A MM's perspective

[BHMM]

just pointing out how most MM use words that don't equal there actions which in turn is simply a form of lying.

 

IF you intend to work on your M - then start thinking more of your W than your OW.

I am working on that.

 

start spending ALL your time, effort and energy doing things that reconnect you both physically, mentally and emotionally.

 

going on and on here about your feelings for your OW isn't exactly accomplishing what you need to do to make your marriage work.

I am responding to questions about my situation. It doesn't mean I spend every second of the day obsessing over OW. Some days are better than others. I noted earlier in the thread that it's gotten more difficult the past few weeks for some reason, which was my impetus to post, in hopes of getting some of those feelings purged, and maybe getting some answers as to why I like I had moved on a month ago, and suddenly started to feel like I was regressing.

If you think this thread should end because its existence is not conducive to rebuilding my M, then I guess that's your opinion. I need a place to vent, just like all of us here do.

 

you will only get out of your M what YOU put into it... i'd say start with honesty.

 

start by telling your W that you have been emotionally absent for the past three years and wish to reconnect to make the M the best it can possibly be. IF and since she has no idea that your mind and heart have been with someone else then it's not fair to her to think that the M has been inadequate. how can you possibly be connected to her if you have emotions for someone else? how can she be expected to read your mind? how can you short change your W when you say you love her and intend to be with her forever?

 

it's simply unfair to her for YOU to expect great things when she hasn't a clue as to what you may or may not intend to do with the M. being present isn't enough for a M in disrepair... she needs to know that you feel something is missing so you can BOTH work towards that common goal = making the M the best it can possibly be...

 

and if you think she doesn't know - think again... they always know something is "off." has she asked you over the past several years why you are distant, etc?

Yes, I'm sure she knows something is off. I will try to open a dialogue with her.

[woinlove]

Thanks CCL. And that is good advice, I was thinking about bringing it up with W in a similar way, just to open to the doors to discussion.

 

I really don't understand how this will work - opening up with your W but not being honest about the A. When another poster asked you if you would come clean if your W asked you, you responded:

 

"I wouldn't admit it if she asked."

 

Wouldn't opening up and discussing with your W issues that you have with yourself make it more likely you will need to even more directly deceive your W to keep the A secret? And, if so, isn't this driving more of a wedge between you two rather than moving you closer together?

 

Perhaps CCL and others who have advised that BHMM open up with his W, someone even suggesting that he discuss the parts of him he discovered with his OW, but still keep the A a secret, can shed some light on how this works. Does it really bring the two closer or will the W just have more self-doubts and more reason to withdraw because of the sense that something is off?

 

Has anyone been on the giving or receiving end of this (supposedly opening up and sharing, but hiding a long-term, full-blown recent love affair)? If so, how did that work out?

[whichwayisup]

"The A is over and it's not coming back" Why do you always say this with such conviction? Did you have an "ugly" ending? I’m curious to know what you did to guarantee NC……

 

This is an excellent question.

 

Have you blocked her through email, or changed your email address? I just ask because what if she does tries to contact you, or just write to you (that closure thing) hoping you'll react, to see "how serious" you actually are about the A being really over. From what I've read on LS, MM/OW, MW/OM, MW/MM when an A is over, it takes alot longer than 11 weeks to know if contact is truly over. Most cave, and need to have and feel that connection again, even if it's just through email or a text.

 

What IF she did contact you? Would you answer the phone? Delete her email without reading it? Read it and not reply?

 

It is a test of your strength, your character and definately puts you in a position to see how you'd deal/react to her reaching out to you.

 

Did you ever read that link I posted early on in your thread? The guide to NC by No Foolin'? If not, go read it.

[White Flower]

I really don't understand how this will work - opening up with your W but not being honest about the A. When another poster asked you if you would come clean if your W asked you, you responded:

 

"I wouldn't admit it if she asked."

 

Wouldn't opening up and discussing with your W issues that you have with yourself make it more likely you will need to even more directly deceive your W to keep the A secret? And, if so, isn't this driving more of a wedge between you two rather than moving you closer together?

 

Perhaps CCL and others who have advised that BHMM open up with his W, someone even suggesting that he discuss the parts of him he discovered with his OW, but still keep the A a secret, can shed some light on how this works. Does it really bring the two closer or will the W just have more self-doubts and more reason to withdraw because of the sense that something is off?

 

Has anyone been on the giving or receiving end of this (supposedly opening up and sharing, but hiding a long-term, full-blown recent love affair)? If so, how did that work out?

woinlove you make a valid point. I can't for the life of me see BHMM making the deepest connection possible without confessing all to the woman he loves, whoever that is. Yet, I admit, there are SOME things I even held back from MM, hoping to tell him more once we were together full time. I wanted to save some surprises for later.

 

Maybe BHMM will try doing that?

[whichwayisup]

I just don't have the time to read the entire thread, so forgive me if this is a repeat, but go search for threads by Devil Inside.

 

Stick to just reading BHMM's posts and replies,bypass everything else, it'll be faster.

 

BHMM, have you started any form of counseling? If no, please consider it. Make sure you seek a Marriage Counselor, not just a "therapist".

[BHMM]

Finally! A fOW that will call the OP on his BS (not betrayed spouse)!STOP your boo-hooing. Do you know what the word honor means? You, sir, are not doing a thing to honor the people in your life. Not the wifey, not the OW and certainly not your kiddies. Do you really think you are being a good role model?

No, but I'm trying to do the best that I can to become one.

 

Do you know what a user is? I hope you do. So far you've managed to use your wife to raise your kids, use your OW for your pleasure, use your kids for your ego, and use us here at Loveshack to read your whining. Who is next?

No one's forcing you to read my "whining". Anyway, doesn't everyone come here to whine, to some degree?

 

GEL is right. Your OW deserves better and so do your wife and kids. So do we! I won't discourage your from posting; don't misunderstand. I encourage you to take action. Stop talking. Start doing.

 

Time to man up.

 

Emmy

That's what I'm trying to do. I ended the A, I went NC, and I'm redevoting myself to my W and M. Again, just because I'm posting here and answering honestly about my situation doesn't mean I'm not working on my M.

[White Flower]

Stick to just reading BHMM's posts and replies,bypass everything else, it'll be faster.

 

BHMM, have you started any form of counseling? If no, please consider it. Make sure you seek a Marriage Counselor, not just a "therapist".

LOL, always good advice from someone who has over 37,000 posts!

 

Yes BHMM, I think counseling is in order for the day, perhaps MC as well as IC.

[BHMM]

If she is feeling anywhere how I have felt and still feel, she will most likely come across this thread - at some stage.

 

Even though she knows it is over, in her mind, she will be questioning the why's and how's. Why didn't he love me enough to leave and be with me? Why did he promise so much? Why did he waste my time when he didn't have any intentions of leaving? How can he sleep with his wife? Does he think of me? Does he miss me? How can he walk around pretending that he is happy? What is their sex life like? A billion questions constantly flying around. I searched the internet high and low trying to find answers and eventually came across LS. I wish I had found it sooner. It took me 6 months. Eventually if she is wanting answers, she will find it too.

 

She will have her extreme high's and low's too. She will be angry, desperate, incredibly lonely, confused. The cord has been cut. The man she spoke to all day and at times night, has dropped her like a hot cake, given up on the woman he told over and over he loved and couldn't be without. She probably feels duped, silly, gullible. She will feel anxious and lie there at night fretting about you being intimate with your wife, touching, kissing and loving the very woman you told her you didn't have intimate feelings for anymore (it was only xOW that made you feel that way). It will take her a very long time to get over you, the very idea of you and the dreams she had for both of you.

 

If she is anything like me, she is completely and utterly heartbroken...

Thanks for posting your perspective September. I'm sorry for what you're going through, and I sincerely hope you can heal and move on.

[BHMM]

Because they are two different entities. They are not equals. The dynamics of the relationship is very different. I love my child more than anything and anyone in this world. Staying in my marriage was not a sacrifice, it was the thing to do. My exH loves our child, too, but he was a serial cheater and it had nothing to do with his kid. We both decided because we loved our child that we were going to be cordial and civil and we were.

 

Somebody mentioned something about what a burden it is to the child if he finds out the parent stayed in the marriage because of him. That's hogwash! I told my child I stayed, because making sure that she had an intact family growing up was important to me and doing what's important to me, made me happy.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, desertmoon, I'm glad you're posting.

[whichwayisup]

LOL, always good advice from someone who has over 37,000 posts!

 

Yes BHMM, I think counseling is in order for the day, perhaps MC as well as IC.

 

You are adorable.

 

He should go on his own for a while, straighten himself out, get stronger and then go with his wife.

 

Whatever problems that were/are going on before he chose to cheat and have an affair, and issues he has inside himself are NOT going to go away until he faces consquences and suffers abit. People don't change unless they have to .. Which is WHY so many are pushing you to tell your wife the truth.

[Confused4Now]

Yes, that statement really jumped out. Young children are so trusting, it is really sad to see this taken for granted in such a cavalier manner. Why isn't his heart breaking over recognizing this innocent and undeserved trust? BHMM should be ever so grateful that his children are not old enough to have figured out the truth. With teens, it can take well into their adult years to rebuild a good relationship after having neglected them for an AP.

 

I agree with SG that for someone who apparently has decided to work on your M, BHMM, you don't seem to be in any hurry to get started. You seem to take your family for granted. Don't you think you've pushed your luck far enough if they are as important to you as you say?

Sorry but I have to agree with SG and I'm sure Stampdaddy would have said the same thing. Thank God there was no AP in my life when my teen kids saw what was going on with in my M before I met my AP. Funny when my xW throws my dirt to the kids they always come back to her and say "sorry mom...dad was more of a parent to us than you"...she then shuts up.

[White Flower]

You are adorable.

 

He should go on his own for a while, straighten himself out, get stronger and then go with his wife.

 

Whatever problems that were/are going on before he chose to cheat and have an affair, and issues he has inside himself are NOT going to go away until he faces consquences and suffers abit. People don't change unless they have to .. Which is WHY so many are pushing you to tell your wife the truth.

The most excellent of points. We resist change unless pushed.

[BHMM]

Great post FA. When she does find someone new, I hope she can send an anonymous internet message out saying she hopes MM finds comfort in knowing she moved on. And I sincerely hope that brings him comfort.

Thanks for that sentiment.

 

Hey, even if I didn't end up with MM I can always feel proud that I did what was right by me, my kids, AND the man I love. He can't say that, not yet anyway.

Will you ever achieve that intimate bond with your W? And how long are you willing to experiement with building it before you give up?

I honestly don't know.

[woinlove]

woinlove you make a valid point. I can't for the life of me see BHMM making the deepest connection possible without confessing all to the woman he loves, whoever that is. Yet, I admit, there are SOME things I even held back from MM, hoping to tell him more once we were together full time. I wanted to save some surprises for later.

 

Maybe BHMM will try doing that?

 

How extensive were the things you held back and how central were they to things you discussed and did they actually cause you to deepen a deception?

 

I can see opening up and establishing intimacy while hiding a ONS or a brief A (not my personal style, but I can at least understand).

 

I can't see supposedly opening up while having to rewrite and edit everything over the past 3+ years, particularly since those are the years that BHMM has experienced all these new feelings and thoughts. This is not just saving some things. This is presenting a rewritten version of years of what was assumed to be shared family life.

 

Having said that, if anyone can enlighten me as to how this might work, I am all ears (or eyes). I'm always up for learning something new.

[BHMM]

BHMM, look you need to do what are able to...capable of..since you have decided to stay in you marriage, then work on it-one day at a time. These people DEMANDING that you prove to them you are "working" on your marriage are out of line. I do not envy your situation, as you are not only mourning the end of your relationship with the OW but you are also tasked with making your marriage work. I am not a huge believer in IC( individual counseling) but it has work for many, might for you.

Thanks for this, and for understanding where I am right now.

 

While you are trying to heal from the demise of your affair, please remember, however, that your wife is very aware of you-your sadness, your anger, your bitterness, your confusion, etc.etc. Do not be surprised that while you are healing and taking it one day at a time---she too, is trying to make sense of all these and might actually decide to leave and then it might be too late for you. What I am trying to say is, sure ,take your time healing from your broken affair but also keep in mind that there is a marriage (kids and wife) that needs you fully engaged with them and if you are not, you might just lose them.

I know she is aware, and I am trying to be full present in the M and the family. Despite my scores of posts on LS over the past few days, I am still spending the great majority of my free time engaged with my W and kids.

 

Let me ask you something, I read somewhere that you have tried to leave the marriage before and have talked to your wife about it and all she did was cry...It is very curious as it seems to me your wife is willing to have you even though something is obviously amiss in your marriage. Did she not pursue the subject? ask relevant questions? demand answers?

She asked if I was having an A once, a couple years ago, and I denied it. Since then it's just been brief conversations about my distance and malaise. Some of the things I'm trying to rectify.

 

So if she suspects or knows about the A (I wouldn't be surprised at either), then she's keeping it to herself.

[Ellin]

BHMM, you just said: I don't expect thanks from anyone. I am very happy and satisfied to see my kids enjoy spending more time with me.

 

That makes me angry enough to cyber-slap you. Seriously. Three years you're not around for them as much as you could be and NOW you're happy they're seeing more of their dad??? Oh gawd...

Gosh Silly Girl! So do you think he should stay away from his kids forever because he did it in the past?

 

I just don't get this bloodthirsty attitude that want him to... I don't know, pay for his "crimes", endlessly repent, hit his chest? Why can he do to satisfy you, why can't he just move on and try to do things better from now on?

 

And while on this note (not replying to your post SG any more), so many people are demanding he did something extraordinary to prove how he's mending his marriage. It's all very raw still, the journey has just begun. He can't put 100% effort into his M right now, because his in so much pain - it just wouldn't be possible no matter how much he tried.

 

It will take time and as time will slowly heal, he will be able to put more energy into his M and take more action, but he can only do what he can do - in matters of emotion we cannot FORCE ourselves.

 

One day at a time, he's doing what he can do at the moment, at his own pace, but good intentions are there for sure.

[Ellin]

Yes, that statement really jumped out. Young children are so trusting, it is really sad to see this taken for granted in such a cavalier manner. Why isn't his heart breaking over recognizing this innocent and undeserved trust?

 

Who told you his heart isn't breaking over this???

[BHMM]

BHMM made it clear that he was posting here for OW, ideally his own, but also OW in general who wonder what their MM feels and thinks when he decides to stay with his W and end the A. If you read his posts keeping that lens in mind, it all makes sense. As others have pointed out, if his goal in posting here was to improve his M, he would not be posting in the OW/OM forum.

Again, why are my posting here and trying to rebuild my M mutually exclusive pursuits? I would have all the same feelings I'm posting about regardless of whether or not I was sharing them with LS.

If this thread continues to grow and can't keep up with it without devoting more time to it, I might at that point make the decision to stop responding.

 

It is interesting that some OW find his posts very reassuring, the idea that he loves his OW and not his W even though he has chosen his W instead of his OW, while others do not. Perhaps it depends whether one puts more weight on actions or on words. Personally, I'm not sure why anyone would put more weight on words for a person who admits he has lied successfully for over 3 years and continues to. But, to each his/her own!

I meant everything I said in my OP. If you think I'm lying or trying to play some kind of trick with that post, then so be it.

[White Flower]

How extensive were the things you held back and how central were they to things you discussed and did they actually cause you to deepen a deception?

 

I can see opening up and establishing intimacy while hiding a ONS or a brief A (not my personal style, but I can at least understand).

 

I can't see supposedly opening up while having to rewrite and edit everything over the past 3+ years, particularly since those are the years that BHMM has experienced all these new feelings and thoughts. This is not just saving some things. This is presenting a rewritten version of years of what was assumed to be shared family life.

 

Having said that, if anyone can enlighten me as to how this might work, I am all ears (or eyes). I'm always up for learning something new.

I'll try to be brief because this is BH's thread but maybe it will be helpful to him.

 

I never deceived MM but I did hold back a few things, but not many! I am a VERY open, honest person especially with my lover.

 

I think mystery is a good thing in any R because it promises good things to come, surprises in the bedroom, etc., and there was a whole world of surprises my MM would have benefitted from had he/if he makes the move to be with me...and I never openly made those declarations or promises because I enjoy the element of surprise.

 

But one must be careful because if you're too mysterious then you compromise the level of intimacy that is shared.

 

I think in BH's case, he should admit the A in order to develop the deepest intimacy possible. It was only when MM opened up all his cheating experiences with me that he saw true understanding, forgiveness, and acceptance. He maintains he will never have that with his W.

[Brokenlady]

She asked if I was having an A once, a couple years ago, and I denied it. Since then it's just been brief conversations about my distance and malaise. Some of the things I'm trying to rectify.

 

So if she suspects or knows about the A (I wouldn't be surprised at either), then she's keeping it to herself.

 

Well, you're gaslighting the hell out of her, which is far worse than the affair itself. And you apparently plan to continue. You really ought to consider how awful it is to try to make your W doubt herself when she can sense you were cheating. That is SO wrong on so many levels.

 

It is easy - terribly easy - to shake a man's faith in himself. To take advantage of that, to break a man's spirit is devil's work.

- George Bernard Shaw

[Silly_Girl]

Gosh Silly Girl! So do you think he should stay away from his kids forever because he did it in the past?

 

Aw, come on Ellin. I'm pointing it out as a very stark statement which to me signifies how much he has taken his family for granted and now is his wake-up call. Which he can use, or squander. I'm frustrated with/for him. Can you tell?!

 

I just don't get this bloodthirsty attitude that want him to... I don't know, pay for his "crimes", endlessly repent, hit his chest? Why can he do to satisfy you, why can't he just move on and try to do things better from now on?

 

Yes, why can't he? That's what I'm asking him. Why can't he do all he needs to do for the sake of those around him?

 

And while on this note (not replying to your post SG any more), so many people are demanding he did something extraordinary to prove how he's mending his marriage. It's all very raw still, the journey has just begun. He can't put 100% effort into his M right now, because his in so much pain - it just wouldn't be possible no matter how much he tried.

 

Well, maybe not as much pain as his wife would be in if she knew he'd decided to put someone else ahead of her and their kids. yes, we all get he's in pain. I REALLY feel for the guy, but his pain is his issue for him to get help with. In the meantime he needs to buck up and start fixing things. Which he may well be doing. I am not saying he's not. I have only said that I don't get that impression from his posts. It all feels very introspective and theoretical. If he can't Do the Do then he's wasting his wife's time and should move on alone.

 

It will take time and as time will slowly heal, he will be able to put more energy into his M and take more action, but he can only do what he can do - in matters of emotion we cannot FORCE ourselves.

 

One day at a time, he's doing what he can do at the moment, at his own pace, but good intentions are there for sure.

 

I just feel so much for his wife, Ellin. I have sympathy for BHMM but at the end of the day no one has put him here but him. And yes, he does have to FORCE himself in my view. It's really REALLY hard, I know. But if the will is there it can be done. However, if the will is not there...

[BHMM]

Today is going to be a better day, some are just harder than others. Glad yours was okay..

Nicely put. Hang in there!

[BHMM]

BHMM, you just said: I don't expect thanks from anyone. I am very happy and satisfied to see my kids enjoy spending more time with me.

 

That makes me angry enough to cyber-slap you. Seriously. Three years you're not around for them as much as you could be and NOW you're happy they're seeing more of their dad??? Oh gawd...

Of course I'm happy they're seeing more of me, what kind of question is that? What do you suggest I should have done, just given up? "Well, it's been three years of half-ass parenting, I may as well throw in the towel and never come back." I understand a lot of the anger sent my way, but calling me out for this, I don't get.

 

You must really hate yourself right now.

Pretty much.

 

My problem with you is that you have played God with all these people's lives. You've had 11 weeks of NC to sort your gameplan out and start making efforts towards your marriage. And it seems (to me) as if you've done nothing and are still moping.

It may seem like I'm doing nothing because this is an internet message board, and it's pretty one-dimensional. I know what I am doing in my M and progress I am making, even if I can't articulate it or post explicitly about it in this thread.

 

I TOTALLY understand you're cut up and your BH in BHMM stands for Broken Hearted, but you've had your fun and games. And you've had the chance to think about things. You should be literally chomping at the bit to get stuck in to your marital problems.

I am doing that. That is why I ended the A, to work on and try to recover the M.

 

You should have at least started some counselling. You should have enquired as to cost and lead times on marriage counselling. You should have spoken to your wife about you having had a difficult patch (or something which gives rise to some candid, constructive exchanges). You should be ON YOUR WAY. Baby step by baby step, yes, but you should still be on the path.

I am looking into counseling, and I am on the path. Again, just because I'm not giving detailed analysis of every conversation I have with my W and a graph diagramming the amount of time we're spending together now vs. 6 months ago, doesn't mean there hasn't been effort or progress. I'm posting a lot about exOW because a lot of the questions have been about her. It is a transition. I ended the A and am enforcing NC. I am living with my W and spending all my free time with her, and opening up to her more and more. That's progress to me. If that's not enough for you, too bad.

 

You should not be hanging around here 'commiserating' (your term) by PM with the OP's who are mourning their loss. You have a great chance here, to build a family life. You have a good wife, and kids you love very much. I think you're being far too self-indulgent and now you've made your choice and broken your OW's heart, and stuffed your wife around for years I think you need to step up and get this show on the road!!!!!

See above.

 

I'm sorry if you think I've been disrespectful, but I am often dismayed at your attitude and if you're adamant at which path you're on then get on it, your whole self, and show us what you CAN do when you put your mind to it. Let's hear how good things are going to be for you and your wife; let's hear the progress and the effort you are making whilst you 'fake it 'til you make it'.

Things aren't that good with us yet. But I'm getting there. It is a process. Again, if this doesn't satisfy you, that's your problem.

 

I am suspicious of you because I don't think your heart is in your marriage at all and I want you to prove me wrong and I want all of you to wind up in a much better place.

Some of it is there, and I'm working to get it all back in the M. I think I will prove you wrong.

[BHMM]

...And breeeeaaatthe

 

By the way - still rooting for you!

LOL, thanks.

[BHMM]

Yes, that statement really jumped out. Young children are so trusting, it is really sad to see this taken for granted in such a cavalier manner. Why isn't his heart breaking over recognizing this innocent and undeserved trust?

Who said it isn't?

 

BHMM should be ever so grateful that his children are not old enough to have figured out the truth. With teens, it can take well into their adult years to rebuild a good relationship after having neglected them for an AP.

I am.

 

I agree with SG that for someone who apparently has decided to work on your M, BHMM, you don't seem to be in any hurry to get started. You seem to take your family for granted. Don't you think you've pushed your luck far enough if they are as important to you as you say?

It doesn't seem that way because all you are seeing are my posts. The other 22 hours of the day I am engaged in real life with my family (or sleeping). I know what progress is being made. Just because you can't see it and my vague answers about the specific steps I'm taking doesn't mean there isn't progress. I'm in a tough place right now and I'm trying to fight through it. I'm not saying that for sympathy, I'm telling you how it is.