The kids

[Dexter Morgan]

Well I'm concerned with whether I'm okay with it and that's why I'm here. If you aren't concerned with how I feel then I wonder why you are taking the time to post in my thread. If you are just concerned with yourself then no offense buddy but I'm going to take what you say with that grain of salt.

 

well, people that could care less about the pain they are causing others will dismiss the truth.

 

my saying that about whether you are concerned with it or not is alot of people will be disgusted by the lack of compassion for the wife and the idea that he will string her along and dump her later when she could have been using that precious time to rebuild...time she will never get back.

 

 

 

So I'm not to assume how his wife would react but I'm to assume how his kids would react? I don't get that one.

 

 

Assuming that a wife would be vindictive as if she is some sort of monster, and assuming an understandable angry reaction from someone is two different things.

 

by trying to insinuate she would be vindictive is you and him assigning an undesirable character trait to her.

 

assuming that the kids will be angry, at least initially and even on the smallest level, is an emotion that anyone would feel if they found out their parent was cheating on the other.....unless the kids could care less about the pain caused to their mother.

[herenow]

You seem to have a justification for everything. Please tell me how you justify what I said in my post.

 

IMO, a man who is so selfless that he would stay married to a woman he doesn't love for the sake of his kids isn't the kind of man who would have an affair. Especially if he loves another woman. That kind of man would be sensitive enough to his wife to know that he was robbing her of the true love she deserves.

 

Also, If his kids and their well-being are more important than his own happiness, he wouldn't be spending time with an OW.

 

You can be a great father and a not so great husband. That may be why there are so many divorces. But, IMO, you can't be a great father and cheat on your kids mother. How does that help the kids. How awful are they going to feel when he leaves knowing he only stayed because of them? What a guilt trip he is setting them up for.

 

Also, when is a good time to leave? Isn't the family unit just as important when a kid goes to college, gets married, has kids of their own, etc.? Does parenting stop at the age of 18?

[Dexter Morgan]

You seem to have a justification for everything.

 

bah, no use herenow. she will accept a man that will string another woman along for his own selfish reasons only to drop a bomb on her later.

 

So Star can wait for this man...if you can call him that. In the end if they end up together, what she'll be getting is a cheater, liar, manipulator and abuser. Justice will be served and the wife will be free from such a "man".

[someday]

One thing that really, really irks me is the thought that the 'kids will adjust' to the divorce. Why should they need to adjust? Why should they suffer for you and their dad to get your way? Why should the kids be put into a situation- by their own father- to have to grow up before their time, to have to be resilient now, to have to adjust to a new woman in their father’s life?

 

We as adults, as parents, are suppose to make sure our children are taken care of in the best possible manner. We are supposed to teach them how to live successfully in whatever they chose. We are supposed to support their ultimate wellbeing. Just how are his actions showing that he’s doing this for his children? How is having an affair supporting his children?

 

I think it's just downright dirty and mean.

[2sure]

if his wife finds out about us again and leaves him and turns his kids against him. Or even if it's just that he doesn't get to see his kids on a daily basis anymore, well, then the thing(s) he fears most, all involving his kids, will have happened. So what I can't wrap my head around is this. He's not sure he wants to hurt his kids by leaving to be with me, but he's still carrying on the affair with me, which ultimately could end up hurting his kids anyway. This is the part that doesn't make sense to me.

 

Thats because it doesnt make sense. I am fine with not wanting to hurt his kids, I understand how you would be willing to wait for that.

 

But thats just not whats happening. He is more than willing to risk the sanity of his wife..which will affect the kids, more than willing to risk getting thrown out which will affect the kids, more than willing to risk being outed as a cheater and liar in front of his kids, willing to risk them times 2 since he already got caught, willing to beg & back pedal his way back into his marriage to stay after getting caught...

 

I'd say...uh, no. If he is willing to create that much heartache and risk regarding his relationship with his children...its not because he "wants to stay for the kids"

 

Wait for him, no problem, but dont think for a moment that thats the reason your waiting. People that are not willing to risk upsetting their children's lives, dont have affairs. Especially after they have been caught once.

 

People who are not willing to pay child support stay for the kids. And there IS a difference.

[piscis]

You seem to have a justification for everything. Please tell me how you justify what I said in my post.

 

IMO, a man who is so selfless that he would stay married to a woman he doesn't love for the sake of his kids isn't the kind of man who would have an affair. Especially if he loves another woman. That kind of man would be sensitive enough to his wife to know that he was robbing her of the true love she deserves.

 

Also, If his kids and their well-being are more important than his own happiness, he wouldn't be spending time with an OW.

 

You can be a great father and a not so great husband. That may be why there are so many divorces. But, IMO, you can't be a great father and cheat on your kids mother. How does that help the kids. How awful are they going to feel when he leaves knowing he only stayed because of them? What a guilt trip he is setting them up for.

 

Also, when is a good time to leave? Isn't the family unit just as important when a kid goes to college, gets married, has kids of their own, etc.? Does parenting stop at the age of 18?

 

 

herenow your words are fulled of wisdom.

Do you know when will be a good time to leave?NEVER, he will always find an excuse to stay and the sooner we realize this teh better.

 

I also agree that someone can be a great father and a lousy husband and by staying he is not allowing hsi W to find a man that really cares and loves her, and he is not teaching his children to be a man and stand up for what is right; and it is also very manipulative I mean he is using his kids as an excuse to stay in a M that does not work, what a burden for them and just because he is not brave enough to make a decision.

 

Believe me SB you do not want this man as a life companion, he is just not an honorable person to spend the rest of your life with

[piscis]

One thing that really, really irks me is the thought that the 'kids will adjust' to the divorce. Why should they need to adjust? Why should they suffer for you and their dad to get your way? Why should the kids be put into a situation- by their own father- to have to grow up before their time, to have to be resilient now, to have to adjust to a new woman in their father’s life?

 

We as adults, as parents, are suppose to make sure our children are taken care of in the best possible manner. We are supposed to teach them how to live successfully in whatever they chose. We are supposed to support their ultimate wellbeing. Just how are his actions showing that he’s doing this for his children? How is having an affair supporting his children?

 

I think it's just downright dirty and mean.

 

 

someday: you are completly right why should kids have to deal with this situation? The thing is this kids specially have a lousy father that instead of duing the adult thing is having an A with another woman and being disrespectful to the M and their mother.

IMO he is using his kids as an excuese to not leave the marriage becuase he is selfish if he is so concerned about his children he instead of using his free time with star bright will be planning father / children activities.

He is not that man.

I think he thinks that as long as he lives there his children would be fine

[Dexter Morgan]

One thing that really, really irks me is the thought that the 'kids will adjust' to the divorce. Why should they need to adjust? Why should they suffer for you and their dad to get your way?

 

so are you saying that if someone has been cheated on that they should stay in a marriage to a cheater and be miserable because of the kids?

 

I divorced my wife. No way was I going to stay with her be angry and/or depressed every day living with someone like that.

My kids are just fine. Better in fact. They now have a much happier dad. The flip side would have been a father who would have probably had to take Xanax had I stayed.

 

I know you are adressing the notion of a cheater forcing the divorce, but divorce is divorce. Is a betrayed spouse some kind of jerk for not wanting to stay with an untrustworthy POS?

 

 

 

We as adults, as parents, are suppose to make sure our children are taken care of in the best possible manner. We are supposed to teach them how to live successfully in whatever they chose. We are supposed to support their ultimate wellbeing. Just how are his actions showing that he’s doing this for his children? How is having an affair supporting his children?

 

I think it's just downright dirty and mean.

 

so its ok to string the wife along for so many years making her think everything is ok, only to dump her later and rob her of years she'll never get back?

[datura_noir]

Piscis, I love your avatar, it's beautiful! Where did you get it, if I may ask??

 

Regarding the staying for kids, most men are territorial by nature. That is, even if he were to leave, the thought of another man being in his ex-wife's and kids lives is a hard pill to swallow. He may wish to wait until the youngest is off legally because at that time any other man will not be such a hands-on step-parent. He will relate to his kids as young adults in a way he can't as children, I think men do better with kids at that age emotionally (just my opinion).

 

Don't discount the territorial thing; why do polygamist societies exist if not for the man to have different women to build his family? I'm not saying that he wants that, but even the thought of his (ex) wife sleeping with another might be kinda hard for him to contend with. Unless he is absolutely disgusted with her, he still has feelings for her.

 

I don't want to confuse you or be a Debbie Downer, just always good to hear the practical stuff. I get all my info on divorced dads from my husband; I trust his word.

[jj33]

Hmmm I don't think he wants full custody. He doesn't think his wife is a bad mother and in fact says she's a very good mother. He says if he leaves it makes the most sense for them to stay in the family house with her. He is afraid he won't get to see them much or she'll use the affair to turn them against him. I've told him, as you said, that she doesn't automatically get "most" of the custody just because she's the mother, and that they get some say and can stay pretty much wherever they want at their age or soon. I think the biggest issue is he just doesn't want to disrupt their daily lives and make things hard on them and have them be embarrassed by what people say. I understand this. He's also told me he's afraid to shake up the way things are in his own life, because he would miss seeing his kids every day. So to me he doesn't tell me these things just as an easy out but he tells me what he is honestly struggling with and I do understand. He wants his kids to be able to keep the family they know, which wouldn't be possible if he left to be with me.

 

Star what he is telling you is that he is still attached to the idea that they are a "happy family". Unless and until he feels that the marriage so lacks viability that he no longer sees them as a happy family he is not going to leave, no matter HOW old the children are.

 

The mother is fit. He doesnt want full custody. He could live nearby and see them alot, perhaps more but it would mean HE would be inconvenienced if he were the sold caretaker of the children for 1/2 the week or whatever period of time he shared custody.

 

He has the life he wants now. Great mother, wife who looks after the family, time with you. Being a single father is no easier than being a single mother, perhaps more difficult for some if they are not used to spending alot of time with the children when the W is not around.

 

So its not so much that the childrens' lives will change dramatically its that HIS life will change dramatically. And the marriage isnt so bad that he feels he needs to leave for his own well being.

 

I know this isnt what you want to hear but basically hes not a candidate for divorce.

[Capris]

Oh lord, im in such a similiar situation , SB. Im so happy to read this whole thread.

 

SB you are lucky you are in this A for not so long.

 

I dont know where to start from, i could only add to your questions SB.

My MM too, is saying he is staying for the kids and i too believe him and well, it makes sense. But i always wondered why is he spending so much time with me and not with his kids? I never stopped to think and put the puzzle together as much as i do latley.

I really like Dexter's point of view, cause he is the other side, and i dont have the chance to see that one often.

 

Of Course "staying for the kids" means staying for the kids, but also means "i dont want to change my happy life - how will it be with you?"

 

The thing i believe MM don't understand is that if THEY are happy, everyone else will be happy too. My MM is already on pills for depression and will be for life, especially if he doesnt do anything about it.

 

MM are used to their lives, im my sitch, its almost the only life he has ever known. His wife is a marvelous person, a great parent but as he claims, there just isnt any "couple" love anymore.(i could open a new topic over this thought...) I agree on him robbing his W of her good years. He too, though, has expressed that he wishes she would have an A, despite his dislikness if it occured...

 

All of this shows a coward man. A one afraid to step up for his rights and feelings and for his family's rights and feelings.

Or...does it show a man that has worked hard to continue what he started and just cant make it? Does it show a "weak" man cause he does consider others feelings but just doesnt know he is'nt handling them right?

 

Of course posters will jump at me and say the routine, "yeah and what did he think he was doing when he was screwing other women?" Thats too easy. Not that it cant apply, but still too easy.

 

Some people find it hard to step into another's shoes. This makes it hard to see the harm you are doing and ,on the other hand, hard to understand for examlple, the cheating man's side of the truth.

 

Yes, cheating-MM are ruining lots of lives but are they doing it on purpose? Did they know their M would be bad from day 1? Did they know they will meet another woman that means more to them? Do you really think they are doing this on purpose?So yes, they are awful, unhonourable, not to rely on sons of doggies. But they didnt get to this point in a minute..

As an OW, at least im free to come and go, he isnt. He has a family and has to suport it. He too needs support to make the right decisions.

 

As an OW im having a hard time trying to figure out what i want from an A, imagine to have to think about a half o dozen people along with it.

 

Anyways, my facts are : He is ruining his life, "robbing" his W's life and mine and probably setting a time bomb for his kids. Am i the best person to tell this to him? I want him (and me) to be happy. Should i give him this information or will it be considered pressure? And yes ofcourse he knows all this but sometimes you have to hear it out loud to understand. I dont think he talks to anyone about his A, so can i "break the news" on him?

And a totaly random question but : if the D-Day ever comes, i always thought it would be good for him to live alone for a while to get his stuff together and have some privacy, is that bad?

 

I hope i stayed on topic, i tend to chase butterflies .

 

ps my father had affairs when i was young (im guessing even before their marriage) i was the one to ask my dad at the age of 13 why they are not getting a divorce(i never found out about an affair till i was 23...so yes kids understand). I never hated my Father, even though my Mother was saying lots of bad stuff about him...so yes again, kids understand, dont hide.

 

They never did got a Divorce. Where did that get me as a child of a supposed-to-be-divorced couple? ....posting as an OW.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Capris

[someday]

Dexter, I'm not sure I'm doing the quote thingy right.

 

Quote:

so are you saying that if someone has been cheated on that they should stay in a marriage to a cheater and be miserable because of the kids?

 

 

I divorced my wife. No way was I going to stay with her be angry and/or depressed every day living with someone like that.

My kids are just fine. Better in fact. They now have a much happier dad. The flip side would have been a father who would have probably had to take Xanax had I stayed.

 

I know you are adressing the notion of a cheater forcing the divorce, but divorce is divorce. Is a betrayed spouse some kind of jerk for not wanting to stay with an untrustworthy POS?

 

 

No I’m not saying that. I stayed. For a lot of reasons. I don’t know your story so don’t know the level of betrayal. In my situations I don’t believe that my H could effectively co-parent with me, I haven’t much faith in him on his own as a parent. So I stay. I do love him, tho, so it’s not *just for the kids* but the kids are a motivation.

 

 

Quote:

 

so its ok to string the wife along for so many years making her think everything is ok, only to dump her later and rob her of years she'll never get back?

 

No, it’s not ok. It’s not an either/or situations because there are so many variables to consider. In one situation maybe it’s best to D, in another situation maybe it’s best to work it out, in other situations maybe it’s best to have an open M type of situation.

Ideally, there is NO affair. The parents do not open themselves up to be vulnerable to an affair.

[lilbunny]

Anyways, my facts are : He is ruining his life, "robbing" his W's life and mine and probably setting a time bomb for his kids. Am i the best person to tell this to him? I want him (and me) to be happy. Should i give him this information or will it be considered pressure? And yes ofcourse he knows all this but sometimes you have to hear it out loud to understand. I dont think he talks to anyone about his A, so can i "break the news" on him?

And a totaly random question but : if the D-Day ever comes, i always thought it would be good for him to live alone for a while to get his stuff together and have some privacy, is that bad?

 

 

I don't think it is a bad idea at all, I also suggested this and it gives everyone some breathing space.

 

I don't have children, my MM has no children, there are some complex issues revolving around all of that I won't get into, but I am personally quite removed from this and I honestly wouldn't like to say how that might have influenced things.

 

If one or both parents are genuinely unhappy, as Dexter did, I think the best thing for all concerned is two, seperate but happy parents.

For people who feel that there is something to salvage in the marriage then perhaps the children are an area of common ground and somewhere to start rebuilding, but I don't think there is much happiness in the long run if it is the only reason.

[Dexter Morgan]

regardless, kids will and do adjust. I know this for a fact.

[someday]

regardless, kids will and do adjust. I know this for a fact.

 

Yes, we all know that kids will adjust, everyone adjusts when needed. I'm not saying that you should have done anything differently...or anyone else for that matter...but I am saying that parents are supposed to put the well being of thier children first- above all others. That's my thoughts, not saying I'm right but that's what I believe.

 

We, my H and me, brought these children into this world. Things were sunny and roses then between him and I...life happens, **** happens, things change, love fades....and here we are. And it's not our children's fault that we ****ed things up between us. And our children shouldn't have to pay for our mess.

[Star_Bright]

Everyone has given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the forum's time.

 

From where I'm standing just because certain things make sense to me, and others don't, doesn't mean I'm trying to justify everything. Just trying to figure everything out.

[Dexter Morgan]

they wouldn't be paying for anyone's mess.

 

what do you think the kids would prefer:

 

1) a house with both parents at each other's throats and are miserable all the time?

 

or

 

2) being able to enjoy each parent seperately without drama and with happiness?

 

IMHO, option one would be the kids paying a price. having to deal with their parent's drama and tension in the house.

[someday]

Again, I'm going to have to say that it's not an either/or situation. Those are not the only two possible scenario’s that children will live.

 

In my situation my H loves me obsessively. He’s never going to let me go quietly, there would be war. So it’s better for me and for our kids for me to stay with him. Maybe someday he can get his chit together. For now, I do what I gotta do in the best interest of my children.

Edited August 27, 2010 by someday
adding information

[Dexter Morgan]

Again, I'm going to have to say that it's not an either/or situation. Those are not the only two possible scenario’s that children will live.

 

no, they are just the most likely. it happens, but I believe to be few and far between, that a happy marriage remains when one spouse went out and effed someone else.

 

If someone chooses to ignore that their spouse is an untrustworthy louse, then the facade can be put on where the kids don't know any different.

[someday]

They way I see it is that I totally and completely trust my H to be exactly who he is and I accept him for who he is. That's my choice. I can live with my choices because I always put a lot of thought into my decisions. This, IMHO, is the best decision for me, for my kids and for our family. It's not a facade, it's real and true and wholly ours.

[silktricks]

Understood. I don't know if she'd be vindictive or if he just fears this. I do know he greatly fears this.

 

The kids are teenagers. Does he really believe that his children are so shallow minded that his wife could turn them against him? Teenagers make up their own minds - and usually the harder a parent tries to sway them in a direction, the less likely they are to go there .

 

As for his wife being vindictive, well, maybe she would attempt to be; but that's why child custody laws are in place. The lawyers set up how the child custody will be handled. She doesn't get to use the children to hurt him. She doesn't get to say he can't see them, because the lawyers will have things set up so that he can.

 

I have never been able to buy that line about staying for the kids. If he was all that altruistic, he wouldn't be having an affair in the first place. After all, the time he spends with you is time he could be spending with the kids.

 

Maybe he loves you. But if he loves you, he doesn't love you enough.

[Dexter Morgan]

As for his wife being vindictive, well, maybe she would attempt to be; but that's why child custody laws are in place. The lawyers set up how the child custody will be handled. She doesn't get to use the children to hurt him. She doesn't get to say he can't see them, because the lawyers will have things set up so that he can.

 

oh, but telling the kids the truth is not against any child custody laws. If one spouse cheats and the child wants to know what happened, they can tell them, "your father slept with another woman". they are allowed to tell the truth.

 

Now if a mother were to say "your effing father, the scumbag he is, cheated on me and stuck his vienna sausage in another woman.....you should hate him for that"....then thats a different story.

[jennie-jennie]

The kids are teenagers. Does he really believe that his children are so shallow minded that his wife could turn them against him? Teenagers make up their own minds - and usually the harder a parent tries to sway them in a direction, the less likely they are to go there .

 

As for his wife being vindictive, well, maybe she would attempt to be; but that's why child custody laws are in place. The lawyers set up how the child custody will be handled. She doesn't get to use the children to hurt him. She doesn't get to say he can't see them, because the lawyers will have things set up so that he can.

 

I have never been able to buy that line about staying for the kids. If he was all that altruistic, he wouldn't be having an affair in the first place. After all, the time he spends with you is time he could be spending with the kids.

Maybe he loves you. But if he loves you, he doesn't love you enough.

 

Or there are other things more or as important to him as the love for a woman.

[silktricks]

oh, but telling the kids the truth is not against any child custody laws. If one spouse cheats and the child wants to know what happened, they can tell them, "your father slept with another woman". they are allowed to tell the truth.

 

Now if a mother were to say "your effing father, the scumbag he is, cheated on me and stuck his vienna sausage in another woman.....you should hate him for that"....then thats a different story.

 

Yeah, she could say that, but that goes back to actually being able to "turn kids away" when they are teenagers. Kids really are not stupid. They understand a lot more than they are given credit IMO, and they really don't like it when they can see (and they will) that someone is trying to manipulate them.

[Capris]

Maybe he loves you. But if he loves you, he doesn't love you enough.

 

I seriously doubt MM leaving their marriages has to do with how much they love their OW.

In fact if a MM leaves his W and underaged children for an OW just cause he loves her, well that shows lack of responsibility. Of course not doing so shows lack of responsibility from the OW's point of view.

 

So MM are trapped.

Give me a second here.

MM used to be single men with the dreams and hopes of all single men.

For various reasons, depending on the case each time, something went wrong,

For some, its the "evil" wife, her family.. for others maybe they married too young,maybe they were immature then and while growing realised they want different stuff. Tons of explanations of why a marriage can go wrong and having an affair is just the turn out of an unhappy marriage or a sign of an untrustworthy man from the beggining.

It's sad to see married people have to come to this point to start thinking of saving their marriage.

 

When i try to get in my MM's shoes the thing i think of is: what if i f**k up with my OW? I will lose everything. I have already ruined my marriage, the least i can do is to stick to it and work it out. And if they work it out, fine, just dont drag the OW in it.

 

So, yes the kids excuse is for to cover up other deeper problems, and using them for an excuse is harmfull, not for us OW but for him.

 

Just a thought.