A MM's perspective

[BHMM]

It has nothing to do with the OW as a person. She was "safe" to confide in. If she rejected you, no one would know it because your relationship was a secret anyway and you could blame her rejection of you on your marital status rather than yourself. It sounds like you got some serious issues with intimacy, which likely has much to do with why your M struggled in the 1st place.

Maybe you're right. I'll have to give this some thought.

 

Are you in therapy for yourself yet? I think it's probably more important for you to do this than go to marriage counseling right now.

No, but I am looking into it and will hopefully start soon.

 

For record, I applaud you for making a choice, any choice at all. So many MM flounder and don't decide. I regret that I think you made the "easier", less personally disruptive choice for entirely the wrong reason, but nevertheless, you made a choice. Good for you.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

[BHMM]

Altruistic all the way, but mostly for yourself. W wins the H, kids win the F, OW wins her freedom of time being wasted, and you look like the guy who did right by all.

Not my perspective at all. I sure as hell don't feel like "the guy who did right by all," not by a long shot.

 

There is another way by doing right by all, including being truly happy BH. Your W could be getting the freedom of time being wasted, your OW could get to be with someone who truly loves her, your kids would see a very happy daddy, one with love in his eyes and not constant guilt, and YOU would be serving everyone best because YOU would be happy too.

 

Just another way to look at it.

Yeah, that is another way of looking at it.

 

I'm not so sure you kept parts of yourself hidden in the M to 'just maybe maintain some sense of an individual identity'. I think you found you couldn't trust your wife completely enough to be yourself without being judged by her. She doesn't make it safe for you BH.

No, I know that part of me. I like keeping a chunk of myself for myself. That's how I am, and that's primarily why I did it.

 

Is it possible for you to try that route? Try opening up to her and see where it gets you? Tell her you didn't find that safe place with her and offer her the chance at making it so. Either it works or it doesn't.

I don't know. That seems really far off right now. But I will try.

[BHMM]

"The A is over and it's not coming back" Why do you always say this with such conviction? Did you have an "ugly" ending? I’m curious to know what you did to guarantee NC……

It wasn't an ugly ending. I just know how I am. It's over.

[BHMM]

Just to defend BHMM here.

 

His OP was to say yes, MM feel pain too. Their love lingers long after the A has ended.

 

I'm pretty sure that was all he wanted to say. But we all dug at him with our questions and the thread morphed. That doesn't mean he is intentionally dwelling on OW. It just means we keep bringing up the subject.

 

Now back on topic, whichever THAT has turned out to be...

Exactly. Thanks WF.

[BHMM]

This is an excellent question.

 

Have you blocked her through email, or changed your email address? I just ask because what if she does tries to contact you, or just write to you (that closure thing) hoping you'll react, to see "how serious" you actually are about the A being really over. From what I've read on LS, MM/OW, MW/OM, MW/MM when an A is over, it takes alot longer than 11 weeks to know if contact is truly over. Most cave, and need to have and feel that connection again, even if it's just through email or a text.

 

What IF she did contact you? Would you answer the phone? Delete her email without reading it? Read it and not reply?

 

It is a test of your strength, your character and definately puts you in a position to see how you'd deal/react to her reaching out to you.

 

Did you ever read that link I posted early on in your thread? The guide to NC by No Foolin'? If not, go read it.

I did read the NC post, it was great. I bookmarked it.

 

I can't ensure that she won't contact me, but I'm not going to contact her. We're both stubborn and I don't see either of reaching out to the other, let alone backsliding. I don't know how I'd respond if she emailed me. If she was just seeking closure, I might respond. But it's honestly not a big concern of mine right now. If it happens I'll deal with it then. But I still say it's very unlikely.

[BHMM]

I think it's very important to dedicate yourself to making your M a good one since you decided to stay in it. Having said that though, I don't believe for one second that it's as simple as some may be suggesting.

 

You'll have to work through this and of course there will be residual feelings for OW that will take time to fade. Making the commitment to your M, taking steps to improve it and yourself, and staying NC with OW are all steps in the right direction. Don't let people minimize what you ARE doing to make it right.

Thanks for that.

 

Every person is on this board for a reason. Talking about how you feel and what you're going through is theraputic. Even though my A has been over for well over a year, I still post a new thread here from time to time. Sometimes it's just to give some perspective and sometimes it's to iron out some residual issue that's there. I get challenged as to why I still even post about the A, but I don't care. This is my avenue to explore to help ME. If it irks someone else, sorry lol. Hopefully it will help more people than it annoys

Good for you, sadintexas. It has been therapeutic for me too. Some people seem to think posting on here means I'm not working on my M. If I get to the point where this thread becomes overwhelming and I feel like it is affecting my ability to focus on my M and real life, I'll let it go.

 

Thanks for the kind words and support.

[BHMM]

BHMM, have you started any form of counseling? If no, please consider it. Make sure you seek a Marriage Counselor, not just a "therapist".

Not yet, but I'm looking into it.

 

I was thinking of IC. Is there really a point to MC when I know I'm not going to admit the A? (Honest question.)

[ladydesigner]

I haven't read through all of this thread as it is so long, but from another xWS. I believe that you can recover your M because YOU want to. Now if you are thinking you HAVE to then I'm not so sure. I wanted my M to recover even during my A. I did not want to feel the way I was feeling. Since my H's D-day and my own A ending we have worked very hard on our M. I am also in the camp of not telling. Unfortunately I found out about my H's A and then embarked on my own A, and fell for my XOM. I have not told my H.

 

The turning point was when I finally let go of my feelings for XOM that is when the real progress started. I don't think a M can recover until that takes place. I love my H and would give the world to him now. XOM is just a blip in my memory. Sometimes I think it takes an A to rattle a bad M into recovery. I know it did mine. I am to blame for my H's A as much as he is.

 

I hope that you can find that will to save your M in yourself otherwise I am not sure you will be happy. Find what it is that you fell in love with your wife for. I thought I would never get that back for my H, but I did. It is possible.

[BHMM]

Gosh Silly Girl! So do you think he should stay away from his kids forever because he did it in the past?

 

I just don't get this bloodthirsty attitude that want him to... I don't know, pay for his "crimes", endlessly repent, hit his chest? Why can he do to satisfy you, why can't he just move on and try to do things better from now on?

 

And while on this note (not replying to your post SG any more), so many people are demanding he did something extraordinary to prove how he's mending his marriage. It's all very raw still, the journey has just begun. He can't put 100% effort into his M right now, because his in so much pain - it just wouldn't be possible no matter how much he tried.

 

It will take time and as time will slowly heal, he will be able to put more energy into his M and take more action, but he can only do what he can do - in matters of emotion we cannot FORCE ourselves.

 

One day at a time, he's doing what he can do at the moment, at his own pace, but good intentions are there for sure.

 

Who told you his heart isn't breaking over this???

 

Again Ellin, thanks for really understanding, and having my back.

[BHMM]

Well, you're gaslighting the hell out of her, which is far worse than the affair itself. And you apparently plan to continue. You really ought to consider how awful it is to try to make your W doubt herself when she can sense you were cheating. That is SO wrong on so many levels.

I'm painfully aware of how ****ty what I've done and what I'm doing is. But I've made my decision and I'm moving on from there.

[stillafool]

Because they are two different entities. They are not equals. The dynamics of the relationship is very different. I love my child more than anything and anyone in this world. Staying in my marriage was not a sacrifice, it was the thing to do. My exH loves our child, too, but he was a serial cheater and it had nothing to do with his kid. We both decided because we loved our child that we were going to be cordial and civil and we were.

 

Somebody mentioned something about what a burden it is to the child if he finds out the parent stayed in the marriage because of him. That's hogwash! I told my child I stayed, because making sure that she had an intact family growing up was important to me and doing what's important to me, made me happy.

 

I don't know your story. The difference with you and OP is you knew what your H was doing and the two of you made the choice to "stay because of the kid" based on complete honesty. If OP were to be honest with his W and give her the choice of whether to stay or go. OP is only concerned with what is good for him in all situations.

[Confused4Now]

I'm painfully aware of how ****ty what I've done and what I'm doing is. But I've made my decision and I'm moving on from there.

I think there is no more reason to beat this to death...BHMM will do what he feels is best for him. I can say this thread has been very entertaining at least with everyone's opinions...I pray that things work out for you and hope you continue down the right path.....Good luck...keep posting.

[stillafool]

Well, you're gaslighting the hell out of her, which is far worse than the affair itself. And you apparently plan to continue. You really ought to consider how awful it is to try to make your W doubt herself when she can sense you were cheating. That is SO wrong on so many levels.

 

It is easy - terribly easy - to shake a man's faith in himself. To take advantage of that, to break a man's spirit is devil's work.

- George Bernard Shaw

 

This is an excellent post. The 'gaslighting" is far worse than the affair. The affair maybe something I could forgive; but to completely use me as a fool and waste my years is unforgivable.

[White Flower]

Not yet, but I'm looking into it.

 

I was thinking of IC. Is there really a point to MC when I know I'm not going to admit the A? (Honest question.)

If you honestly think the problem is yours and yours alone, IC would be the way to go.

[TOWinNYC]

Careful TOW. Such love/magic is very rare indeed. It's nice to think that if you had it once you'll find it somewhere else as well. I should know. I had it and didn’t realize just how amazing and rare it was at the time. Literally hundreds of dates and eight relationships all in a vain attempt to find what I already had with someone else and gave up. It’s been 20 years now and I’m convinced that I won’t find it. I’ve accepted it. I had my chance and gave it up like such a naïve woman, which I was at the time. I exhibited similar bravado then as you did in you statement above. I thought the magic could be found again anywhere. For me, it couldn’t. My life is fine but if I could go back to that time I’d never let go of him and the magic. I’d do everything in my power to keep it. I’m not talking about fulfilling and even intense relationships. I’m talking about something so deep and innate that it can’t be put into words. But to those lucky few that have felt it, you know what I’m describing. And it doesn’t fade with time. That’s an important distinction. Many times the start of a relationship can feel like magic, but it’s only temporary. Perhaps you’ll be more fortunate than me but to those lucky few that have found this true deep innate magic then my advice would be to hold on tight and keep it alive. No matter what.

 

It IS amazing and rare, isn’t it?

 

I know exactly what you’re talking about. That ultimate connection on all different levels (mind, body, spirit, etc) that somehow makes the world “right”. People on LS are probably tired of hearing me say this but I can’t help myself - once magic has touched you, it changes you forever.

 

And I agree, magic never dies.

 

I never claimed that it “could be found anywhere”. All I said was that it EXISTS. I didn’t say it with “bravado” like you claim. I said it because the possibility translates into hope.

 

I don’t know your story at all – the who/what/where/when & whys of the reason you let him go. But just because you haven’t been able to find it again….all that means is you haven’t found again YET. So unless you’re posting from your death bed, don’t lose faith.

 

So as not to go off topic – I want BHMM to know that that’s what he should strive for with his W. And if he can’t, then there’s nothing wrong with “good” or “good enough” because the majority of M’s I’ve seen are just fine/mediocre/okay – and people will settle for ordinary instead of extraordinary and make it work.

[White Flower]

I'm not so sure you kept parts of yourself hidden in the M to 'just maybe maintain some sense of an individual identity'. I think you found you couldn't trust your wife completely enough to be yourself without being judged by her. She doesn't make it safe for you BH.

 

 

No, I know that part of me. I like keeping a chunk of myself for myself. That's how I am, and that's primarily why I did it.

Then I think THIS is the crux of your problem; why keep a chucnk of yourself for you and away from your wife but you easily shared all of you with OW? Why be willing to let go with someone other than your wife?

 

This is what needs to be addressed in IC.

[jennie-jennie]

Not yet, but I'm looking into it.

 

I was thinking of IC. Is there really a point to MC when I know I'm not going to admit the A? (Honest question.)

 

Just a thought. Since you said you recognized yourself in the description of the split self affair. MC is not recommended in these cases. IC for both the WS and the BS is. Because generally both spouses lack contact with their emotional self, and for the marriage to be successful they need to reconnect with this part of themselves. The MM has during the affair accomplished this through his affair partner, he now needs to learn how to do it on his own.

[Brokenlady]

Then I think THIS is the crux of your problem; why keep a chucnk of yourself for you and away from your wife but you easily shared all of you with OW? Why be willing to let go with someone other than your wife?

 

This is what needs to be addressed in IC.

 

Classic intimacy issues, perhaps exacerbated if his W happens to be a rather boundaryless/enmeshing kind of woman. Sometimes these intimacy issues arise out of resentment, but more often I think it's an unresolved issue within BHMM himself.

 

Whether or not BHMM considers the problem solely in the M or solely within him (unlikely true in either case), IC never hurt anyone, and would give him a safe space to share things he isn't ready to share with his W yet.

[Brokenlady]

Just a thought. Since you said you recognized yourself in the description of the split self affair. MC is not recommended in these cases. IC for both the WS and the BS is. Because generally both spouses lack contact with their emotional self, and for the marriage to be successful they need to reconnect with this part of themselves. The MM has during the affair accomplished this through his affair partner, he now needs to learn how to do it on his own.

 

The prognosis for split-selves repairing a M is really really poor. And it's an extended process, minimum 1 year of intensive IC. Having seen this go down more than a few times, my guess is he loses them both.

[2sure]

Originally Posted by BHMM

No, I know that part of me. I like keeping a chunk of myself for myself. That's how I am, and that's primarily why I did it.

 

 

For what its worth - I understand this thinking. I used to be like that myself - before I married I was an OW several times over. I saw my relationships with MM as a little chunk of my life that was just for me, didnt affect the day to day reality of my life, and as long as discretion was used...harmless. Almost a recreational hobby I could put away like a pair of ice skates when I was done. I never even felt the desire to tell anyone about these relationships.

 

Because I understood this thinking...I was initially more patient and understanding of my H when I discovered his cheating. I didnt take it soo personally, I knew he loved me, I felt confident we could successfully reconcile. When he told me he didnt do it for any real reason or need...I got that. Even though I understood because of my own experience...I had changed, thats why I married him. I was ready to share 100%..just not practiced at it.

 

Thing is...he never really gave up that 100%. He continued to keep " a chunk" just for himself. I really think that his being comfortable with that is what ultimately led him to betray me again. I really think that had he been willing to share it with me...he would have been happy and would have figured it out. I think this because I WAS someone who liked to keep a chunk just for me...but I changed and its a freeing thing.

 

It not right. Its F'd Up. Get some help with that.

[breaking_bad]

I'm going back and forth on this thread and I understand the divergent points of view on it.

 

For me, the one thing that hangs me up is the original angle of it. It is not a penitent/repentant post. I do understand that the purpose in part was to make sure that the OW knew of his legit feelings to provide some sort of reassurance, but it is basically more geared towards his pain and loss. Now maybe some people want to hear that the WS is hurting, because it validates the depth of their relationship, but generally, someone who is truly penitent over something they've done doesn't bring their own hurt into it, or even the reasons for why it happened, because being sorry is not really about how you're feeling and why.

 

So I guess I am not surprised by the backlash on this one.

 

I also like others seriously don't understand how repentance doesn't extend to the BS. Maybe it has and that was just not the purpose of the post, but it just doesn't sound like it to me. It just feels like the BS is being assigned to the next 20 years of "friendship" with her H whether she likes it or not. But who knows, maybe that's ok with her too.

 

Anyway, as a fOW, the post doesn't do much of anything for me and feels generally hollow. I often wonder how some people don't get sick of hearing themselves say "I'm sorry" over and over again.

 

Maybe this is the first step to reparations, by making sure the OW knows the A meant something and that losing this special other person has been painful for you, but that's kind of where this seems to begin and end. Yeah, you loved her, yeah losing her hurts you, yeah, you're sorry that you hurt her too, and you had a good reason for doing it, and yeah, you're going to try to build back up your marriage in ways up to but not including the areas of honesty and trust.

 

Maybe I'm just in a place now where I have no interest in hearing about how hurt the WS is over the A, when he was the one who in the back of his mind generally knew how it would all end, took what he wanted, led everyone on, and now he is suffering the consequences of his own actions and just doesn't like how it feels. I am not saying that there were not willing participants, I just don't buy this "I thought I could do it and now it turns out I can't" crap. You will just never convince me that WS were not fully aware of that major roadblock the entire time. Never. Sorry.

 

I know that part of this is my problem - I am not ready to forgive and forget and I'm not interested in anything that smacks of more ego-centric selfishness. I'll work on forgiveness - that's my next stage.

[Mimolicious]

I thought there was plenty of posts on this thread presenting the W's perspective and stressing how painful it must be for her or how unfair it is on her, without any mention of the OW's pain. I think that in fact the majority of posters expressed feeling sorry for W and minority for OW.

 

So why does it bother you so much that some point out the OW's side of things? Would you only be satisfied if she wasn't mentioned at all?

 

Talk about mind control (which you once threw at me if I recall correctly).

 

About your "mind control" maybe... If you have time to keep tabs on posts.

 

about everything else. Why are feeling entitlements attached to titles again?

 

I'll leave you with this. His OW can be feeling like the house collapsed, with all understanding. Why? He as one little fact in advantage (some may say disadvantage, I think she is in a better place than his W is). She has knowledge. Knowledge of what she is involved in and what she is going through. She is sort of like the live version of this show.

 

His W- when she gets it, she's getting the edited version. Cameras are rolling but she wont know the final product till it's edited out. In other words, she is living it without knowledge. It's happening. Oh and it's happening very very close to home, yet she has no idea. So how "painful" is it for her?

 

"Bothers me"? Try again...

"Satisfied"- lmao!

 

Anyway. This Novella most likely wont have a sweet ending. Nothing built on sand holds up through a storm. TTYL!

[whichwayisup]

So as not to go off topic – I want BHMM to know that that’s what he should strive for with his W. And if he can’t, then there’s nothing wrong with “good” or “good enough” because the majority of M’s I’ve seen are just fine/mediocre/okay – and people will settle for ordinary instead of extraordinary and make it work.

 

In affairyland, everything is good and happy. It's a hidden relationship, not being tested by real life. The good the bad and the ugly. There's no illnesses, finances, kids puke to clean up, dealing with the inlaws, house issues, putting up (and accepting) your partner's bad habits etc..

 

A marriage isn't JUST about love, magic and great passionate sex! As time goes on and people get older, it's better (though I bet most would disagree with me) to have someone you're compatible with, someone who accepts you for who you are, no matter what AND will always support and be there for you during the bad times, illness times and so forth. Long lasting love may not be hot/passionate and intense like an affair is, but it still is love. Love and care, respect and growth. It's more than just lust and what goes on in the bedroom. I wish people would see that family life, thinking of others, sacrficing, and being UNselfish is more important than just ONE persons selfishness. Affairs are selfish..Bottomline.

 

I thought there was plenty of posts on this thread presenting the W's perspective and stressing how painful it must be for her or how unfair it is on her, without any mention of the OW's pain. I think that in fact the majority of posters expressed feeling sorry for W and minority for OW.

 

So why does it bother you so much that some point out the OW's side of things? Would you only be satisfied if she wasn't mentioned at all?

 

The OW knew going in he was married, and has kids. She didn't go into this blindly. She's a grown woman who made a choice. Sure, he feels bad for hurting her, but he doesn't need to dwell on it or feel bad/guilty 24/7 that he hurt the OW. AFFAIRS, like relationships and marriages DO end. BHMM has every right to end the A, even if she isn't happy about it. He has no obligation to her as she isn't his wife.

[breaking_bad]

In affairyland, everything is good and happy. It's a hidden relationship, not being tested by real life. The good the bad and the ugly. There's no illnesses, finances, kids puke to clean up, dealing with the inlaws, house issues, putting up (and accepting) your partner's bad habits etc..

 

A marriage isn't JUST about love, magic and great passionate sex! As time goes on and people get older, it's better (though I bet most would disagree with me) to have someone you're compatible with, someone who accepts you for who you are, no matter what AND will always support and be there for you during the bad times, illness times and so forth. Long lasting love may not be hot/passionate and intense like an affair is, but it still is love. Love and care, respect and growth. It's more than just lust and what goes on in the bedroom. I wish people would see that family life, thinking of others, sacrficing, and being UNselfish is more important than just ONE persons selfishness. Affairs are selfish..Bottomline.

 

 

 

The OW knew going in he was married, and has kids. She didn't go into this blindly. She's a grown woman who made a choice. Sure, he feels bad for hurting her, but he doesn't need to dwell on it or feel bad/guilty 24/7 that he hurt the OW. AFFAIRS, like relationships and marriages DO end. BHMM has every right to end the A, even if she isn't happy about it. He has no obligation to her as she isn't his wife.

 

I agree w/ this. BHMM has the right to end the A, for any reason he wants, or no reason at all. No one has to be happy about anything, and from the original post, didn't sound like he felt bad for anyone but himself so we can all breathe a big sigh of relief on that one....

 

And I would argue that on the highest level, no one has any actual obligation to anyone. Even after you sign a piece of paper or clean up their puke...

[OWoman]

BHMM, you do realise that you won't ever have with your W what you had with your OW, don't you - because you are denying both of you that possibility? You said that with your OW you were able to share the hidden / private part of you, because you felt like it, but with your BW you weren't because you chose to keep some part of you aside, out of the M. You are still choosing to do that now - by keeping the secret of the A (which is a pretty big secret, IMO).

 

I'm not saying you're wrong or right to do this - that is entirely your choice, and I get the reasons for you not wanting to disclose your A... but you cannot then in all fairness feel upset that you can't have what you had with your OW, with your W - because you are denying that possibility by withholding that part of yourself from the M. It's a choice - and yours to make freely - but it does have that consequence. It does deny you (and your W) the possibility of sharing the kind of WOW intimacy you had with your OW.

 

I'm glad you're at peace with your decision, and are willing to put effort into your M. I hope you can recover enough not to feel gutted at the loss of your R with your OW for too long...