Can't be friends with Ex, he is such a disrespectful pig

[befuddled11]

I hate dated a guy for a few months back in the late fall/winter. Some might recall my posts about him.....(Moimeme?). He initially represented himself as a good wholesome guy who had had a wild past, but was well past that and was at the stage in his life (age 35) where he was much more mature, was looking for the right person to settle down with/have a family.

 

As time passed, I learned what a pig he was. He would frequently, sometimes right out of the blue, go into graphic detail about his past sexual encounters, threesomes when he was younger, how he used to pick up married women when he was younger...to make a long story short, his views on sex and intimacy and mine were completely different. His principles and morals differed greatly with mine. He often spoke crudely about sex (and no, I'm not a prude)....often telling me about some chick he'd "nailed" or "banged" in the past....it was bizarre..he was like a teenage boy who was out of control with his inappropriate talk.

 

Despite all that, he did have some good qualities and did have a good heart. However, I broke up with him because it was more than obvious that we could simply never have a future together. He was just too immature and piggish.

 

He wrote me a couple months ago, saying he did miss our friendship....and could we consider being friends...just hanging out from time to time, how he enjoyed my sense of humor and how we did get along. I had no ill feelings toward him, I'm not one to hold a grudge, and if anything, I felt glad to have realized how "different" we were fairly early on...as opposed to investing a lot of time with him, only to find out much later.

 

So we began talking on the phone. I sincerely didn't ever want to be back with him and I made that clear...and he acknowledged that. But our phone conversations would end up turning to sex. I'd try to steer them away from that, not because I'm a prude but because I generally don't partake in explicit sexual talk with friends (DUH!). He then revealed to me, as "friends" how he'd done some kinky things with the gal he'd been in a long term relationship with prior to me. Needless to say, these revelations were shocking because he'd always clearly lead me to believe that his wild, freaky, kinky days were years before, in his early 20s. Long story short, had I known when I began dating him that he was still such a pig, I would have never given him the time of day in a "relationship" sort of way.......it then became clear that he's the kind of guy who thinks the greatest thing in life would be for his girlfriend or WIFE to one day offer to bring home her drunk girlfriend for him, to sleep with...that that's a fantasy he and the EX carried out. Okay, fine, but this ain't my thing.....and I am sort of disgusted that I ever got mixed up with someone who has such views, who INITIALLY made himself out to be such a "good straighlaced guy."

 

Anyway, during the brief "Friendship" phase, he made no secret about asking if we could have sex...he was half joking,half serious. I told him to dream on, that I don't do the friends with benefits thing, and he should have known better. He didn't give up, though. I was pretty grossed out because I made it clear I only wanted friendship..and it seemed like he was disrespecting me and ignoring my beliefs.

 

So a month passes and I decide he's just too much of a pig and that it's impossible to have a platonic friendship with him.

 

Well he calls yesterday, we get to talking. He acknowledges that I likely think he's a pig/pervert...but that deep down inside, he's a good person......and that i'm the only person who knows him so well, because with me he feels he can say anything (oh yeah!..more than I need to know). I WISH we could be friends because he's a lot of fun, he could make me laugh like nobody else......we could totally be ourselves with each other......I mean, this is a guy who was very down to earth, and made me feel free to totally be myself. I enjoyed a lot of our conversations and discussions about everything from life to politics to religion to current events, etc.

 

but before long, like clockwork, he turns the conversation to sex. He then asks if I'd ever want to have sex with him. I laughed and told him "no"...... He then starts trying to butter me up by saying things like, "God, I remember some of your best qualities...you have killer green eyes, great t*ts, and man could you ever give a good BJ." He then asks if I'm not willing to have sex with him, could he at least come over and "eat me out"......if we could just perform oral on each other. Of course I have to roll my eyes and be disgusted that I've just spent the last hour on the phone with him, talking about home improvement stuff, things he's done in his home, how our respective pets are, how work is going, etc.

 

I can see now that it is completely out of the question to ever think we could be friends because there's something seriously wrong with him. He knows very clearly what my morals are, and how I don't do the "friends with benefits" thing....and that I only want to be friends..yet he is still so crude and crass to still ask if we could screw around. He still has no respect for me.

 

Why would a guy be such a loser like this? He's made it clear that he's missed our conversations and doing things together (going for drives, going shopping together, watching our favorite movies/TV shows together..things that friends do).....but he has to keep friggin blowing it by bringing everything back to wanting sex with me. So when I tell him that we're obviously VERY different in this area, he goes on about how he's still a good person with a big heart......

 

What the hell is wrong with this 35 yr old man? I've NEVER had an ex in my life who was this relentless and disrespectful. And I've been as CLEAR as a girl could be, that I'm not some ho, and that NO, I don't miss having sex with him, and NO I am not interested in hooking up with him.

 

Any insight?

 

For the record, I don't think I'll ever speak to him again because it's clear that he's incapable of having a simple friendship. He's just a pig.

[fallenangel]

sounds like a total loser who wouldn't be worthy of your friendship, based on how he treats you with such a lack of respect, even still.

[Arabess]

Every now and then....it just seems as though you'll run across a person like that.

 

I've never figured out why they say share the most intimate details of their life using the kind of vulgar launguage you would expect only to read on some sex starved porno site!!!

 

I wonder if you told him exactly what the problem was....if he would clean up his act???? Maybe he really thinks he's coming across as sexy....rather than crass.

[befuddled11]

Despite our differences, we speak very frankly about things....and that goes for me, too. I have been extremely clear in telling him that I think he's out of line to want to ask if I want to have sex with him, but he just thinks it's all funny. Last night when we were talking on the phone, I thought it was a really good conversation....we're both into home reno stuff, and he was explaining to me how he put in laminate flooring in his house. We talked about a lot of stuff like this, but of course he somehow turned it around to sex. He would then say things like, "come on now, how long has it been since you had sex? when you were with me a few months ago? come on, you're horny now, aren't you...be honest." The guy is an idiot and I can see why he doesn't have many friends. He seems socially stunted.

 

I actually came right out and asked him, "do you ask for sex and talk this way to your other female friends?" (assuming he has some, I don't know for sure)...he just laughed and said he didn't but that with "us", he felt free to just be himself and then proceeded to on about how important it is to be with someone you can say anything to.

 

What kind of guy, when you've made it clear that you'll never ever have sex with them again, that you ONLY want to be friends, comes right out and asks, "how about I come over there and I can eat you out?" And he's dead serious when he asks.

 

Oh ya know? He's such a freak that he's not even worth the time I'm taking to type this all out. I just am clueless as to why a grown man could be this f*cked up and stupid.

[Raja22]

This is a long story that I have to tell- I have a huge problem

 

I dated this guy for about 7 years. He was my high school sweat heart and my first love. To make a long story short we were young and in love. He cheated on me many times but again we were 16 years old. Time went on and he enlisted into the military. He wanted to marry someone so that he could get more money. He asked me, But I said no - I wasn't ready. So he asked some other girl that he knew for about a year. Of course she said yes and now they are married. I was asked to be his wife first.

 

He now has a baby and is unhappily married. (Who would've thought). I have seen this man on and off since he's been married. He says that he does not love his wife but loves me. He is now in Iraq and I now have a wonderful boyfriend who worships the ground that I walk on. I am deeply in love with my ex even though the last time I saw him I pretended not to be. I still keep in close contact with his family. We are all really good friends. I am an emotional wreck because I love this man more than life itself. I feel that I cannot breathe if something were to happen to him while he was away at war. I want to tell him how I feel but this is such a hard situation. I don't want to break up a marriage(even if it's just for a paycheck) and now there is a baby involved as well as my wonderful boyfriend. My boyfriend does not need to get hurt.

 

I think about him everyday and I long for him. My soul ache's without him near me. He is my soul mate. I want him back A.S.A.P

What do I do? This is very important- He cheats on his wife with other women other than me- He says that if I would've married him that things would be different. He says he's just very unhappy. Should I tell him how I really feel? What am I going to do? We are still deeply in love with each other

 

Please someone give me some advice!!!!!!!!!

[moimeme]

He initially represented himself as a good wholesome guy

 

And herein is the reason people need to know their partners VERY well before deciding to marry/live with/whatever. People can be in total denial about their problems; in fact people with the most serious problems will undoubtedly believe that they are perfectly fine and you need to give yourself time to figure out what the true story is.

 

Your guy is not a pig, nor is he a freak nor an idiot. You say: He seems socially stunted

You are right on the money. He's got some social skills issues and is possibly a form of exhibitionist. From everything you described before, I still think he could be AD/HD - and people with AD/HD often have major social skills issues. They don't 'get' how to behave appropriately because they weren't able to learn while they were growing up. Both AD/HD exes of mine (the alcoholic abuser was probably also AD/HD) were overtly sexual and acted inappropriately in this regard. Fortunately, both spared me details of their previous sexual experiences, but the frequent suggestions out of context, etc. would happen.

 

Mind you, some of it could just be upbringing. He may well have grown up in, to put it unkindly, 'trailer trash' surroundings. There are folks whose regular discourse contains a lot of sexual content as a matter of course and that is how he may have been socialized. I hate to sound like a snob, but this could also be the case with your ex.

[befuddled11]

As for the possible "trailer trash" upbringing, no, definitely not for him. Very conservative WASP parents. From the things he's told me about what his Mother tried to instill in him growing up, it seems she tried very hard, from the time he was young (he has 2 brothers, too, no sisters), to teach him to treat women like ladies, with respect, to be a gentleman. I've met his parents personally.

 

I guess the ADHD thing might really be possible with him. I actually, during our last "friends phase" asked him if he'd ever been told he had ADD as a child...he said he didn't recall being told that.

 

I guess it doesn't matter. Maybe he has ADHD, maybe he doesn't. I still don't think anything excuses his crudeness and disrespect toward me. I know for a fact he wouldn't speak that way to a female colleague, or to a friend of the family...so you know he knows when it's right and when it's wrong. He's a grown man, and is responsible for the things that come out of his mouth. I will not ever give him another chance for friendship, he's just not worth it. I'd get more out of a friendship with a mudflap.

 

If he was truly ADHD, though.....he obviously had the wherewithall to hide these elements of his personality in the very beginning.......so that shows me that he's fully in control and aware of his piggishness. I will not make excuses for his immature behavior.

[moimeme]

he obviously had the wherewithall to hide these elements of his personality in the very beginning..

 

Having AD/HD doesn't mean you're totally out of control. And, in fact, every partner of an AD/HD person will tell you exactly the same thing; as it turns out, the early stages of a relationship actually mitigate the effects of AD/HD because being in love (infatuation, whatever) stimulates the brain the same way Ritalin does. Every partner of an AD/HD person will tell you that he was SO different/romantic/wonderful, etc. etc. at the beginning of the relationship and that it was only later that the flaws came out.

 

However, if you prefer to despise him rather than to think of him as a flawed being, that's your prerogative.

[befuddled11]

However, if you prefer to despise him rather than to think of him as a flawed being, that's your prerogative.

 

Considering you've admitted to having been in relationships in the past, with 2, possibly 3 men who had AD/HD, either you're attracted to this type and have some kind of fondness for them (a desire to rescue them?), or hell, I don't know...but maybe unlike you, I don't excuse someone's tacky, crassy, crude, disrespectful behavior and say "oh well, he may or may NOT have AD/HD." I don't know if he has that, neither do you. You/I can only speculate. Neither of us are psychologists or psychiatrists.

 

Frankly, I grow tired of people who display bad behavior, which includes screwing around, beating their spouses, having affairs...and there always being someone in the crowd who justifies their bad judgment/behavior, and attributes it to the one of a million new "disorders" out there.

 

It's time people take friggin personal responsibility for their behavior and treatment of others. My ex knew enough not to speak crudely around my family, and not his. He had no difficult adhering to "boundaries" when it suited him....but with me, perhaps he just got a kick out of being a filthy pig.

 

We're all flawed beings, but I'm not going to sit back and light a candle for the guy who can't even have a civil conversation without abruptly suggesting he come over to my house to "eat me out".....only moments after asking how my family's doing. I don't care what kind of "problems" he has. I'm not his rescuer or his therapist or his Mommy. I'm looking for an equal, and that includes within the confines of a friendship. I will never justify or excuse being mistreated or disrespected.

[yes]

there's a big difference between deciding to be with somebody who has a mental disorder vs. simply accepting that their issues aren't entirely their fault. there's also a difference between calling someone a pig vs. seeing their issues and getting away because you don't wanna deal with them.

 

as a general rule, i think it's best to get away if u'r ill-suited, without bashing the other party. although it may help make you feel better.

 

my 2c,

-yes

[moimeme]

Thanks, yes - good points.

 

Befuddled;

 

I happen to prefer to not hate people where I can. I do my best to understand what makes them tick. What makes some people tick is disorder. They may not tick well because of it; they may do things I dislike, but as in another post today, I don't believe that makes them bad or awful or, as you are delighting in saying, 'pigs'.

 

It is precisely my preference to NOT characterize people based on their actions that compels me to try to understand motivations for behaviour and to comprehend when people behave 'badly' because they really don't know better or can't do better. And, IMHO, VERY FEW people do badly deliberately, which is why I disagree with the 'take responsibility' BS. It is one thing to comprehend that one is doing wrong and to need to take measures to change that - that, IMHO, is a reasonable expectation of how one ought to 'take responsibility' for his actions. However, too many people use the whole 'take responsibility' argument to excuse their refusal to make allowances for others' flaws and problems and inabilities.

 

Your ex has social skills problems. He did not choose to have them. Yes, he should get help for them and learn to behave differently, but that doesn't make him able to do so now. It doesn't mean he's a 'pig'. There aren't a lot of humans that deserve such contempt, in fact. He's just a person who doesn't 'get it'. He never may. That's no reason to call him a pig.

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by moimeme Every partner of an AD/HD person will tell you that he was SO different/romantic/wonderful, etc. etc. at the beginning of the relationship and that it was only later that the flaws came out.

But isn't this the case with virtually ALL relationships?

 

Moimeme - It is my observation that you seem to attribute a LOT of people's problems to AD/HD. I realize you have experience with people with AD/HD, but you don't know the people who are posted about on this forum, yet there are numerous times that you seem to come to the conclusion that they must have AD/HD. I think I speak for several people when I say it gets kind of old.

 

I don't dislike you and I think you sometimes give great advice, so please don't take offense. We're all entitled to our opinions.

[befuddled11]

Originally posted by yes

there's a big difference between deciding to be with somebody who has a mental disorder vs. simply accepting that their issues aren't entirely their fault. there's also a difference between calling someone a pig vs. seeing their issues and getting away because you don't wanna deal with them.

 

as a general rule, i think it's best to get away if u'r ill-suited, without bashing the other party. although it may help make you feel better.

 

my 2c,

-yes

 

Maybe I shouldn't be, and I didn't post what I did expecting to be told "oh you poor thing, yes he is a pig"....but I AM a bit surprised to see that SOME of the women responding, seemingly strong women (who seem strong from many of their past responses), are somehow excusing my ex's behavior.

 

First of all, about this "bashing" issue....who cares what I write here? It's not like I tell him to come here and see what I've written about him, I don't call him a pig to his face (err, on the phone). Like many others, I'm simply using this place as a place to vent..and perhaps get some insight from others who've dealt with a piggish ex like this, as to WHY they are like this.

 

Of COURSE I won't have anything to do with this dude any more.....I've offered friendship twice and been clear as a bell as to what I would offer (friendship, nothing more..and I didn't say anything of a seductive/flirtatious nature to lead him on). It's not the point, really, as to whether I do or don't have anything to do with him any longer......that one's a no-brainer. I'm just trying to understand why a guy who supposedly once cared about me, who I'm no longer together with (Yes, I initiated it, but based on our differences, I'm sure it was more than mutual....he's better suited for a woman who likes to listen to him talk about all the "chicks he banged" in the past), would speak so inappropriately to me. When one minute we're talking about "what's new", "how's your family?" "have you done any new renos to your house?" "how's your cat?" "how's work going?" and then 2 minutes later, out of the blue, he's asking "so why don't I come over and you can sit on a chair and you can spread your legs and I can eat you out. You haven't had sex since we were together, you MUST be horny."

 

I don't buy the ADHD thing with him, I've thought more about that this afternoon. A person with impulse control problems, who has a true problem with just blurting stupid things out and not being able to stop from saying rude, crass things is going to be like that consistently.....he/she isn't going to be able to pick and choose who he/she says those things to.

 

There actually ARE men (and I'm not just singling out men but I obviously dont' date women so can't speak about them) out there who are just plain old pigs who get a kick out of pushing the envelope and pushing the limits......and I guess they just see women as something to "f*ck" and sex is always on their mind and I guess they think they can wear you down if they beg enough. There are just men out there who simply don't really respect women and I guess they figure that they'd f*ck anything that walked and breathed so that must just be "human nature", thereby, women must be like that too.

 

I don't know. All I know is that in all my 36 yrs, and my past 20 yrs of dating, I've never really seen much point in being friends with an ex.....but decided that maybe that was narrowminded of me, and when my ex suggested we do just that, after thinking about it, I agreed that I'd give it a shot, as long as he was fully aware that there'd never ever be any "FWB" going on. He assured me he understood this, but his crudeness says otherwise. God, I've even DATED guys (openminded) who wouldn't even have the nerve to call me up and say "hey babe, I want to come see you so I can eat you out."

 

Oh well, I didn't come here to get into an argument. I just came here to try and get some perspective. No worries.

[moimeme]

I'm just trying to understand ....would speak so inappropriately to me

 

And I was just trying to propose suggestions to assist you in that. However, you prefer to think ill of him, so be my guest.

 

A person with impulse control problems, who has a true problem with just blurting stupid things out and not being able to stop from saying rude, crass things is going to be like that consistently.....he/she isn't going to be able to pick and choose who he/she says those things to.

 

Until you read several hundred articles on AD/HD, please do not assume you understand it. In fact, the behaviours of the person are usually inconsistent, which is why people have difficulty comprehending this condition.