A MM's perspective

[eleanorrigby]

^^ Or call your wife and tell her you need to talk.

 

If you aren't willing to talk about the elephant in the room, maybe you would be willing to talk about the pre-affair issues, your intimacy issues, and about you not being in love with her anymore.

 

Ordering her flowers and saying "I love you" when it's a lie will get you nowhere.

 

Agreed. Those kind of gestures right now will just look suspicious and fake and I don't think she will respond to them. He needs to talk to her.

[Ellin]

no one said he had to tell ALL the details to his W. just mentioned the honesty about allowing her to understand that he felt connected to someone outside the M, and is now wanting to reconnect with his W. what questions she may have at that point would determine what he may need to reveal after that.

 

the fact remains - his W noticed he was distant. she has asked. it might help in the repairing process if his W understands that he hasn't been interested in connecting with her for 3 years - and allows her to see if she wants to put more energy and effort into the possibility that the M could get to a level of being great... or not.

 

how can she be expected to work on this with the OP if she has no idea that she should be working towards a common goal?

Sounds good but not very do-able in the way you described it. "Felt connected to someone else" is not too bad, especially since now he wants to reconnect with W, but this is a huge euphemism and the reality of the A - and the details cannot be smoothed over - is a completely different story and would cause massive hurt to his W.

 

Perhapd one day he'll be ready to do this, but not just yet.

[White Flower]

But expecting someone to stay with you when you don't love them is far worse.

Yes, a point we usually try to convey to the BS around here.

 

I for one would not force any man to stay with me if he didn't love me.

[xxoo]

Yes, a point we usually try to convey to the BS around here.

 

I for one would not force any man to stay with me if he didn't love me.

 

I thought Anne's quote was referring to the WS expecting the BS to stay in the marriage, even though the WS doesn't love the BS.

[NoIDidn't]

I thought Anne's quote was referring to the WS expecting the BS to stay in the marriage, even though the WS doesn't love the BS.

 

Exactly.

 

There is a serious filter in this forum.

 

Its okay for the MM to decide to stay with the W that he doesn't love and FORCE the W to stay by not being truthful about it, but its not okay for the W to want her M to work and see if her H can love her again knowing the "truth".

 

Okay. Got it. Everything in favor of the MM. The MM can force the W to stay with lies. But the W can't ask the MM to stay and work to see if the M can be recovered because that doesn't benefit the MM immediately.

[eleanorrigby]

Exactly.

 

There is a serious filter in this forum.

 

Its okay for the MM to decide to stay with the W that he doesn't love and FORCE the W to stay by not being truthful about it, but its not okay for the W to want her M to work and see if her H can love her again knowing the "truth".

 

Okay. Got it. Everything in favor of the MM. The MM can force the W to stay with lies. But the W can't ask the MM to stay and work to see if the M can be recovered because that doesn't benefit the MM immediately.

 

I think I see how that works as well now. *sigh*

[waterlove]

I have never been in a relationship with a married person before and just started one almost 3 months ago with a MM. We are totally in love, but he has children and like you, doesn't want to hurt the kids. when i started this relationship i thought it would be a purely sexual one. I just got divorced and was looking to be with someone that I felt safe with but that I wouldn't fall in love with. Well that plan backfired big time. He initially said that this would be a safe space for me until I met someone that I wanted to be with and this way I wouldn't feel lonely or rush out and hook up with multiple partners or innappropriate people because I was lonely. I have known him for a while and I trusted him already and knew he was a good person...I thought it would just be fun and then I would move on. Well the sex was and still is so good that we just couldn't stop. not only that...we are so in tune with each other and compliment each other so much that we fell completely in love. However, he's still with his wife and I dont feel that I have the right to ask that he leave her for me. He says that i have his heart, and he doesn't have a sexual relationship with her. At first I didn't care that he had another in his life. But as we are becoming closer and closer,,,I feel this ache inside of me when I want to call or text him and I can't because he is with her. I'm becoming jealous, but I don't have the right to be. I love him so much that I will put up with this crazy relationship to be with him whenever I can. He treats me better than anyone I have ever been with and is definitely the best sexual partner I have ever had. I dont want to give it up to be with someone who is more available. I am faithful to this man, we tell each other we love each other, and he calls me his girlfriend. He tells me all the time how wonderful it is to be with me and how ive changed his life for the better. He really is wonderful to be with...but I dont know how to stop myself from wanting more. I can't tell him how I feel because I don't want to drive him away for fear I will ruin his marriage and relationship with the children. I actually don't want to destablize his life in any way...I love him too much and I dont think of myself as a very selfish person. I want him to be happy...it's just so hard to not want to keep him for the rest of my life. I don't have any children and am just young enough that I can still have them. just dont know if Im making the right decision to be with him. But I can't just walk away either...we almost broke up once and I felt physically ill...I felt worse than when I was going through a divorce. He tells me that he hates the thought of me with another...but that he knows that I will want to move on eventually. Its so hard because I really don't want anyone else, but I want a family too. He is the central figure in my life, but he has a whole other life to turn to if things don't work out, which they won't eventually, if he doesn't leave his wife. My dilemma is that is it worse to turn away from love because you are scared of the future? Or worse to throw yourself into something you know will end in heartbreak because it's better to love and lose than to never know this kind of connection with another. You only live once. Everything ends eventually. I plan on continuing this relationship until I can't take it anymore or he ends it. I feel guilty sometimes because I am risking the integrity of his marriage, but I just can't get enough of him...is this crazy to feel like this? I've never been in this kind of relationship...just looking for others like me. I can't really tell anyone about my relationship because of censure, but in my mind what we have is so special that it's not wrong..though I would have said different before.

 

 

 

 

I just registered on LS yesterday but I’ve been lurking on and off for a few years. I see so many posts on here from OW wondering about what their MM is thinking, doing, feeling, why he said this and then did that, etc. Well, I’m a MM who ended my A of 3+ years about 3 months ago, because I just couldn’t bring myself to leave my kids. It’s been 11 weeks of NC since then, and I’m heartbroken. I’m doing worse now than I was a month ago. Every day seems harder and harder to go on. Someone compared the getting over the end of an A to mourning a death, and right now that seems about right.

 

I won’t go into the details of how the A started, but suffice it to say we had an amazing connection on every level, like nothing either of us had ever experienced before, and it was addictive and all-consuming, and it was real love. I tried to leave my M several times, and could never bring myself to fully do it. I wanted to pursue a life with OW and give us a real chance, but I didn’t for several reasons. The biggest of which was that I couldn’t get past the guilt I know I’d feel causing my kids the pain that a separation/D. There were money issues too, and I wondered how all of this would affect the R with OW once we were in the “real world”. I told her this multiple times, that I was concerned that I’d bring so much stress and guilt into our R that it would affect us. There were also cultural/ethnic differences that we both worried about (how would each others’ families accept us, etc.). And though this was my first and only A during my 10+ year M, it wasn’t the first time I had been unfaithful in a relationship (and from early on, I told OW everything about my past), so I think some small part of me feared that I would eventually cheat again (according to LS knowledge, this is what we MMs do).

 

I never lied to OW about my feelings about her, our R, or my M,. Sometimes when we’d talk about our future it would feel like anything’s possible, and we could get through whatever would come, together. Being with her and sharing visions of a future together seemed to fuel a confidence that we’d get through whatever would come. I honestly felt those feelings, deeply and sincerely. But then reality would hit, and I’d be putting my kids to bed at night and thinking about trying to explain to them why Daddy is leaving, picturing them growing up without me around full-time, maybe eventually being raised by another man, and suffering through difficult childhoods because of the emotional turmoil and financial strain caused by me… and the idea of all this tore me up continually. I finally had to end things because I knew I couldn’t go through with a D and was wasting OW’s time. It was brutally hard to end things with her, and after 11 weeks I still spend time every day completely torn up. We gave each other our hearts, and it was amazing, and yet sometimes I wonder if we would’ve been better off having never met. I honestly wish her the best and hope she finds someone to share a life with, but it kills me to think of her moving on, even though I know that’s how it has to be. I'm now trying to repair what's left of my M, and provide a happy stable life for my kids.

 

I hope this helps give some perspective on things from an MM’s point of view. Feel free to ask me whatever questions you want and I’ll try to answer as honestly as I can.

[waterlove]

I wonder if it is worse for a person to stay in a relationship for the kids than to leave to be happy...I really don't know. I wish my MM would leave his W for me, but would it ruin our relationship if his relationship with his kids deteriorated? It's too bad that our society puts such a emphasis on the nuclear family. Perhaps the polygamists have it right, at least their way the marriages stay intact. I wish I could be a part of the life of my MM, but society says I can't without him having to destroy his current marriage, or keeping me a secret, which is our current arrangement. I love him enough to stay, for now, but it tears me up inside to know that he's with her and he doesn't love her like he loves me, but stays in the M because he thinks he has to.

 

 

 

This forum needs a thank you or rep button. I love this post.

[anne1707]

I thought Anne's quote was referring to the WS expecting the BS to stay in the marriage, even though the WS doesn't love the BS.

 

It certainly was meant this way - I cannot stand how this is being turned into the wife being at fault because she wants her husband to be faithful and loving to her and their marriage.

[jj33]

Yes, a point we usually try to convey to the BS around here.

 

I for one would not force any man to stay with me if he didn't love me.

 

 

But how is she supposed to know if he is gaslighting her?

 

She may suspect something is wrong but if he lies as BHMM has said he does she has no idea. She may believe its job stress or depression whatever he is saying it is.

 

WF you know I love you but its awfully unfair to say Ws should let the person go if the Hs are not manning up and telling them how they feel.

 

If someone says I dont love you anymore then if the BS says can we fix this we had something good or please stay for the sake of the children, thats another thing entirely.

 

The OW and the BS are in the same position. They love the WS and stick with the relationship because they believe what the MM is telling them.

 

This thread has been very very enlightening for me. It makes the WS's position much less sympathetic to me. It takes all the rationalizations that I ever made and blows them wide open. Im surprised more OWs arent seeing it that way as well.

Edited September 4, 2010 by jj33

[jennie-jennie]

I wonder if it is worse for a person to stay in a relationship for the kids than to leave to be happy...I really don't know. I wish my MM would leave his W for me, but would it ruin our relationship if his relationship with his kids deteriorated? It's too bad that our society puts such a emphasis on the nuclear family. Perhaps the polygamists have it right, at least their way the marriages stay intact. I wish I could be a part of the life of my MM, but society says I can't without him having to destroy his current marriage, or keeping me a secret, which is our current arrangement. I love him enough to stay, for now, but it tears me up inside to know that he's with her and he doesn't love her like he loves me, but stays in the M because he thinks he has to.

 

Yes, there's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

There is something with the institution of marriage which lends to the construction of affairs. Something is definitely wrong here. Perhaps the WS, BS and OP are only the pawns of society, the sacrifices society makes for the benefits it obtains from the institution of marriage.

 

Marriage is the opium of the people. Keep them sedated.

[bohogirl]

Imagine the depth of insecurity and emptiness within BHMM that led him to play with the emotions and tell lies to the women he claims to care about.

 

This isn't a sign of a big ego. It is old fashioned weakness.

 

My theory is that, some MM pursue affairs because they are too scared to face up to life pressures ( e.g. aging, parenthood, career disappointment, losing attraction for wife etc.) so instead find solace in a another person by adopting a persona that does not exist in reality. They can pretend to be anyone they like and it is fun at first.

 

When they realise that they cannot keep up the pretense (not some belated desire to care for his kids) they "let" the OW go. IMO there is no sacrifice just the MM saving face. MM exits the affair before he is dumped for being a pathetic lying waste of time. It defeats the object of having a affair if you feel worse afterwards.

 

The longer they stay in the affair the more risk that the OW will try to destroy him when the truth comes out. BHMM moved on at the right time. He does not have a bunny boiler on his hands. That would quickly put an end to the "grieving".

[Summer Breeze]

I've been working my way through this thread and have found it very interesting. I've been a BS and an OW. Neither is fun. I've never tried to recover a relationship from an A so that's something I have no expertise on.

 

I will say this in defense of BHMM. He ended the A. He recognized that he wasn't going to end the M and that he needed to react accordingly. He did. He is working at making things better. I agree he should tell his wife but I also think that he's doing what he's prepared for and capable of at the minute. He's said a few times that he isn't ruling it out, he just can't do it now.

 

I do still think that's selfish but I've also been in love and had the task of pulling myself together when the relationship ended. You can't snap your fingers and have it all better.

 

My thoughts. He's screuued up for the last 3 years and if it takes him 3 months or 6 months to get the gumption up to tell his W then so be it. Maybe he needs to build enough so that he can tell her. Maybe he's taking small bites so he can finish the meal without choking. Maybe he knows his limitations and he's doing the best he can right at this minute. Maybe he realizes that his best might be more in a few months. He knows as well as we do that if she stumbles across something or she approaches him about it again and he hesitates then he may well lose her.

 

For the moment he's done something and I pat him on the back for that. BHMM, I hope you do more because it is only fair to your W but at least you're doing something.

[White Flower]

There are all kinds of selfish. And expecting someone to return your love just because you love them is indeed selfish, whether you are M to them or not.

 

But expecting someone to stay with you when you don't love them is far worse.

 

Yes, a point we usually try to convey to the BS around here.

 

I for one would not force any man to stay with me if he didn't love me.

And I meant H, BF, or MM. Any man period.

I thought Anne's quote was referring to the WS expecting the BS to stay in the marriage, even though the WS doesn't love the BS.

No, Anne's statement was in response to a statement that I had made on love being selfish.

 

But if she meant that I don't disagree with it. I think BHMM's W has a right to know that he is at least trying to recover from his A and trying to get that spark back. Knowing this, she may DO things to help that along or even decide to ask him to leave. If she knows how much he is struggling to 'get it back', doing something on her end may help him overcome the loss of the A that much quicker.

 

Exactly.

 

There is a serious filter in this forum.

 

Its okay for the MM to decide to stay with the W that he doesn't love and FORCE the W to stay by not being truthful about it, but its not okay for the W to want her M to work and see if her H can love her again knowing the "truth".

 

Okay. Got it. Everything in favor of the MM. The MM can force the W to stay with lies. But the W can't ask the MM to stay and work to see if the M can be recovered because that doesn't benefit the MM immediately.

Please explain filter because I don't get your first statement at all. Most of us are trying to get him to tell her the truth. And if she wants him even after knowing that he doesn't love her (yet) then it is her prerogotive to keep him until he does IF he ever does. It's not impossible as I have fallen in love my my exH many times.

 

Are you saying that BHMM has the filter?

 

It certainly was meant this way - I cannot stand how this is being turned into the wife being at fault because she wants her husband to be faithful and loving to her and their marriage.

Please see above. The statement I made about OP's usually trying to make the point to the BS around here was actually a compliment that you just didn't see. It is assumed that OPs all think that BS are holding on to a dead M so should just give up, but your statement shows that just isn't the case. I was glad that you made that point and have been happy to see so many BW on this thread defending BHMM's W's right to know about his A so that she can make an informed decision whether that means kicking him to the curb or staying and hoping to rekindle that love in their M.

 

But how is she supposed to know if he is gaslighting her?

 

She may suspect something is wrong but if he lies as BHMM has said he does she has no idea. She may believe its job stress or depression whatever he is saying it is.

 

WF you know I love you but its awfully unfair to say Ws should let the person go if the Hs are not manning up and telling them how they feel.

 

If someone says I dont love you anymore then if the BS says can we fix this we had something good or please stay for the sake of the children, thats another thing entirely.

 

The OW and the BS are in the same position. They love the WS and stick with the relationship because they believe what the MM is telling them.

 

This thread has been very very enlightening for me. It makes the WS's position much less sympathetic to me. It takes all the rationalizations that I ever made and blows them wide open. Im surprised more OWs arent seeing it that way as well.

LOL, again, please read above. I heart you to JJ.

Edited September 4, 2010 by White Flower

[anne1707]

WF

 

Sometimes you drive me mad, but then you come back and show that you can see all 3 sides and I forget my madness

[White Flower]

WF

 

Sometimes you drive me mad, but then you come back and show that you can see all 3 sides and I forget my madness

Well Annie, that's what we get when we make short posts...sometimes they get misinterpreted.

 

Hugs.

[Ellin]

1. Man dumps woman of his dream to sacrifice himself for the greater good - his wife and family. Great, well done.

 

2. Man lies to OW for 3 years about their future. Game gets old as he is never going to follow through. Dumps OW. Escapes back to family unit who he controls by hiding his true nature. POS lying coward.

 

The person who does the interpretation:

1. Is understanding, not judegemental, and sees the good in people.

2. The opposite of it.

[Ellin]

I'm wondering where BHMM went???? Many pages & he's silent.

 

Bottom line is ~ it's wrong what he did! Period. (I believe he knows this)

But it does not mean that he has to spill the beans NOW. He's made his decision to work on the marriage & not tell his wife.

 

What I'm curious about is - BHMM have you been able to keep NC?

Well, are you surprised?

 

He came here to share his perspective and shed some light on the issue from his POV (what many posters have been saying was missing on this forum) and didn't ask for any advice; on the contrary, he agreed to answer any questions anyone had honestly and what happened?

 

He was cornered, shouted at, judged, condemned, told what he absolutely MUST do for pages and pages and the trend didn't show any signs of slowing down as long as he tried to answer every post - and as truthfully and politely as he could.

 

I don't know why so many people think that it is ok to upset someone just because that person is sharing stories from their private, intimate life. I don't think it would happen if it wasn't anonymous.

[2sunny]

he may not be gone at all - it IS a holiday weekend - and he IS trying to reconnect with his family = maybe they went away for the holiday weekend...

 

he said he's been reading here for a few years... my bet is he'll return.

[Silly_Girl]

Well, are you surprised?

 

He came here to share his perspective and shed some light on the issue from his POV (what many posters have been saying was missing on this forum) and didn't ask for any advice; on the contrary, he agreed to answer any questions anyone had honestly and what happened?

 

He was cornered, shouted at, judged, condemned, told what he absolutely MUST do for pages and pages and the trend didn't show any signs of slowing down as long as he tried to answer every post - and as truthfully and politely as he could.

 

I don't know why so many people think that it is ok to upset someone just because that person is sharing stories from their private, intimate life. I don't think it would happen if it wasn't anonymous.

 

See bolded.

 

OR.... he was offered advice, posters shared their experiences, LS-ers pointed out their concerns and tried to forewarn him of potentially dangerous problems that may arise.

[Ellin]

he may not be gone at all - it IS a holiday weekend - and he IS trying to reconnect with his family = maybe they went away for the holiday weekend...

 

he said he's been reading here for a few years... my bet is he'll return.

 

Hopefully..

[Ellin]

See bolded.

 

OR.... he was offered advice, posters shared their experiences, LS-ers pointed out their concerns and tried to forewarn him of potentially dangerous problems that may arise.

 

Yes, some did.

[dolphinscry]

BHMM this is my first post. I am a brokenhearted OW and would like to know if you are still answering questions on this thread? My A ended in June also, not my choice. Your A has so many similarities to mine, especially in the way you felt for each other. I won't go into my questions until I see if you are even replying to this thread anymore.

[bentnotbroken]

Hopefully..

 

 

....his wife found out and has seen a lawyer and a doctor.

[GreenEyedLady]

I don't think I'm boo-hooing? I just posted my perspective, my thoughts and feelings (yep, I'm sad). I'm not soliciting advice, I'm not justifying my behavior, and I'm not trying to blame anyone else for my situation. And I am trying to make the change, which why I ended the A and am attempting to fix my M.

 

The so-so comment seems a little much. But maybe you're right, maybe the OW is better off without me. I hope she's doing better than I am.

 

I apologize for the late response. My computer crashed and with the beginning of the school year, WAAAAYY behind.

 

Now, I'm sure you see your situation with COMPLETELY different eyes. And you don't know me, so you don't have any idea where I am coming from.

 

I was once an OW. My MM manned up and put an end to the lies, etc. And we are married now. But much of it I attribute to my refusing to bow to his wishes.

 

You are justifying your behavior. I will bet that no one has ever made you look at what you are doing and make a judgment call.

 

You ended the A because you probably figured out you were going to be dumped unless you made a change. MM like to call the shots and when they feel out of control, they try to one-up their partner. That's why they cheat in the first place.

 

Also, you're trying to "fix" your M because it will cost you ALOT if you don't.

 

There's nothing so-so about saying I love you and I will risk everything to make it work. It's mediocre to say I'll try because I owe it to X,Y, Z and no one else has any idea the stakes.

 

No OW or W for that matter wants a man who is just with her because it's easy.

 

We want our man to move mountains for us.

 

And when a man loves a woman, EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

 

I feel bad for your OW and your W.

 

The only person you love is yourself.

 

GEL