first response--and gave you the solution to boot! If you continue to fail in this area for your wife, she WILL leave you, your cynical judgment of her capacity for this not withstanding. You think you know your wife? You don't know half of her.

No meds or treatment. Shes been to the doctor about things but has never been diagnosed with depression or anything. Frustrating.

Frustrating for you. Ya know why the doctors can't find anything wrong with her? She's not the problem.

 

You keep implying that you've cheated but claim there is no other woman, and no other man, but that you've "been careful with your indiscretions". Whatever you are hiding to "avoid the rage" of this board is obviously what the title of this thread is about. It can't be porn because you don't need to get tested for porn. I'm guessing "massage" parlor, but it would be a whole lot easier to give specific advice if you'd just tell us.

 

You're getting one and two sentence responses from old-timers on this board who normally go on for paragraphs. If your posts in this thread are any indication of how you normally communicate with others, I can understand why your marriage and sex life are a mess.

[Gunny376]

**WARNING** This may be long and drawn out per many of my post ~ however, I'm addressing the OP ~ and not the general board?"

 

All in all you seem like a smart and intelligent kind of guy?

 

Question? Have you've ever had a vagina, given birth, ran after, two pre-school age children all day, cleaned house, cooked breakfast, lunch and dinner?

 

10,0000+ years ago (whatever) when our ancestors females gave birth?

That automatically sent a signal throughout their entire body to begin to store fat.

 

Why? Because it was pretty much feast or famine on any given day?

 

Some days you ate ~ others? You didn't. But the woman still had to provide for her offspring ~ breast feeding and she typically did that by restoring fat.

 

Flash forward to 2010? Thin is in and fat is out? A hundred years ago? Back in tha' day before television, cable networks, the Internet, cosmetic commercials, Miss American Revlon, Mary Kay, Avon? Women that had some weight on there bones were preferred over skinny women. (This still holds true in Third World Countries)

 

The average American Woman weight is approximately?

 

164 pounds.

 

My last LTR GF weighed in around 160 ~ but she was also 5'9" and so-called 'pear shaped'

 

In other words she was height-weight proportionate ~ and yet she still had self doubt / insecurity issues about her weight?

 

Why? Because of all the BS that comes across what I refer to as the "idiot box" ~ aka TV.

 

To add insult to injury ~ the reason over 60% of the American population are overweight/obese? Is because of what they eat.

 

I know? Duh? Right? But what I'm speaking about is all of the additives, preservatives, and so-called "flavor enhancers" that food manufactures are adding to what your buying off of the grocery store shelves.

 

Get your hands on a series of books titled ~ "Eat This! ~ Not That!"

 

In so far as the sex goes?

 

Men aren't women and women aren't men. (I'm not going to even get into the whole transgendered debate)

 

But its just makes common damn sense that once a woman has a child that literally her "brain chemistry" alters from never having been a mother ~ to becoming one ~ that I need to learn how to cope and deal with the one I've got before I have another one ~ and the reason I've got the one I've got is because???????????????????????????????????

 

My last LTR GF was a school teacher. And she would literally come home each day, eat, shower, do what she needed to do and absolutely collapse on the sofa.

 

Running heard over a twenty to thirty something kids for eight hours a day is exhausting! I would literally have to wake her up off of the couch to go to bed.

 

You should separate and go into individual counseling. You? Because your way, way to preoccupied with sex. Sex is less than .01 of what a marriage is about.

 

Its a great way to start the day ~ and its a great way to end a day. But what in tha' Hell are you going to do and talk about the other 23-1/2 hours of each day? Even if your having sex each and everyday.

 

She needs to go to regain her self confidence in herself. I'm not the guy that I was 30 years ago ~ never going to be. And she's never going to be the cheerleader that she was back in the day.

 

Both of you need to identify your own self weaknesses and daily seek self improvement. Both of you need to work on becoming the best "me" that you can be and become.

 

Not just for each other? But for your own self!

 

When all said and done? Your best one good chance at having a successful marriage?

 

Is with the one that you married first and had children with. The divorce rate for first time marriages is around 45 to 50% (Of the remaining 50% only 13% report being so-called "happily married")

 

The divorce rate for second marriages is a whopping 62%!

 

For third time marriages? 72% divorce rate! :eek:

 

One of the definitions of insanity is "Attempting to do the same thing over and over all the while expecting different results"

 

Divorce your wife?

 

Yea! Sure go for it!

 

Or you can get down to business and learn that "women aren't men" and "men aren't women"

 

Learn that men and women's brains are literally hard-wired differently.

 

Learn about cross-gender communication ~ i.e when she tells you "FINE!" Your going to pay through both the nose and @zz later!

 

Learning "body-language" (which is 98% of all communication between men and women ~ and women are more intuitive to such than men)

 

I could go and on and on ~ but the bottom line is?

 

Quit being a fool and get your @zz back into school!

 

Learn damn't!

[Gunny376]

Post Note

 

No your not the so-called "Bad Guy" ~ your just the young, proud, dumb, inexperienced, un-knowledgeable, uneducated, confused, ignorant (just didn't know any better) arrogant dumb @zz I was thirty years ago!

 

Women really aren't all that complicated ~ you just need to understand them and that their wants, needs, priorities are different from that of most men.

 

You can learn a lot by just keeping your mouth shut, and listening? That's why the Good Lord gave you two ears and just one mouth.

 

Also keep in mind? Do you want to be right? Are do you want to be happy?

[HopelessinDTW]

**WARNING** This may be long and drawn out per many of my post ~ however, I'm addressing the OP ~ and not the general board?"

 

All in all you seem like a smart and intelligent kind of guy?

 

Question? Have you've ever had a vagina, given birth, ran after, two pre-school age children all day, cleaned house, cooked breakfast, lunch and dinner?

 

10,0000+ years ago (whatever) when our ancestors females gave birth?

That automatically sent a signal throughout their entire body to begin to store fat.

 

Why? Because it was pretty much feast or famine on any given day?

 

Some days you ate ~ others? You didn't. But the woman still had to provide for her offspring ~ breast feeding and she typically did that by restoring fat.

 

Flash forward to 2010? Thin is in and fat is out? A hundred years ago? Back in tha' day before television, cable networks, the Internet, cosmetic commercials, Miss American Revlon, Mary Kay, Avon? Women that had some weight on there bones were preferred over skinny women. (This still holds true in Third World Countries)

 

The average American Woman weight is approximately?

 

164 pounds.

 

My last LTR GF weighed in around 160 ~ but she was also 5'9" and so-called 'pear shaped'

 

In other words she was height-weight proportionate ~ and yet she still had self doubt / insecurity issues about her weight?

 

Why? Because of all the BS that comes across what I refer to as the "idiot box" ~ aka TV.

 

To add insult to injury ~ the reason over 60% of the American population are overweight/obese? Is because of what they eat.

 

I know? Duh? Right? But what I'm speaking about is all of the additives, preservatives, and so-called "flavor enhancers" that food manufactures are adding to what your buying off of the grocery store shelves.

 

Get your hands on a series of books titled ~ "Eat This! ~ Not That!"

 

In so far as the sex goes?

 

Men aren't women and women aren't men. (I'm not going to even get into the whole transgendered debate)

 

But its just makes common damn sense that once a woman has a child that literally her "brain chemistry" alters from never having been a mother ~ to becoming one ~ that I need to learn how to cope and deal with the one I've got before I have another one ~ and the reason I've got the one I've got is because???????????????????????????????????

 

My last LTR GF was a school teacher. And she would literally come home each day, eat, shower, do what she needed to do and absolutely collapse on the sofa.

 

Running heard over a twenty to thirty something kids for eight hours a day is exhausting! I would literally have to wake her up off of the couch to go to bed.

 

You should separate and go into individual counseling. You? Because your way, way to preoccupied with sex. Sex is less than .01 of what a marriage is about.

 

Its a great way to start the day ~ and its a great way to end a day. But what in tha' Hell are you going to do and talk about the other 23-1/2 hours of each day? Even if your having sex each and everyday.

 

She needs to go to regain her self confidence in herself. I'm not the guy that I was 30 years ago ~ never going to be. And she's never going to be the cheerleader that she was back in the day.

 

Both of you need to identify your own self weaknesses and daily seek self improvement. Both of you need to work on becoming the best "me" that you can be and become.

 

Not just for each other? But for your own self!

 

When all said and done? Your best one good chance at having a successful marriage?

 

Is with the one that you married first and had children with. The divorce rate for first time marriages is around 45 to 50% (Of the remaining 50% only 13% report being so-called "happily married")

 

The divorce rate for second marriages is a whopping 62%!

 

For third time marriages? 72% divorce rate! :eek:

 

One of the definitions of insanity is "Attempting to do the same thing over and over all the while expecting different results"

 

Divorce your wife?

 

Yea! Sure go for it!

 

Or you can get down to business and learn that "women aren't men" and "men aren't women"

 

Learn that men and women's brains are literally hard-wired differently.

 

Learn about cross-gender communication ~ i.e when she tells you "FINE!" Your going to pay through both the nose and @zz later!

 

Learning "body-language" (which is 98% of all communication between men and women ~ and women are more intuitive to such than men)

 

I could go and on and on ~ but the bottom line is?

 

Quit being a fool and get your @zz back into school!

 

Learn damn't!

This is great, Gunny! Ever consider writing a book to make some money on the side?? Unfortunately, all the things you are saying don't stick to men or women until they are in the situation many of us here on LS find ourselves in. I think most realize men and women are different in many ways, but there is no appreciation of this when you are young and married. The bottom line is everyone has their breaking point...for some a simple problem in their marriage is grounds for divorce. Others stick through it even though their lives are living hell. In both cases, open communication (listening and finding common ground) will fix a majority of the problems. But most people don't know how to communicate, and are too self-absorbed to admit to faults.

[Gunny376]

This is great, Gunny! Ever consider writing a book to make some money on the side?? Unfortunately, all the things you are saying don't stick to men or women until they are in the situation many of us here on LS find ourselves in. I think most realize men and women are different in many ways, but there is no appreciation of this when you are young and married. The bottom line is everyone has their breaking point...for some a simple problem in their marriage is grounds for divorce. Others stick through it even though their lives are living hell. In both cases, open communication (listening and finding common ground) will fix a majority of the problems. But most people don't know how to communicate, and are too self-absorbed to admit to faults.

 

What to say? I know a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff that most people could care less about let alone give a damn about.

 

I read a lot and my XHEX and last LTR GF would literally shudder when we would pass a book store in the mall? Bookstores are to me what shoe stores are to women.

 

I prefer reading over TV (Unless it the University of Alabama or Auburn {or any SEC game}

 

School ~ elementary through college prepares us for many things. Teaches us about many of the things we need to know, comprehend, understand, to make a living.

 

Save TWO things!

 

Interpersonal relationships (How to be not just a good father, a great father, a terrific father ~ but the greatest father a kid could ever have!

 

How to not just be a good husband, a great husband, a terrific husband, but the GREATEST husband any woman could ever need nor want!

 

Let us not polarize this. There's a break-even point between a an absolute masculine male and a supplicating @zz shell of a man.

 

But men are men and women are women ~ and there are certain things, feelings, and emotions that a woman needs and want from a man?

 

And it hasn't anything to do with sex ~ but if you get that hug aroung the neck? That half leg in the air, jumping on your with both legs and arms wrapped around you?

 

You've got a "Keeper"

 

Just don't **** it up!

 

Personal Finance.

[billswi]

The difference between Gunnys and spriggigs responces are amazing.

 

First spriggig,

 

The acts of indiscretion i keep dodging are meetings with high class female escorts (oxymoron?) that I've had. Very few, always protected and subsiquent tests to make sure I'm clean. So, there is no other woman. Only the brief physical encounter.

 

You are correct, i don't know my wife any better than I know any of what makes a woman tick. I can only make educated guesses based on what I learn from her.

 

You are right it's not all about sex. It's really hard to verbalize what it's all about. That is a big part of all of it though.

 

You seem to suggest that I am placing all the blame on her, I apologize if i made it sound that way. Not the case. I know I'm not perfect. Far from it. But thanks for the suggestions and warnings.

 

Gunny,

 

You have read my posts, right? You saw the very many grammer and spelling mistakes I assume...so no, intelligence is not my strong suit. I just present well maybe?

 

It's funny, most of the things you speak about I do actually realize. I also want to reiterate (I apologize if i made you think otherwise) that I am fine with the way my wife looks. I just point to that as a very sore spot for her, which I interpret as what is causing her to be the way she is. I am probably wrong, i just put that out there as I feel she sees it as a big deal.

 

I also understand all about what we eat and don't eat, as does she. Her inaction to fix any of this is not the problem, it is her inaction to fix or work on it, coupled with the complaining about it. I'm fine with the complaining if she is working on it, and i'm fine if she doesn't work on it, and doesn't complain. Call me selfish, but that is what I would like to see.

 

I've never been good at talking to or understand women, so i'm right with you there. I know some of the code words, but for the most part I have no clue whats going on.

 

Thanks for the very insightful information though.

[You Go Girl]

Well there's one thing you don't need to be told, because you know it very well in your own heart and yet you do it anyway.

If your female escorts are just sabotage to quit your marriage, then fine, carry on. BUT quit the marriage then!

 

But if you're ashamed, hiding them, or simply lying by omission--which you are! --

then you don't need to understand the female brain to know you have done wrong, and are doing your wife wrong.

 

Gunny, you nailed it again! Yes, he is placing too high a value on sex. His wife no doubt knows he is that way too, although she may not know about the escorts, YET.

[habs53]

The more i read this, the more i hope your wife kicks your sorry ass out and finds a real man. Good luck replacing her.

[billswi]

Yougo - Why would I not be ashamed? You think I'm proud that I did what I did. I know I'm a bad guy. That wasn't in question.

 

Too much value on sex.....if there is none, then why work on any of the other stuff? Any healthy relationship should have amounts of sex that make both parties happy.

 

Habs - You are right. There is no reason she should let me saty. I know I will never find anyone better. The grass is never greener. I think you have this picture of me sitting here with an evil grin on my face thinking how awesome I am....not the case. I'm a scared, weak, piece of crap human. But thanks for expressing your hopes and dreams....

[81West]

There is a hardness to this brief glimpse of your personality here - a little like biting on tinfoil sometimes. But that doesn't make you a miscreant for desiring sex and a fulfilling married life.

 

One of the biggest predictors of marital satisfaction is a similarity in personalities. Like many people, it sounds like some of this boils down to figuring out down the line that you haven't chosen particularly well. You want to go out, she wants to stay in. She is anxious, you are much less so. These kinds of fundamental differences can make the smallest marital interactions difficult and frustrating to the point of wearing everybody right out over time.

 

Does she work outside the home as well? Life can really wring the joy out of women, and undermine the sense of being a sexual, vibrant person fully engaged with life. Women's anxieties can be very diffuse and it doesn't really sound like you're able to have much empathy for her. That she doesn't 'just fix it' should probably be viewed not as a character flaw on her part, but a failure thus far to connect to what is truly wrong that has caused her to check out on herself to a degree. Whatever it is, I'm pretty sure it's not unbridled ecstasy at being your wife.

 

The truth is happiness with her is probably going to be an uphill climb, maybe even a futile one as you seem to have concluded. But there is no guarantee of happiness on 'the other side', and there is of course great consequence in changing your children's circumstance in such a life changing way. Still, happy people make the best parents. I don't think your children want to be 30 years old as you are today with an adult's knowledge that their painfully unhappy and bitter father got that way for their sake.

[billswi]

81-

 

I suppose your assesment of my personality is correct. When things are serious I am very serious. To the point of cold and calculating. Otherwise I'm a jovial happy person, leaning towards the sacastic side.

 

The personality conflict is definitely there....now, maybe it always was and one of us comprimised more?

 

She does work outside the home. That is a whole level of stress up and beyond what most of us will ever have to deal with. Unfortuneatly it is stressful and non rewarding all at the same time. I know this stress has an effect on her, but I make sure that i'm always there for her in that regard because I'm the only one that can be. She never has expressed an issue with dealing with this stress, because we talk about her job all the time, granted, i don't always want to, but i know she needs to.

 

We are currently 'working on it' I told her flat out my unhappyness and my definitive decision that it is over.....long conversation later and crying on both our parts ended in us agreeing to try with defined milestones so that we don't end up just trying futily for 6 years or something. Yes, I'm an a-hole and did not tell her about the indescretions of my past. That is something that will hopefully die with me.

[dgiirl]

Sex is very important and I don't think it should be trivialized. It's a normal healthy need that MANY men have and is often neglected or ridiculed as men being sex crazed. It's ok to desire a sexual relationship with your wife. The two of you need to work on it so that BOTH of your needs are getting met. Sex should not just be a chore for her. But when it is, it is usually because the woman is so overworked, stressed and tired that the sexual desire disappears.

 

We are currently 'working on it'

 

Are you going to truly try? Or is it already a futile attempt?

 

I strongly suggest counseling. But since that is off the table, at least start reading everything you can on how to save your marriage. Visit sites like marriage builders and go to your local library and read books like Venus/Mars books, and The 5 love Languages.

 

Put a genuine attempt to save your marriage by evaluating your thinking and perceptions and what you can do today to help improve the marriage. Most of the time, this is simply readjusting the way YOU think. For the time being, let divorce NOT be an option. Adjust your thinking so that you WANT to save your marriage and you WANT to work on it (even if you have to fake it, adjust your thinking so that it's pro-marriage)

 

If you haven't already done so, put a post in the marriage and infidelity forums. You need advice from people who are currently working on their marriage and see how they have dealt with it. Set your marriage up for success by putting yourself with people who will encourage you to stay in your marriage AND help your marriage become better.

 

And most importantly, the cheating HAS to stop. (Just because she's a hooker doesn't mean it's not cheating or she's not another woman)

[You Go Girl]

Sex is very important and I don't think it should be trivialized. It's a normal healthy need that MANY men have and is often neglected or ridiculed as men being sex crazed. It's ok to desire a sexual relationship with your wife. The two of you need to work on it so that BOTH of your needs are getting met. Sex should not just be a chore for her. But when it is, it is usually because the woman is so overworked, stressed and tired that the sexual desire disappears.

 

 

And most importantly, the cheating HAS to stop. (Just because she's a hooker doesn't mean it's not cheating or she's not another woman)

 

Must disagree here. As soon as we start calling wants as needs, all hell breaks loose in the world. Sex is a want, not a need. Needs are food, water, livable conditions such as temperature. Emotional needs involve staying sane, so interaction with other humans is usually necessary. But not sex. Sex is a want just like chocolate, alcohol, gambling, watching a movie, etc. If sex were a need, those who went without it for some definitive period of time would die or go insane. I just can't stand the human intellect being reduced to describing a want as a need.

That said, it's an important and high priority want, no doubt. But sex with a hooker is no different than using porn. There is no emotional connection being made, so it doesn't aid in the sanity of the individual and their balance with humanity. So OP's sexual encounters are doing nothing for his emotional needs, nor physical, since masturbation is an easier release. He is selfishly choosing to see a hooker, there is no need to. That said, most men's sexual drive is higher than most women's because of testosterone, hence men being more frustrated at the lack of sex in a marriage than women, especially women who have born children and their sexual drive is hormonally reduced for a few years afterward.

 

Wives don't loose desire because they are overworked, or tired, either. This is a myth. Wives loose desire because there is a lack of intimacy in the marriage, lack of respect, complacency, the list goes on. Many a happy wife will work all day, feel energized not tired, and desire a fun loving emotional connection with her husband physically, the same as a highly motivated or busy husband would. Tired, etc., are excuses for a desire to avoid physical connection when the emotional connection is lacking.

[tornandmarried]

sounds like its fixable....relationships/marriages are going to have ups and downs and times where u dont feel so emotionally connected....talk to her about how your feeling...or better yet catch her off guard and just start spicing it up on your own, shell proably catch on....but i dont see much need for divorce, u think your unhappy with her but maybe your both unhappy with yourselves...but try being in a violent, cheating, financial mess of a marriage...thats not unhappy thats devastating...if it was that bad you would know its time to go because youll be running for the hills......but yeah, stop being the bad guy and be the good guy

[billswi]

Well, the cheating has stopped, a while ago. It wasn't a consistant, thing, just something I did a few times (doesn't make it any better, just offering details).

 

I am going to make an attempt, but I want to be very careful I/we do not fall into the same rut just because it's easier and things explode down the road. I've been witness to many cyclic relationships that are very destructive, many times, instead of just once.

 

needs vs wants....I do feel one mans wants can be another mans needs. People are not all programmed the same. Hormone levels affect thought process' and if that can't be at least considered a need, then....

[You Go Girl]

Well, the cheating has stopped, a while ago. It wasn't a consistant, thing, just something I did a few times (doesn't make it any better, just offering details).

 

I am going to make an attempt, but I want to be very careful I/we do not fall into the same rut just because it's easier and things explode down the road. I've been witness to many cyclic relationships that are very destructive, many times, instead of just once.

 

needs vs wants....I do feel one mans wants can be another mans needs. People are not all programmed the same. Hormone levels affect thought process' and if that can't be at least considered a need, then....

 

The cheating wouldn't have been able to be stopped if it was a need. Needs just don't go away, and your hormone levels haven't dropped since the cheating stopped. See? Own it. Own it completely.

Anyway, I don't want to split hairs on want vs need, I am happy to read that you want to at least give it a last full-out effort before throwing in the towel.

So what do you do so that the outcome isn't cyclical? You form a bond with your wife that opens up intimacy in ways that you have never been close before.

This will probably entail telling her all, if you are capable of real close intimacy. The desire at some point to come clean would be very strong. But don't go there until the marriage is close enough that the two of you can weather that storm.

You need to learn about honesty intimacy, and probably so does your wife. If she's a SAHM, she made need to get out there into the world in order to make progress. One partner can't be living in a vacuum while the other partner does all the work.

[billswi]

If my needs are now met by my wife, then the cheating can stop.....See?

 

I think a huge thing to not make it cyclical is to be aware that we don't want it to be cyclical. I want to make sure we are both not falling into the same rut.

 

I wrote above how she does work outside the home and is not a SAHM.

 

Comming clean will have to wait for now. If it ever comes out....great, if not it is my burden to bear.

[You Go Girl]

If my needs are now met by my wife, then the cheating can stop.....See?

 

Comming clean will have to wait for now. If it ever comes out....great, if not it is my burden to bear.

 

No. Your needs? Hello--you're in a marriage. Your W isn't one of those prostitutes you see. She doesn't have an obligation to meet YOUR NEEDS--she has an obligation to be part of a partnership, which includes sex together WHEN the two of you have a good connection emotionally, and want each other. Want each other specifically. Want to be close. Desire one another specifically--not desire sex specifically, but to be with the spouse!

Sorry, but as long as you think selfishly, your marriage is doomed.

[billswi]

Sigh....you mis-interpret my intentions with the above.

 

When I wasn't gettting any sex, I focused on that. It became a need that I got fulfilled. I only fulfilled that physical need I didn't fill the emotional void that the intamacy with wife always filled.

 

I don't mean, or feel my wife replaces the hookers or vice versa, I know that is technically what I said.

[BetweenHere&There]

Not sure about everyone else....but there is a reason why I quit posting to this thread....Gunny - Valient effort..deaf ears....glad to see you back posting though.

[You Go Girl]

Not sure about everyone else....but there is a reason why I quit posting to this thread....Gunny - Valient effort..deaf ears....glad to see you back posting though.

 

Yeah, time to skip this pop stand and get a good espresso. Where should we go get some good coffee?