Darkangelism Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Some kid just jumped out the window of my dorm, 17th floor, but i didnt know him, so I am not hurt at all, but what drives people to the point where they see that as the only option? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Depression clouds your judgement until you can see nothing ahead of you and imagine you'll never feel better. Till all you want is to stop the pain now. Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 People who commit suicide are not in their right mind at the time. They don't do it to try to purposely hurt anyone. They are in the depths of depression and don't know of a way out. Link to post Share on other sites
LuvSick Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 well I've thinking about it, Here are my possible reasons. I have nothing to live for, We are all gonna die anyway, why wait?, cant bear the pain anymore...too depressed, no friends, no lyf Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Trust me, all feelings and situations are only temporary. Everything will change with time. The way you feel right this moment will not be the way you feel forever. There is always hope. You should see a doctor or counselor or talk to anyone who will listen...parents, hotline...anyone. PM me. I will listen. Please read this: http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ And then check out this website: http://www.save.org/ Link to post Share on other sites
dsbs39 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by ladyangel People who commit suicide are not in their right mind at the time. They don't do it to try to purposely hurt anyone. They are in the depths of depression and don't know of a way out. "They don't do it to try to purposely hurt anyone." My father, almost twenty years ago killed himself. The question that will haunt me for the rest of my life, and no one can answer is, wasn't he thinking of the people who loved him, like me? His actions did hurt someone....he died one month before I graduated from high school, and left me, my mother and his sister upset and confused. His actions left a rift between my aunt and I. I loved my father but what he did was selfish. There is a reason why world religions consider suicide a sin. I understand that people are in pain, but once someone you know, someone close to you takes their life, it leaves a scar that never heals. Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by dsbs39 "They don't do it to try to purposely hurt anyone." My father, almost twenty years ago killed himself. The question that will haunt me for the rest of my life, and no one can answer is, wasn't he thinking of the people who loved him, like me? His actions did hurt someone....he died one month before I graduated from high school, and left me, my mother and his sister upset and confused. His actions left a rift between my aunt and I. I loved my father but what he did was selfish. There is a reason why world religions consider suicide a sin. I understand that people are in pain, but once someone you know, someone close to you takes their life, it leaves a scar that never heals. Trust me, I know what you're saying. I've been in your shoes. I forgave him. I later found out what it feels like to be on the brink of such a thing. But thankfully, I did think of my family and could never put them through what I/we went through when my father died. Sometimes it takes knowing firsthand what it does to a family to fully understand and to stop yourself. Depression is a horrible thing. But there is help. It's just too bad our fathers didn't know how to ask for help. Take care. Link to post Share on other sites
dsbs39 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by ladyangel Trust me, I know what you're saying. I've been in your shoes. I forgave him. I later found out what it feels like to be on the brink of such a thing. But thankfully, I did think of my family and could never put them through what I/we went through when my father died. Sometimes it takes knowing firsthand what it does to a family to fully understand and to stop yourself. Depression is a horrible thing. But there is help. It's just too bad our fathers didn't know how to ask for help. Take care. "It's just too bad our fathers didn't know how to ask for help." Yeah--that's for sure. I think there are a lot of men out there with some dark hearts and feelings, carrying a lot of pain around and many have handguns, or knives or whatever. My problem is, I occassionally encounter these "dark men" one my wonderful LOL journey of dating and I am torn--on one hand I want to help them, but one the other, I feel that they are looking for someone to save them, and in the end they will drain all my physical and psychic energy out of me. I wonder if I am selfish, or realistic. I kinda wonder if they will have any energy to prop me up emotionally once and a while. Some days I am able to forgive him, and love him again, and I realize that I spent so much time hating him that I forgot how much I missed him. He kept so much of his life under wraps, and I think sometimes I suffer the same. I wonder if what he did is one of the reasons I have a fear of committment. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 The question that will haunt me for the rest of my life, and no one can answer is, wasn't he thinking of the people who loved him, like me? The answer is 'no'. Think of depression like blinders. When you're feeling ok, your mind encompasses all the stuff of your life. When you're depressed, your focus shrinks. Imagine looking through the wrong end of a telescope - you can't see very much at all. Depression focuses you on the pain you have and nothing else. When you get to the point of wanting to end it, your thoughts are 'I can't stand this any longer'. Period. If you think about other people at all, you sincerely think they would be better off without you. Twisted? Yes - but that is depression; it distorts thinking. People make the mistake of assuming that someone in psychological trouble is thinking quite normally but that isn't at all the case. Your father very likely was very sad to leave you, but in his misery was utterly convinced that your life would be better with him out of it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BrainRightHeartWrong Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 yeah shame on Tony for that pathetic joke, maybe someone should push him out of a window! moimeme is right from my point of view, i have ( still am ) suffering from severe depression and thought seriously about suicide although i am a bit better now to stop having those constant thoughts... http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ is a great thing to read, especially for people who have never experienced this dreadful illness i wouldn't wish TRUE depression upon my worst enemy if i had one that is! it is that bad! Link to post Share on other sites
BrainRightHeartWrong Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 just thought somebody like him would be a little bit more compassionate and it was also a tad jovial so i was just testing if he could take a joke also ( there is a time and a place for jokes Tony and this wasn't one of them so i am still pissed off! ) yes i am indeed in treatment, doing all i can really, the medication ( which i am so unsure about ) and the therapy which i feel is much better but is at the early stages been thinking lately that despite all of the medication and therapy we maybe just start to heal ourselves through time and this self healing process could be a more significant factor in certain cases BUT obviously not all! i am lucky enough to have a lot of understanding friends and i suppose they are some of the best therapy one could get but to do it alone would be probably impossible Link to post Share on other sites
Author Darkangelism Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by Tony Are you sure somebody didn't push him out the window? Could be a murder. Actually it is a possibility, cause he was a nice, happy, guy with friends and was in clubs an activities and was well regarded, not the kind of person that would be associated with suicide. But maybe there were deeper problems. Link to post Share on other sites
BrainRightHeartWrong Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 But maybe there were deeper problems you never quite know what is going on in anybody's mind despite how happy a person could look! if he was like you said who would want to murder him, it is highly probable that he commited suicide i remember a guy here in Ireland at university who because he couldn't do his exams for whatever reason sharpened 2 pencils in the exam hall put them up his nose and headbutted the desk and killed himself... how messed up was that guy to do that? terrible Link to post Share on other sites
Author Darkangelism Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 That is a nasty mental image. and yeah he prolly did commit sucicide. Link to post Share on other sites
tphillip Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 People who committ suicide are looking for a way to stop their own mental pain, and ending their own life is the best way out (For them). For many, they see it as a way not only to end their pain, but also to spare their loved ones the pain that they're going through. I've learned a lot about suicide, not only on my personal journey down that road but also talking with professionals and families that have had someone commit suicide: 1) Men will try to commit suicide less, but will succeed far more often than women. 2) The preferred method of women is pills; the preferred method for men is firearms (Hence why men succeed more often). 3) Many women use suicide as a cry for help; hence why women don't succeed as often as men but attempt suicide more often. 4) Most people who plan commit suicide will NEVER let on that they've decided to do it. Many times a depressed person will seem to be "snapping out" of the depression and look to be on the road to recovery, when in fact their mind is at peace because of the decision they've made. Those who are severely depressed and then start to get better, or those who have been talking about suicide and then suddenly stop are usually the ones most at risk for suicide. 5) There is a significant risk with giving anti-depressants to severly depressed people. Those who are severly depressed usually have suicidal thoughts (Or suicidal ideation) but have no energy or motivation to carry out the thoughts. With anti-depressants the energy will return to the depressed person before their thinking starts to change for the better, giving them the energy to act on their suicidal thoughts. People who are just starting an anti-depressant regimen are severely at risk for committing suicide and need to be watched carefully. 6) Many anti-depressants have such a high lethal dosage that a suicidal person cannot commit suicide with them alone. Doctors love to try these drugs first because even if the patient ends up in the state I describe in #4 and uses the pills for the attempt, the worst that usually happens in the short term is that they sleep a lot. Unfortunately there is usually long term permanent damage to the liver because of the attempt (Is there any drug out there that DOESN'T screw and damage the liver?). However I do have a personal rant about the subject. <begin personal rant> I have a VERY BIG problem with people that say the person who committs suicide is selfish. I have only one thing to say to you: SHAME ON YOU FOR BEING SO SELFISH! Here is a person who is in such mental anguish that the ONLY WAY they see an end to their suffering is through death. They believe that they have no friends, no loved ones, and no other way out. Where were you when this person was in such pain? I've been there myself, down to the point of trying to find the right spot to do the deed and putting my affairs in order. I've talked to others who've been there and came back. I've talked to families who have had a loved one commit suicide. I've seen/heard the following time and again: 1) The loved ones are in denial, refuse to admit that there is a problem, and no support is given to the sufferer. 2) The loved ones think the person will just "snap out" of it, and actually verbally abuse (Though they don't see it as that at the time) the sufferer as being "weak". 3) The loved ones treat the sufferer like an Ebola victim, afraid that they'll somehow catch the "disease" too. That doesn't help the person contemplating suicide. It simply convinces them that it's the right thing to do. So before you get angry and start blaming the person who committed suicide for your pain, I suggest that you take the time to understand what was going through their minds, and forgive that person for making a poor, irreversible decision. And if you still feel that anger rise up, go into the bathroom, look into the mirror, and ask the person you see "What could I have done differently to have stopped this tragedy?" Because a lot of these tragedies happen not because the person has no loved ones...It's because the loved ones and friends do not take the time to see the symptoms or outright refuse to see what is staring them in the face. </end bitter rant> Yes, this subject cuts to the bone with me and I won't give anyone any slack when I hear comments such as "How could they do such a thing?". Anger is an important and necessary part of the grieving process, but "blaming the victim" should not be tolerated. They don't deserve your hate and anger; they deserved love, support, and attention when it would have made the biggest difference in their lives. To hear such hateful statements from those who were in a position to do the most good really makes my blood boil. To hear such statements from third parties makes me want to beat their ignorant head with a 2x4. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Tphillip, what obligates us to comment on the mental health of our friends? Some things truly are none of our business. When someone kills themselves, it's tragic, not sinister, and I feel bad for you if you take on and amplify the mental pain of others. How does blaming oneself for another's suicide stop the anger? Originally posted by tphillip Yes, this subject cuts to the bone with me and I won't give anyone any slack when I hear comments such as "How could they do such a thing?". Anger is an important and necessary part of the grieving process, but "blaming the victim" should not be tolerated. They don't deserve your hate and anger; they deserved love, support, and attention when it would have made the biggest difference in their lives. The suicidee is not the victim, (s)he gets off easy. The victims are the loved ones who have to deal with the stupid, selfish, thoughtless decision to take one's own life. Suicide is a choice one makes to deal with their pain, but it doesn't eliminate the pain, it just transfers it to the ones they love, and that is why it's one of the most offensive acts one can commit. To hear such hateful statements from those who were in a position to do the most good really makes my blood boil. To hear such statements from third parties makes me want to beat their ignorant head with a 2x4. Then I'd suppose we are to feel bad for you, because of the incredible support you could have drawn from, before deciding to bash my head in with a 2x4? Link to post Share on other sites
BrainRightHeartWrong Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 The suicidee is not the victim, (s)he gets off easy. The victim is the loved ones who have to deal with the stupid, selfish, thoughtless decision to take one's own life i disagree dyermaker, the suicidee is the victim as well obviously, well very obviously!!!! a suicide is not necessarily a stupid or decision either and most times definately not a thoughtless decision as for selfishness... i don't see how commiting suicide is any more selfish than the average human daily behaviour you ever been suicidal dyermaker? if and when you ever unfortunately do you will understand more i unfortunately know people ( good people ) who commited suicide and i never thought those things that you stated they just couldn't see any light and yes they were definately victims Link to post Share on other sites
Vivid_29 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by LuvSick well I've thinking about it, Here are my possible reasons. I have nothing to live for, We are all gonna die anyway, why wait?, cant bear the pain anymore...too depressed, no friends, no lyf Suicide - A permanent solution for a temporary problem. I hope you're not thinking about doing anything stupid luvsick! ~V Link to post Share on other sites
yes Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 i just wanna confirm that yes, when a person's feeling really down, worthless, has no goals, no sight on joy in the future, etc, s/he just wants to stop all the pain, and death is the quickest way to do it. i think many (my uneducated guess would be 80%) of people contemplate suicide at some point in their lives. -yes Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I personally find suicide to be an extremely selfish, weak, easy out decision. The easy out is never the best way out. Ever. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Suicide has both a personal and political dimension. You now have the suicide bombers (terrorists) whose goal is to cause maximum carnage. Whether in NYC, Tel Aviv, Sri Lanka, these folks commit a form of political suicide/murder. The bastards deserve to die. Then you have the Hemlock Society variant--people who are very old, and/or in severe pain and who are just exhausted with life. As a baby boomer in my early 50s, I suspect that quite a few of my fellow boomers will want to select the time, place and manner of their final exit. These are decrepitude suicides. Then you have the emotional illness suicides: People who suffer from depression or who are going through a very bad patch in their lives. These impulsive suicides are, I believe, treatable. They just have to get past their demons. Suicide, like death, is all around us. And when a loved one kills himself or herself part of us dies with that person. Suicide is rarely an act of love. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Darkangelism Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by LuvSick well I've thinking about it, Here are my possible reasons. I have nothing to live for, We are all gonna die anyway, why wait?, cant bear the pain anymore...too depressed, no friends, no lyf Don't do anything that you will regret. The kid screamed all the way down, he prolly realized he made a mistake. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 The suicidee is not the victim, (s)he gets off easy. The victims are the loved ones who have to deal with the stupid, selfish, thoughtless decision to take one's own life. Suicide is a choice one makes to deal with their pain, but it doesn't eliminate the pain, it just transfers it to the ones they love, and that is why it's one of the most offensive acts one can commit. This is a beautiful demonstration of people's utter lack of empathy. You absolutely cannot, without having travelled that path, POSSIBLY understand what is going on in someone's mind. I assure you that people do not commit suicide TO hurt their loved ones. You can NOT ever, EVER claim to understand someone's motivations unless you have been in EXACTLY the same situation. To do otherwise; to assume that you understand them and then assign blame, is completely unfair. Those of you who call this a 'selfish' act speak only from the standpoint of the observer, which is not empathy. Attempt to understand how you would have to feel in order to take your life. Attempt to sort out what sort of pain would convince you to leave everything. But do not assume that you have a right to judge people in their pain. Link to post Share on other sites
feeling silly Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Jester, I just want to add to your list. I know two people that have commited suicide and neither of them fell into those categories. 1) She was a misdiagnosed psychzophrenic for 4 years. Shortly after her final diagnosis, she overdosed on her 7 different types of medication. A chemical imbalance, I suppose. I miss her dearly. 2) He was a heroin addict. Just married, had a baby, was trying to straighten out. It turned out that his addiction was more powerful than him. In his letter he wrote " it's better this way than to make my wife and child suffer." He then hung himself. A wonderful guitarist, I miss him also. I guess sometimes there are things that we can't control within ourselves, it's just unfortunate for those who are left behind to deal with the questions. Darkangelism, I sympathise with your confusion. Assuming this was a suicide, there's obviously more than meets the eye. You may never find out why this person chose such a path, one can only imagine. But rest assured, to that person, whatever the reasons were they we very real. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 A chemical imbalance That would be an interesting avenue to explore: whether suicides have some tell-tale chemical imbalance. Such as too much, or too little, dopamine, serotonin, etc. I'm sure it's being done. Link to post Share on other sites
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