"What the OW gets"

[pureinheart]

I was a little shocked to see this posted by a fOW on another thread:

 

MM will lie as much if not more to the OW. The BS is most always in the driver's seat, the one MM loves, the one he comes home to night after night. She's the one with that can make love to her H all night and day long as many days as she wants, while the OW is left to wait for the next snippet when the MM can make a little time for a little nookie- and then he goes home to who? The wife that he loves. She's the one that gets him on holidays and glorious vacations. What does the OW get? Sex, texts, emails, broken promises and lies. She's the one left waiting...and waiting... and waiting. For what, for a huge majority of them, is what will never ever come. I'm glad you feel sad for others, but I no longer have empathy for that kind of lifestyle. It's pathetic in my opinion. Frankly, the whole cheating business is plain trashy and low class.

 

I get you girl on the hot sex with the man you love and comes home to you. How wonderful it is to have a man of my own. One that doesn't have to get up and go home. One that I can have crazy hot monkey sex with after a hot date out on the town. One that I can wake up later in the night to make love with again, and then once more in the morning. And maybe home for lunch for a nooner. Ah, I LOVE the married life.

 

 

 

I realise that it is one individual poster posting from her own personal experience, but why on earth would anyone put up with a R where all they got was "sex, texts, lies, emails and broken promises"... even for a day, never mind all the waiting!

 

Aside from those OWs who were just interested in sex (and thus presumably happy with just that, and not "waiting. and waiting. and waiting...."), are their other OW here who have gotten so very little from an A while wanting more? And if so, what kept you in the A?

 

Personally, IME as the OW, I got what was described (above) as the W's portion, and the BW got the stuff described (above) as the OW's portion, but As are all different and I don't expect everyone's to conform to mine. So if there are OWs who are currently in As where all they are getting is sex, texts, lies, emails and broken promises - can you please shed light on why you are happy to stay in your A? Is there something else you're getting which isn't on the list, that the fOW cited here may have missed (or not had in her A)?

 

Both exDM and I were very traumatised by the happenings in our pasts. When I finally agreed to "connect" with him emotionally there was much both of us got out of the R.

 

We gave each other back something we'd been missing since high school...in essense we gave each other back our lives...this is why "parting was such sweet sorrow".

 

We showed each other a new way to live, he taught me a lot concerning mechanics, and we went to a lot of schools together that our company was offering, he opened up new worlds to me in so many different areas...I was impressed by his intelligence and he was impressed by my heart.

 

I enjoy (sometimes) fixing my own stuff, doing my own projects...he always knows the best way ....we changed each others lives forever and I have zero regrets.

[woinlove]

I didn't see the original thread this post came from.

 

But I think it's very sad. I can't imagine staying in such an unhealthy R.

 

Why anyone would settle for scraps is beyond me. I got the holidays and the vacations and the man. I wouldn't settle for less.

 

And the BS (not betrayed spouse) about how he loves the W etc REALLY? If he loved her that much, he wouldn't be sleeping with another woman PERIOD. Romanticism of another kind. He came home to me after sleeping with her. Sorry I don't do sloppy seconds. But I guess if that's all some W's can hope for, then maybe they aren't all that.

 

GEL

 

What are you referring to? Are you referring to the quote taken from Spark's thread? Or are you referring to some other statement about the H loving the W? With your post coming right after Spark's post about the opening quote being from her thread, it seems like you might be taking a dig at her, but perhaps you are referring to some other quote?

[jennie-jennie]

That is true for anyone at any time. If it were easy, there would be no need for this site.

 

Everyone comes to their life's experiences when they are ready to; wisdom is gained at a very personal rate.

 

Some may be an OW, and for what they thought was love, waited too long, sacrificed some of their moral fiber during the wait, grew angry and now, in retrospect, regret the entire experience.

 

That's understandable to me. Life teaches us its lessons whether we want to learn them or not.

 

Some may not regret the experience.

 

SOme may not realize they had anything to regret until they have a different or better relationship in which to compare it too.

 

If you are fine in your affair, so be it.

 

If you had an affair and discover it was just a semi-relationship, so be it.

 

As there are all different marriages, there may be affairs.

 

Why bash this poster? It's her perception and while it may not be your experience, it does speak to many of the kinds of affairs that are out there.

 

And it is not an uncommon perception. Many women grow weary with affair crumbs and give it up and vow they want more or better in their next relationship.

 

So What?

 

This is off my happy reconciliation sex thread, yes?

 

I can't figure out of this post is in response to the OP or to me. Well anyway, no one is trying to bash the poster, just understand her and others like her.

[jennie-jennie]

And the BS (not betrayed spouse) about how he loves the W etc REALLY? If he loved her that much, he wouldn't be sleeping with another woman PERIOD. Romanticism of another kind. He came home to me after sleeping with her. Sorry I don't do sloppy seconds. But I guess if that's all some W's can hope for, then maybe they aren't all that.

 

GEL

 

This is so the truth. The one getting sloppy seconds is the wife. Never would I want to trade places with her.

 

A fair comparison would be when you as a teenage girl are together with a teenage boy still living at home. He has to go home each night, that is true, but it is with you his emotions lay. And his sex life. lol

[torranceshipman]

I don't like the sloppy seconds analogy, but since it has been mentioned!-isn't both the W AND the OW getting sloppy seconds, depending on which of the OW or W the MM has just had sex with, and who they are then about to have sex with?

 

I guess to answer the OP, I suppose it depends on whether you have your A glasses, or post A glasses on - that seems to put most people at polar opposites, of other posters, or to themselves when they compare how they felt in the A and how they felt so radically different after it?

[SidLyon]

I don't like the sloppy seconds analogy, but since it has been mentioned!-isn't both the W AND the OW getting sloppy seconds, depending on which of the OW or W the MM has just had sex with, and who they are then about to have sex with?

 

...QUOTE]

 

Exactly, but usually only one of the women knows/agrees to it.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't like the sloppy seconds analogy, but since it has been mentioned!-isn't both the W AND the OW getting sloppy seconds, depending on which of the OW or W the MM has just had sex with, and who they are then about to have sex with?

 

There are a lot of MM and MW out there who have stopped having sex with their spouses. Just read LS and you will see.

 

I guess to answer the OP, I suppose it depends on whether you have your A glasses, or post A glasses on - that seems to put most people at polar opposites, of other posters, or to themselves when they compare how they felt in the A and how they felt so radically different after it?

 

I understand some people have a tendency to view their relationships differently when they are over. I have never been like that. Perhaps it is a matter of personality.

 

I know my sister is like that. She claims she never loved the father of her children. LOL She hates him now, but she was once so in love with him and so proud of showing him of to everyone. To me the fact that she hates him means that she is not over him yet, although many years have passed.

 

I guess I look at my relationships realistically even when I am in them, since my opinion doesn't change when they are over.

[SidLyon]

There are a lot of MM and MW out there who have stopped having sex with their spouses. Just read LS and you will see.....

 

 

You were the poster who said: "The one getting sloppy seconds is the wife."

 

(BTW what a horrible term for you to use - I really dislike it).

 

If the MM has stopped having sex with his wife then presumably neither are getting sloppy seconds; but if they are, then as TS correctly points out both will get the sloppy seconds at some point. But only the OW usually knowingly accepts it.

[OWoman]

I guess to answer the OP, I suppose it depends on whether you have your A glasses, or post A glasses on - that seems to put most people at polar opposites, of other posters, or to themselves when they compare how they felt in the A and how they felt so radically different after it?

 

 

I suspect that whether or not people feel differently about their A (or any other R) during and after it would depend on whether they got the outcome they'd hoped for - and at what personal cost.

 

Some OWs who are happy to be OWs have no regrets during or after, and look back on their As positively with the same satisfaction as they felt during them.

 

Other OWs who compromise their principles in the A (whether by having the A at all, or by how they conduct themselves within the A in terms of "settling" for less than they feel they deserve, etc) may rationalise their behaviour to themselves during the A, but afterward look back on it - and themselves - with horror. This group is mostly likely to become "reformed", as has been observed previously.

 

Still other OWs "find" themselves in As, are aware of the cognitive dissonance of their position and their values, and are deeply unhappy throughout the A... but do not leave immediately, often because they feel they lack agency, trapped by their "love" or "addiction" or some other kind of emotional, financial or physical dependence. These OWs are often very angry at the end of the A - mostly at the WS, in a further denial of their agency.

 

"Post A glasses" need not differ from "A glasses", and typically won't, if your being in an A and the way you behave in an A is consistent with your values and principles, and your integrity remains unscathed by the experience. IMO, anyway

[OWoman]

You were the poster who said: "The one getting sloppy seconds is the wife."

 

(BTW what a horrible term for you to use - I really dislike it).

 

The term was first used in this thread by GEL, not Jen - but GEL's use of the term draws on the longstanding tradition of BWs accusing OWs of settling for "sloppy seconds" - so GEL was using the term ironically. It probably bypassed newer members, but those of us who've been around a while would recognise it for what it is...

 

(And yes, it's a disgusting term - and if even BSs dislike it, perhaps we'll finally see it vanish from the LS discourse!! Hopefully taking "side dish", "dirty little secret" and "cake eater" with it...)

[torranceshipman]

The other terms can go but lets keep cake eater - that one is cool

 

I think it is true about boundaries...I guess that if people in the A are happy with their behavior, etc, they might not think too differently after it has ended. But....the other BIG factor, of course, is often A's end badly, and the OW ends up seeing that the MM couldn't deliver on any of his promises. I guess that requires a big conceptual shift in remembering all those sweet moments and promises, and having to accept that a lot of them weren't sincere, so it puts a completely different spin on everything.

 

Often the end of an A can lead the W or the OW, or even the MM, to gain important new information about all concerned, which can change a lot of things.

[Ellin]

I was a little shocked to see this posted by a fOW on another thread:

 

"Quote:

MM will lie as much if not more to the OW. The BS is most always in the driver's seat, the one MM loves, the one he comes home to night after night. She's the one with that can make love to her H all night and day long as many days as she wants, while the OW is left to wait for the next snippet when the MM can make a little time for a little nookie- and then he goes home to who? The wife that he loves. She's the one that gets him on holidays and glorious vacations. What does the OW get? Sex, texts, emails, broken promises and lies. She's the one left waiting...and waiting... and waiting. For what, for a huge majority of them, is what will never ever come. I'm glad you feel sad for others, but I no longer have empathy for that kind of lifestyle. It's pathetic in my opinion. Frankly, the whole cheating business is plain trashy and low class.

 

I get you girl on the hot sex with the man you love and comes home to you. How wonderful it is to have a man of my own. One that doesn't have to get up and go home. One that I can have crazy hot monkey sex with after a hot date out on the town. One that I can wake up later in the night to make love with again, and then once more in the morning. And maybe home for lunch for a nooner. Ah, I LOVE the married life . "

I realise that it is one individual poster posting from her own personal experience, but why on earth would anyone put up with a R where all they got was "sex, texts, lies, emails and broken promises"... even for a day, never mind all the waiting!

 

Aside from those OWs who were just interested in sex (and thus presumably happy with just that, and not "waiting. and waiting. and waiting...."), are their other OW here who have gotten so very little from an A while wanting more? And if so, what kept you in the A?

 

Personally, IME as the OW, I got what was described (above) as the W's portion, and the BW got the stuff described (above) as the OW's portion, but As are all different and I don't expect everyone's to conform to mine. So if there are OWs who are currently in As where all they are getting is sex, texts, lies, emails and broken promises - can you please shed light on why you are happy to stay in your A? Is there something else you're getting which isn't on the list, that the fOW cited here may have missed (or not had in her A)?

There is an obvious bias in the quote in question. OW's position is presented in as bad light as possible and the opposite is true for BS. The reality is different of course, as it is hard to describe a BW's life in rosey colors, to start with.

 

The original poster probably had a bad A experience made worse by regretting it after it ended and is presenting the possible bad side of it as the only reality of an A, while in fact it can be said that there are as many different situations as people experiencing it, even though for some the bolded part is indeed a part of their A experience.

 

It all comes down to weighing of the benefits and disadvantages of every situation and when taking this alone into consideration many AP could come to a conclusion that there are content with their A relationship, however there are other factors that might disturb this satisfaction and these are the social expectations and judgements, the "should' and "shouldn't", the "right" and "wrong".

[jthorne]

Under your thinly disguised veil of trying to understand, you can bash all you want. What you conveniently and I think purposely neglected to comment on is the most important part of the post:

She's the one left waiting...and waiting... and waiting. For what, for a huge majority of them, is what will never ever come.

No one can deny that this is the case for many OW. Some of them posting on this very thread. Since we all know that, and you know that, it leads me to believe that maybe it wasn't the author of the quote that you were bashing, but all of the other OW out there who are still OW.... Edited August 24, 2010 by jthorne

[OWoman]

Under your thinly disguised veil of trying to understand, you can bash all you want. What you conveniently and I think purposely neglected to comment on is the most important part of the post:

No one can deny that this is the case for many OW. Some of them posting on this very thread. Since we all know that, and you know that, it leads me to believe that maybe it wasn't the author of the quote that you were bashing, but all of the other OW out there who are still OW....

 

 

Actually, it wasn't intended as bashing at all - though it clearly touched a nerve?

 

It really was a question - if someone really recognises that that is all that they are getting in an A, wtf are they doing in it? For those that are still in As, is that all that they are getting - or is it different for them, that they are getting other things that keep them there? Or, if not, and they really are getting just that and wanting something more - then, honestly, what is keeping them there?

 

An earlier post - I think it was Torrance? - mooted that it may be a perspective that comes after the ending of an A that didn't work out as hoped, something which I responded to as that seemed to make some sense... but the OP was certainly a genuine question, as I really couldn't understand someone willingly putting themselves in a position like that and staying there for any kind of time.

[jthorne]

Actually, it wasn't intended as bashing at all - though it clearly touched a nerve?

 

It really was a question - if someone really recognises that that is all that they are getting in an A, wtf are they doing in it? For those that are still in As, is that all that they are getting - or is it different for them, that they are getting other things that keep them there? Or, if not, and they really are getting just that and wanting something more - then, honestly, what is keeping them there?

 

An earlier post - I think it was Torrance? - mooted that it may be a perspective that comes after the ending of an A that didn't work out as hoped, something which I responded to as that seemed to make some sense... but the OP was certainly a genuine question, as I really couldn't understand someone willingly putting themselves in a position like that and staying there for any kind of time.

Mmm hmm, okay...

It touched no nerves with me. I'd have to care what others think for it to touch a nerve- but it obviously did with others.

 

And again, you skipped the most important part. I would wonder why that is, but I can't be bothered to follow this thread any further.

[jennie-jennie]

You were the poster who said: "The one getting sloppy seconds is the wife."

 

(BTW what a horrible term for you to use - I really dislike it).

 

If the MM has stopped having sex with his wife then presumably neither are getting sloppy seconds; but if they are, then as TS correctly points out both will get the sloppy seconds at some point. But only the OW usually knowingly accepts it.

 

Neither I nor GEL were talking about having sex only. It was Torrence who did that. Please refrain from twisting my words.

 

And of course my response and most likely GEL's were responses to the BS' frequent telling the OW on LS that they only get leftovers.

 

If the OW gets all the good stuff: romance, sex, trips, attention, what is indeed left for the wife? Washing the laundry? Cooking the meals? Taking care of the kids? Nagging at him to fix the broken sink?

 

I didn't see the original thread this post came from.

 

But I think it's very sad. I can't imagine staying in such an unhealthy R.

 

Why anyone would settle for scraps is beyond me. I got the holidays and the vacations and the man. I wouldn't settle for less.

 

And the BS (not betrayed spouse) about how he loves the W etc REALLY? If he loved her that much, he wouldn't be sleeping with another woman PERIOD. Romanticism of another kind. He came home to me after sleeping with her. Sorry I don't do sloppy seconds. But I guess if that's all some W's can hope for, then maybe they aren't all that.

 

GEL

 

This is so the truth. The one getting sloppy seconds is the wife. Never would I want to trade places with her.

 

A fair comparison would be when you as a teenage girl are together with a teenage boy still living at home. He has to go home each night, that is true, but it is with you his emotions lay. And his sex life. lol

[OWoman]

And again, you skipped the most important part. I would wonder why that is, but I can't be bothered to follow this thread any further.

 

I commented on the part you highlighted - about the OW waiting. Beyond that I can't see what you're referring to - unless it's typed in a white font which doesn't show up on a white background? So, wonder no more why that is - I've told you. It's because I haven't a clue what you're referring to, since I addressed everything in your post AFAIAA.

[jennie-jennie]

I am sure that Jennie used the sentence I quoted, and that she was the first to direct it specifically at BWs on this thread (not the other way round as you seem to suggest). We were talking about this thread not some other accusations on other threads in the distant past.

 

As for GEL's words, she was referring to herself not accepting sloppy seconds. This is not the same as a non-ironic barb directed at BWs, which if they're not having sex with their H's doesn't apply anyway.

 

As I said before if the sloppy seconds analogy is going to be thrown around (and I agree it's a disgusting term) then you should probably acknowledge that the BW does not generally knowingly participate in it - unlike some of the the OWs.

 

Not that I want to point the finger at GEL, I liked her post which is why I replied to it, but it was she who said:

 

Sorry I don't do sloppy seconds. But I guess if that's all some W's can hope for, then maybe they aren't all that.

[donnamaybe]

Not that I want to point the finger at GEL, I liked her post which is why I replied to it, but it was she who said:

She is ALSO one of the few OW who refused to stay in an A situation for years, thus refusing to ACCEPT what has been commonly referred to in this thread as "sloppy seconds."

[jennie-jennie]

The other terms can go but lets keep cake eater - that one is cool

 

I think it is true about boundaries...I guess that if people in the A are happy with their behavior, etc, they might not think too differently after it has ended. But....the other BIG factor, of course, is often A's end badly, and the OW ends up seeing that the MM couldn't deliver on any of his promises. I guess that requires a big conceptual shift in remembering all those sweet moments and promises, and having to accept that a lot of them weren't sincere, so it puts a completely different spin on everything.

 

Often the end of an A can lead the W or the OW, or even the MM, to gain important new information about all concerned, which can change a lot of things.

 

Promises. There is one big promise the MM and the OW are aware he did not keep: the marriage vows. This knowledge hopefully leads to both MM and OW being careful to put to much emphasis on promises.

 

My MM has been very careful not to promise more than he actually can deliver. I in turn have been very careful not to take anything for granted.

 

A promise, just like the marriage vows, is often made with the intent of fulfilling it. That does not mean that the person who gives the promise actually can deliver. That should not be a surprise to anyone.

[donnamaybe]

Promises. There is one big promise the MM and the OW are aware he did not keep: the marriage vows. This knowledge hopefully leads to both MM and OW being careful to put to much emphasis on promises.

 

My MM has been very careful not to promise more than he actually can deliver. I in turn have been very careful not to take anything for granted.

 

A promise, just like the marriage vows, is often made with the intent of fulfilling it. That does not mean that the person who gives the promise actually can deliver. That should not be a surprise to anyone.

I would HATE a relationship wherein I had no right to any expectations from my partner. I'm sure he wouldn't be with me if that's all I could give HIM as well.

[jennie-jennie]

She is ALSO one of the few OW who refused to stay in an A situation for years, thus refusing to ACCEPT what has been commonly referred to in this thread as "sloppy seconds."

 

I like GEL and I respect her, but I think it was more about her MM being ready to leave his marriage than anything else. It doesn't matter what ultimatums you set, if the MM is not ready he is not ready.

[donnamaybe]

I like GEL and I respect her, but I think it was more about her MM being ready to leave his marriage than anything else. It doesn't matter what ultimatums you set, if the MM is not ready he is not ready.

Yes, but had he NOT been ready to leave his M, she wouldn't have hung around on the sidelines waiting.

[jennie-jennie]

Mmm hmm, okay...

It touched no nerves with me. I'd have to care what others think for it to touch a nerve- but it obviously did with others.

 

And again, you skipped the most important part. I would wonder why that is, but I can't be bothered to follow this thread any further.

 

The key, jthorne, is to not wait but enjoy what you have today. Did you really not do that for the 19 years you were in an affair? Were you just waiting for the future all that time?

[jennie-jennie]

I commented on the part you highlighted - about the OW waiting. Beyond that I can't see what you're referring to - unless it's typed in a white font which doesn't show up on a white background? So, wonder no more why that is - I've told you. It's because I haven't a clue what you're referring to, since I addressed everything in your post AFAIAA.

 

Could jthorne mean the part she underlined:

She's the one left waiting...and waiting... and waiting. For what, for a huge majority of them, is what will never ever come.