She did it...

[TinaniT]

She had threatened and she did it. She attempted suicide. She did not succeed, thank God.

But oh dear lord.

 

 

Meanwhile, my "lovely" ex has been popping up at places he has no reason to be. And he has started being concerned with picking up his son for all the visitation, saying he wants to improve after his past mistakes... but then the other night when I was alone, he pushed his way in and started looking through my stuff-- saying he just wants to see where his son is living. With our past, I may not have been assertive enough. I still get kind of afraid when he gets like that. Not for my son, I don't believe he would hurt him, but for myself. My man was gone taking care of stuff from prior situation. He, of course, wants to confront XH now.

 

GAHHH!

 

My man is wonderful. My life outside these specific anchors is soo much better now.

 

But I swear I wish I could just run away with each other and the kids.

I'm not sure this is specifically tied to being former OW- as it is that we both were in very, very bad marriages...

 

But I think a little more of a cooling off period might possibly have helped.

I feel like my life is a friggin soap opera, with all the highs and lows. I know my love is feeling it, too. We actually fought the other day. Not a discussion, but a real fight. First one. Not because of what would be in our relationship with clean slates, but because of this external stuff that is far above and beyond normal or reasonable. It made me realize why so many OW/OM relationships fail... not for lack of love but for the world thrust at them.

Not saying ours will. We are committed to work it through, and we concluded our fight with that we are both in love with each other and committed to our lives and upcoming nuptuals as much as ever. But just sharing, since I have been sharing the ups and downs, successes and failures, all along, that this is DAMN hard!

 

His kids still like me, I think. I wonder if his ex thinks that this would change this. I think it was very clearly partly a powerplay, though he disagrees. If someone threatens unless they get what they want, it usually is. I had a lot more respect for the woman he described before seeing how she has behaved. No matter how hard it is *shrug* Perhaps I'm being callous here, perhaps I need to be (and I am happy she survived) - but I am thankful at least now she is getting some damn help. Because that just isn't normal. And I am pretty forgiving (how long was I with my ex despite him being abusive, those in glass houses and all) to bits of weakness in trying times.

[jj33]

Im so sorry to hear your news. Tina I know its a huge shock and makes no logical sense but you HAVE to try your best not to be callous.

 

Threatening suicide is a power play. Actually attempting it is a sign of severe depression or other psych problems. As you said this woman needs help and she is thankfully she is getting it.

 

She may be a drama queen she may be manipulative. But she is also in a very bad place psychologically. Something is broken inside her. Whether it was always that way or whether this is how she responded to this situatoin doesnt matter.

 

I can understand sort of how you would feel but I think you need to do your best to be compassionate and I suspect the depths of your compassion will be tested going forward. The less angry and impatient towards her you feel, the better you will feel about yourself after this saga is over (and that may take some time).

 

Hang in there

[jthorne]

Wow. Wow. I'm going to assume your lack of compassion for another human being is just due to the situation being so fresh.

 

I would urge to to take some time to try to put yourself in another's shoes. Think of how her children must feel. After all, you may someday be their step-mother. Surely you can muster some empathy for them.

 

Maybe after some time has passed, you can re-read your post to see just how callous it is to someone your love once cared for.

[TinaniT]

Im so sorry to hear your news. Tina I know its a huge shock and makes no logical sense but you HAVE to try your best not to be callous.

 

Threatening suicide is a power play. Actually attempting it is a sign of severe depression or other psych problems. As you said this woman needs help and she is thankfully she is getting it.

 

She may be a drama queen she may be manipulative. But she is also in a very bad place psychologically. Something is broken inside her. Whether it was always that way or whether this is how she responded to this situatoin doesnt matter.

 

I can understand sort of how you would feel but I think you need to do your best to be compassionate and I suspect the depths of your compassion will be tested going forward. The less angry and impatient towards her you feel, the better you will feel about yourself after this saga is over (and that may take some time).

 

Hang in there

 

You are absolutely right. Thank you.

 

It is hard for me to understand when she has four kids... the near neglect she was engaging in prior to this, then attempting to leave them. And she threatened weeks before, the "if you don't come back" just because her fiance or whatever left her.

Relates to something someone close to me did, as well, and I see how much it is hurting my love and his sweet kids so I'm probably being far rougher than I would be to a stranger on the street, which isn't really fair either.

 

But no excuse for me to be selfish about how hard my situation is and ignoring how hard of a time she must be having to do that, too. Thanks for the splash of water.

[jj33]

T didnt mean to be harsh. Of course you dont want him and the kids to hurt and to be caught in the middle and you dont need this when you are getting your new life together in order.

 

But look deep within yourself. She will appreciate it in years to come as will he and the children. Most of all you will be proud of yourself.

 

Doing the right thing is difficult sometimes but its the right thing and I know you will do it.

 

Take good care

[pureinheart]

You are absolutely right. Thank you.

 

It is hard for me to understand when she has four kids... the near neglect she was engaging in prior to this, then attempting to leave them. And she threatened weeks before, the "if you don't come back" just because her fiance or whatever left her.

Relates to something someone close to me did, as well, and I see how much it is hurting my love and his sweet kids so I'm probably being far rougher than I would be to a stranger on the street, which isn't really fair either.

 

But no excuse for me to be selfish about how hard my situation is and ignoring how hard of a time she must be having to do that, too. Thanks for the splash of water.

 

Hi TT,

 

I am so sorry concerning all of you, and FTR, you are in shock also...it's just hard on everyone concerned, especially the kids.

 

I remember my mother used to talk about dying at 44 (this was her fear), because her mother died at that age when she was 10...this traumatised her severely...well her saying this put fear into me that I would loose my mother soon...she didn't do this on purpose, she lacked knowledge concerning trauma and must have walked in it the majority of her life...anyway with his exW actually trying to take her own life, I can only imagine.

 

I know there is only so much you can do, although I would insist on her getting continued IC through her exH, with the kids being the reason.

 

You are thinking on a logical level and cannot logically understand this...she is operating on fear of many things, one of them which is obvious is being alone...you all have my thoughts and prayers, and healing for his exW...

[whichwayisup]

It is hard for me to understand when she has four kids...

 

And I'm sure it is and HAS been hard on HER wondering why her husband would cheat on her and betray the family unit. He let down FOUR children. Instead of just divorcing before cheating, he had an affair and ruined her life, changed the kids lives forever.

 

People do crazy things when pushed past their emotional limit. You entered into an affair and noone can predict the outcome except innocent people get hurt. Some can handle it better than others, some can't. Don't judge his wife. Have sympathy, have respect - EVEN MORE SO since you are around HER kids. I'm sure it isn't easy for her knowing that you are playing stepmom to the kids, so ease up and give her a break. Instead of hating her, putting her down, have empathy and imagine if YOU had four kids and your H cheated on you, left you for the OW. I'm sure you wouldn't be singing and shouting happiness and handle it perfectly.

[OWoman]

((((hugs)))) Tina.

 

Don't apologise for your need to vent - better here in an anonymous space than somewhere where your SO or his kids may be affected. Feelings of anger around suicide and attempted suicide are normal. There is nothing mean or nasty about you for having them.

[jwi71]

((((hugs)))) Tina.

 

Don't apologise for your need to vent - better here in an anonymous space than somewhere where your SO or his kids may be affected. Feelings of anger around suicide and attempted suicide are normal. There is nothing mean or nasty about you for having them.

 

I have a very different take on this and those who say Tina needs to create some space and distance are right.

 

I hope you realize that his W will use this as a wedge against you concerning the children - and everyone else. Lets face it, OW do not have the greatest of reputations to begin with and when you add "she (the OW) drove me to near suicide"...well, expect a growing chasm between you and the kids. Which will clearly negatively affect your R with your MM. This is already a bumpy ride for you and it will get even worse. The world is going to know about you and why (you) she did this.

 

Secondly, I was also struck by a tone, accidental or otherwise, of indignation that she dare do this. Why on Earth are you venting about his W attempting suicide?

 

Answer: It interferes with your plans.

 

And that is just wrong on about every level I can think of.

[NancyBotwin]

I had a friend that attempted suicide. I pray that none of your friends or family ever find themselves in such a desperate situation that suicide is an option for them. Trust me, it's a very dark place to be.

Edited August 29, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[TinaniT]

The world is going to know about you and why (you) she did this..

 

1. A person does not attempt suicide because someone else. That is a personal decision. I have been through a lot in my life. I have been raped, I have been emotionally and physically hurt by people I care about, I have lost people I love to death (including suicide), and more that I just won't go into. I did not try to kill myself. And if I had, it wouldn't have been after I had children who rely on me.

 

2. She was fine immediately after when she got straight away engaged to her OM who had been in the picture far, far longer than I had. Was fine until he realized what she was like, her depressive states and ignoring the home and children, and left. Then, alone, she begs her ex husband (my love) to come back. He does not. She attempts suicide.

 

I think the issues preceded me and even if they hadn't you cannot blame suicide on someone else. And suicide when you have children is selfish. You can be in a dark place and not see that, but it is, and threatening weeks before and refusing for years to get help - despite how it impacts the kids, yeah I suppose that angers me a bit.

[TinaniT]

((((hugs)))) Tina.

 

Don't apologise for your need to vent - better here in an anonymous space than somewhere where your SO or his kids may be affected. Feelings of anger around suicide and attempted suicide are normal. There is nothing mean or nasty about you for having them.

 

Thank you. It really was a vent. It's just frustrating because I know how long my ex tried to get her help and then these wild swings feel so unpredictable-- and meanwhile, I know how hurt her kids are. His youngest daughter, the one that took to me the most, called me crying. Called asking if she could come stay with me because she's afraid and because she thought it was her fault. This is the sweetest little girl I've ever met and I hate so much to see children hurt. And I remember the feelings after someone very close to me succeeded at suicide and how it felt. Ughhh.

Naturally, as she is not my friend, although someone I wish no harm on, my sympathies lie more with my love and his children... and I'm sure that came across and I do think the first reply was right that I need to step back and be more sympathetic to her as well.

[Silly_Girl]

Tina, I think your existence has contributed to this, yes. But that does NOT mean it's your fault, or that you should take more burden on your shoulders. This is life, these things do happen. The poor woman needs help, and compassion, and kindness. And anything you can do to assist with that (without being visible) would be great. Otherwise, you look out for you and yours and do the best you can by those you love.

[jj33]

Tina that is heartbreaking. They are very lucky to have you in their lives. It will be a storm but you know that. And you will get through it.

 

Take good care

[jwi71]

1. A person does not attempt suicide because someone else. That is a personal decision. I have been through a lot in my life. I have been raped, I have been emotionally and physically hurt by people I care about, I have lost people I love to death (including suicide), and more that I just won't go into. I did not try to kill myself. And if I had, it wouldn't have been after I had children who rely on me.

 

2. She was fine immediately after when she got straight away engaged to her OM who had been in the picture far, far longer than I had. Was fine until he realized what she was like, her depressive states and ignoring the home and children, and left. Then, alone, she begs her ex husband (my love) to come back. He does not. She attempts suicide.

 

I think the issues preceded me and even if they hadn't you cannot blame suicide on someone else. And suicide when you have children is selfish. You can be in a dark place and not see that, but it is, and threatening weeks before and refusing for years to get help - despite how it impacts the kids, yeah I suppose that angers me a bit.

 

I'm sorry as I wasn't clear in what I was trying to say...that's on me.

 

What I was trying to say is:

 

She will tell everyone YOU drove her to suicide. Including the kids. That's what I meant by "you being the reason". You will now not only be the OW but the one who drove her to suicide. Argue what you will but that's a double-whammy most of society will hear and believe.

[BB07]

TinaniT,

You didn't really owe us the details of the whys and what's of what happened, but I can certainly understand why you felt defensive and wanted to explain further. Perhaps in the future, some posters should be a little more compassionate and not so quick to point a finger.

 

Hugs to you Tinani and I'm sorry that so many people are being affected by this.

 

(sorry about the bolded post, could not turn it off. )

[BB07]

I'm sorry as I wasn't clear in what I was trying to say...that's on me.

 

What I was trying to say is:

 

She will tell everyone YOU drove her to suicide. Including the kids. That's what I meant by "you being the reason". You will now not only be the OW but the one who drove her to suicide. Argue what you will but that's a double-whammy most of society will hear and believe.

 

You don't know this with an absolute certainty. You aren't privy to the inside workings of anyone's mind, especially someone that you know nothing about, other than some little piece of info that you read here.

 

What is it........with all these absolutes lately?

[bentnotbroken]

1. A person does not attempt suicide because someone else. That is a personal decision. I have been through a lot in my life. I have been raped, I have been emotionally and physically hurt by people I care about, I have lost people I love to death (including suicide), and more that I just won't go into. I did not try to kill myself. And if I had, it wouldn't have been after I had children who rely on me.

 

2. She was fine immediately after when she got straight away engaged to her OM who had been in the picture far, far longer than I had. Was fine until he realized what she was like, her depressive states and ignoring the home and children, and left. Then, alone, she begs her ex husband (my love) to come back. He does not. She attempts suicide.

 

I think the issues preceded me and even if they hadn't you cannot blame suicide on someone else. And suicide when you have children is selfish. You can be in a dark place and not see that, but it is, and threatening weeks before and refusing for years to get help - despite how it impacts the kids, yeah I suppose that angers me a bit.

 

 

You are very right. NO one attempts suicide because of someone else. It would never be anyone else's fault. But there can be contributing circumstances at the hands of others(one such example is bullying in school) There is a pre existing condition that can be exacerbated by outside forces.

 

Knowing the dept of the depression isn't always as easy as people think it is. Recognizing there is a problem doesn't mean you know the extent of the problem or think it can be so deep seeded, especially when one isn't educated about mental health issues. I don't speak about your situation but from my own experience. I too thought it was cowards way out when one of my student's parent committed suicide. I thought it was the cowards way out until I was on the threshold of suicide. You do not think rationally. You do not perceive things the way they really are. I as a parent thought my children would be better off without me. They would have my insurance and I would be out of their lives with my mood swings.

 

Did Mr. Messy cause me to plan my suicide...nope. Did his actions push me in that direction of wanting to leave the current life I was living...yes...along with the death of my parent, the bills, the stress and my own physical illnesses. It was too much, overwhelming. I felt as if I were drowning. I thought I was keeping up with parenting, cleaning and other duties...I wasn't. Unless you are in that tunnel of hellified darkness and overwhelming guilt, fear and anger....you have no idea.

 

It angers me when people assume because they had the hard times and was able to cope, everyone should be able to cope. NO one is immune to hard times in life, but not everyone chemically healthy enough to deal with problems in a constructive way. So in my selfishness I planned to die, after years of up and down living. It took someone outside of the situation and who to fight for her mental health to get me where I needed to be. Mr. Messy told me he knew something was wrong for years, but he used it to go sleep around, for years...so yes, his contribution to the my poor decision was just one of many.

[Silly_Girl]

It angers me when people assume because they had the hard times and was able to cope, everyone should be able to cope. NO one is immune to hard times in life, but not everyone chemically healthy enough to deal with problems in a constructive way.

 

Fab quote Bent, something that often gets lost I think.

[whichwayisup]

It angers me when people assume because they had the hard times and was able to cope, everyone should be able to cope. NO one is immune to hard times in life, but not everyone chemically healthy enough to deal with problems in a constructive way.

 

Very true. Everybody is different and reacts/handles crisis's differently. Throw in depression and anxiety, or just basic coping skills (some don't have, some do) that has an affect too.

 

Thank you for your post B. It's something that needed to be said..And nicely put too.

[Hazyhead]

It's hard to understand depression unless you've been affected by it. I know you certainly don't mean to add to her trauma, but it can be frustrating when you feel that others think it for attention. Sometimes the attempt, or thought, of suicide isn't necessarily a desire to end life and hurt everyone but just for the pain to stop. It's not something you rationally think through, because rationality has left you; all you desire is peace. It's a tricky, tricky situation and I'm sorry you're all going through this.

 

Excellent post, BNB.

[TinaniT]

There's not much I can say.

My first reaction upon hearing was, Oh no - Thank God she is okay- and I'm glad she can get the help she needs.

 

 

As I listened to her little girl cry, remembered past experiences as a person left behind, I did get angry. I can't defend that, I did. That is what I was trying to explain later, what came across in my earlier post. As I said, the first poster was right and I needed to step back to my more compassionate first reaction. Past experiences colour reactions, and relationships colour sympathies, and that happened here, too. And I am frustrated that she would go that route over being alone, not even for love but just without A man in her life... that she would do it so that her children find her, and I did wonder, have doubts whether it was sincere when she did it how she did (pills half an hour before kids due home from school). Not pretty emotions or thoughts, I will concede, but true.

 

 

And just to clear one thing up... I mentioned my past experiences to say that NO ONE can make another person take their lives. That is internal, not external. You can't say an experience drives someone to it. A well adjusted happy person does not go from that to suicide over an experience even a very bad one.

 

I will try to be more compassionate and thank you for the reminder. I was letting my concerns of my love and how he is feeling, and the kids and how they are feeling, overcome my better nature and what is the best course of action in this scenario.

 

I could apologize, but I just can't bring myself to... That is, I would not have brought up how this affected to me to anyone involved in the situation. Their needs and this is more important now. But yet, I can't control the chain of reactions and emotions - the noble ones and the disgusting little inner ones, that I vented here. Perhaps I am not the best person I could be, and I will accept that I should strive more in that direction... but I also will forgive myself weakness in that and in expressing some of those out in what seems a safer environment to do so.

 

I am very glad those who have been to that dark place who told their tales got through to the other side.

Edited August 29, 2010 by TinaniT

[jj33]

Tina hang in there. You were venting the things you couldnt possibly say to your SO or his children or probably to most anyone in your life right now. That doesnt make you less of a good person. It makes you honest. When people die no matter what the circumstance, there is anger among the survivors. Its a normal human emotion. The same applies when people attempt suicide as unfair as that is to the person who is so very troubled.

 

The important thing is that you are stronger and bigger than the negative emotions this has raised within you and will be empathetic and supportive towards this woman who needs your empathy and support even if she doesnt see you until months after this has passed.

[Ellin]

1. A person does not attempt suicide because someone else. That is a personal decision. I have been through a lot in my life. I have been raped, I have been emotionally and physically hurt by people I care about, I have lost people I love to death (including suicide), and more that I just won't go into. I did not try to kill myself. And if I had, it wouldn't have been after I had children who rely on me.

 

2. She was fine immediately after when she got straight away engaged to her OM who had been in the picture far, far longer than I had. Was fine until he realized what she was like, her depressive states and ignoring the home and children, and left. Then, alone, she begs her ex husband (my love) to come back. He does not. She attempts suicide.

 

I think the issues preceded me and even if they hadn't you cannot blame suicide on someone else. And suicide when you have children is selfish. You can be in a dark place and not see that, but it is, and threatening weeks before and refusing for years to get help - despite how it impacts the kids, yeah I suppose that angers me a bit.

Much of what you've written here could be my own words. I've had my share of trauma and felt like I couldn't get through the next minute at times but I kept battling on and since having children I drag myself out of bed every morning no matter what, and the thought of them being left without me in any way for any reason brings terror to my heart, especially as they're so young.

 

It's true, too, that no one makes another commit suicide and that some attempts are not genuine but a "cry for help" or manipulation and attention seeking. I don't know this woman and perhaps she's going through unbearable pain, but from your description she sounds rather destructive and it's hard to know how to react to this kind of people.

 

I suspect that a part of you being angry is because you're trying to protect yourself from feeling guilty. This, beside anger, is also a normal reaction to anyone's suicide and you are in a very sensitive place in all this.

 

But I'm glad that you are strong and bright and cope well and I'm sure you will get through this together. You make a big effort to make things work out and you are concerned for everyone involved. You're not responsible for actions of people who do not try to get help.

 

Take care, you'll be all right.

Hugs!

[Fallen Angel]

Tina,

 

I am sure that I will take a beating for this, but I really do not have much sympathy/empathy for this woman.

 

I think suicide/attempted suicide is cowardly and cruel and manipulative.

 

Yes, manipulative!!

 

In fact, my former mother in law (now deceased) did manage to kill herself, but it was all in an attempt to manipulate her family.

 

She was a drama QUEEN (with a HUGEASS crown!!) and got upset because her children for the first time decided that they wanted to celebrate their mother's day with their own families rather than all gather at her home and kiss her behind all day like they had done each year prior (at her insistance). When the kids (all grown and with at LEAST three children each of their own decided that they wanted to provide days of pleasure for their own wives rather than cowtowing to their mother, she took a crap-ton of Tylenol-PMs. Less than twenty minutes later she herself called the ambulance to come and get her. She intended to have her stomach pumped and be fine, while giving her children a huge guilt trip!!! She did get her stomach pumpmed, and she was fine.. but not really. What she had done was ingested enough toxic acetaminophen that she damaged her liver and spent the next eight months dying.

 

She admitted to all that she never really intended to die or to truly injure herself, before she died. At least she was finally able to release her children from the guilt they were all feeling. It was the one giving gesture she ever offered to any of them.

 

So, yes, vent away. I do not think any less of you for the anger and frustration you are feeling, and despite what anyone here may say, I am certain that your anger stems from the pain you are witnessing your love and his children suffer from this womans selfish act! That is empathy for the deserving parties.

 

Carry on!