Walking away in silence...why?

[willowthewisp]

She wasn't really aware of what was going through my mind and didn't know it was coming. Willowthewisp appeared to be in the same situation, except on the other side.

 

How much hurt is caused by simply getting up and going without trying to talk, or work it out properly.

 

 

This is EXACTLY what happened to me Witabix, in fact I will even go so far as to say my ex deliberately led me to believe everything was good, by his own admission he kept his thoughts well hidden from me. The first I heard of any of his complaints was after he left, all new stuff to me.

 

His excuse for not trying to work it out was people aren't capable of change, but then in the same breath he acknowledged I had previously changed at his request some years earlier. He then changed this to he couldn't be bothered because it was too much effort.

 

What I don't understand is that if I was so bad, according to him I had always been this way, and the problems had always been there, then why on earth was he with me in the first place and why stay for just short of two decades? It's just illogical.

[LoveTNT]

Yes dgiirl, that is most definitely a part of it. Blame, or perhaps self justification. You tend to make a decision in isolation, inside your own head, then look for reasons to justify your behaviour by appearing to blame your ex. I have moved a little beyond that to accepting the truth of the situation.

 

I think it is different if there is a mistress involved, the justification then serves two purposes. To assuage guilt because of the affair and to, once again, justify the final move to leave.

 

I know I never talked to anyone about how I was feeling, but I never had a problem showing anger, at anyone who even remotely annoyed me. Even my bosses at work told me subsequently that they were scared to approach me in work, just because of the look on my face. I got used to people jumping if I came into the room. Thankfully that has all gone now.

 

If I can help some people come to terms with being literally walked out on, with no explanation, I would be happy.

 

I can say this to anyone who has had that experience.

 

I was the one who behaved like that. It is my fault that I took that course of action. You did nothing to engender it. I know you deserved a chance to understand. I lacked the self awareness, maturity and courage to give us a chance. I walked out on a perfectly good life. I wasn't happy because I didn't know how to be.

 

It is a very hard thing to explain. I peer back through time to try and see the man who did this thing. To see why he did it, all I can see from here is weakness and loneliness, a man trapped inside in his own head, looking in the wrong direction and valuing the wrong things.

 

I used work, between 60 and 84 hours a week, and supplying 'things', a big house, a BMW, motorbikes, possessions......to fill the gap that existed. I wasn't there for my family and my twisted perceptions saw it the other way around, they didn't value me. So my pride made me up and walk out. All I said was "Its over, I'm done here ", no real explanation. So weak.

 

If I can stop one person doing the same thing, or delay them enough to start to think, it would be cool.

 

 

Oh my!!! :/ , you sound like my ex. Plus He's super depressed right now, and won't let anyone in.... He used to be so loving, and then I broke up with him becaus i needed time. ALthough we did get back together I believe that was when he started building his wall, afraid to get hurt again. He even said so. He blames me, He says I killed him.... I know I had I big part but he's going though a lot of other things and what hurts me the most is that He's down and won't let anyone in...

[tojaz]

Oh my!!! :/ , you sound like my ex. Plus He's super depressed right now, and won't let anyone in.... He used to be so loving, and then I broke up with him becaus i needed time. ALthough we did get back together I believe that was when he started building his wall, afraid to get hurt again. He even said so. He blames me, He says I killed him.... I know I had I big part but he's going though a lot of other things and what hurts me the most is that He's down and won't let anyone in...

 

I hear this all the time in regards to myself. Its true, the walls get taller by the day, and I usually hate that thought, but lately I don't care.

 

Losing a love effects every part of your life, same as having one. Something that is often forgotten by a WAS. All the horror stories here, all the lost souls, battered and broken hearts, for what? Because someone needed time, needed space, the relationship was too much work or got in the way? Couldn't be bothered to care anymore? From the person that we should be able to trust the most! That can kill a part of you.

 

Not trying to bash you TNT, I dont know your story, but it does sound like you care about him. Just relating some of your remarks to my own. Just because you got back together doesn't wipe that slate clean. Actions like that leave scars and to some extent although they will heal and we learn to live with them, they are always there. Its mistrust, worry, flat out paranoia of what could lie around the bend.

 

Ae you the whole cause? Of course not. Like you said he has other things going on. Those other things are a lot easier to handle when you have something stable to turn to, something to lean on. Hes not so sure he has that anymore.

 

I'm sure I'm projecting quite a bit here, so my apologies.

 

After a long day, both emotionally and physically draining, coming home, sick and in pain to a big empty house, is an all to vivid reminder of the damage that can be done when that one thing, that one person you always thought would be rock solid when you needed them lets you down because they needed time, and couldn't be bothered with what you needed.

 

TNT if you want back inside that wall, its going to take a lot of work, a lot of sensitivity and a lot of tolerance. Really put yourself in his shoes.

 

TOJAZ

[florence of suburbia]

I sometimes wonder if for some of us, the person we love is also the person we find most dangerous.

[tojaz]

I sometimes wonder if for some of us, the person we love is also the person we find most dangerous.

 

The people we trust and care about are always the ones with the most power to hurt us, because they have us at our most vulnerable.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

I sometimes wonder if for some of us, the person we love is also the person we find most dangerous.

 

I would say yes...that is the person who you think you know...the side of someone that you cared about but were ignored....that you gave something to but were found unworthy. I never trusted my ex...he held things over my head as a way to control me and I saw that again tonight...by someone I trusted and by someone I knew I couldn't trust, the ink not even dry on the divorce papers yet for the one I never trusted.

 

I'm done....I see no point anymore in caring about anyone anymore...I know that the only person in life that I can trust is myself...I will never give that or my care to another person again other than my children.

[trippi1432]

The people we trust and care about are always the ones with the most power to hurt us, because they have us at our most vulnerable.

 

TOJAZ

 

I agree....saw it a couple of times tonight..thrice is the reminder that sticks in the mind....

[witabix]

This is EXACTLY what happened to me Witabix, in fact I will even go so far as to say my ex deliberately led me to believe everything was good, by his own admission he kept his thoughts well hidden from me. The first I heard of any of his complaints was after he left, all new stuff to me.

 

His excuse for not trying to work it out was people aren't capable of change, but then in the same breath he acknowledged I had previously changed at his request some years earlier. He then changed this to he couldn't be bothered because it was too much effort.

 

What I don't understand is that if I was so bad, according to him I had always been this way, and the problems had always been there, then why on earth was he with me in the first place and why stay for just short of two decades? It's just illogical.

 

The underlined resonates with me. I still believed that people weren't capable of change up to quite recently. I think it is used as a self sabotaging mechanism. Even though it is clearly a failure of logic, I have changed why not other people too.

 

When I look really closely at it I think I can perceive two elements to it, in my case anyway.

 

The first is the self sabotage, always struggling to believe that you have found someone that loves you, somewhere inside you feel as though don't deserve it. I am no quivering mass of insecurities on the outside, quite the reverse. But somewhere inside there is a profound inability to believe. An unshakeable feeling that all is not as it seems. Its a suspicion, maybe, of everyone and everything. Those feelings remain hidden, and by their very nature are never discussed.

 

The second is a by product that is developed over the years. An elitist feeling, that goes along the lines 'I am the only one I can trust', no one is worthy of my thoughts, no one could ever understand any way so, why try?

 

Reading that back I can see its not quite right.

 

It seems willow that we are on opposite sides of the same dynamic. I cannot speak for your ex directly, but I can say that your phrase

if I was so bad

is out of place here. This behaviour, walking away, is not really about your SO, you throw out anything that you can to 'smoke screen' your inability to articulate your thoughts, you may even be unaware at the surface level of your own thoughts, or motivations. I hasten to add here that I am not in any way justifying or excusing this behaviour.

 

I was married for thirteen years when I walked out, twenty years ago, now I can't seem to see why, but what I can see is the probable damage I did to my ex wife. How could I do such a thing? I asked myself the same question a while ago. Hence we are here talking about this stuff.

 

I am so sorry that your husband did the same to you, or something similar anyway. One of the worst parts of this is reading your thoughts about you being 'so bad', it fills me with despair that I may have left such a good person as my wife, and I am sure you too willow, with such a thought.

 

That appears to be the price of living with such a monumental idiot.

 

My 'emptiness' was never her fault, it was mine.

[witabix]

I sometimes wonder if for some of us, the person we love is also the person we find most dangerous.

 

The people we trust and care about are always the ones with the most power to hurt us, because they have us at our most vulnerable.

 

TOJAZ

 

I think these sentiments are true. I also think the heart of the 'strong silent' problem lies in an inability to accept this. The younger me would never accept that he was at the mercy of anyone else, as a fundamental edict. He was 'in charge', he would view such a position as weakness. He would never give himself over to this state of affairs.

 

That may be the nub of it in the end.

 

A translation of my above paragraph would be, he would never love anyone enough to let himself be at anyone else's power because he didn't love and trust himself. He would never let anyone love him, and if he realised they did he would run away like a child, screaming, leave me alone, no, go away. The reasoning behind running away would be equally puerile.

[witabix]

I would say yes...that is the person who you think you know...the side of someone that you cared about but were ignored....that you gave something to but were found unworthy. I never trusted my ex...he held things over my head as a way to control me and I saw that again tonight...by someone I trusted and by someone I knew I couldn't trust, the ink not even dry on the divorce papers yet for the one I never trusted.

 

I'm done....I see no point anymore in caring about anyone anymore...I know that the only person in life that I can trust is myself...I will never give that or my care to another person again other than my children.

 

I understand your post entirely and the feelings behind it. A word to the wise, don't let your heart become surrounded, beleaguered by these negative thoughts. Something worse than the death of love is the death of the ability to love.

 

I am struggling to give birth to my ability to love, don't let yours die.

[witabix]

Oh my!!! :/ , you sound like my ex. Plus He's super depressed right now, and won't let anyone in.... He used to be so loving, and then I broke up with him becaus i needed time. ALthough we did get back together I believe that was when he started building his wall, afraid to get hurt again. He even said so. He blames me, He says I killed him.... I know I had I big part but he's going though a lot of other things and what hurts me the most is that He's down and won't let anyone in...

 

TNT, when we whip the carpet out from under someone it takes a long time to rebuild the trust. Keep talking to him, show him you care.

[trippi1432]

I understand your post entirely and the feelings behind it. A word to the wise, don't let your heart become surrounded, beleaguered by these negative thoughts. Something worse than the death of love is the death of the ability to love.

 

I am struggling to give birth to my ability to love, don't let yours die.

 

Ultimately the problem with being left so carelessly is the mental anguish the left behind have to deal with, it all becomes too much. The left behind build their wall after being left (the leavers built it before they left from the understanding I am getting here).

 

That wall is there for many different reasons, to keep others out is the major goal, but it also affords the left behind a place to punish themselves for what they perceive as their wrongs. Everything starts piling up behind that wall...every hurt, every sorrow, every action and reaction...the wall just keeps getting taller and taller.

 

It's similar to the container, stress, it just builds and builds with everything that is a trigger until eventually the container spills over....and there is that wall keeping all that negative energy, negative thoughts, anger, hurt and mis-trust right there at our feet. If someone comes along that tries to take that from us (what has now become our comfort zone) we make the wall harder to scale - keep pushing people out because it's easier to stay in that comfort zone rather than trust or care again.

 

Ultimately, the left behind become the ones that blindside the next person in their life or are the ones that run as fast as they can from being blindsided again. It's all very relative to not being able to care again....somewhere inside that wall and that container is an empty guff - it's just easier to keep it empty because if you fill it with love, caring and happiness (which is what it is intended for, but what the leaver emptied when they left), who's going to mind the wall?

[witabix]

Yes trippi, a never ending cycle. For your own sake don't become what hurt you most.

[You Go Girl]

Leavers don't understand what they leave behind, I think that is quite correct. I have a horrible feeling that, at least for me, I do understand the hurt it caused. I have a really bad notion that that is exactly what is going on, to cause hurt. To redress a balance, regardless of the situation, I think that may be what is happening.

 

I have the power to go, and I use it. I have the power to remain silent and that will leave you powerless. It feels, odd, typing this out. Is it some kind of power trip? Ego whipping the other person. Is that a sign of an inner void, or as I see it an inability to communicate with yourself.

 

If I could go back twenty odd years and talk to the 'me' then, I wonder what the conversation would be like? My younger brother almost did the same thing a while back. I gave it to him straight between the eyes, the reality of what he was doing. He changed his mind.

 

As for your final question.....what would have stopped me? I am stumped at the moment. But I will give that more thought, I promise.

 

Look deeper.

I too was a WAS in my first marriage.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! How about a spouse scorned, regardless of gender?

My first H and I ran our marriage like a gestapo training camp. Everything was put away in its place, the finances were impeccable, the house was impeccable, the reputation within the community was impeccable. Sex was successful with simultaneous climax almost everytime, we had that studied and conquered. We were seamless...there wasn't a gap for the tiniest intruder to penetrate us or enemy to plan an attack. Or was there?

There was no romance. He didn't say Happy Birthday to me until the very end of the night of each of my birthdays. Anniversaries were a meal out with the question from him: So how many years does it really seem like we've been married? To which I would reply adding more years than we were. There was never a kiss coming home from work, except in the very beginning, and he would say hello dear, with sarcasm in his voice.

He chastised me publicly, especially in front of friends and relatives. He knew I wouldn't start an argument, but would stand there stupidly, humiliated and embarassed.

The man feared me, through all of this. Probably for good reason. Our jabs were small and accumulative, like cancer cells.

The things people do to each other without realizing the consequences of building resentment.

When I left, he had taken to porn watching for hours a day, sex was almost non-existant, I ignored all advances, we didn't owe a soul a penny, the savings account was large, the house was where we both wanted to live forever. He suggested we swing. I told him it was over. The day I watch the person I supposedly love screw somebody else, there's nothing left for me, and felt there was no feeling on his part to even suggest such a thing.

So I did the ultimate war manuever. There was little warning, communication was cut to near zero, his presence I had numbed to my heart. He tried then to salvage what was left with lecture-style discussions, I smirked at him. I KNEW the one thing he would never suspect, or even consider doing, or consider me doing, was to destroy our fortress of a life. It was the ultimate betrayal. I squashed him underfoot. I left him wounded for years, possibly to this day. I hear he's not doing so well in his second marriage, but will stay forever. His personal fortress is inpenetrable now. He is bitter. He HATES ME, almost 10 years later. Funny, I'm finally to the point where I realize that once I love someone, I love them forever.

What would have stopped me? I knew exactly what would work, and only one thing. That would be him down on his knees telling me how much he loved me. I also knew I'd never give him the clue to salvaging the marriage, he either figured it out himself or didn't. He didn't.

[HopelessinDTW]

Look deeper.

I too was a WAS in my first marriage.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! How about a spouse scorned, regardless of gender?

My first H and I ran our marriage like a gestapo training camp. Everything was put away in its place, the finances were impeccable, the house was impeccable, the reputation within the community was impeccable. Sex was successful with simultaneous climax almost everytime, we had that studied and conquered. We were seamless...there wasn't a gap for the tiniest intruder to penetrate us or enemy to plan an attack. Or was there?

There was no romance. He didn't say Happy Birthday to me until the very end of the night of each of my birthdays. Anniversaries were a meal out with the question from him: So how many years does it really seem like we've been married? To which I would reply adding more years than we were. There was never a kiss coming home from work, except in the very beginning, and he would say hello dear, with sarcasm in his voice.

He chastised me publicly, especially in front of friends and relatives. He knew I wouldn't start an argument, but would stand there stupidly, humiliated and embarassed.

The man feared me, through all of this. Probably for good reason. Our jabs were small and accumulative, like cancer cells.

The things people do to each other without realizing the consequences of building resentment.

When I left, he had taken to porn watching for hours a day, sex was almost non-existant, I ignored all advances, we didn't owe a soul a penny, the savings account was large, the house was where we both wanted to live forever. He suggested we swing. I told him it was over. The day I watch the person I supposedly love screw somebody else, there's nothing left for me, and felt there was no feeling on his part to even suggest such a thing.

So I did the ultimate war manuever. There was little warning, communication was cut to near zero, his presence I had numbed to my heart. He tried then to salvage what was left with lecture-style discussions, I smirked at him. I KNEW the one thing he would never suspect, or even consider doing, or consider me doing, was to destroy our fortress of a life. It was the ultimate betrayal. I squashed him underfoot. I left him wounded for years, possibly to this day. I hear he's not doing so well in his second marriage, but will stay forever. His personal fortress is inpenetrable now. He is bitter. He HATES ME, almost 10 years later. Funny, I'm finally to the point where I realize that once I love someone, I love them forever.

What would have stopped me? I knew exactly what would work, and only one thing. That would be him down on his knees telling me how much he loved me. I also knew I'd never give him the clue to salvaging the marriage, he either figured it out himself or didn't. He didn't.

Sorry for hijacking this but...YGG you are only mentioning things he did or did not do in ruining your marriage. Do you think anything you did had a part in it. I ask because, your marriage sounds sort of like mine, and the complaints you are making sound like my stbx's. But I know for a fact that everything she complained that I did or did not do, were the same exact things she did or did not do.

 

Of coarse he hates you, you never told him exactly how you feel. You let him go about his way without giving him a clue about what was wrong in your marriage...so he figured why rock the boat? Then you bashed him with the D-hammer. And you never gave him a chance to fix the marriage. Yes, you are a WAW, and your recognition of that is reassuring. Now he does sound like a prick...I mean suggesting you swing is really a dealbreaker no doubt. but everything leading to that point could have been "fixed" if you communicated to him.

[You Go Girl]

Sorry for hijacking this but...YGG you are only mentioning things he did or did not do in ruining your marriage. Do you think anything you did had a part in it. I ask because, your marriage sounds sort of like mine, and the complaints you are making sound like my stbx's. But I know for a fact that everything she complained that I did or did not do, were the same exact things she did or did not do.

 

Of coarse he hates you, you never told him exactly how you feel. You let him go about his way without giving him a clue about what was wrong in your marriage...so he figured why rock the boat? Then you bashed him with the D-hammer. And you never gave him a chance to fix the marriage. Yes, you are a WAW, and your recognition of that is reassuring. Now he does sound like a prick...I mean suggesting you swing is really a dealbreaker no doubt. but everything leading to that point could have been "fixed" if you communicated to him.

 

Yes, DTW, I re-read my own post and saw that I didn't bring up my shortcomings, and focused on his. Writing that post brought everything back. I can see it clearly now, that's how I could write it all out, but wow...what utter destruction, and how I felt again the power of destruction with writing that. The resentment came back! This many years later. So I will fix that now, and point out my own shortcomings.

 

I think I eluded to them in saying that we ran the marriage like a gestapo camp. We both made errors in judgment in disregarding each other's feelings.

I didn't want to work during some years of the marriage, feeling that I was contributing enough, as I did everything around the house but fix man-job things like plumbing, electrical, etc., of which he was a professional. When he came home from work he didn't have to do a darn thing but sit down and eat dinner, then do whatever he wanted until he went to bed. He wanted me to earn more money to make our fortress even stronger, he wanted to be a millionaire by the age of 50. We disagreed on that, he felt it wasn't fair that I only worked part-time some years. This was a huge issue between us.

I became somewhat cold and distant right after our daughter was born because he chastised me for having difficulty with breastfeeding and using the bottle instead. I was exhausted, the baby was a month old when I quit, we were eating dinner at the time when he said this, it was on the table at 5:30 as it was everyday per his expectations. I was so exhausted I did a very unusual thing for me, tears started running down my face. Usually I was too "strong" for such a visible "weak" emotion. He ignored the tears and continued with the lecture.

The baby was colicky and I hardly slept for the first three months. It can wear a person down.

I didn't want to go back to work when the baby was two months old because I wasn't sleeping because she wasn't sleeping. He accused me of planning all along to be a SAHM and put him in a position of being a workhorse. This is where the resentment started with the job issue.

At the same time, he freaked when he had to watch her alone for anytime at all, and refused. I had to take her even into the grocery store where women would tell me such a tiny baby doesn't belong in those cold aisles.

He had anxiety from the get-go of the idea of having a wife, child, and mortgage.

He up and quit his job one day when she was only 5 months old. His own mother freaked at what he had done and openly expressed sympathy to me. He felt women were against him. I went to work full-time immediately. He had to watch her. Within two months he had a new job, I quit my full-time job and went part-time. But the resentment was still there forever. He had hated that job he had quit, and had every right to feel that way. But that wall was now up.

These issues in marriages start early on. Then they snowball, are not discussed, and the tight-lipped resentment can be seen. The romance starts to disintegrate right there.

[HopelessinDTW]

Yes, DTW, I re-read my own post and saw that I didn't bring up my shortcomings, and focused on his. Writing that post brought everything back. I can see it clearly now, that's how I could write it all out, but wow...what utter destruction, and how I felt again the power of destruction with writing that. The resentment came back! This many years later. So I will fix that now, and point out my own shortcomings.

 

I think I eluded to them in saying that we ran the marriage like a gestapo camp. We both made errors in judgment in disregarding each other's feelings.

I didn't want to work during some years of the marriage, feeling that I was contributing enough, as I did everything around the house but fix man-job things like plumbing, electrical, etc., of which he was a professional. When he came home from work he didn't have to do a darn thing but sit down and eat dinner, then do whatever he wanted until he went to bed. He wanted me to earn more money to make our fortress even stronger, he wanted to be a millionaire by the age of 50. We disagreed on that, he felt it wasn't fair that I only worked part-time some years. This was a huge issue between us.

I became somewhat cold and distant right after our daughter was born because he chastised me for having difficulty with breastfeeding and using the bottle instead. I was exhausted, the baby was a month old when I quit, we were eating dinner at the time when he said this, it was on the table at 5:30 as it was everyday per his expectations. I was so exhausted I did a very unusual thing for me, tears started running down my face. Usually I was too "strong" for such a visible "weak" emotion. He ignored the tears and continued with the lecture.

The baby was colicky and I hardly slept for the first three months. It can wear a person down.

I didn't want to go back to work when the baby was two months old because I wasn't sleeping because she wasn't sleeping. He accused me of planning all along to be a SAHM and put him in a position of being a workhorse. This is where the resentment started with the job issue.

At the same time, he freaked when he had to watch her alone for anytime at all, and refused. I had to take her even into the grocery store where women would tell me such a tiny baby doesn't belong in those cold aisles.

He had anxiety from the get-go of the idea of having a wife, child, and mortgage.

He up and quit his job one day when she was only 5 months old. His own mother freaked at what he had done and openly expressed sympathy to me. He felt women were against him. I went to work full-time immediately. He had to watch her. Within two months he had a new job, I quit my full-time job and went part-time. But the resentment was still there forever. He had hated that job he had quit, and had every right to feel that way. But that wall was now up.

These issues in marriages start early on. Then they snowball, are not discussed, and the tight-lipped resentment can be seen. The romance starts to disintegrate right there.

Ok I take back what I said. He sounds like an a**hole. I wasn't like that at all. Especially the problems you had with the baby...it's very hard on a new mom. He really didn't seem to step up from what you're saying, and he felt the same way about you. BUT, it also sounds like this feeling you had between each other was not communicated well at all. Like you said, the "walls" went up, and the resentment festered. I really understand how this is such a slippery slope in a relationship. We all hear it, but open communication to nip these problems before they become crisis is the real key here. And like your 1st marriage, mine had the "wall" and the resentment...although it wasn't money/job. I think in our case it was lack of respect for each others feelings, wants, needs. My stbx also was very stubborn, did not take any criticism well. She complained about everything, and when I tried to help fix the situation it was either ignored that I had resolved the issue, or was chastized for not doing it right.

[You Go Girl]

Ok I take back what I said. He sounds like an a**hole. I wasn't like that at all. Especially the problems you had with the baby...it's very hard on a new mom. He really didn't seem to step up from what you're saying, and he felt the same way about you. BUT, it also sounds like this feeling you had between each other was not communicated well at all. Like you said, the "walls" went up, and the resentment festered. I really understand how this is such a slippery slope in a relationship. We all hear it, but open communication to nip these problems before they become crisis is the real key here. And like your 1st marriage, mine had the "wall" and the resentment...although it wasn't money/job. I think in our case it was lack of respect for each others feelings, wants, needs. My stbx also was very stubborn, did not take any criticism well. She complained about everything, and when I tried to help fix the situation it was either ignored that I had resolved the issue, or was chastized for not doing it right.

 

No, he wasn't an ahole. He was a sweet person who had insecurities. He was frightened at the degree of sudden responsibility with a mortgage taken on and a new baby, both born in the same week. He also was afraid to trust. I had cheated on him when we were teenagers. I met him when I was 16 for goshsake, I wasn't ready to settle down. They were errors of youth, he was innocent, so was I in that we were mere children.

Lack of respect for each other's feelings, wants, and needs? This is what every single marriage breakdown is about, no matter what issues we may claim to have with money, or anything else.

I am extremely stubborn and know it. But I'm only stubborn on dealbreakers, I do pick my battles well.

I'll tell you a huge breakdown in the marriage that you probably also experienced.

Earlier somebody brought up a feeling of being "undervalued". I can't say enough about that! How true it is!

We BOTH felt undervalued. We both busted our arses everyday, nobody was ever lazy. We failed to compliment and thank each other for the things we did right, but we BOTH were so darn quick to point out some small oversight. We BOTH took each other for granted. We BOTH were complacent.

[HopelessinDTW]

No, he wasn't an ahole. He was a sweet person who had insecurities. He was frightened at the degree of sudden responsibility with a mortgage taken on and a new baby, both born in the same week. He also was afraid to trust. I had cheated on him when we were teenagers. I met him when I was 16 for goshsake, I wasn't ready to settle down. They were errors of youth, he was innocent, so was I in that we were mere children.

Lack of respect for each other's feelings, wants, and needs? This is what every single marriage breakdown is about, no matter what issues we may claim to have with money, or anything else.

I am extremely stubborn and know it. But I'm only stubborn on dealbreakers, I do pick my battles well.

I'll tell you a huge breakdown in the marriage that you probably also experienced.

Earlier somebody brought up a feeling of being "undervalued". I can't say enough about that! How true it is!

We BOTH felt undervalued. We both busted our arses everyday, nobody was ever lazy. We failed to compliment and thank each other for the things we did right, but we BOTH were so darn quick to point out some small oversight. We BOTH took each other for granted. We BOTH were complacent.

The thing I can't figure out is what triggers all this, or is it something that happens to everyone over time...because of the fact we are living together as inperfect people? When we were together the first year was full of compliments, and doing stuff for each other without expecting anything in return. Over time that just went away, and like you said you become complaicent. But doesn;t that happen in any marriage? So where/when does the resentment and the "walls" start up? It's all very strange to me how this all happens, and it affects some marriages and not others?

[You Go Girl]

The thing I can't figure out is what triggers all this, or is it something that happens to everyone over time...because of the fact we are living together as inperfect people? When we were together the first year was full of compliments, and doing stuff for each other without expecting anything in return. Over time that just went away, and like you said you become complaicent. But doesn;t that happen in any marriage? So where/when does the resentment and the "walls" start up? It's all very strange to me how this all happens, and it affects some marriages and not others?

 

Communication is a skill, not innate. Just like a newborn baby can't speak English, newly married couples have no skill at conflict resolution, open honest communication, setting aside pride for the benefit of "us" (a big one in my book). I think simply we're all innocent. We didn't plan for our marriages to fail. We didn't see it coming, for sure, but with experience we do learn the pitfalls. So how to succeed at marriage without having to acquire the experience and knowledge of being married umpteen times?

Probably courses in high school should start with psychology of relationships. The thing is, schools teach math, science, etc., but where do we learn relationship skills?

Ah yes, we learn those skills in our families growing up. If those skills aren't learned very well because of the many forms of family dysfunction, then we don't have those skills.

If you want to know the communication skill level of a potential partner, (and they are young and inexperienced in romantic partner relationships) look to how their parents communicate with them, for best assessment (although they may have acquired some relationship skills from friends, teachers, etc.).

Who's to blame here? The parents who lacked skill? The children who went on without skill to make the same kind of mistakes?

Everybody is an "innocent child" until they have acquired these skills. It's like asking how to fix the flaws of mankind, of being human. Don't expect to, just forgive, and try to raise more aware children yourself, the new and improved model.

 

As for why it doesn't happen in some marriages--I honestly think some people are raised that "family comes first" and "divorce is not an option" if both partners are raised this way, their chance for success is high.

Edited September 3, 2010 by You Go Girl

[HopelessinDTW]

Communication is a skill, not innate. Just like a newborn baby can't speak English, newly married couples have no skill at conflict resolution, open honest communication, setting aside pride for the benefit of "us" (a big one in my book). I think simply we're all innocent. We didn't plan for our marriages to fail. We didn't see it coming, for sure, but with experience we do learn the pitfalls. So how to succeed at marriage without having to acquire the experience and knowledge of being married umpteen times?

Probably courses in high school should start with psychology of relationships. The thing is, schools teach math, science, etc., but where do we learn relationship skills?

Ah yes, we learn those skills in our families growing up. If those skills aren't learned very well because of the many forms of family dysfunction, then we don't have those skills.

If you want to know the communication skill level of a potential partner, (and they are young and inexperienced in romantic partner relationships) look to how their parents communicate with them, for best assessment (although they may have acquired some relationship skills from friends, teachers, etc.).

Who's to blame here? The parents who lacked skill? The children who went on without skill to make the same kind of mistakes?

Everybody is an "innocent child" until they have acquired these skills. It's like asking how to fix the flaws of mankind, of being human. Don't expect to, just forgive, and try to raise more aware children yourself, the new and improved model.

 

As for why it doesn't happen in some marriages--I honestly think some people are raised that "family comes first" and "divorce is not an option" if both partners are raised this way, their chance for success is high.

Very true...everything you said...but depressing. I see in myself traits of my father and mother, and their relationship with each other wasn't always great. I also see traits of my stbx's coming from her parents as well. We both had some level of dysfunctionality, I think her more so since she repeatedly told me how much she resented and hated her mom in particular. I don;t have those feelings for my parents, but I do know the way they were with each other was not healthy. I knew this, but somehow it got into my genes as well. The main thing being lack of outward affection...especially around others. The good news is I'm really learning about my mistakes, and where I went wrong. I'm making it a point to correct these, and to not make the same mistakes again. I am also learning what to look for in a potential future partner. And one thing I have learned for sure is the way they behave around their parents, and their relationship with them.

[Simon Attwood]

Probably the best thread I have read on Loveshack

[trippi1432]

I agree Simon....has been eye-opening.

 

Hopeless/YGG - I can relate very much to what you are both saying....the differences in how people were raised plays heavily on a marriage. I wasn't raised around yelling and screaming, my ex was....it was the only form of communication he knew. Being on the receiving end of that for so long I know that I have lost much of my primal instinct for communicating effectively in a relationship. I feel like I need to go back to the basics and learn all over again because of the damage it has done to me as well as my children.

 

The damage that each partner does to the other in a relationship is profound and it gets carried to the next by way of insecurity, anger, spite and even hatefulness. That is the person I don't want to become, but I know that I have a long way to go to get that damage out of my system and find me again....the person I used to like before she was constantly criticized into not even believing in herself anymore. I know that was on him, his own insecurity....he owns that, not me....but the damage will take a long time to work through.

[witabix]

Sorry for hijacking this but

no apology needed. This is what this thread is here for.

[You Go Girl]

...but the damage will take a long time to work through.

 

And if you cling to that damage like a purple heart war medal, you can keep the victim mentality and wear the armor forever...so don't trippi!

 

I was thinking about what DTW said about the walls going up. It is more than just communication skill.

It's a declaration of war. The resentment of "Oh no you didn't!" is different in one particular case...

I remember my exH PURPOSELY and maliciously doing things to make me angry.

Now there's a difference there, between being complacent, thoughtless, selfish, ignorant, whatever flaw you choose to focus on, and being purposely malicious. THAT'S IT. There's the declaration of war, and up the walls go, the fortress is built, and the war games never end until divorce.

It's a critical error in judgment to choose that path. When partners act out, create a 'watch what I am going to do to you' scenario, go for drama of any kind, they've chosen war. It would be interesting to hear of a case in which the couple grew up enough to survive war and mend their marriage.

I can think of so many many cases of this in marriages...they may sometimes be simple little jabs, but jabs too are war.

Edited September 3, 2010 by You Go Girl