"What the OW gets"

[OWoman]

I am very disappointed by this thread. When I saw the title, I looked forward to reading the discussion, because I would like to understand what it is in ANY less-than-satisfactory relationship that keeps people hanging on. They say that we do things for a payoff, even when the payoff is not clear, and I'd really like to know what the payoff is for people who are grappling with less-than ideal relationships. I was hoping to read their posts.

 

OWoman, I agree with you probably 9 times out of 10, maybe more, but IMHO, the opening post is offensive to OW/OM. It comes off to me sounding like OW bashing, like a flaunt: "I would never put up with thaaaat! ('cos I'm/my situation is better than that!)

 

I am not an OW, never have knowingly been an OW, was a BS, and I am still offended on behalf of OW/OM. I think the opening post is just demeaning, belittling, humiliating, and disrespectful to the OW/OM here who are struggling with their relationships, or the aftermath of their relationships. And MOST of the posters here ARE OW/OM who are struggling in some way with their relationships.

 

While I totally disagree with affairs, I have respect for the genuine pain and turmoil some the people in those affairs are dealing with, or have dealt with. Please show a little respect for their suffering.

 

I also am offended that this post has been limited to referring only to OW. That's just sexist. Most of the OM who post here are, or have been, struggling with painful situations, too. It's not JUST women who "put up with."

 

Interestingly, most of those OW/OM have not commented in six pages.

 

I think I understand why.

 

I'm done. Blast away. . .

 

FOG, I certainly didn't mean the thread to be excluding - I simply used the genders as presented in the original post I quoted. Of course OM were assumed under that same mantle - I had hoped people would know that and feel free to post. But, in case not:

 

OM, feel free to participate! Read MM/MW for MM, and OW / OM for OW.

 

As to the OW-bashing - OTC, it was certainly not meant to be that. From responses here, and posts elsewhere, it would seem that most OWs on LS feel that they get other things from the A beyond the mediocre sex and broken promises that the OP listed - they get support of various kinds, companionship, friendship, passion, emotional connections of varying depths and even love. There may well be some OWs who feel that all they get is mediocre sex and broken promises, but either they are not hoping for anything more and are not wanting the promises fulfilled, or they are in the process of exiting their As because they feel them to be insufficient. I can't recall any OW currently in an A feeling that all she was getting was mediocre sex and broken promises, but choosing to remain in it nevertheless.

 

But, if there is anyone like that, and if they feel dissed by the thread - then I apologise unreservedly - and welcome their input. I would genuinely like to know why someone in that position remains in an A if their needs are so patently not being met.

 

Are they exercising a choice? Do they feel they have no options, and that this little is better than nothing at all? Do they feel trapped, "addicted" or dependent in some way that won't allow them to walk away?

 

As are all different, and if As like that are represented here on LS, then it would be good if those could be more visible in amongst the others.

[piscis]

OW

I was also shocked by that post I even spoke about it with my therapist!!

Glad you started a thread on it.

 

Maybe you will not agree with me but I want to share how I see some things:

I'd rather be the one waiting for a phone call or a text as the main thread says that being the one he is waiting to leave for a moment downstairs or to the car or to the supermarket to be able to phone or text someone else.

 

I'd rather have 2 or 3 nights a week when he lies and tells her he is on a bussiness trip than being the one that thinks if he is truly on a bussiness trip.

 

I'd rather be alone at night that being the woman he returns at night AFTER having sex and dinner and laughs and wine with an OW.

 

And as time goes by I realize that I know what is to be his W and I'd rather "have him" in my life as my MM because for me I loose the less.

 

This was a real rude way of seeing it but for me is as simple as that, of course there is love, companionship, he helps me and has been a great emotional support through things I have passed, as I have been for him, so it is way more than a couple of texts.

Edited August 25, 2010 by piscis

[jj33]

Im not a current OW but when I was in the A (which was before I joined LS) I never felt like I was on the sidelines, never had the type of relationship described in the quote. It wouldnt have interested me. Someone said you get what you expect but I suspect most who are hanging on are doing so because they are getting other things from the relationship that are not listed in the quote.

 

I think the forum is biased because in many cases the posters are posting when they are not at the best point in their relationships.

 

Many of the posters are in a place where promises have been made expectations have been raised and they are frustrated because the relationship DOES have a lot of substance and they want it to move to the next level. The situatoins where people are treated like casual hook ups and wait by the phone desparately wanting more seem to be a minority.

 

 

Seems to me that often people are venting here. We all vent about various things in our lives but this is the place to vent about an A. The complaints vented often dont define the situation, they are just things you need to get off your chest. Perhaps I am being a master of the obvious?

[White Flower]

Seems to me that often people are venting here. We all vent about various things in our lives but this is the place to vent about an A. The complaints vented often dont define the situation, they are just things you need to get off your chest. Perhaps I am being a master of the obvious?

Thing is if we discuss our joys and delights within the A our threads get shut down and we insight all kinds of havoc for expressing said joy.

 

Further, most people tend to write in the diaries about the bad times, the situations they are frustrated with and trying to figure out. And LS is like a diary that speaks back. We should also journallize our joys so that whoever finds our journal, usually our spouse or children, will see that we actually enjoyed our lives as well. But most people don't do that. So yeah, you're going to see more venting here than anything else. That doesn't mean our A keeps us in a constant state of misery.

 

I had years of joy in my A and still don't regret it.

[BlackLovely]

I expect him not to have sex with his wife and if he does, tell me. I expect him not to lie. I expect him to treat me well, to be there when I need him. And so on.

 

So yes, I have expectations on him.

 

I'm wondering why you would expect your MM not to have sex with his wife. She's the person he has promised himself to, regardless of what he does on the side. Husbands and wives have the right to make love to each other, no matter what the other woman (or man) says.

 

If he's not honest with his wife, what makes you think that he'll be honest with you?? I'm genuinely confused about this.

[jennie-jennie]

I'm wondering why you would expect your MM not to have sex with his wife. She's the person he has promised himself to, regardless of what he does on the side. Husbands and wives have the right to make love to each other, no matter what the other woman (or man) says.

 

If he's not honest with his wife, what makes you think that he'll be honest with you?? I'm genuinely confused about this.

 

I'll keep it short since I don't want to thread jack.

 

We are in a relationship. We have an agreement of exclusivity.

 

He has been nothing but honest to me. Our relationship has its foundation on honesty even when that honesty hurts. Obviously that is not the case with his marriage.

Edited August 26, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[BlackLovely]

I'll keep it short since I don't want to thread jack.

 

We are in a relationship. We have an agreement of exclusivity.

 

He has been nothing but honest to me. Our relationship has its foundation on honesty even when that honesty hurts. Obviously that is not the case with his marriage.

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[BlackLovely]

Thing is if we discuss our joys and delights within the A our threads get shut down and we insight all kinds of havoc for expressing said joy.

 

Further, most people tend to write in the diaries about the bad times, the situations they are frustrated with and trying to figure out. And LS is like a diary that speaks back. We should also journallize our joys so that whoever finds our journal, usually our spouse or children, will see that we actually enjoyed our lives as well. But most people don't do that. So yeah, you're going to see more venting here than anything else. That doesn't mean our A keeps us in a constant state of misery.

 

I had years of joy in my A and still don't regret it.

 

Really WF? I'm surprised and dismayed at this-why have an OW/OM section if people cannot post freely about their experiences??

[OWoman]

Oops, what happened to OWoman's response to Spark about class? It seems as although Spark does not like posts being reported, someone is looking out for her.

 

It seems some people only like patronising sarcasm to go in one direction, not both

[OWoman]

Really WF? I'm surprised and dismayed at this-why have an OW/OM section if people cannot post freely about their experiences??

 

To have a section where OWs and OMs can post about how awful it all is, to make others feel better about themselves?

 

To have a section where others can post nasty, provocative posts about the OW / OM in their triangle, with impunity?

 

To have a section where bible-bashers can spew hell-fire and damnation about those in "unblessed" Ms and those who attempt to sunder what god has joined?

 

To have a home for OPs seeking NC to end their miserable As?

 

OK, I give up - what's the answer? :p :p

[donnamaybe]

OW

I was also shocked by that post I even spoke about it with my therapist!!

Glad you started a thread on it.

 

Maybe you will not agree with me but I want to share how I see some things:

I'd rather be the one waiting for a phone call or a text as the main thread says that being the one he is waiting to leave for a moment downstairs or to the car or to the supermarket to be able to phone or text someone else.

 

I'd rather have 2 or 3 nights a week when he lies and tells her he is on a bussiness trip than being the one that thinks if he is truly on a bussiness trip.

 

I'd rather be alone at night that being the woman he returns at night AFTER having sex and dinner and laughs and wine with an OW.

 

And as time goes by I realize that I know what is to be his W and I'd rather "have him" in my life as my MM because for me I loose the less.

 

This was a real rude way of seeing it but for me is as simple as that, of course there is love, companionship, he helps me and has been a great emotional support through things I have passed, as I have been for him, so it is way more than a couple of texts.

So this is only an "either/or" situation? There HAS to be two women dancing attendance on a selfish, lying man? At least a BS, unless there hasn't been a D day, doesn't KNOW the guy is getting both sides of his bread buttered. I can tell you for sure that if I found my guy sneaking around like that, I'd boot his arse out the door in a hot second. And I can also say with certainty that he'd be BEGGING me to take him back. But no way. I'd tell him to go take his lying, sneaky butt to his OW and let HER deal with ALL that comes with a full time day in, day out R with him.

 

But she may not WANT him full time. Then the joke would be on him.

[jennie-jennie]

So this is only an "either/or" situation? There HAS to be two women dancing attendance on a selfish, lying man? At least a BS, unless there hasn't been a D day, doesn't KNOW the guy is getting both sides of his bread buttered. I can tell you for sure that if I found my guy sneaking around like that, I'd boot his arse out the door in a hot second. And I can also say with certainty that he'd be BEGGING me to take him back. But no way. I'd tell him to go take his lying, sneaky butt to his OW and let HER deal with ALL that comes with a full time day in, day out R with him.

 

But she may not WANT him full time. Then the joke would be on him.

 

And why would the OW not want the MM full time? Many of us are, like I am, women who have been married or in long term relationships earlier. We know what it is to live with a man full time. No surprise there.

[Silly_Girl]

And why would the OW not want the MM full time? Many of us are, like I am, women who have been married or in long term relationships earlier. We know what it is to live with a man full time. No surprise there.

 

There are some J-J, who openly post they don't want what you and I would term a normal, committed relationship. I do. They don't.

[donnamaybe]

And why would the OW not want the MM full time? Many of us are, like I am, women who have been married or in long term relationships earlier. We know what it is to live with a man full time. No surprise there.

But you have to agree that many would NOT want the MM full time. We've all read their stories here and continue to do so daily.

[Silly_Girl]

But you have to agree that many would NOT want the MM full time. We've all read their stories here and continue to do so daily.

 

And many would.

[jthorne]

OW

I was also shocked by that post I even spoke about it with my therapist!!

I am sorry your situation is such that you need to seek therapy. I pray that they are not encouraging you to twist the truth.

Glad you started a thread on it.

I am glad you commented on it, because you illustrate the point beautifully.

 

Maybe you will not agree with me but I want to share how I see some things:

I'd rather be the one waiting for a phone call or a text as the main thread says that being the one he is waiting to leave for a moment downstairs or to the car or to the supermarket to be able to phone or text someone else.

If MM were to get sick, who is the one in the hospital caring for MM, making decisions for him? Who is the one who might not even know about it until much later? Who is the one that is not even welcome in the hospital room?

 

I'd rather have 2 or 3 nights a week when he lies and tells her he is on a bussiness trip than being the one that thinks if he is truly on a bussiness trip.

Who is the one that attends public events with MM, and who is the one held in secret? Who is the one that knows all of MM's friends, family and people who are dear to him, and who is the one that has met practically no one in MM's life?

 

I'd rather be alone at night that being the woman he returns at night AFTER having sex and dinner and laughs and wine with an OW.

Who is the one that has access to his dear daughter? Who is the one who has access to his best friends? Who is the one that co-owns property and assets with the MM, and who is the one who has claim to nothing? If a Last Will were to be read, who gets everything, and who isn't even mentioned?

 

And as time goes by I realize that I know what is to be his W and I'd rather "have him" in my life as my MM because for me I loose the less.

Speaking of loss, should your MM die tomorrow, who will be in the front row at the funeral? Who will be receiving the support of family, friends and community, and who will probably not be welcome at the memorial?

 

This was a real rude way of seeing it but for me is as simple as that, of course there is love, companionship, he helps me and has been a great emotional support through things I have passed, as I have been for him, so it is way more than a couple of texts.

Has your MM filed for divorce, or are you still waiting?

[jennie-jennie]

Originally Posted by piscis

OW

I was also shocked by that post I even spoke about it with my therapist!!

I am sorry your situation is such that you need to seek therapy. I pray that they are not encouraging you to twist the truth.

Glad you started a thread on it.

I am glad you commented on it, because you illustrate the point beautifully.

 

Maybe you will not agree with me but I want to share how I see some things:

I'd rather be the one waiting for a phone call or a text as the main thread says that being the one he is waiting to leave for a moment downstairs or to the car or to the supermarket to be able to phone or text someone else.

If MM were to get sick, who is the one in the hospital caring for MM, making decisions for him? Who is the one who might not even know about it until much later? Who is the one that is not even welcome in the hospital room?

 

I'd rather have 2 or 3 nights a week when he lies and tells her he is on a bussiness trip than being the one that thinks if he is truly on a bussiness trip.

Who is the one that attends public events with MM, and who is the one held in secret? Who is the one that knows all of MM's friends, family and people who are dear to him, and who is the one that has met practically no one in MM's life?

 

I'd rather be alone at night that being the woman he returns at night AFTER having sex and dinner and laughs and wine with an OW.

Who is the one that has access to his dear daughter? Who is the one who has access to his best friends? Who is the one that co-owns property and assets with the MM, and who is the one who has claim to nothing? If a Last Will were to be read, who gets everything, and who isn't even mentioned?

 

And as time goes by I realize that I know what is to be his W and I'd rather "have him" in my life as my MM because for me I loose the less.

Speaking of loss, should your MM die tomorrow, who will be in the front row at the funeral? Who will be receiving the support of family, friends and community, and who will probably not be welcome at the memorial?

 

This was a real rude way of seeing it but for me is as simple as that, of course there is love, companionship, he helps me and has been a great emotional support through things I have passed, as I have been for him, so it is way more than a couple of texts.

Has your MM filed for divorce, or are you still waiting?

 

This sounds familiar to me. It sounds like the split self, where the wife provides the sense of family and the OW the connection to the MM's emotional self.

[donnamaybe]

And many would.

But any gal a guy would wind up with after me he would be SORELY disappointed in anyway.

[someday]

We all must deal with the consequences the come into our lives due to our actions. None of us ever know what the *real* consequences might be- sure we can guess pretty accurately, but we just don’t know.

If you’re lying and double dealing, well you’re going to have to pay the consequences someday. If you’re reaping the benefits of a lying double dealer, then you will need to face the consequences someday.

I don’t see why that’s such a hard concept to grasp.

And no I don’t believe in ‘karma’ or anything of the sort.

[jthorne]

This sounds familiar to me. It sounds like the split self, where the wife provides the sense of family and the OW the connection to the MM's emotional self.

well then you should know from experience what the OW of a split self gets: waiting and waiting and waiting. For a choice that never comes. See? The quote wasn't off the mark at all!

[White Flower]

Really WF? I'm surprised and dismayed at this-why have an OW/OM section if people cannot post freely about their experiences??

Exactly. It says it is there, it claims to have rules, but posters keep coming in and disrupting it.

 

Society still wants us to wear scarlet letters, as modern as we are.

[2sure]

I have to say that although I respect and embrace everyone's perceptions , concepts, rights, opinions...whether I agree or not...

That whole "split -self " thing regarding Married Affair Partners - MM exclusively it seems...is truly a load of crap.

 

I understand compartmentalization - thats not hard. Liars do it. Posers do it. Working Mothers do it!

 

That doesnt make them Sybil.

And Sybil couldnt help it.

[jthorne]

The "split self"? Sounds more like the "selfish self" to me.

Split self, selfish self, doesn't matter how anyone spins it. It's the sad reality for a lot of OW.

[donnamaybe]

I have to say that although I respect and embrace everyone's perceptions , concepts, rights, opinions...whether I agree or not...

That whole "split -self " thing regarding Married Affair Partners - MM exclusively it seems...is truly a load of crap.

 

I understand compartmentalization - thats not hard. Liars do it. Posers do it. Working Mothers do it!

 

That doesnt make them Sybil.

And Sybil couldnt help it.

We could ALL make up "isms" or syndromes to explain away our poor personal behaviors. But what good does that do anyone EXCEPT to allow the poor actor to continue in his/her bad behaviors?

 

Enabling, I tells ya.

[jthorne]

Exactly. It says it is there, it claims to have rules, but posters keep coming in and disrupting it.

 

Society still wants us to wear scarlet letters, as modern as we are.

Modern or not, I pray there's never a day when cheating is universally acceptable behavior!