A MM's perspective

[Lizzie60]

I only read (quickly) a few pages.. and it makes me laugh (not) to read how people could be so 'cold' and 'rational'.. about this A...

 

I would bet my life that the OP is a great dad and that his kids have NO idea he's having an affair... or even that the M to their mother is not all that great...

 

I would also bet anything that his W is not that unhappy... she most probably has no idea her H is having an affair so everything is good.

 

It's easy for people on a anonymous forum to tell other people.. 'Oh fine, leave your kids.. they'll be better off without you' WHAT!!!!! NO, they won't be.. the kids are better off with BOTH parents.. and btw .. the parents don't have to kiss and hug 24/7 in front of the kids to make their kids happy... WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

 

OP... don't listen to some meanies here who would be soooo happy to see your M crumble.. to see you as a part-time dad... to see your kids miserable with only one parent at a time.. Never mind them... do what is BEST for your kids..

 

Why do people think it's OK for a parent to put THEIR own happiness before their kids'..

[woddah]

As a former MM (who had a MOW, so I can understand the pain on both sides in a way) I believe what he is saying. When I said the things I said, I meant them, as much as anyone can mean them. I really was truly torn tho, the A just kinda happened through some extraordinary circumstances, not through any real problems in the M. And now circumstances changed and the A is long over, and to BHMM, your road will probably be longer and harder than mine was because of your current feelings towards your W, but things do get better as time goes on. I too felt like I was going through the motions, but for me it was to get back where thoughts of the OW weren't flooding my mind and I could get back to my feelings for my W I had just months ago that I had been distracted from.

[LifesontheUp]

I only read (quickly) a few pages.. and it makes me laugh (not) to read how people could be so 'cold' and 'rational'.. about this A...

 

I would bet my life that the OP is a great dad and that his kids have NO idea he's having an affair... or even that the M to their mother is not all that great...

 

I would also bet anything that his W is not that unhappy... she most probably has no idea her H is having an affair so everything is good.

 

It's easy for people on a anonymous forum to tell other people.. 'Oh fine, leave your kids.. they'll be better off without you' WHAT!!!!! NO, they won't be.. the kids are better off with BOTH parents.. and btw .. the parents don't have to kiss and hug 24/7 in front of the kids to make their kids happy... WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

 

OP... don't listen to some meanies here who would be soooo happy to see your M crumble.. to see you as a part-time dad... to see your kids miserable with only one parent at a time.. Never mind them... do what is BEST for your kids..

 

Why do people think it's OK for a parent to put THEIR own happiness before their kids'..

 

If he wants to be with his OW then he should go be with her.

 

Marriages break down every single day and the kids are fine - its a fact of life.

 

Another fact of life is that people have affairs. In having his affair he WAS NOT thinking of his kids for 3 YEARS. Its a miracle that after 3 years he now wants to put his kids first..............come on pull the other one it has bells on. Something went wrong, perhaps his OW wanted more from him, who knows. But 3 years is a long time of thinking of himself and NOT his kids.

[desertIslandCactus]

I only read (quickly) a few pages.. and it makes me laugh (not) to read how people could be so 'cold' and 'rational'.. about this A...

 

I would bet my life that the OP is a great dad and that his kids have NO idea he's having an affair... or even that the M to their mother is not all that great...

 

I would also bet anything that his W is not that unhappy... she most probably has no idea her H is having an affair so everything is good.

 

It's easy for people on a anonymous forum to tell other people.. 'Oh fine, leave your kids.. they'll be better off without you' WHAT!!!!! NO, they won't be.. the kids are better off with BOTH parents.. and btw .. the parents don't have to kiss and hug 24/7 in front of the kids to make their kids happy... WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

 

OP... don't listen to some meanies here who would be soooo happy to see your M crumble.. to see you as a part-time dad... to see your kids miserable with only one parent at a time.. Never mind them... do what is BEST for your kids..

 

Why do people think it's OK for a parent to put THEIR own happiness before their kids'..

 

 

Because that's what some do. They strive to break up marriages, in order to have their way - then they boast of 'blending' families.

[Ellin]

I know it's a bit of a t/j, but I don't think I've ever saw a thread grow this fast or have so many comments so quickly.

 

I wonder if this reflects how desperate some OW are for confirmation of what they suspect but don't know from their MM. Perhaps we should take what BHMM says as his truth, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's every MM's truth, it's just his. It's nice to get the workings and thoughts of a mm, but to assume that he speaks for most isn't really fair.

 

Just food for thought and it's sad, me thinks.

 

What are you talking about, BB07?

 

I think the posts where OW express their appreciation were quickly outnumbered by ones that criticised OP's actions, questioned his authenticity etc.

 

Why don't you call the motivation of those posters desperate?

 

I don't think any OW said that all MM and their feelings are the same, but many say they believe their MM loves them or that it is possible, as opposed to some who display a blanket refusal to accept this possibility.

[NancyBotwin]

I think that this is excellent advice...for EVERYONE on the board, to include the person who wrote it.

 

Everyone seems to be looking for the answer that fits their own viewpoint.

 

Why not just let BHMM post, and EVERYONE (BS and OW/OM alike) listen rather than try to mold him to fit what you want to hear?

Ah, such wise words, Owl! What fascinates me so about this forum is how people twist things to suit them. As we said earlier in this thread, the answers are really simple yet they get twisted in such dramatic fashion to avoid the real truth.

 

You posted something on another thread and I'd like to quote it here if you don't mind...

You can't make someone see something if they refuse to open their eyes.

 

You can't make someone feel regret/remorse/guilt if they refuse to accept responsibility.

Word.

 

BHMM, I don't know if you are real or not. I read your posts to my husband, and I won't tell you what he said. My/our skepticism is real but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Either way, I hope you heed Owl's wise words.

[donnamaybe]

BHMM, I don't know if you are real or not. I read your posts to my husband, and I won't tell you what he said. My/our skepticism is real but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Either way, I hope you heed Owl's wise words.

If someone made up a new persona on this forum (and I am NOT saying anyone did - just addressing this post) for the sole purpose of trying to convince people that there really are MM who truly love their OW, then they would only be serving to shoot themselves in the foot. I mean, if someone had to go to THOSE lengths, then what would that mean regarding what they, themselves, really believe?

[BB07]

What are you talking about, BB07?

 

I think the posts where OW express their appreciation were quickly outnumbered by ones that criticised OP's actions, questioned his authenticity etc.

 

Why don't you call the motivation of those posters desperate?

 

I don't think any OW said that all MM and their feelings are the same, but many say they believe their MM loves them or that it is possible, as opposed to some who display a blanket refusal to accept this possibility.

 

Ellin, it wasn't a slam against OW, not at all. It's an observation in that OW are in such a precarious position, (remember I used to be one, knowingly) that I was projecting how I felt back then. I was desperate and almost to the point of being obsessed about the thinking inside xmm head. I wanted to know why, how, when, etc.. It about drove me mad. I see a lot of similarities with some of the OW here as to how I felt back then.

 

I didn't question his authenticity, if you thought that was what I was doing, you are mistaken, and furthermore I do believe that BHMM is in love with his OW and I don't subscribe to the mantra that all mm are lying asshats and they just want a side piece.

 

It's been several years since I was willingly the OW, so I have some time and distance between then and now and well my recent experience (unknowing OW), that's a totally different thing, but it still figures in to my views. Seems I often find myself somewhere in the middle, not extreme views either way and I was just expressing that.

[Ellin]

Ellin, it wasn't a slam against OW, not at all. It's an observation in that OW are in such a precarious position, (remember I used to be one, knowingly) that I was projecting how I felt back then. I was desperate and almost to the point of being obsessed about the thinking inside xmm head. I wanted to know why, how, when, etc.. It about drove me mad. I see a lot of similarities with some of the OW here as to how I felt back then.

 

I didn't question his authenticity, if you thought that was what I was doing, you are mistaken, and furthermore I do believe that BHMM is in love with his OW and I don't subscribe to the mantra that all mm are lying asshats and they just want a side piece.

 

It's been several years since I was willingly the OW, so I have some time and distance between then and now and well my recent experience (unknowing OW), that's a totally different thing, but it still figures in to my views. Seems I often find myself somewhere in the middle, not extreme views either way and I was just expressing that.

 

OK, I understand now where you're coming from, thanks for explaining.

[Confused4Now]

If he wants to be with his OW then he should go be with her.

 

Marriages break down every single day and the kids are fine - its a fact of life.

 

Another fact of life is that people have affairs. In having his affair he WAS NOT thinking of his kids for 3 YEARS. Its a miracle that after 3 years he now wants to put his kids first..............come on pull the other one it has bells on. Something went wrong, perhaps his OW wanted more from him, who knows. But 3 years is a long time of thinking of himself and NOT his kids.

Not putting down the MM but I myself would like to get the OW side of the story....I mean come one 3+ years. I'm sure there was gas-lighting, lying, manipulation on the MM's part.

[BHMM]

Responding to individual posts today to up my post count so I can PM.

 

BHMM, you don't seem terribly committed to your marriage, you seem a little lukewarm about trying to reconnect with your wife and you don't seem that you feel very strongly about making it work with her. Although I think that that's probably very normal, while you're feeling apathetic about the marriage and still looking wistfully over your shoulder at the OW, you may as well still be having an affair. Do you see what I mean?

 

 

I agree with some of this -- you pretty well described what I'm feeling at the moment. Though I don't feel like I "may as well still be having the affair" - I couldn't waste any more of OW's time, and I'm already home more and more present here than I've been the past 3+ years. Even though I'm not full-on blasting through the reconciliation, I'm slowly moving in that direction. I like to think that's progress.

 

What tangible steps are you taking to make the marriage work and rebuild your love and desire for your wife?

As I've said, just redirecting all the energy and attention I used to put ito the A, back into my M and onto my W.

 

Also, what steps are you taking to ensure that this scenario doesn't reoccur if you meet another woman to whom you have a connection with?

I'm not sure I've considered that, that is something I will have to look into. Right now I can't see that happening, but I know how everyone can be vulnerable, especially someone with my history, so I am open to suggestions.

 

It feels to me that the only way a marriage can truly move forward after an affair is if the BS knows about it and there is nothing hidden. I need to dash now, but I'd really like to explore that more and get other's feelings about it.

I can understand that viewpoint, but I'm not going to tell W about it.

[BHMM]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t56954/

 

To help you with NC. Sit and read...It's long but worth the read, it's helped thousands on LS.

 

Hopefully as time goes on, your fog will lift and you'll be able to start to feel more towards your wife. I do believe that the love is there, its' just been buried.

Thanks you for the link, it looks helpful. And thanks for the encouraging words, I do believe love is there too, that's what I'm trying to recover.

[Ellin]

The two bolded segments show what I view as never letting the BS have a choice in their own lives. :sick:They didn't make the choice for the cheating to happen and they don't get to make the choice to stay with the person who cheated on them. IF the BS were to leave the marriage because she didn't want to be with her WS any longer and she left only to end up alone...it would be here choice right? When is a BS allowed to make their own decisions? Or is some unwritten rule that it only gets to happen when it won't throw a monkey wrench in the lives of the AP and WS?

 

 

Or is it possible that the real reason the BS is kept in the dark is because the WS is afraid that the BS won't want to stay with them? They will be rejected and lose their comfort zone? Maybe it is suspected that the BS isn't as thrilled with being with the WS either? Maybe a relationship with a single guy would be a bad thing. But it should be her right to decide if that is something she wants to pursue. OP did say he did think about another man being in his children's lives. But it appears he didn't give that same consideration to his wife wanting to see another woman in her children's life.

 

I'm just not sure about this issue and doesn't seem so clear-cut to me. Not in every case of infidelity, but in some I believe it is better for everyone involved, and kinder, to keep it secret. An example would be of a ONS, after which the WS is full of regret and remorse and never wants to do it again. When something's entirely in the past and the culprit is working hard on making amends it might be better to carry on than hurting many people with the truth of what's done and gone and disrupting their lives.

 

It is then the "cheater" who has a problem, be it having to split up with someone they love or wrestle with their conscience. They have to live with the emotional consequences and in this way they're being punished, but the innocent party is spared the hurt.

 

I've heard of spouses, usually W from what I recall, who stated that they would prefer not to be told about their H's A because as long as he wasn't leaving they were more comfortable in the M than out of it, and if they were told they would have to do something about it.

 

In case of OP his W clearly knows that something's going on and no doubt thought about the possibility of him loving someone else have entered her mind, but when they talked about separating she cried and said she didn't want it. Maybe she's one of these people who want to carry on hoping that bad times will pass and everything will be ok again, maybe staying as a family unit is most important to her and volunteering all the hurtful details would not overall lead to better outcome for her and their children.

[jennie-jennie]

Not putting down the MM but I myself would like to get the OW side of the story....I mean come one 3+ years. I'm sure there was gas-lighting, lying, manipulation on the MM's part.

 

Why? There hasn't been in my 4+ year relationship.

[BHMM]

You poor thing, you are really getting it from some people...

 

The withdrawal from your OW is the same as what I am still going through 8 months later, I just wish it would go away! The awful sick feeling in your stomach, the anxiety, the never ending questions zooming around in my mind. I also didn't sleep for months and still find myself waking up at night a few times per week thinking about things.

 

I know you are determined to keep up NC with OW but sometimes I am really unsure that this is the best way to go. You must know that she is hurting and missing you beyond belief. Going from having constant contact with them to zero is awful. My xMM went NC with me, I didn't have a choice after he moved back home (for the "right" reasons ), I was thrown under the bus. Every now and then I really would love to hear that he is ok....I am sure, on occassion, you both would like to know that each other is ok also. If you really want to reconcile your M, you can still have LC as long as you have the strength to not go any further...

 

There are a lot of people on here that are more than happy to help and support you, whether right or wrong information, you can take bits and pieces and see what works for you.

 

By the way, counting backwards from 200 by 3's often helps me to fall asleep eventually.

September,

 

Thanks for your post. Sorry you're going through the same thing. Wow, 8 months later and it's still that bad? That sucks. I'll have to think about the LC thing down the line. I think it would be fine, I'm not worried about backsliding (trust me, it is over); I just don't know if I could handle hearing about her moving on, etc. But of course I want to know that she's okay, and I would hope she wonders about me too.

 

Thanks for the sleep tip! I actually got about 5 good hours last night...

[BHMM]

BHMM,

 

Let's forget all the attacks we knew you were going to get posting as a MM. It is rare to see a MM post here and for obvious reason, look at how you're being treated. People want to chase you away because you admit to loving the OW and to not loving your W enough.

 

And here you are trying to 'do the right thing' and still you're being persecuted. Well I say forget them and post post post away.

 

I have a question for you. How did it end with OW? What did you tell her, how did you end it? Did she fight it? Did she hate you for ending it? Or did she gladly set you free?

 

It might help you move on if you can hash it out.

 

Hugs.

Thanks Flower. I understand some of the attacks, but I wasn't expecting to have my authenticity questioned. I guess I should've been prepared for that, but I wasn't, and it just got to me.

 

To answer your questions, it ended as a long, long talk, like we'd had so many times before. I told her I couldn't do it and she needed to move on. Yes, she fought it, a lot. I don't know if she hated me, I hope not. She did not gladly set me free, but I hope she feels some relief from the whole thing being over.

 

Thanks again for posting.

[BHMM]

This is extremely telling, BHMM. Feels to me that there are benefits to you posting bit fundamentally it's you reaching out to OW without breaking NC. Which explains 100% why you sound less invested in your marriage. Simply, you ARE less invested. You need to talk to a counsellor about your split with OW, it's a life-changing experience, where you are now, and if you found yourself unable to move on further you truly would be an awful user, squatting in your marriage and selfishly keeping your wife prisoner.

 

I know you're hurting, I think you need to try and get over your OW before you have a fighting chance of being a husband or good father.!

You do have a point, but let me explain that the seed of my idea to post my story was planted by this brief thought that she might see it; that was it. I didn't even think about that fact again until I mentioned it last night in a reply to someone. It was mostly for my own good, just to get it out, and I thought it may have some peripheral benefit to others here. In other words, hoping OW would possibly see this was a tertiary motivation at best.

 

Anyway, back to your point. I was considering counseling to help me get through this. If I'm going to re-commit to my W, I owe it to her to completely get over OW.

[BHMM]

BHMM, I haven't read through much of this thread...just enough to see that you're tired of defending yourself. If you just want someone to talk to, PM me if that's possible here. I'm going through something similar, and I get that you're not the typical guy, or MM, or whatever this forum calls you.

 

I completely get that you're worn out by so many things...the affair, trying to reconcile with your wife, and even just trying to be intimate with her while you're dealing with this heartbreak.

 

I never thought I'd be in this situation, and it's pretty much impossible to describe how profoundly strange it feels in the midst of it, or how complicated it really is. Talking about it among dozens of strangers proves less comforting than you originally thought it would be, since you have to sift through thinly guised verbal assaults to find a few people who just plain "get" it.

 

So message me if you just want someone who will listen, and share a similar experience...I know I'd really like to talk to a completely objective and non-judgmental stranger who is just trying to get past this.

Thanks for the post carrie. You really summed up what this is like for me too. I'm sorry you're going through the same thing, it is awful. I hope you're doing okay and feeling better soon.

 

I'd be up for PMing with you or anyone who wants to comisserate. Hopefully I'll get to 50 posts by the end of the day.

[NancyBotwin]

Responding to individual posts today to up my post count so I can PM.

Good idea, but it won't help you. You have to be a member 30 days plus 50 posts. So... you have another 20-odd days. The only way you can have PM ability immediately is to become a supporting member. (I know this because I was surprised not to have immediate PM's )

 

It's interesting that you want to take this underground in the form of PM's since they will give you only one viewpoint.

[BHMM]

BHHM, could I possibly PM you?

Sure, if we can get it to work?

[herenow]

I can understand that viewpoint, but I'm not going to tell W about it.

 

Are you afraid your wife won't want to stay married to a man who loves an OW? If that is the case, then why are you condemning her to a life you know she doesn't want? Or, if you aren't sure, don't you think she deserves a chance to live her life as she chooses? Not the life you chose for her without her knowledge.

[terrific]

BHHM, I am glad you slept a little and it is hard to get over her and work on the marriage at the same time. I have no doubts that she is still missing you and thinking of you. I have been told a thousand times over to not care what the OM thinks, and well, that is just easier said than done.

[NancyBotwin]

Good idea, but it won't help you. You have to be a member 30 days plus 50 posts. So... you have another 20-odd days. The only way you can have PM ability immediately is to become a supporting member. (I know this because I was surprised not to have immediate PM's )

I feel like an enabler, but here's the supporting member info: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/subscribe/

[terrific]

I paid the $2.50 for PM...I figured it was cheaper than the carton of ice cream I wanted to drown my sorrows in.

[BHMM]

In bold, man I totally hear you, he must be...it's a whole lot of emotional stuff..IMO I think men sometimes do better with this stuff...I wear my emotions on my shoulder.

 

Carrie hugs to you and Terrific, both going through such turmoil also..I'm not sure what will work for you ladies, although I really wish the best:).

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, although I think the 50 posts within a certain timeframe (like 60 days I think)..then you will see "Established Member" underneath, which gives the ability to PM...or become a supporting member which gives it instantly...it is under LS Questions (or something like that).

 

Actually, I think being single is easier (this concerns BHMM's OW and Terrifics OM..Carrie, I am not sure totally of your sitch:o) as I was in an EA with a MM who is now exDM...the only thing I had to deal with was myself and the things that concerned me...I think you guys are right to say it is more complicated in your circumstances.

 

I think you guys are doing great and I say we all have a glass of wine...don't tell Tony (he's the LS Mod) though because he asks that we not drink and drive on LS so ssshhhhh....anyway I just want to forget about everything right now because I join you all as I am in a bit of turmoil also...BUT, the bright side is, it could be worst, right????

 

It is during these times that I reflect on the things I take for granted, like just plain being alive, being able to see, to communicate, to love etc.

 

I am not being insensitive, just want to lighten the atmosphere:)...BHMM, think of the grandkids you will have, I am watching my granddaughter sleep right now ( I'm a VERY young grandmother:D) ...you have a wonderful future...you know what...we all do...and like you guys, my kids are my life and now for me grandkids...that's all she wrote and I totally understand...anyway GBU all....and in 5 years this will be a distant memory:)

 

BHMM, I bet you slept good tonight...you guys are great BTW...

Thanks for the uplifting post pureinheart. I'm trying to be more optimistic and hoping today will be a better day.

 

I hope it's true that being single makes it easier; I already put OW through so much. I really hope she can move on much more quickly than me and find some new real happiness.

 

I slept pretty well, thanks!