A MM's perspective

[Silly_Girl]

Hi Anne, trying to get to the bottom of this, in case I've misunderstood...

 

I have to disagree.

 

I do very much love my H and am very happy with him. I am proof that it possible to "get over" the OM and recover the marriage. We are definitely not room mates.

 

Then you possibly have some good tips for the OP on how to hide a long-term affair and then rekindle a love for a spouse. I don't believe I could do it, I would need that foundation of truth and trust.

 

I am in the camp that promotes telling the BS if you want to recover the marriage. If you don't tell then that is just carrying on with the lies and disrespect. A successful marriage has to be based on honesty and not just on what suits one person in the marriage.

 

I thought you had been in a similar position to BHMM (affair, decided not to 'fess up, somehow turned your M around), thought you were best placed to help him follow his chosen path, but find a happy ending. But your post above told me that in fact you were saying a M CAN recover IF honesty prevails. My opinion also. Not BHMM's opinion.

 

Why so very different?

 

I did not tell the ex-OM lies. I just let him make incorrect assumptions when he asked me questions about my marriage and when I would leave by just not answering in a very clear or specific way. He assumed that I was unhappy and did not love my H which was wrong.

 

However whether I lied or not to the ex-OM has no bearing whatsoever on the recovery of my marriage. The issue there was that I had lied to my husband, just as BHMM has lied to his wife. Therefore I would say that I am suitably qualified by experience to say that a marriage can recover - but only IF there is true commitment to make it work and honesty between both husband and wife

 

I've bolded the above bit. But at this point it still seemed as though you were comparing yourself (wayward spouse, subsequently honest) with BHMM (wayward spouse, no intention of being honest) and I couldn't see how you could compare the two. They're a world apart, from where I'm sitting.

 

Anne, I find this response to be somewhat obtuse on the subject of BHMM's marriage.

 

You lied.

BHMM lied.

 

You wanted to rebuild your M.

BHMM wants to rebuild his M.

 

You owned your actions, confessed to your H, gave your relationship respect and honesty and laid some new foundations.

BHMM plans to uphold his lies for the rest of his life.

 

Of course there is a difference there. That's not to say he has an impossible task, but I think he has an easier ride by avoiding honesty, but he's far less likely to succeed than you, because he's not prepared to front things up.

 

I really am confused as to why you seem to have a problem with what I am posting. I posted saying a marriage can recover because I objected to those who were saying it could not happen when I know it can. I wanted to show to BHMM that if he does want his marriage then he may be able to save it and be happy with his wife. I did not mention anything about lies in the posts I have made this evening until you raised the subject.

 

Yes, you mentioned lies. Because you said this: "The issue there was that I had lied to my husband, just as BHMM has lied to his wife. Therefore I would say I am suitably qualified by experience"....

 

I have no gripe with you personally, I just think it's dangerous to compare yourself with BHMM, because you are here advocating a happy ending by way of honesty and transparency, but apparently ignoring BHMM's stance that his wife does not deserve those things.

[greengoddess]

~shaking my head in absolute confusion that the ow are fine with him choosing his wife when he is in love with his ow~

 

Hopefully he will forget to log out and his wife will see this thread.

[greengoddess]

Some OW read this and find HOPE. A pointless validation of waiting...because, you see, some MM really DO care. You see...right here, in black and white, a MM who LOVED his OW. Truly and deeply. A magic connection he did not have with his W.

 

Some BS read this and find their worst FEAR. That their WS can stray and truly love the OW. The ultimate betrayal. A PA is bad enough but one we can endure...but to know they shared a deep intimate emotional bond. To know they discussed being together...raising the kids together. Heart wrenching.

 

What is lost on both is a sad and simple fact. That the MM (or MW) is cowardly and self-centered in the extreme. Choosing the easy way - the way most expeditious to himself and at that moment. He loves the OW...but not enough. He loves the W..but not enough. He loves his kids...but not enough. He loves himself most of all.

 

I find it odd that having children doesn't PREVENT one from having an A...it only prevents YOU from leaving...or truly staying...in the M. I find it despicable a MM would use his children as shields against whatever it is within himself he cannot face.

 

"I don't have the guts to leave so I'll use the children as an excuse"

"I don't have the courage to recommit so I'll stay for the kids".

 

Disgusting. Cowardly in the extreme...to hide behind ones own children.

 

And, to speak more directly to the OP,this is what you have done. Even worse, per your own admission you tried to leave several times. Do you believe that is a healthy family environment...when the kids wonder why daddy left again and if he comes back this time? I wonder what lies you told the OW when you went back home? And what did you tell your wife?

Certainly not the whole truth. Again...its cowardice. You string along the OW and the W and your kids to suit YOU. These are people not puppets. More perverse still...this is supposed to be your family, the ones you protect and cherish above all others. Or the OW with whom you have a true and deep love.

 

Does the callousness of how he treats BOTH not resonate here? Of how one becomes disposable in the company of the other?

 

Stop twisting this to support your "side" and look at the actions of a MM who picks neither but himself. Repeatedly. And without remorse to anyone but HIMSELF.

 

There is no hope for the OW here...he has said he never lost the bond with the W. That the BIGGEST reason was the kids - but not the only reason. The MM lies about the true depth and nature of the R with his W. He is not 100% committed to you or the fantasy future. He lies.

 

There is validation of the FEAR for BS here. Yes, the MM lies about the depth and nature of the A to you. Yes they are not 100% committed to you either. He might not even be back FOR you as it is for this poor W. He lies yet again.

 

100% committed to themselves. With loyalties and loves shifting like the winds. Always uncertain and afraid of SOMETHING (its individual to the MM/MW this driver). Never facing it...always finding another reason to not "man up". Instead, he'll stay for the kids. Or won't leave for the kids. ITs an excuse. Whatever is broken in you will remain so until you face it.

 

But you cannot...because that requires being honest with YOU. Your W. Your kids. Your families. Your OW.

 

Instead...you'll ignore me. You have already established the pattern of cheat, sweep it away and repeat. You'll do so again I'm sure. To the next unsuspecting OW with whom you share "magic". Its the cycle of your life - one dominated by fear.

 

My advice is to break that cycle. IC. Loads of it now. Then maybe MC. I would certainly suggest disclosure to your W. You won't. Too afraid. You'll back in this spot yet again. How many times is it now? Care to get off this merry-go-round? Then do so.

:laugh:My exact thoughts but put so much more eloquently.

[confusedinkansas]

Villainous is a man who steals 12-yr-old boys, abuses them sexually and then chops them up into liltte pieces. Let's get some perspective here.

 

I don't think the world is black and white, although I know a lot of people like to think it is. People get into affairs for reasons that seem really good at the time (and, no, it's usually not about the sex) - they're exhausted emotionally from yrs of being in a difficult marriage, they've had enough, they feel alone, they tell themselves that they're done with their marriage - all that rot. Then they realize that they really value what they already have, despite their feelings for another person. But the huge mix of emotions can tear a person apart and that's why these relationships are so hard to break away from and why they last for so long. I don't know his exact circumstances and I wouldn't waste my time trying to figure out who he is. He knows who he is - that's the important thing. What he did was human. It happens. He's working through it and staying in his marriage. End of story.

 

Wow Angel - I wish I had someone like you on my side when I was posting for advice here.

 

~shaking my head in absolute confusion that the ow are fine with him choosing his wife when he is in love with his ow~

 

Alot of OMM/OMW LOVE each other. Doesn't mean that all of those affairs end with - Walking off into the sunset, hand in hand & live Happily Ever After. (lord knows that's not how mine ended & Yes, we were VERY MUCH in love)

 

Just means that when they do end - it takes longer to get past them, forget the other person & concentrate on what's important, what already exists in ones life - Marriage & Kids.

[anne1707]

Silly Girl

 

Apologies - it was not you (or me!) who first mentioned lies in respect of my posts:

 

You also openly admit that you were lying to your OM.

.

 

Going back to my posts earlier this evening, they were made very quickly - as you correctly pointed out, I had not made reference to BHMM's lack of honesty with his wife and I should have done. It just frustrates me when some here just cannot believe a marriage can recover (and that does not include you SG) when it can. It's as if some believe that no WS will never know a love that will satisfy them as much as the love they had for the AP and that is so very wrong.

[xxoo]

Everybody has their own level of what they believe is 'necessary honesty'. If I were married to someone like you, it would annoy me. And I don't mean that as a slap against you, it just means that I don't want that level of honesty. I don't think it's necessary and I don't require it. But someone like me would probably drive someone like you nuts because you would think I'm overly secretive. I think most people marry people who understand or match those levels of honesty. It's possible that BH's wife would agree with him that he should just keep quiet about the affair and they can all move on.

 

Obviously it is necessary in BHMM's relationship, since he ended up cheating. How could he have cheated if he had been that honest all along the way?

 

What is more annoying: blunt honesty, or finding out that your spouse had an affair for 3 years?

[Mimolicious]

On the other hand I can say how BHMM saying he did love his OW gives a certain amount of comfort to those that doubted that the love was real.

I know it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I get both sides.

 

With all due respect LS'ers... the only one that had to know if the "love" was real was his OW and unfortunately she is the one that most likely is right this sec doubting this. Not for us to doubt or believe.

 

Why wouldn’t that be a comfort to OW who are hurting, trying to heal, trying to move on with their lives? To get proof positive that at least in this instance, what they’ve been constantly bombarded with is not the truth?

 

TNYC- Is it easier to heal and move on knowing that someone "loved" you yet flat-out left you? I'm really asking. I would think that it would be harder to let go, no? Or are you thinking that the OW in this situation at least has the comfort to know that she was loved for the past 3yrs?

Like- better love many times than not love at all. Type thing?

 

Who cares what the "moral patrol" (as some here call it) gotta think. How is that really impacting anyone in RL?

 

There is a chick feeling like dirt, another living in a bubble, kids playing in the backyard and a miserable man dwelling on all of it. So sad.

[Myowntwofeet]

Silly Girl

 

Apologies - it was not you (or me!) who first mentioned lies in respect of my posts:

 

 

 

Going back to my posts earlier this evening, they were made very quickly - as you correctly pointed out, I had not made reference to BHMM's lack of honesty with his wife and I should have done. It just frustrates me when some here just cannot believe a marriage can recover (and that does not include you SG) when it can. It's as if some believe that no WS will never know a love that will satisfy them as much as the love they had for the AP and that is so very wrong.

 

And just as frustrating is someone making a blanket statement and making it appear as it it another poster's opinion.

 

I don't believe I have EVER said recovery cannot occur.

 

I am the odd one here, but I find you lying by omission still lying to your OM - clearly you felt it was ok to lie to both and I am certain there are many who cheat that would admit to lying to both. BHMM has said he did not lie to his OW.

 

I have always said in a long term affair - I would find it more insulting as a BS to find out that you risked everything when you never loved or thought of leaving and it sounds like playing both for the sake of ego. To me, that shows a superiority ( have an affair, know I am not going anywhere even if I do get caught, spouse will handle it).

 

Now, it may be possible that BHMM also knew he would never leave, even if found out... in that case - yes, very similar.

 

I am not a fan of what BHMM did. Nor am I a fan of any MP who thinks that playing with others ( both BS and OM/OW) is ok, it is not.

[White Flower]

Since then you have said that your purposes in posting were as a roundabout way of avoiding breaching no contact and/or in the hope your OW might read here and/or to assist other OW going through the same thing. Obviously not about rebuilding a marriage and as you correctly worked out, better placed on the OW/OM forum.

Not that I would find it terribly comforting as an OW who stumbled across this thread and thought maybe it was my exMM, I see where BHMM's intentions lie.

 

During the A I'm sure he tried to be good to both BW and OW as much as it was possible. Why then can't he try to be as good to both now after the breakup? As a BW, one who knows your H did love the OW but dumped her for you anyway, can't you understand that it is possible for him to rebuild his M while mourning the death of his A? He can't just turn off the feelings even though he turned his back on OW. It takes time and it will happen but for now he wants to bring comfort to her even if she doesn't know it is him. And the chances of her actually finding LS and discovering this thread are very nill.

[torranceshipman]

Absolutely!

 

They are more than happy to tell us all the time what the MM is thinking, as long as they can tell us that he is thinking that his OW was worthless and his wife is a godess that he wants to spend the rest of his life making it all up to while having Hot Monkey Sex all day and night, and romancing her with candle lit dinners and weekend holidays.

 

But along comes a MM who blows all of their theories about the mindset of MM out of the water, and they can not argue what he feels, because he is the only one who can say what he really feels, so rather than try they simply accuse him of being an imposter. Unreal!!!

 

I have on occasion quietly questioned the authenticity of a fBW here, who claims she is having the most wonderful and loving reconciliation. I honestly believe that her WH is long gone with his OW, hence the venom that drips from her fingers everytime she types, but who am I to say anything outloud? If she wants to try and convince the world and it makes her feel better to make people believe that she is reconciled and happy, so be it. Far be it from me to call her out on it.

 

 

BHMM,

 

Your authenticity comes across in your posts as far as I can see. I can read your pain and confusion. The fact that you write eloquently does not hide your pain and loss.

 

Keep posting. Keep working through your pain. Losing a relationship is like a little death. You have to go through the stages of grief. You will get there in time, and hopefully in time, you will be at peace with your choices.

 

I wouldn't say anyone was blown out of the water by this story, but then I haven't ever commented on monkey sex either . To be fair, whatever he felt for the OW, it wasn't enough to leave his W for, and I am surprised that things like financial concerns was one of the reasons given for not leaving (in addition to bringing issues into the R, thinking it might not work out, and also worries about cheating on the OW in future, which also surprised me). I would happily swap everything I own for the chance to be with my fiance (I am already with him, but you know what I mean). I am happy to take any difficulties, disagreements, or whatever, that come our way, as we'll face them together. So I don't think any of these things are legitimate concerns.

 

I do get his worries about his kids though, and kudos to him for ending the A when he realized he wasn't going to leave. But I think it is a false economy - the W gets a man who wants someone else, and the kids get a father who cheated on their mom, and wants another woman more than their mom. I can't see how that is the best case scenario.

[Confused4Now]

Please read this and pay special attention to a person named "stampdaddy."

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223067

MAN I miss my brother Stampdaddy!!!! Stampdaddy for President!!!!

[pureinheart]

As a former MM (who had a MOW, so I can understand the pain on both sides in a way) I believe what he is saying. When I said the things I said, I meant them, as much as anyone can mean them. I really was truly torn tho, the A just kinda happened through some extraordinary circumstances, not through any real problems in the M. And now circumstances changed and the A is long over, and to BHMM, your road will probably be longer and harder than mine was because of your current feelings towards your W, but things do get better as time goes on. I too felt like I was going through the motions, but for me it was to get back where thoughts of the OW weren't flooding my mind and I could get back to my feelings for my W I had just months ago that I had been distracted from.

 

((((((((((W))))))))), many M's are able to reconcile and am really glad yours was.

[anne1707]

And just as frustrating is someone making a blanket statement and making it appear as it it another poster's opinion.

 

I don't believe I have EVER said recovery cannot occur.

 

 

But you did seem to imply that my saying recovery is possible for BHMM was not all together right because I had lied to my () ex-OM when as far as I was concerned that was not at all relevant to the point I was making about recovery of the marriage.

 

I am the odd one here, but I find you lying by omission still lying to your OM - clearly you felt it was ok to lie to both and I am certain there are many who cheat that would admit to lying to both. BHMM has said he did not lie to his OW.

 

I totally agree that lying by omission is lying which is why in my first post in this thread I said I lied to the ex-OM. However at the time I did not think of myself as lying to him. I was just putting my head in the sand and avoiding issues.

 

I have always said in a long term affair - I would find it more insulting as a BS to find out that you risked everything when you never loved or thought of leaving and it sounds like playing both for the sake of ego. To me, that shows a superiority ( have an affair, know I am not going anywhere even if I do get caught, spouse will handle it).

 

Now, it may be possible that BHMM also knew he would never leave, even if found out... in that case - yes, very similar.

 

I can understand your point that if a BS, you would rather it was because your WS had met someone else who they loved - but then there are probably others who would say that they would not be able to stand that emotional (as well as physical) betrayal and take comfort that the WS did not love the AP. (hope I have not got myself in a loop trying to phrase that). I must emphasise however that in my situation, there were genuine emotions and I did think about leaving my marriage. Also when I told my H, I never for one moment expected him to give me the chance for recovery. I just could not lie to him anymore. However I have more than once used that expression cake eater to describe myself at that time.

 

 

I am not a fan of what BHMM did. Nor am I a fan of any MP who thinks that playing with others ( both BS and OM/OW) is ok, it is not.

 

 

I actually have no opinion of BHMM one way or another but I do totally agree with you in that I hate the way WS play with the emotions of others. This is why I will continue to post on LS and be clear about how badly I acted to both my H and the ex-OM. WS use and abuse people - very selfish and very unloving. Maybe some WS do not lie to the AP - but many do lie (and do it very well).

[jj33]

 

TNYC- Is it easier to heal and move on knowing that someone "loved" you yet flat-out left you? I'm really asking. I would think that it would be harder to let go, no? Or are you thinking that the OW in this situation at least has the comfort to know that she was loved for the past 3yrs?

Like- better love many times than not love at all. Type thing?

 

There is a chick feeling like dirt, another living in a bubble, kids playing in the backyard and a miserable man dwelling on all of it. So sad.

 

I can answer that at least for me. I felt MUCH better knowing that he really loved me and missed me. Not that I wished him the pain he went through but the relationship was very special to me and despite how awful things were for awhile in the recent past, the actual time we were together was wonderful. And it means alot to me that it was important to him. If it wasnt i would feel alot worse about it. I dont see any reason to be in a relationship with anyone who doesnt truly care about you, and I would have been very disappointed if I had given my heart to someone who didnt care so deeply for me.

 

Its the better to have loved thing.

 

Some here will say it wasnt really love or he would have left but thats their opinion.

[awkward]

I don't see how anyone can find comfort in this thread. This man has two women in his life that are hurting and HE is the common denominator.

 

His OW is just like a lot of OW we meet on this forum. They met, fell in love, and broke up when he refused to leave his marriage. He told her he would, she believed him, and he didn't. Three years she stood by this man for what, happy loving memories? I hope that comforts her at night but I doubt it because in the end her love is lying next to his wife at night. (And here is the kicker ... he doesn't even love his wife.)

 

I can't see how the fact that he loved his other woman is so comforting. So what if he loved her. She is completely screwed because he loved her. I mean really, should it be comforting to his wife that he once loved her before he betrayed her?

 

I appreciate BHMM posting here. It is nice to see his perspective. But in my eyes he still looks like a selfish (NOT selfless) MM.

 

His wife is in the dark because he doesn't want his life to be uncomfortable. He doesn't want to cause her unnecessary pain yet he didn't care while he was lying and engaging in an affair. It's not the fact that he cheated that would hurt her but the being told about it that would destroy her? Makes no sense at all. Is it even possible to repair a marriage that has been destroyed by this type of betrayal without honesty and respect?

 

BHMM is still in love with his OW. His heart is with her. Being present with his wife and children isn't the same as being engaged, checked in.

 

He doesn't want to hurt his children yet he did for 3 years. Parents will take a bullet for their children but they won't think twice before destroying their family unit with an affair. BHMM doesn't know what kind of advice he would give his daughter if she was married to a man who didn't love her nor respect their marriage. Either he doesn't have a daughter or ... WTF? Does being in affair cloud up one's rational thinking?

[breaking_bad]

Some OW read this and find HOPE. A pointless validation of waiting...because, you see, some MM really DO care. You see...right here, in black and white, a MM who LOVED his OW. Truly and deeply. A magic connection he did not have with his W.

 

Some BS read this and find their worst FEAR. That their WS can stray and truly love the OW. The ultimate betrayal. A PA is bad enough but one we can endure...but to know they shared a deep intimate emotional bond. To know they discussed being together...raising the kids together. Heart wrenching.

 

What is lost on both is a sad and simple fact. That the MM (or MW) is cowardly and self-centered in the extreme. Choosing the easy way - the way most expeditious to himself and at that moment. He loves the OW...but not enough. He loves the W..but not enough. He loves his kids...but not enough. He loves himself most of all.

 

I find it odd that having children doesn't PREVENT one from having an A...it only prevents YOU from leaving...or truly staying...in the M. I find it despicable a MM would use his children as shields against whatever it is within himself he cannot face.

 

"I don't have the guts to leave so I'll use the children as an excuse"

"I don't have the courage to recommit so I'll stay for the kids".

 

Disgusting. Cowardly in the extreme...to hide behind ones own children.

 

And, to speak more directly to the OP,this is what you have done. Even worse, per your own admission you tried to leave several times. Do you believe that is a healthy family environment...when the kids wonder why daddy left again and if he comes back this time? I wonder what lies you told the OW when you went back home? And what did you tell your wife?

Certainly not the whole truth. Again...its cowardice. You string along the OW and the W and your kids to suit YOU. These are people not puppets. More perverse still...this is supposed to be your family, the ones you protect and cherish above all others. Or the OW with whom you have a true and deep love.

 

Does the callousness of how he treats BOTH not resonate here? Of how one becomes disposable in the company of the other?

 

Stop twisting this to support your "side" and look at the actions of a MM who picks neither but himself. Repeatedly. And without remorse to anyone but HIMSELF.

 

There is no hope for the OW here...he has said he never lost the bond with the W. That the BIGGEST reason was the kids - but not the only reason. The MM lies about the true depth and nature of the R with his W. He is not 100% committed to you or the fantasy future. He lies.

 

There is validation of the FEAR for BS here. Yes, the MM lies about the depth and nature of the A to you. Yes they are not 100% committed to you either. He might not even be back FOR you as it is for this poor W. He lies yet again.

 

100% committed to themselves. With loyalties and loves shifting like the winds. Always uncertain and afraid of SOMETHING (its individual to the MM/MW this driver). Never facing it...always finding another reason to not "man up". Instead, he'll stay for the kids. Or won't leave for the kids. ITs an excuse. Whatever is broken in you will remain so until you face it.

 

But you cannot...because that requires being honest with YOU. Your W. Your kids. Your families. Your OW.

 

Instead...you'll ignore me. You have already established the pattern of cheat, sweep it away and repeat. You'll do so again I'm sure. To the next unsuspecting OW with whom you share "magic". Its the cycle of your life - one dominated by fear.

 

My advice is to break that cycle. IC. Loads of it now. Then maybe MC. I would certainly suggest disclosure to your W. You won't. Too afraid. You'll back in this spot yet again. How many times is it now? Care to get off this merry-go-round? Then do so.

 

This is a really thought-provoking thread. And this is my favorite post ever....

 

I think it's good that some OW/OM have found some sense of peace in knowing that they were not crazy in feeling what they felt. I suppose it's kind of like finding out the truth of who killed you before you died.

 

I find it interesting that the only person with any iota of control and say over how it all goes down is the WS. Based on, in the end, what works best for them and what they ultimately want/value most.

 

And they ensure they get what they want by continuing to decieve the BS as is in this case, or, if continue the A by decieving/manipulating the OW/OM as long as humanly possible.

 

So feelings, love, passion, comfort, friendship, marriage, children, all those things aside, the WS and what they want is usually what this comes down to. Whether it's driven from a place of selfishness, or evil or simply a place of cowardice, the conductor always seems to be the WS unless the players intervene and say differently. Regardless of the what's and wherefores, these situations are all spooky similar with one common denominator.... Very interesting.

 

(and this is in no way meant to be judgemental. I think that the majority of human beings are selfish. I know I am in alot of ways selfish and impulsive, and I believe that if I would have been less, I never would have ended up in my situation. When I look at the investment I put towards the A (mental investment where i wasn't "present" or physical time away) that I could have been putting towards my son, my parents, other people important in my life that needed me, it's not something I'm very proud of, and this is one of the focuses of my reparations now that I'm out of this A.

Edited August 31, 2010 by breaking_bad

[Ellin]

I would think this would give other women all the more reason to run and run fast not reassurance. Here is a man who truly says he loves the ow and what does he do? wastes 3 years of her life. Now the ow is not only heartbroken but probably has a really hard time trusting anyone if smeone who says they love you can hurt you like this. This man is not reassuring for wives or ow. He is reassuring for mm who want to get away with an ffair and never face the truth of the mess they have created in two womens lives and multiple children. SAD.

 

That can only come from someone who's never been in the shoes of OW who comes on LS confused and hurting badly, seeking help and support and getting a welcome in the form of siege of "you're only his side dish / sex toy / dirty secret", which tears her apart emotionally and is akin to kicking someone who's already lying helplessly on the ground..

[Ellin]

 

There is a chick feeling like dirt, another living in a bubble, kids playing in the backyard and a miserable man dwelling on all of it. So sad.

 

Yes, this is the situation and it is sad. But what is the point in constantly summing it up with the focus on how tragic it is? Does it make you so sad that you can't get over it?

 

It's happened and this MM's sharing it with us. Just like it happens in life. We all wish life was a fairy tale when two perfectly matched people meet, fall madly in love that lasts forever and live happily ever after, but it isn't.

 

He's now trying to make amends. And the division between posters in regard to what is the best way to go about it shows that in case of complicated situations like this there are no simple and obvious answers.

[crazycatlady]

Hey people, I have to work during the days, slow down the postings on the interesting threads. I'm at page 17. And I want to post while my thoughts are in my head (I'm feel drained from work) and not floating off in lala land.

 

Alright here are my thoughts, sorry if I repeat anyone.

 

BHMM - I still struggle from the idea of someone staying with me because I'm the mom. I struggled for about a year maybe it was two years with feeling like that was all I was....mom and sometimes whore to my husband's needs (this was during what I call the bad years). I lost ME. Crazycat was gone and darned if I knew where she was. And here you are, staying with her not because who she is, but what she is. That hits me as wrong on so many levels. So that's my problem coming at this from the wife's side of things.

 

On to the kid side of things. I would gladly kill for my kids, I would gladly die for my kids, if my dying saves them, I would do it in a heartbeat, shoot, if there is just a minute chance that my dying would save then I would do it. But what I won't do is stop living for my kids. I have done that, I did that for those bad years. I was suicidal in the middle of it because I didn't know me. My marriage almost disolved because I didn't know me, my H didn't know me, the kids didn't know me.

 

Living for the kids isn't healthy. While I do not think parents should put their needs first all the time, stopping living for the kids isn't the same thing. Its not healthy for kids, its a horrid role model for them as well.

 

I guess I could admire wanting to save the marriage for the sake of your wife for the love that you do still have for her, even if you aren't in love with her and feel more friendship then lust. I can't admire wanting to stay for the kids for what I meantioned above.

 

You are going to do what you are going to do. Since you are going this way, you can't just give attention to your wife and expect it to make things better. You must find the love for your wife again. You must find the lust for her, not just physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. You must be able to share everything with her that you shared with your former other woman. And I understand, and actually do flip flop back and forth on agreeing, with not telling her about the affair. But everything else must be an open book to your wife. This includes telling her about the lack of connection you feel you have. Wanting to reignite the connection. Wanting to know her as more then simply your children's mother.

 

Otherwise, if you can't do that, get out now.

 

CCL

[jj33]

I would think this would give other women all the more reason to run and run fast not reassurance. Here is a man who truly says he loves the ow and what does he do? wastes 3 years of her life. Now the ow is not only heartbroken but probably has a really hard time trusting anyone if smeone who says they love you can hurt you like this. This man is not reassuring for wives or ow. He is reassuring for mm who want to get away with an ffair and never face the truth of the mess they have created in two womens lives and multiple children. SAD.

 

Very very true. But this is the truth of so many As indeed the majority of those posted about on this forum. BH good for you for having the courage to post. And its interesting as an fOW to see what someone in BH's shoes is thinking.

[woinlove]

This is a really thought-provoking thread. And this is my favorite post ever....

 

I think it's good that some OW/OM have found some sense of peace in knowing that they were not crazy in feeling what they felt. I suppose it's kind of like finding out the truth of who killed you before you died.

 

I find it interesting that the only person with any iota of control and say over how it all goes down is the WS. Based on, in the end, what works best for them and what they ultimately want/value most.

 

And they ensure they get what they want by continuing to decieve the BS as is in this case, or, if continue the A by decieving/manipulating the OW/OM as long as humanly possible.

 

So feelings, love, passion, comfort, friendship, marriage, children, all those things aside, the WS and what they want is usually what this comes down to. Whether it's driven from a place of selfishness, or evil or simply a place of cowardice, the conductor always seems to be the WS unless the players intervene and say differently. Regardless of the what's and wherefores, these situations are all spooky similar with one common denominator.... Very interesting.

 

(and this is in no way meant to be judgemental. I think that the majority of human beings are selfish. I know I am in alot of ways selfish and impulsive, and I believe that if I would have been less, I never would have ended up in my situation. When I look at the investment I put towards the A (mental investment where i wasn't "present" or physical time away) that I could have been putting towards my son, my parents, other people important in my life that needed me, it's not something I'm very proud of, and this is one of the focuses of my reparations now that I'm out of this A.

 

Yes, that was a great post by jwi71. And you're right, the WS has the control and gets what he wants. For 3 years he wanted both the OW and W, and if he could have kept the positives outweighing the negatives for himself, it might have continued for another 3 years. Some people manage that or even longer. But with the OW asking for more, worrying about the effect on his family, he would rather just have the W and M now.

 

Of course, if he was honest with his W, he might no longer get what he wants as she might want him gone. Doesn't seem like he will take that risk.

[Ellin]

Some OW read this and find HOPE. A pointless validation of waiting...because, you see, some MM really DO care. You see...right here, in black and white, a MM who LOVED his OW. Truly and deeply. A magic connection he did not have with his W.

I doubt it that this thread brings OW HOPE. I'd say on the contrary - he LOVED his OW, but still DIDN'T leave the W for her. How does that bring hope? If anything, the message it gives is - "DO NOT HOPE! Even those MM who love their OW deeply stay M".

Some BS read this and find their worst FEAR. That their WS can stray and truly love the OW. The ultimate betrayal. A PA is bad enough but one we can endure...but to know they shared a deep intimate emotional bond. To know they discussed being together...raising the kids together. Heart wrenching.

So we better say shhhh... No mention of any possibility of MM loving another woman in case any married women are reading this... We dare not worry them with mentioning such a thing..

I find it odd that having children doesn't PREVENT one from having an A...it only prevents YOU from leaving...or truly staying...in the M. I find it despicable a MM would use his children as shields against whatever it is within himself he cannot face.

 

"I don't have the guts to leave so I'll use the children as an excuse"

"I don't have the courage to recommit so I'll stay for the kids".

 

Disgusting. Cowardly in the extreme...to hide behind ones own children.

You seem to like telling others what they feel and think. This is quite rude IMO. Only he knows what's in his mind and heart and he says he places his children above all else - in the final count of things. This is a good thing and shows selflessness and not selfishness in this regard. Just because he had an A in the first place does not automatically negate that he values his children that much and is capable of putting them first, so you have no factual basis for your condemning interpretation of his motives.

[Ellin]

Not putting down the MM but I myself would like to get the OW side of the story....I mean come one 3+ years. I'm sure there was gas-lighting, lying, manipulation on the MM's part.

 

He already admitted that he had made promises to her which he couldn't keep. He said that at the time he genuinely believed he could keep them but then it turned out too difficult. I can imagine it to be true.

 

However, I really feel for this OW. She must have loved him so much, spend 3+ years waiting and hoping, tried NC several times but couldn't keep away and then got cut off, even though it was so hard for her to accept that. She must be completely heart-broken. I hope she's getting loads of support and has started to feel better.

[NoIDidn't]

Some OW read this and find HOPE. A pointless validation of waiting...because, you see, some MM really DO care. You see...right here, in black and white, a MM who LOVED his OW. Truly and deeply. A magic connection he did not have with his W.

 

Some BS read this and find their worst FEAR. That their WS can stray and truly love the OW. The ultimate betrayal. A PA is bad enough but one we can endure...but to know they shared a deep intimate emotional bond. To know they discussed being together...raising the kids together. Heart wrenching.

 

What is lost on both is a sad and simple fact. That the MM (or MW) is cowardly and self-centered in the extreme. Choosing the easy way - the way most expeditious to himself and at that moment. He loves the OW...but not enough. He loves the W..but not enough. He loves his kids...but not enough. He loves himself most of all.

 

I find it odd that having children doesn't PREVENT one from having an A...it only prevents YOU from leaving...or truly staying...in the M. I find it despicable a MM would use his children as shields against whatever it is within himself he cannot face.

 

"I don't have the guts to leave so I'll use the children as an excuse"

"I don't have the courage to recommit so I'll stay for the kids".

 

Disgusting. Cowardly in the extreme...to hide behind ones own children.

 

And, to speak more directly to the OP,this is what you have done. Even worse, per your own admission you tried to leave several times. Do you believe that is a healthy family environment...when the kids wonder why daddy left again and if he comes back this time? I wonder what lies you told the OW when you went back home? And what did you tell your wife?

Certainly not the whole truth. Again...its cowardice. You string along the OW and the W and your kids to suit YOU. These are people not puppets. More perverse still...this is supposed to be your family, the ones you protect and cherish above all others. Or the OW with whom you have a true and deep love.

 

Does the callousness of how he treats BOTH not resonate here? Of how one becomes disposable in the company of the other?

 

Stop twisting this to support your "side" and look at the actions of a MM who picks neither but himself. Repeatedly. And without remorse to anyone but HIMSELF.

 

There is no hope for the OW here...he has said he never lost the bond with the W. That the BIGGEST reason was the kids - but not the only reason. The MM lies about the true depth and nature of the R with his W. He is not 100% committed to you or the fantasy future. He lies.

 

There is validation of the FEAR for BS here. Yes, the MM lies about the depth and nature of the A to you. Yes they are not 100% committed to you either. He might not even be back FOR you as it is for this poor W. He lies yet again.

 

100% committed to themselves. With loyalties and loves shifting like the winds. Always uncertain and afraid of SOMETHING (its individual to the MM/MW this driver). Never facing it...always finding another reason to not "man up". Instead, he'll stay for the kids. Or won't leave for the kids. ITs an excuse. Whatever is broken in you will remain so until you face it.

 

But you cannot...because that requires being honest with YOU. Your W. Your kids. Your families. Your OW.

 

Instead...you'll ignore me. You have already established the pattern of cheat, sweep it away and repeat. You'll do so again I'm sure. To the next unsuspecting OW with whom you share "magic". Its the cycle of your life - one dominated by fear.

 

My advice is to break that cycle. IC. Loads of it now. Then maybe MC. I would certainly suggest disclosure to your W. You won't. Too afraid. You'll back in this spot yet again. How many times is it now? Care to get off this merry-go-round? Then do so.

 

Great post. I haven't finished reading this, but it summed up some of my thoughts. I disagree about the BSs fears of seeing the "love", as I doubt people in most affairs have any idea of "love". The OP even admitted to not having had any issues with love in his marriage before the A.

 

Based on the OW response to this OP, I guess "I loved my OW" trumps calling the W "life partner". According to most in this forum, the OP is the "life partner" not the W. Oh well.

 

Its truly disgusting to see children used as an excuse to stay married in justification to placate an OW. Why not think of them before the A started? That's what I do. Think of the potential consequences before my potential benefits and weigh the two against each other. From reading this, this analysis was done and "they'll never find out" was the winner in the "consequences" column. And maybe they won't. But if they do.....

 

The only "perspective" I see in the OP is that of "Whew, glad I didn't get caught by my W and my OW bought that I couldn't leave my marriage because of my kids."

 

The OP has said that he is home a lot more now and that he is making a "sacrifice" in doing so. I LOL'd. I remember when my dad decided to stop cheating on my stepmom and went through this "marriage building" phase. It was short-lived because he thought she and the kids should be "grateful" to have him back. Truth is, they got used him not being around making demands on them. And they didn't appreciate his new interest in them as it wasn't there before.

 

Its always confusing to me to read OWs say how much of a family man the MM is, but admit that he's hardly ever home. I don't know how they reconcile this. Same with this OP. The "I'm home a lot more now" doesn't jibe with "I was concerned about my kids".

 

The perspective presented here is just as unhealthy as the affair was. Neither is anything to cheer about.

[Confused4Now]

He already admitted that he had made promises to her which he couldn't keep. He said that at the time he genuinely believed he could keep them but then it turned out too difficult. I can imagine it to be true.

 

However, I really feel for this OW. She must have loved him so much, spend 3+ years waiting and hoping, tried NC several times but couldn't keep away and then got cut off, even though it was so hard for her to accept that. She must be completely heart-broken. I hope she's getting loads of support and has started to feel better.

AMEN to that...being on the waiting end of 5 years almost. Also starting out as a MM and now a OM I do know exactly how she feels. I can't count how many times she broke my heart finally got to a point where I was numb.....anything she did never surprised me anymore. I hope OW does have support from family and friends. I know what it almost did to me....