A MM's perspective

[Mimolicious]

Beat me on the head because I must be seriously retarded....

 

This dude says he's never had a "connection" nor "opened" himself to the person tha the is M to and is the mother of his children. I wonder WTF you M her for?

 

This is like starting backwards. Ain't it!? You M the person, create a family, fall in love with someone else, experience the "magic" with the OP, drop them, then go and start to build your M (yet you just destroyed it) and try to "connect" and "love" the person you have been M to. Classic!

 

Rather than trying to face the fact that you can't be with your OW, perhaps you should re-examine why are you with your W. She was a woman before being a mother... the kids excuse falls short. I am she has needs and would love some genuine love and affection, rather than the pity love you are trying to "rebuild".

"Rebuild' WHAT? Can't rebuilt something that was never there...

 

Wonder if one day your W would love to know the kind of act you put up being Mr. Lovely all of the sudden. Yet, you were at an internet board mourning the end of your A and saying that you most def would rather be with someone else but your W and Ks stand on the way. Lovely.

 

Seek help. From a professional. I don't think someone in your same situation or worse scenario can actually give unbiased advice, unless there are professionals here that can actually help with such situation.

[Emerald Yawn]

Finally! A fOW that will call the OP on his BS (not betrayed spouse)!

I'm sure that your OP DOES reflect your perspective.

 

And because neither your W nor your OW call you on your own BS.

 

You are where you are because that's where you want to be.

 

So stop the boo-hooing-you are where you want to be so own it.

 

Don't blame it on anyone else but yourself. You alone can make a change. For the good or for the worse, it's your choice.

 

So-so sounds like your life motto. I personally think your OW is lucky she doesn't have to deal with you anymore. No one wants so-so when they can have superior.

 

GEL

STOP your boo-hooing. Do you know what the word honor means? You, sir, are not doing a thing to honor the people in your life. Not the wifey, not the OW and certainly not your kiddies. Do you really think you are being a good role model?

 

Do you know what a user is? I hope you do. So far you've managed to use your wife to raise your kids, use your OW for your pleasure, use your kids for your ego, and use us here at Loveshack to read your whining. Who is next?

 

GEL is right. Your OW deserves better and so do your wife and kids. So do we! I won't discourage your from posting; don't misunderstand. I encourage you to take action. Stop talking. Start doing.

 

Time to man up.

 

Emmy

[bentnotbroken]

I'm with you.. could you imagine if it was his BW that found this thread instead of the other woman he is hoping reads it? I think she would find it particularly insulting that her husband has no specific ideas on how to fix the mess he created and was not even intending to clue her in on things so that possibly she could help?

 

 

I pray she does find it. I feel so sorry for her having to settle for what he wants.

[September]

 

If she is feeling anywhere how I have felt and still feel, she will most likely come across this thread - at some stage.

 

Even though she knows it is over, in her mind, she will be questioning the why's and how's. Why didn't he love me enough to leave and be with me? Why did he promise so much? Why did he waste my time when he didn't have any intentions of leaving? How can he sleep with his wife? Does he think of me? Does he miss me? How can he walk around pretending that he is happy? What is their sex life like? A billion questions constantly flying around. I searched the internet high and low trying to find answers and eventually came across LS. I wish I had found it sooner. It took me 6 months. Eventually if she is wanting answers, she will find it too.

 

She will have her extreme high's and low's too. She will be angry, desperate, incredibly lonely, confused. The cord has been cut. The man she spoke to all day and at times night, has dropped her like a hot cake, given up on the woman he told over and over he loved and couldn't be without. She probably feels duped, silly, gullible. She will feel anxious and lie there at night fretting about you being intimate with your wife, touching, kissing and loving the very woman you told her you didn't have intimate feelings for anymore (it was only xOW that made you feel that way). It will take her a very long time to get over you, the very idea of you and the dreams she had for both of you.

 

If she is anything like me, she is completely and utterly heartbroken...

[Emerald Yawn]

She will have her extreme high's and low's too. She will be angry, desperate, incredibly lonely, confused. The cord has been cut. The man she spoke to all day and at times night, has dropped her like a hot cake, given up on the woman he told over and over he loved and couldn't be without. She probably feels duped, silly, gullible. She will feel anxious and lie there at night fretting about you being intimate with your wife, touching, kissing and loving the very woman you told her you didn't have intimate feelings for anymore (it was only xOW that made you feel that way). It will take her a very long time to get over you, the very idea of you and the dreams she had for both of you.

Or maybe she mourned the R, decided not to be a party to his so-so lifestyle and moved on?

 

Maybe she is out celebrating her new life and meeting someone new? Moving forward. She could be out dancing instead of sitting in front of a computer screen.

 

I hope she is, don't you?

 

Emmy

[desertmoon]

I sincerely hope you have a better reason for staying than just "for the kids", which so rarely ever works out to be in the kids best interests.

 

My husband and I stayed in our "marriage" for our child until she was old enought for a serious talk. We did not have loud arguments and such. Our daughter is doing very well so far. She is a very good student, with a kind heart. She is also quite popular among her peers. My H and I finally divorced last year. My daughter only wants her us to be happy but she is also assured that we will always be a "family'. For the university's parent orientation days, her father (now my xH) and I went and it was very nice.

[Mimolicious]

If she is feeling anywhere how I have felt and still feel, she will most likely come across this thread - at some stage.

 

Even though she knows it is over, in her mind, she will be questioning the why's and how's. Why didn't he love me enough to leave and be with me? Why did he promise so much? Why did he waste my time when he didn't have any intentions of leaving? How can he sleep with his wife? Does he think of me? Does he miss me? How can he walk around pretending that he is happy? What is their sex life like? A billion questions constantly flying around. I searched the internet high and low trying to find answers and eventually came across LS. I wish I had found it sooner. It took me 6 months. Eventually if she is wanting answers, she will find it too.

 

She will have her extreme high's and low's too. She will be angry, desperate, incredibly lonely, confused. The cord has been cut. The man she spoke to all day and at times night, has dropped her like a hot cake, given up on the woman he told over and over he loved and couldn't be without. She probably feels duped, silly, gullible. She will feel anxious and lie there at night fretting about you being intimate with your wife, touching, kissing and loving the very woman you told her you didn't have intimate feelings for anymore (it was only xOW that made you feel that way). It will take her a very long time to get over you, the very idea of you and the dreams she had for both of you.

 

If she is anything like me, she is completely and utterly heartbroken...

 

And you know that his W could feel the same, right? (well maybe minus the glossy parts of love and sex, since they didn't have much of it). Why is this being illustrated exclusively for his OW? I know... I know... this is the OW/OM forum. Aren't we all WOMEN (mostly) but mostly HUMAN???????? Or they must be anything like you, Sept? I am perhaps nothing like you, nor I have ever been the OW but I have felt all that you described above AND yes, I questioned most of the same as listed, when my xH left me for someone else.

But that would make me a "bitter scorned BS" to have felt like that, no?

Since some of you classify others for having those same little feelings that we all are capable of having.

 

Gets old....

Edited September 2, 2010 by Mimolicious

[2sunny]

i actually would recommend that you spend a few years ALL BY YOURSELF! that's right. without any woman.

 

find out what YOU really looks like. what a concept, eh?

 

it's really not fair to either one of these women to have to be with you any time soon. you would only be dumping a bunch of crap and negative enery on either one of them - why would they deserve that?

 

you are a very confused and empty man - so go be alone... to find out what happy looks like when you are not dependent on another woman. THIS way - you can spend a TON of time figuring yourself out - and time with your kids = who you state are your biggest priority anyway.

 

move out = spend time alone and with kids. all problems solved.

[desertmoon]

How can a man who has such love and dedication for his kids be so cruel and selfish towards his wife (their mother)? Doesn't sound like the same man can be both to me.

 

Because they are two different entities. They are not equals. The dynamics of the relationship is very different. I love my child more than anything and anyone in this world. Staying in my marriage was not a sacrifice, it was the thing to do. My exH loves our child, too, but he was a serial cheater and it had nothing to do with his kid. We both decided because we loved our child that we were going to be cordial and civil and we were.

 

Somebody mentioned something about what a burden it is to the child if he finds out the parent stayed in the marriage because of him. That's hogwash! I told my child I stayed, because making sure that she had an intact family growing up was important to me and doing what's important to me, made me happy.

[Confused4Now]

My husband and I stayed in our "marriage" for our child until she was old enought for a serious talk. We did not have loud arguments and such. Our daughter is doing very well so far. She is a very good student, with a kind heart. She is also quite popular among her peers. My H and I finally divorced last year. My daughter only wants her us to be happy but she is also assured that we will always be a "family'. For the university's parent orientation days, her father (now my xH) and I went and it was very nice.

Well in my situation..I didn't have that type of discussion with my kids..They were wondering why DAD hasn't left in a long time. I actually did pull the family together to have a discussion with my xW there with the kids...what ended up happening was my kids pretty much articulated what I was saying to my xW about for YEARS!!! meaning our issues... I was so proud of my kids they were all so right on with their words...only to have my xW the next day say I obviously brained washed them... Wow she couldn't even give my own kids credit. SAD

[eleanorrigby]

Thanks very much for the offer, but please don't do that; I can wait 27 more days. As you mentioned, I'm holding off because I don't want "LS.org" showing up on the cc statement. Good looking out.

 

Still lying, still hiding. And this is the man that is trying to rebuild his marriage.

[SouthernLady]

BHMM,

 

Please excuse me if you have already covered this but.......

How long have you been M?

What are the approximate ages of all parties involved?

 

I am just curious. Not trying to pry, so feel free to ignore.

 

Thanks,

SL

[2sunny]

Originally Posted by herenow

How can a man who has such love and dedication for his kids be so cruel and selfish towards his wife (their mother)? Doesn't sound like the same man can be both to me.

 

it's the ego that gets in the way.

 

add in entitlement and the exception to the rule along with a little justifying and you have yourself the one who cheats...

[September]

And you know that his W could feel the same, right? (well maybe minus the glossy parts of love and sex, since they didn't have much of it). Why is this being illustrated exclusively for his OW? I know... I know... this is the OW/OM forum. Aren't we all WOMEN (mostly) but mostly HUMAN???????? Or they must be anything like you, Sept? I am perhaps nothing like you, nor I have ever been the OW but I have felt all that you described above AND yes, I questioned most of the same as listed, when my xH left me for someone else.

But that would make me a "bitter scorned BS" to have felt like that, no?

Since some of you classify others for having those same little feelings that we all are capable of having.

 

Gets old....

 

Of course his wife would feel that way, I am not dismissing her feelings at all. I am only speaking purely from my perspective and have said, if she is anything like me, this is what she will be going through. It was only illustrated because I was an OW and I can only give my opinion. I am not and have not been a BS and have no right to comment on how they feel as I am not in their shoes.

 

I am also not interested in starting a war between BS and OW with this "bitter scorned BS" crap. God know's there are also plenty of "bitter scorned OW" out there too.

[White Flower]

The seemingly contradiction between altruistic and selfish behavior in a long term affair with a great level of emotional involvement can be described as a split self.

 

The married person (and his/her spouse) has for a long time suppressed his own emotional self and strived to do the right thing, to do what is expected of him. Through the involvement in the affair he finally gets an outlet and an opportunity for contact with this lost part of himself. It is irresistible. At the same time he is greatly torn between the part of him that wants to do the right thing and the part of him that needs contact with this emotional self.

 

AmIWrong, about the inconsistency in telling or not, my personal opinion would be that the married person is so used to suppressing himself, his needs, his emotions and keeping up the impression of doing everything right. Doing everything right is most likely a survival mechanism learnt already in the family of origin. It is very difficult to change this way of behavior. It has served him well so far in life.

 

Looking at my own MM, he was the good child growing up. To make this impression possible, he had a hidden inner life, a hidden part of himself that he showed to no one. What happens when the affair starts, is that for the first time in his life, the MM shares this part of himself with someone. This inner life is still hidden though, as the affair is hidden, it has not been integrated with his regular life and his public self.

 

BHMM, is the above something you can relate to? Something you feel applies to you?

Thanks for climbing aboard jennie, I knew you could explain the theory better than I could.

 

BHMM,

 

I think the hardest part of your getting over the OW is imagining her life wasted with pining away for you. I think if you could really wrap your head around the fact that she is/will be okay, that you could let go and move forward. But as long as you are worrying about her you are stagnant.

 

The truth is that your OW is probably in a pretty dark place right now. She probably is also having trouble sleeping, eating, coping. She too is probably going through the motions of her life, acting normally to outside eyes, but feeling very disconnected from it all.

 

But, and here is what is most important for you... She will get better. She will start to have days where she smiles again. She will eventually eat and sleep and live normally again. She will learn to smile and laugh again. And I can say with almost 100 percent surety, that she will one day love again.

 

It will not be easy for her, but one day she will wake up and find that you are not her first thought. She will start to have days that she doesn't think of you at all. She will start to feel connected to other people, and she will survive this.

 

When you start to really believe that, you will be able to start to move forward in your own healing.

 

Now, I really have to go to work....

 

Hope your today is better than your yesterday, and that your tomorrow is better than your today....

 

Hugs again, FA

Great post FA. When she does find someone new, I hope she can send an anonymous internet message out saying she hopes MM finds comfort in knowing she moved on. And I sincerely hope that brings him comfort.

 

I know I'm coming late to this thread, but welcome, BHMM.

 

 

 

BH, you probably don't mean it as such, but have you considered how insulting this is from your OW's perspective? That - if some other woman didn't want you, she'd finally be good enough for you? That she wasn't good enough to choose of your own free will, but you'd settle for her if you couldn't get your first choice? Have you considered that, if it did happen that your BW found out and kicked you out, and you went to your OW, chances are she'd send you packing, too?

 

BH no woman wants to be second choice. No woman wants to get the consolation prize. Every woman wants to be with someone who chooses to be with them. And you've denied both women this option. You haven't chosen to be with your BW - you've chosen to be with your kids, and your BW is part of that equation, so she gets you by default. If - or when - she finds that out, don't expect relief, sympathy or understanding. Expect hurt, anger and possibly rejection. You have put her in a position no woman wants to be in.

 

And you haven't chosen to be with your OW. If you do go to her now, because your BW kicks you out, she would also get you by default. And she will not offer relief, sympathy or understanding either - she will be angry that she's good enough to be a soft landing, but not good enough to be your first choice.

 

If I were either of those women, my fury would know no bounds.

 

You're doing neither of them a favour, and I hope you're honest enough with yourself to recognise that this is, ultimately, all about you. You're projecting what you think would be best for your kids, without actually asking them or exploring the options with a family counsellor. You're second-guessing, based on your own projections. My H did that too, for years, before he finally got the courage together to leave his BW. But before he left, he spoke to them about it and they supported him in leaving. They're far happier how - we all are. My father, OTOH, stayed "for the kids" until we were all grown - and not one of us thought that he did the right thing for us. It was the right thing for him - he got to fulfill his duty and do what a man should do - but we spared no opportunity to tell him again and again that it was a selfish choice, taken in his interest only, and not in ours. Whether or not your kids feel similarly later, only time will tell - but you need to be honest at this point and admit to yourself that your choices are about your own happiness and your own projection about theirs, and not actually about their reality (nor anyone else's).

 

Don't expect any thanks for your "sacrifice", is all I'm saying - if you're not getting enough satisfaction from having done it for yourself, then you'd be wise to reconsider, or you're likely to land up old and embittered, judged and pitied by those you thought you were doing such a favour by deciding for them what you thought would be best...

 

Good luck. I hope you can make it work out for you somehow. And I hope those you love can learn to live with your choices, ultimately.

As always, excellent excellent excellent.

Spoken perfectly...I couldn't have said it better. Thank you for sharing this OWoman....I would not want to be this guy right now....taking the path of least resistance. UGH

I took the hardest road, as did you C4N. And what did it get us?

 

Hey, even if I didn't end up with MM I can always feel proud that I did what was right by me, my kids, AND the man I love. He can't say that, not yet anyway.

Yes, a lot of what you described could apply to me. I shared a lot of my most private, hidden parts of myself with OW, which helped build that bond we shared.

Will you ever achieve that intimate bond with your W? And how long are you willing to experiement with building it before you give up?

 

Well in my situation..I didn't have that type of discussion with my kids..They were wondering why DAD hasn't left in a long time. I actually did pull the family together to have a discussion with my xW there with the kids...what ended up happening was my kids pretty much articulated what I was saying to my xW about for YEARS!!! meaning our issues... I was so proud of my kids they were all so right on with their words...only to have my xW the next day say I obviously brained washed them... Wow she couldn't even give my own kids credit. SAD

This is exactly what happened to me. It as my kids who wanted us to D, and claim to be happier than ever. At least they don't feel the tension in the house all the time, nor do they see him treating me disrespectfully. Sometimes life is better after D.

[desertmoon]

Still lying, still hiding. And this is the man that is trying to rebuild his marriage.

 

Goodness gracious! The man wants to post and vent anonymously and you accuse him of lying and hiding.

 

Most of us are here and significant people in our lives do not know because we want to be free to vent...to be just be...to exhale...

 

You owe him an apology...gosh, so rude

[desertmoon]

BHMM, look you need to do what are able to...capable of..since you have decided to stay in you marriage, then work on it-one day at a time. These people DEMANDING that you prove to them you are "working" on your marriage are out of line. I do not envy your situation, as you are not only mourning the end of your relationship with the OW but you are also tasked with making your marriage work. I am not a huge believer in IC( individual counseling) but it has work for many, might for you.

 

While you are trying to heal from the demise of your affair, please remember, however, that your wife is very aware of you-your sadness, your anger, your bitterness, your confusion, etc.etc. Do not be surprised that while you are healing and taking it one day at a time---she too, is trying to make sense of all these and might actually decide to leave and then it might be too late for you. What I am trying to say is, sure ,take your time healing from your broken affair but also keep in mind that there is a marriage (kids and wife) that needs you fully engaged with them and if you are not, you might just lose them.

 

Let me ask you something, I read somewhere that you have tried to leave the marriage before and have talked to your wife about it and all she did was cry...It is very curious as it seems to me your wife is willing to have you even though something is obviously amiss in your marriage. Did she not pursue the subject? ask relevant questions? demand answers?

[eleanorrigby]

Goodness gracious! The man wants to post and vent anonymously and you accuse him of lying and hiding.

 

Most of us are here and significant people in our lives do not know because we want to be free to vent...to be just be...to exhale...

 

You owe him an apology...gosh, so rude

i messed up did not include a quote. I was referring to him not wanting to have loveshack show up on his credit card. This is still lying and hiding behavior and it's not going to help him reconcile.

 

oh wait.. nope the quote I thought i put in there is there. And I stand by my statement.

Edited September 2, 2010 by eleanorrigby

[September]

Or maybe she mourned the R, decided not to be a party to his so-so lifestyle and moved on?

 

Maybe she is out celebrating her new life and meeting someone new? Moving forward. She could be out dancing instead of sitting in front of a computer screen.

 

I hope she is, don't you?

 

Emmy

 

I absolutely hope she is out having the time of her life and doing everything in her power to try and move on. In all honesty, I doubt it though. It is very hard to move on so quickly and easily. God knows, I have tried!

[desertmoon]

i messed up did not include a quote. I was referring to him not wanting to have loveshack show up on his credit card. This is still lying and hiding behavior and it's not going to help him reconcile.

 

oh wait.. nope the quote I thought i put in there is there. And I stand by my statement.

 

Is your username your real name? if not then you are hiding. Who are you hiding from and deceiving? This is place where people can vent, ask questions, get answers, etc. in privacy. Not very unlike counseling-where privacy is guarded.

 

You stand by you statement? then you know what you are

[eleanorrigby]

Is your username your real name? if not then you are hiding. Who are you hiding from and deceiving? This is place where people can vent, ask questions, get answers, etc. in privacy. Not very unlike counseling-where privacy is guarded.

 

You stand by you statement? then you know what you are

 

I'm not talking about him guarding his privacy on the net. I'm talking about how lies and hiding things from his wife and how that's not going to help his marriage. All those little things like shutting the page down when his wife comes into the room, having to clear his history and her noticing that. These are all the things he will have to do and continue to do if he does not come clean to her. He's not the only one that is going to have to bear the weight of his lies.. his wife will unknowingly and that is going to continue to eat away at what is left of the marriage.

[woinlove]

My husband and I stayed in our "marriage" for our child until she was old enought for a serious talk. We did not have loud arguments and such. Our daughter is doing very well so far. She is a very good student, with a kind heart. She is also quite popular among her peers. My H and I finally divorced last year. My daughter only wants her us to be happy but she is also assured that we will always be a "family'. For the university's parent orientation days, her father (now my xH) and I went and it was very nice.

 

BHMM has made it clear he does not want the situation you describe. There is no H and W staying in the marriage for a child in what BHMM wants. He wants to stay in the M for the children but doesn't want his W to know this is the reason for their M. He doesn't plan any "serious talk". His OW or someone else would have to do that for him. He wants to continue to lie. It sounds like your child at least had parents acting like a team if it was really both your H and you staying in the marriage for the child. If you child didn't have the example of a M built on love, she at least had the example of an M with respect. BHMM wants to run the show, being the only one in the know and deciding what is best for his W and M. That is clearly not treating his W with respect, and it will come out in a multitude of ways in his family life, so his children will not have that example either.

[woinlove]

maybe this MM knows his OW is here and this is his way of communicating with her.

 

it seems that a MM who intended to end the A and stay in his M as his top priority would be focusing all his time and energy on how to FIX his M - not post about his long lost OW.

 

IF you intend to stay married - how about putting forth your efforts into finding a more productive way to be happy in your M - that YOU chose.

 

is your OW here on this forum - it looks that way to me...

 

BHMM made it clear that he was posting here for OW, ideally his own, but also OW in general who wonder what their MM feels and thinks when he decides to stay with his W and end the A. If you read his posts keeping that lens in mind, it all makes sense. As others have pointed out, if his goal in posting here was to improve his M, he would not be posting in the OW/OM forum.

 

It is interesting that some OW find his posts very reassuring, the idea that he loves his OW and not his W even though he has chosen his W instead of his OW, while others do not. Perhaps it depends whether one puts more weight on actions or on words. Personally, I'm not sure why anyone would put more weight on words for a person who admits he has lied successfully for over 3 years and continues to. But, to each his/her own!

[xxoo]

Originally Posted by BHMM

Yes, a lot of what you described could apply to me. I shared a lot of my most private, hidden parts of myself with OW, which helped build that bond we shared.

 

Will you ever achieve that intimate bond with your W?

 

It would require sharing a lot of his "most private, hidden parts" of himself with his wife, as he did with his OW.

 

But he is saying he is unwilling to do so, because they never have been that way together. And, because it would require coming clean about the affair.

 

So, likely no, he won't. It is a shame he won't consider doing what is needed to give his marriage a fair shot at true intimacy and connection. Seems like he is wasting some more of his wife's time.

[woinlove]

 

Seems like he is wasting some more of his wife's time.

 

Yes, I couldn't find any notable consideration or respect shown for his W in BHMM's posts. His argument that the continuing deceit is for the benefit of his W helps his own feelings of self-worth, while diminishing his W's. But, again, this thread was started for OW (and presumably, for himself) so that explains the focus.