A MM's perspective

[BHMM]

"I can barely figure out how to get through my day".....a lot of truth in that. The telling or not telling part, you have decided, and it is done for now, it doesn't mean that circumstances may change or that you will eventually tell her. Sometimes I think the weight of carrying around the secret is my just punishment for what I have done.

Exactly. It's not like I've never considered telling W about the A, or completely dismissed the idea of telling her in the future. It's just not in my immediate plans.

 

I also agree with carrying the weight of the secret, very well said.

[Mimolicious]

Whoa! This is seriously O.O.C... (dizzy)

 

Glancing through I saw that GEL said this:

 

So-so sounds like your life motto. I personally think your OW is lucky she doesn't have to deal with you anymore. No one wants so-so when they can have superior.

 

Now I have to say this:

 

I pity your W. That lives in a bogus M and this is why:

 

"I lied a lot"- BHMM0 Circa 2010. How fabulous!

 

I was married to a liar just like you. You would actually do your W a favor by leaving her, just like you did your OW a favor. In reality, the problem resides in your head. Just because you are not lying about where you really go when you are saying you are getting a "haircut" for 5 hrs, doesn't mean that you are not living a lie.

 

How can you love and respect another person, when you are not even offering this to yourself? Your "good daddy" facade is only going to stretch for so long. Kids are not stupid and they grow to be even wiser. You are temporarily lying to your family but eternally lying to yourself.

 

The truth would come out, eventually. Poor W of yours. Yes, in fact your OW is lucky to not have to deal with you.

 

Very early on you said "Life partner". That is actually what realistic people look for. Your W doesn't have one in you.

 

You have your own issues. Cater to tending them, before you can move on to the next level. Your M- is not chipped or cracked, is shattered!

Your W just doesn't know. So sad.

 

Sorry to keep it gully but your don't deserve to have any of these 2 lovely ladies.

 

I am sorry that you are faced with such a tough scenario but life is what you make it. Be blessed.

[BHMM]

Actually, this is why I asked the question. The fact that you don't HAVE specifics is the telling point. (Not slamming you here...just making the observation that you CAN'T re-invest in your marriage without making it a concentrated effort with specifics.)

 

I have some recommendations. The first one I have to offer is one that I know you'll refuse...so I won't dwell on it, but I personally feel that it's the most critical, and the most needed thing to have a SUCCESSFUL recovery.

 

1. Tell your wife about the affair. Let her know what you've been through, and make it clear how needed it is for your marriage to improve. (Yep, this is the one I knew you wouldn't like. )

 

2. Seek marriage counseling with someone who can help open the blocked/closed communication between you and your wife. Someone who can help you identify the gaps, and come up with ways to address them.

 

3. Start "courting" your wife again, just as you did years ago. (and as you did with OW as well) I know you're not going to be fully into this at first, but the heart often follows the actions. Once the two of you begin having fun on dates/activities/etc...it'll open the chance for the love to rebuild between you.

 

4. Actively work on improving the communications...work on paying more attention to her, and communicating more to her.

 

5. There are a couple of good books...I'd suggest reading "20 (Suprisingly Simple!) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage" by Dr Steve Stephens. Also "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman.

 

Start with this. Build from it with other things tailored to your own situation.

 

But the biggest thing is open, honest communication. How you get that without telling her the truth...I don't know.

 

I wish you the best of luck. Give me a shout if you have any interest in any other advice from me.

Wow, thanks for all the information Owl, I really appreciate it. I will take your advice (except #1) to heart.

[BHMM]

I'm just wondering if you would keep lying to W if she asked you what was wrong, or if there was anything wrong. Would you come clean then, or still deny it? I'm asking because this was the reason I couldn't possibly stay with stbxH. Even when I confronted him several times, he insisted that there was NC. To me the A itself was bad enough, but the aftermath and how he handled it showed me how much disrespect he really had for me. There's almost nothing that could hurt a BW more, IMO.

 

Your situation is different, because you had no Dday. I understand that. But lying by omitting is not much different from lying, as far as respect and valuing the M are concerned.

I wouldn't admit it if she asked. There (hopefully) is no aftermath, because it's over and nearly 3 months into NC, I don't see either of us (OW or me) going back. I know people backslide, but trust me when I say it's over.

 

I agree about the lies of omission.

[BHMM]

BHMM... I totally support you in NOT telling your wife..

 

What would that pain to her bring you and her.. nothing.. except it would ruin any chance for you to work on your M...

 

Not all truth is good to say.. some councillor would discourage you from confessing.. you would hurt her.. and chances are.. your kids would find out.. what good would that bring to the family.. they do not deserve that..

 

Never mind the people who tell you to confess.. they are not in your shoes.. they don't know your story.. your wife.. etc.. (what if your W goes ballistic, in a deep depression, etc..)..

 

Not good.. stand by your beliefs..

Thanks for the reinforcement Lizzie. It's hard to hear so much contrary advice and keep thinking you're doing the right thing.

 

Thanks again.

[BHMM]

BHMM, whatever you do, do it with all your might. If you are trying to rebuild your M, put your all into it, and do NOT listen to naysayers. If you decide, over time, that you cannot rebuild your M and you want to be with your OW, then do so with respect and honesty.

Thanks donna, this is exactly what I'm trying to do.

[Lizzie60]

BHMM.. don't worry... do what you think is BEST in YOUR case..

 

It's easy for anonymous people on a forum like this to say.. 'hey.. wtf.. just leave her.. tell her.. throw everything you got through the window, you don't deserve to be happy again, blablabla...' ignore them..

[whichwayisup]

I wouldn't admit it if she asked. There (hopefully) is no aftermath, because it's over and nearly 3 months into NC, I don't see either of us (OW or me) going back. I know people backslide, but trust me when I say it's over.

 

I agree about the lies of omission.

 

You mean that if you wife point blank asked you "Have you cheated on me and having an affair/had an affair" you would deny it?

 

All I can say is, own your choices. Don't gaslight your wife. Don't make her feel like shes' the crazy one and insecure when you reject her expectation of honesty from you if/when she asks you if you have cheated on her.

 

Better to come clean and own it all, show remorse and atleast everything is out in the open. To lie, to hide, to deny, pretend all is okay WILL come back and bite you in the "you know where" someday.

[silktricks]

I, agree, too. There are many different kinds of loves. As the years go by, the history of their lives, and their children, will be their bond and the love they share.

 

Is it possible that you do not understand how belittling and rude this is to those of us who have recovered marriages? But it does show how little you understand...

[xxoo]

BHMM, since you have decided to stay, I think you need to ask yourself: What kind of marriage do I want with my wife?

 

Do you want the same sort of "good enough" marriage that resulted in you having an affair?

 

Or do you want a real love affair with your wife?

 

If you want the real love affair, you need a whole "new" marriage. You need to start from scratch, with honesty, openness, and a desire for true intimacy. That starts with being honest about the affair.

 

If you want the marriage to survive, but don't care if it truly thrives, you may be better off not telling. But I believe you will continue to be vulnerable to affairs with a continuation of that level of (non)intimacy.

[BHMM]

 

I agree with SG, BHMM, and things that are swept under the rug often come out from under when least expected and they can bite very hard indeed.

 

The affair could come out at in time, soon or years down the road. 3 years is a long, long time and I suspect your wife knew and still knows something is wrong. For all you know, she may already have evidence of such. Just because you think you successfully kept the affair secret, doesn't mean that it will remain that way. Your wife may have a few secrets of her own. It's possible that she is already so suspicious that she might have even installed a key logger on your computer and she knows what you are doing RIGHT NOW, at this very minute. Also you never know........your OW may get so angry with you, that she might decide to tell your wife, it can and does happen. If you've been hanging out at LS, you know this is a possibility. It's even possible that she is already here and posting.

 

Have you thought about this, really considered how much more damage could be done by trying to keep a secret that might not be able to be kept long term? You need to think about this long and hard, even though you don't want to.

You're right, she's probably suspicious, she may already know. OW might reveal it to her. I've considered all of this, and if something happens, it happens. I'm taking my chances that nothing will.

[jj33]

Great post WWIU.

 

BH you have given us a rare opportunity by posting. So many men who have affairs fit your "profile" they dont get caught, they stay in their marriages and try to make the best of it. But few of them post, hence the incredible interest in your thread.

 

If you were remorseful you would get a lot of support. You are to coin a phrase an "unapologetic MM". And its interesting to hear your thought process.

 

As for your being absent in the marriage, people are mentally absent all the time due to jobs, hobbies etc. And like an A, those are for the lucky, that is a choice (eg., you dont have to be MD of a big bank, you dont have to be the best golfer or tennis player etc). The difference is you checked out with someone else and had an EA/PA which breaks more "rules".

 

Curious as to how you are going to handle your ennui? And I say that assuming there must have been some degree of ennui or the A would never have happened. Im fond of saying people learn to keep it zipped in kindergarten, finding love with the OW in and of itself doesnt cause you to have an A. Im sure you have successfully resisted temptation in the past.

 

You havent yet regained your passion for your marriage and open question whether you will. For your sake I hope you do otherwise its a very lonely road you have chosen for both you and your wife. Its not uncommon for people in your situation to find new ways of distracting themselves from the marriage that they are fighting so hard not to leave.

[strawberrysprinkles]

Please read this and pay special attention to a person named "stampdaddy."

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223067

[TOWinNYC]

BHMM-

Wow, I don't check in on LS for a few days and a thread like this mushrooms up!

 

First, I would ALSO like to thank you for starting this thread. I read the whole thing and your original post provides a much needed perspective here on the OW/OM forum.

 

Even someone like me, who knows to my core that my SO loves me – gets a little rattled hearing the incessant, perpetual yammering of “he doesn’t love you, you’re just a piece of a**” nasty mantra that gets doled out around here (even when it’s not directed towards me).

 

So I can imagine how much worse it must be for all the OW who are hurting and trying to heal and move on with their lives to have to hear the bitter brigade spout off. It’s important, I think, for them to realize there are MM who really LOVED their OW….and they just couldn’t leave. While your situation isn’t everybody else’s, it still shows that there was one OW who was truly loved and cherished and important in the life of a MM.

 

Please ignore the people who don’t think you’re “real” – you and I both know why things like that are said. God forbid a MM actually LOVE their OW from the bottom of their heart!

 

As for those hammering into you about “specifics of what you’re doing to make your M better”….well, it’s just my two cents but I think you should ignore those post for now. Like you said, it should be good enough that you’ve done the right thing, ended the A and you’re there with your family. For now.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds to me like you had what I call “the magic” with your OW. My sincerest hope for you is that you’ll be able to find the same kind of magic with your W someday – and if not, that the choices you have made will be enough for you in the future.

 

Good luck.

[BHMM]

Yes, actually, I do. Especially the significant crushes and fantasies (maybe not all the tiny, passing ones). That is how you keep your partner the primary recipient of your intimacy: you share your intimate thoughts with her, and only her.

 

Your marriage will remain vulnerable to repeat affairs if you continue to keep secrets about these things.

Good one you then, as you are one of the rare M couples that do that.

[Snowflower]

Exactly. It's not like I've never considered telling W about the A, or completely dismissed the idea of telling her in the future. It's just not in my immediate plans.

 

I also agree with carrying the weight of the secret, very well said.

 

Yes, you do carry the weight of the secret right now and maybe you consider that your penance for what you did. IMO, that is not nearly enough.

 

There have been a few posts to the effect of, "well if my H had an affair and had ended it well then I wouldn't want to know." Or, "most of my friends have said that as long as their husbands come home to them, they don't need to know what extra-curricular activities he has."

 

Unfortunately none of these friendly, helpful posters are your wife.

 

I know this will likely fall on deaf ears, but I was where your wife is now. My H had an affair and kept it from me for a few months (not years, like in your situation). I had no idea because I trusted him. My H did something that I later realized was unusual and came clean clean with me, yes, he confessed on his own.

 

I won't even go into all the pain and the fallout afterward because it is not important here. But I will say that my respect for him as a man remained intact despite of what he did.

 

We are still together and have a stronger marriage than ever because he confessed. I'm not sure we would have made it otherwise because my respect and faith in him would have been too diminished.

 

His confession saved our marriage. Maybe it would save yours too. Unless, deep down you don't want to save your marriage? (not bashing, just food for thought)

 

Anyway, my .02. I won't pester your thread again unless you have a specific question for me.

[BHMM]

Good Luck to you BH. I know how something like this tugs at your heartstrings. I've been there. Many have said TIME WILL HEAL - That is 100% true.

Thanks confused, I really appreciate it.

[herenow]

I know this will likely fall on deaf ears, but I was where your wife is now. My H had an affair and kept it from me for a few months (not years, like in your situation). I had no idea because I trusted him. My H did something that I later realized was unusual and came clean clean with me, yes, he confessed on his own.

 

I won't even go into all the pain and the fallout afterward because it is not important here. But I will say that my respect for him as a man remained intact despite of what he did.

 

We are still together and have a stronger marriage than ever because he confessed. I'm not sure we would have made it otherwise because my respect and faith in him would have been too diminished.

 

His confession saved our marriage. Maybe it would save yours too. Unless, deep down you don't want to save your marriage? (not bashing, just food for thought)

 

Anyway, my .02. I won't pester your thread again unless you have a specific question for me.

 

OK, I'll be the pest. Had my H lied to me on d-day about anything and I found out later, we would be divorced now. The affair was painful but a true wake up call to both of us. Both of us worked to make our marriage work. Both of us committed to full transparency. Both of us went to MC and IC. Both of us realized that we had taken each other for grated. Both of us created a new and stronger marriage.

 

How can all that be done when one person has no idea what the true reality is? Your wife doesn't even know what is broken to able to do the work to fix it. If she does know it's broken, she doesn't know how broken it really is. You aren't giving her the tools she needs to be able to fix anything. JMO.

[desertIslandCactus]

Whoa! This is seriously O.O.C... (dizzy)

 

Glancing through I saw that GEL said this:

 

 

 

Now I have to say this:

 

I pity your W. That lives in a bogus M and this is why:

 

"I lied a lot"- BHMM0 Circa 2010. How fabulous!

 

I was married to a liar just like you. You would actually do your W a favor by leaving her, just like you did your OW a favor. In reality, the problem resides in your head. Just because you are not lying about where you really go when you are saying you are getting a "haircut" for 5 hrs, doesn't mean that you are not living a lie.

 

How can you love and respect another person, when you are not even offering this to yourself? Your "good daddy" facade is only going to stretch for so long. Kids are not stupid and they grow to be even wiser. You are temporarily lying to your family but eternally lying to yourself.

 

The truth would come out, eventually. Poor W of yours. Yes, in fact your OW is lucky to not have to deal with you.

 

Very early on you said "Life partner". That is actually what realistic people look for. Your W doesn't have one in you.

 

You have your own issues. Cater to tending them, before you can move on to the next level. Your M- is not chipped or cracked, is shattered!

Your W just doesn't know. So sad.

 

Sorry to keep it gully but your don't deserve to have any of these 2 lovely ladies.

 

I am sorry that you are faced with such a tough scenario but life is what you make it. Be blessed.

 

 

MM most certainly Does deserve his Wife. She is his Wife, and He is Hers. And they Deserve their marriage, more than ever.

 

MM has repented, that's what people do. They are sorry for past actions and rebuild their lives. And they Can.

 

(you are quoting a voice of discouragement on here who succeeded in getting an MM to leave his wife and marry her)

[Mia Mia]

BHMM, since you have decided to stay, I think you need to ask yourself: What kind of marriage do I want with my wife?

 

Do you want the same sort of "good enough" marriage that resulted in you having an affair?

 

Or do you want a real love affair with your wife?

 

If you want the real love affair, you need a whole "new" marriage. You need to start from scratch, with honesty, openness, and a desire for true intimacy. That starts with being honest about the affair.

 

If you want the marriage to survive, but don't care if it truly thrives, you may be better off not telling. But I believe you will continue to be vulnerable to affairs with a continuation of that level of (non)intimacy.

 

 

I agree 100% my H and I are very open and honest with each other.We have learned keeping serets solves no problem we are having in our M.

[Lizzie60]

I agree 100% my H and I are very open and honest with each other.We have learned keeping serets solves no problem we are having in our M.

 

 

No one can be 100% sure EVER that their partner is 100% honest with them.. that goes both ways...

 

NO ONE knows FOR SURE unless they are siamese twins..

[terrific]

I found this helpful.

 

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1820942,00.html

[woinlove]

. Do you all tell your spouse about every crush you develop, about your fantasies, about the coworker you flirt with?

 

Yes, definitely, and I wouldn't want to be in a M that didn't share. But that's just what works for us. I can understand other people preferring a less intimate M, but settling for an M with deceit is giving up a lot. I both want to be loved for who I actually am and want to know that the person I love is who I think they are. BHMM, it sounds like you have decided that both you and your W have to settle for not having this kind of love.

 

It sounds like you stopped really loving your W once you started deceiving her and I imagine it is going to be pretty tough trying to regenerate those feelings of love while continuing to deceive her. The kind of M you could have without deceit is now dead and I don't see how something as good (never mind, better) can be built on continuing deceit.

[Mia Mia]

No one can be 100% sure EVER that their partner is 100% honest with them.. that goes both ways...

 

NO ONE knows FOR SURE unless they are siamese twins..

 

You are right,but I never said my H and I are 100% honest with each other,I said I agree 100% with what she said.

 

I did however say we are very honest and open with each other and I never put a percentage on that.

[Mimolicious]

 

Please ignore the people who don’t think you’re “real” – you and I both know why things like that are said. God forbid a MM actually LOVE their OW from the bottom of their heart!

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds to me like you had what I call “the magic” with your OW. My sincerest hope for you is that you’ll be able to find the same kind of magic with your W someday – and if not, that the choices you have made will be enough for you in the future.

 

 

With all due respect, what exactly is this "Love" and "Magic" of any good for right about now? **Removing the titles, because this has become total bullshyt how this "love and magic" wants to be thrown around to be for an exclusive elite squad.

 

Please, I would really like to know?!

 

Is this making BHMM or anyone in such a facked up situation warm and fuzzy inside? I know that it makes you (in your case), TNYC because you have a different scenario but doesn't seem like whatever the OP feels or had is of any help at this point. On the complete total opposite. Ironically this "love and magic" it's what detonates someone into such broken and puzzled person.

 

Sorry, I would rather be called many other things but not someone that is actually not capable to deliver happiness, magic, love, unicorns and rainbows to myself and those around me due to chasing butterflies.

 

Just like war, what is it good for, absolutely nothing...