A MM's perspective

[BHMM]

BH dont give up on us. Youve been through the mills but we want you here on the OW/OM board and dont let anyone chase you away. Some have suggested that MM dont post because affairs are generally a case of (and these are not my words) "hit it and quit it". This thread demonstrates that is not true. You get bludgeoned.

 

By the way there is an ignore button that you can use if you decide that you choose not to read posts from particular posters. When your emotions are raw sometimes the freedom afforded by the forum is more than you bargained for and the ignore button can be helpful.

I'm still here, I think I was just tired and edgy last night so I was getting easily annoyed by the "You're not real" crowd.

 

Thank you for the support!

[Owl]

BHMM, I want to say up front that my "focus" is normally on helping posters reconcile marriages after infidelity.

 

I've been here a few years...seen quite a few posters come and go. Successfully reconciled my own marriage after my wife's EA.

 

I mention this so you understand where I'm coming from, and the "why" of my questions and advice.

 

Given that...I know you've said that you're "reinvesting the energy and time you spent on the A into your marriage".

 

OK...that 'sounds' great, but it's chalk full of unclarity.

 

What SPECIFIC ACTIONS are you taking?

 

How are you identifying the changes that need to happen to make your marriage better?

 

How are you communicating these things to your wife, without her awareness of the A?

 

What I'm looking for are the concrete changes you're taking...not intangible goals, but actual describable actions that you're doing now to rebuild your marriage?

[BHMM]

I've got to ask what you think gives you the right to make these decisions for your wife and kids?

I'm not sure if anything "gives me the right" to make the decision for my wife, but that's the way it is. As far as what gives me the right to make a decision that's in my kids' best interest? I'm not sure if that's a real question, but I'm their father, and like any parent, I'm doing the best I can within my own set of faults.

Where does your wife count in all this?

Where does my she count? I walked away from the A and the OW I'm in love with to try and rebuild my M and spend the rest of my life devoted to my W.

 

Marriages break up every day and kids can be fine.

You sound like OW. I couldn't take that risk.

 

Seems this is all about YOU and nobody else. Please don't use the kids as an excuse to stay, man up and either go be with the OW or tell your wife so you can work on the marriage together.

I manned up when I walked away from the A, and rededicated myself to my family and my home. Yes the A was wrong and I know it, and I'll suffer for it for a long time. I don't see the point in dragging my W down with me.

[jwi71]

What happened to Chris' (silverplanets) beautiful postings from this morning?

Were they deleted by Tony?

 

He completely summed up my thoughts on this whole thread.

 

Did anyone else see them?

 

I swear, I should have quoted him this morning instead of running out the door...

[BHMM]

BHMM,

 

Your authenticity comes across in your posts as far as I can see. I can read your pain and confusion. The fact that you write eloquently does not hide your pain and loss.

 

Keep posting. Keep working through your pain. Losing a relationship is like a little death. You have to go through the stages of grief. You will get there in time, and hopefully in time, you will be at peace with your choices.

Thanks FA, I really appreciate the support. Hopefully things will get easier with time.

[BHMM]

For some people having a good R with a romantic partner is not as important as having a good R with their children (and that involves living with them full time).

 

For others not having a good R with a romantic partner is hard, but they put their R with their children above their own personal happiness, and doing otherwise would make them see themselves as selfish and not facing their responsibilities, and that would make them feel guilty, which in turn would impact on their happiness, were they to pursue a romantic R with their chosen person at the cost of losing their time with their children.

You summed up my thoughts and feelings perfectly Ellin. Really well put.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm just not sure about this issue and doesn't seem so clear-cut to me. Not in every case of infidelity, but in some I believe it is better for everyone involved, and kinder, to keep it secret. An example would be of a ONS, after which the WS is full of regret and remorse and never wants to do it again. When something's entirely in the past and the culprit is working hard on making amends it might be better to carry on than hurting many people with the truth of what's done and gone and disrupting their lives.

 

Ellin, I think I get where you're coming from, but this is not an accidental doink on the way home from the nightclub. This is a full-on, "I'm leaving her for you" love affair. Different rules.

 

It is then the "cheater" who has a problem, be it having to split up with someone they love or wrestle with their conscience. They have to live with the emotional consequences and in this way they're being punished, but the innocent party is spared the hurt.

 

His wife is not spared the hurt, in her shoes I'd already be worrying why he's around the house so much more than he was. And I'd possibly be too frightened to even ask him for fear of the answer... that doesn't mean I don't deserve respect and honesty.

 

I've heard of spouses, usually W from what I recall, who stated that they would prefer not to be told about their H's A because as long as he wasn't leaving they were more comfortable in the M than out of it, and if they were told they would have to do something about it.

 

I think my MM's wife is one of those, and we can all make those assertions, but until we're really and truly there, we don't know HOW we want it to be dealt with. This wife is 'there' but doesn't know she's 'there'.

 

In case of OP his W clearly knows that something's going on and no doubt thought about the possibility of him loving someone else have entered her mind, but when they talked about separating she cried and said she didn't want it. Maybe she's one of these people who want to carry on hoping that bad times will pass and everything will be ok again, maybe staying as a family unit is most important to her and volunteering all the hurtful details would not overall lead to better outcome for her and their children.

 

The reason I worry about this, possibly unduly, is that I think one day this will come out. 3 years is an awfully long time. Right now, like so many of us when the status quo is threatened, this wife appears to want to hang in there. But when the immediate threat has passed, she may feel differently. Or something may happen to her, she may lose someone close (I hope not, but bear with me...) that causes her to really re-evaluate her life, her relationships, her marriage and think about how short life is. She may find herself able to face things, and there may have been years of 'lost time' before this happens. Years this couple could have been rebuilding things and forging new relations, openly and honestly.

 

One day perhaps they bump in to the OW. Or the OW may experience something that makes her think she needs to face up to the wife, even if BHMM will not.

 

If the wife knows he MAY have cheated then she may never ever trust him again. Maybe not today, but maybe next month, or next year these signs will start showing through and may eat away at any magic marital band-aid BHMM is trying so hard to weave around his marriage, without his wife's knowledge or co-operation.

 

I worry that once BHMM has finally got through what he needs to get through and comes out the other side ready to be a husband, he may find his wife is not so conducive to being taken for granted/lied to in this way, and she may be in a different place, and this could lead to a difficult cycle for them both.

 

I just think there are SO many variables here, than BHMM cannot control or eliminate, but if he were to talk to his wife he CAN start to take some control. Well, THEY can. Positive actions can begin for both of them.

[LostMe]

Thanks for sticking here BHMM! You’re like a celebrity! Me I’m 5 weeks NC with my xMOM after months of LC where i realised i was hoping the A would be rekindled. He contacted me last week to ask me if we could be friends again yet. I said no. It hurts that he thinks he can be. And it’s not because he wants to leave the door open either...I’ve told him I can’t do it as i’ll always want more from him.

 

What I’ve found hardest to take is that I’m the one who wants to be the ‘cake eater’ (i’m not proud of this, but it’s how i feel) and he wants to do the right thing in spite of his feelings because he won’t risk losing his family. I do respect him for this (and I'm also relieved that the decision to cheat is out of my hands) but these boards are full of stories of MM stringing OW along, being cake eaters etc. It’s hard to believe that he’s different. I feel like I’m the MM sometimes...I’m questioning my own authenticity!! Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, it helps me understand his a little more.

[BHMM]

I think that this is excellent advice...for EVERYONE on the board, to include the person who wrote it.

 

Everyone seems to be looking for the answer that fits their own viewpoint.

 

Why not just let BHMM post, and EVERYONE (BS and OW/OM alike) listen rather than try to mold him to fit what you want to hear?

Thanks Owl.

 

BHMM- I noted that you insisted that your wife shouldn't be told the truth. I don't agree with this, but ok. So what specific ways are you working on rebuilding your marriage? How are you trying to build your marriage up...rebuild the love for your wife...in the face of what's happened, and without her understanding and willing participation?

You and others have asked this a few times, and I feel like I'm taking an exam I didn't study for. I don't have specifics to offer. I'm just trying to refocus my energy and attention on my W and M, and trying to get over OW.

 

If you have specific suggestions I'm all ears.

[BHMM]

Wow.. long thread.. I just read the first few posts from the OP...

 

I completely understand your feeling.. My MMs are just like you.. they would never leave their kids.. (well most anyway)... and I would NEVER ask them to.

 

Did your OW asked you to leave your M? If not, why can't you just go on with the A?

 

You probably wrote what most MMs are feeling about their A..

 

I will eventually read this thread.. good luck and stay strong..

Thanks Lizzie. Yes, she asked me to leave my M, several times.

[Silly_Girl]

What happened to Chris' (silverplanets) beautiful postings from this morning?

Were they deleted by Tony?

 

He completely summed up my thoughts on this whole thread.

 

Did anyone else see them?

 

I swear, I should have quoted him this morning instead of running out the door...

 

Both gone

 

And Hazyhead's post that quoted some of SP's. Shame. I was planning to go back and re-read those in particular.

[Lizzie60]

Oh well.. then I can understand that you want to get over her... I can totally understand your kids coming first.. (and they should, good for you)...

 

But to be totally honest with you.. I can very much doubt that you will 'love' your W again... you can continue living like room mates.. yes.. but like husband/wife again.. I doubt it.. but that's me.. you might prove me wrong though..

[Lizzie60]

Oh.. BHMM.. I doubt you will get the PM privilege so soon.. it's not only the amount of posts.. it's also the length of time you've been here.. (I think)..

[BHMM]

I remembered someone said in a post their mother or grandmother said to their daughter...."if you have to ask the question you already know the answer" I actually do believe that....I think not only does BHMM has to do what's best for him...but what the biggest question...what does he have to do that's the RIGHT thing to do? I know religion has never been mentioned and I don't know if he is a Christian man. But when I made my decisions I wanted to do what was right in God's eyes or what would I do come judgment day. So I ask you BHMM What would God want you to do?

I have no idea what God would want; I can barely figure out how to get through my own day.

 

It's a difficult question. The quick and easy answer is to admit the A to my W because, hey, everyone should always be completely honest with their spouse and tell them everything. People can justify it all they want, saying she deserves to know, and make a fully informed decision about whether to continue our M. And maybe there is some truth to that. But I still subscribe to the notion that bringing that pain to her is just not worth it. Destroy her so I can say, "we're completely honest with each other", and so I have a slightly clearer conscience? The cost-benefit is way out of whack. People keep a lot of secrets in their marriages. Do you all tell your spouse about every crush you develop, about your fantasies, about the coworker you flirt with? This is a long way of saying, some things are better left unsaid. This is my cross to bear. And people can and will disagree with that line of thinking. We all have to live our lives to the best of our abilities within the confines of our own minds and souls.

 

(That wasn't all directed at you Confused, it just came out, spurred by your question.)

[BHMM]

I only read (quickly) a few pages.. and it makes me laugh (not) to read how people could be so 'cold' and 'rational'.. about this A...

 

I would bet my life that the OP is a great dad and that his kids have NO idea he's having an affair... or even that the M to their mother is not all that great...

 

I would also bet anything that his W is not that unhappy... she most probably has no idea her H is having an affair so everything is good.

 

It's easy for people on a anonymous forum to tell other people.. 'Oh fine, leave your kids.. they'll be better off without you' WHAT!!!!! NO, they won't be.. the kids are better off with BOTH parents.. and btw .. the parents don't have to kiss and hug 24/7 in front of the kids to make their kids happy... WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

 

OP... don't listen to some meanies here who would be soooo happy to see your M crumble.. to see you as a part-time dad... to see your kids miserable with only one parent at a time.. Never mind them... do what is BEST for your kids..

 

Why do people think it's OK for a parent to put THEIR own happiness before their kids'..

Thanks Lizzie, very nice post.

 

And I think I'm a pretty good dad, and trying to get better every day.

[BHMM]

As a former MM (who had a MOW, so I can understand the pain on both sides in a way) I believe what he is saying. When I said the things I said, I meant them, as much as anyone can mean them. I really was truly torn tho, the A just kinda happened through some extraordinary circumstances, not through any real problems in the M. And now circumstances changed and the A is long over, and to BHMM, your road will probably be longer and harder than mine was because of your current feelings towards your W, but things do get better as time goes on. I too felt like I was going through the motions, but for me it was to get back where thoughts of the OW weren't flooding my mind and I could get back to my feelings for my W I had just months ago that I had been distracted from.

Thanks for sharing your story woddah. I'm glad you were able to recover. Hopefully I'll get there eventually too.

 

Thanks again for posting.

[Silly_Girl]

We all have to live our lives to the best of our abilities within the confines of our own minds and souls.

QUOTE]

 

Your wife, however, has to live her life within the confines of YOUR choices for her. Don't know that any of us would choose that for ourselves, you're pretty much playing God with her life.

 

I see and understand all your arguments, I really do, I just will never agree. I think that you're in a lose-lose situation, but I think your choice to sweep it under the rug is cruel.

[terrific]

I have no idea what God would want; I can barely figure out how to get through my own day.

 

It's a difficult question. The quick and easy answer is to admit the A to my W because, hey, everyone should always be completely honest with their spouse and tell them everything. People can justify it all they want, saying she deserves to know, and make a fully informed decision about whether to continue our M. And maybe there is some truth to that. But I still subscribe to the notion that bringing that pain to her is just not worth it. Destroy her so I can say, "we're completely honest with each other", and so I have a slightly clearer conscience? The cost-benefit is way out of whack. People keep a lot of secrets in their marriages. Do you all tell your spouse about every crush you develop, about your fantasies, about the coworker you flirt with? This is a long way of saying, some things are better left unsaid. This is my cross to bear. And people can and will disagree with that line of thinking. We all have to live our lives to the best of our abilities within the confines of our own minds and souls.

 

(That wasn't all directed at you Confused, it just came out, spurred by your question.)

"I can barely figure out how to get through my day".....a lot of truth in that. The telling or not telling part, you have decided, and it is done for now, it doesn't mean that circumstances may change or that you will eventually tell her. Sometimes I think the weight of carrying around the secret is my just punishment for what I have done.

[Owl]

Thanks Owl.

 

You and others have asked this a few times, and I feel like I'm taking an exam I didn't study for. I don't have specifics to offer. I'm just trying to refocus my energy and attention on my W and M, and trying to get over OW.

 

If you have specific suggestions I'm all ears.

 

Actually, this is why I asked the question. The fact that you don't HAVE specifics is the telling point. (Not slamming you here...just making the observation that you CAN'T re-invest in your marriage without making it a concentrated effort with specifics.)

 

I have some recommendations. The first one I have to offer is one that I know you'll refuse...so I won't dwell on it, but I personally feel that it's the most critical, and the most needed thing to have a SUCCESSFUL recovery.

 

1. Tell your wife about the affair. Let her know what you've been through, and make it clear how needed it is for your marriage to improve. (Yep, this is the one I knew you wouldn't like. )

 

2. Seek marriage counseling with someone who can help open the blocked/closed communication between you and your wife. Someone who can help you identify the gaps, and come up with ways to address them.

 

3. Start "courting" your wife again, just as you did years ago. (and as you did with OW as well) I know you're not going to be fully into this at first, but the heart often follows the actions. Once the two of you begin having fun on dates/activities/etc...it'll open the chance for the love to rebuild between you.

 

4. Actively work on improving the communications...work on paying more attention to her, and communicating more to her.

 

5. There are a couple of good books...I'd suggest reading "20 (Suprisingly Simple!) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage" by Dr Steve Stephens. Also "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman.

 

Start with this. Build from it with other things tailored to your own situation.

 

But the biggest thing is open, honest communication. How you get that without telling her the truth...I don't know.

 

I wish you the best of luck. Give me a shout if you have any interest in any other advice from me.

[BHMM]

BHMM, I don't know if you are real or not. I read your posts to my husband, and I won't tell you what he said. My/our skepticism is real but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Either way, I hope you heed Owl's wise words.

Again, I'm real, but I guess I have no way to prove it, so believe what you want.

 

I honestly don't know who would take the time and effort to make up this story, read through every response and then reply 50 times, but maybe this has happened before on LS.

 

You can tell me what your H said, now I'm interested. Is it something about how no guy would write like this? In case that was the argument, let me just say that: I used to write for a living; I've always been pretty in touch with my feelings; and I'm glad I'm a man, because I'd make really, really hairy woman.

[Minnie09]

I'm just wondering if you would keep lying to W if she asked you what was wrong, or if there was anything wrong. Would you come clean then, or still deny it? I'm asking because this was the reason I couldn't possibly stay with stbxH. Even when I confronted him several times, he insisted that there was NC. To me the A itself was bad enough, but the aftermath and how he handled it showed me how much disrespect he really had for me. There's almost nothing that could hurt a BW more, IMO.

 

Your situation is different, because you had no Dday. I understand that. But lying by omitting is not much different from lying, as far as respect and valuing the M are concerned.

[BHMM]

It is then the "cheater" who has a problem, be it having to split up with someone they love or wrestle with their conscience. They have to live with the emotional consequences and in this way they're being punished, but the innocent party is spared the hurt.

 

I've heard of spouses, usually W from what I recall, who stated that they would prefer not to be told about their H's A because as long as he wasn't leaving they were more comfortable in the M than out of it, and if they were told they would have to do something about it.

 

In case of OP his W clearly knows that something's going on and no doubt thought about the possibility of him loving someone else have entered her mind, but when they talked about separating she cried and said she didn't want it. Maybe she's one of these people who want to carry on hoping that bad times will pass and everything will be ok again, maybe staying as a family unit is most important to her and volunteering all the hurtful details would not overall lead to better outcome for her and their children.

Again Ellin, you hit the nail on the head. My thoughts exactly.

[Lizzie60]

BHMM... I totally support you in NOT telling your wife..

 

What would that pain to her bring you and her.. nothing.. except it would ruin any chance for you to work on your M...

 

Not all truth is good to say.. some councillor would discourage you from confessing.. you would hurt her.. and chances are.. your kids would find out.. what good would that bring to the family.. they do not deserve that..

 

Never mind the people who tell you to confess.. they are not in your shoes.. they don't know your story.. your wife.. etc.. (what if your W goes ballistic, in a deep depression, etc..)..

 

Not good.. stand by your beliefs..

[BHMM]

Good idea, but it won't help you. You have to be a member 30 days plus 50 posts. So... you have another 20-odd days. The only way you can have PM ability immediately is to become a supporting member. (I know this because I was surprised not to have immediate PM's )

 

It's interesting that you want to take this underground in the form of PM's since they will give you only one viewpoint.

Okay, thanks for the info.

 

I don't want to "take this underground"; I wouldn't abandon this thread. I just thought it might be nice to commiserate with some others 1-on-1.

[donnamaybe]

But to be totally honest with you.. I can very much doubt that you will 'love' your W again... you can continue living like room mates.. yes.. but like husband/wife again.. I doubt it.. but that's me.. you might prove me wrong though..

Nice way to sow seeds of doubt and anxiety. Is it perhaps because this could hit too close to being a truth such as "the MM really DOES love his W?"

 

BHMM, whatever you do, do it with all your might. If you are trying to rebuild your M, put your all into it, and do NOT listen to naysayers. If you decide, over time, that you cannot rebuild your M and you want to be with your OW, then do so with respect and honesty.