Why do people commit suicide?

[moimeme]

That would be an interesting avenue to explore: whether suicides have some tell-tale chemical imbalance. Such as too much, or too little, dopamine, serotonin, etc.

 

Depression, which is generally the precursor to suicide, has a known biochemical aspect. This is nothing new.

 

Here's a little reading for those of you who still haven't understood this connection:

 

http://www.save.org/basics/qna.html#1

[feeling silly]

The girl I am speaking was schyzophrenic. Her suicide was predicted and may or may not have been preventable. This was something that her "voices" told her to do for quite some time.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by moimeme

The suicidee is not the victim, (s)he gets off easy. The victims are the loved ones who have to deal with the stupid, selfish, thoughtless decision to take one's own life. Suicide is a choice one makes to deal with their pain, but it doesn't eliminate the pain, it just transfers it to the ones they love, and that is why it's one of the most offensive acts one can commit.

 

This is a beautiful demonstration of people's utter lack of empathy. You absolutely cannot, without having travelled that path, POSSIBLY understand what is going on in someone's mind. I assure you that people do not commit suicide TO hurt their loved ones.

 

You can NOT ever, EVER claim to understand someone's motivations unless you have been in EXACTLY the same situation. To do otherwise; to assume that you understand them and then assign blame, is completely unfair.

 

Those of you who call this a 'selfish' act speak only from the standpoint of the observer, which is not empathy. Attempt to understand how you would have to feel in order to take your life. Attempt to sort out what sort of pain would convince you to leave everything. But do not assume that you have a right to judge people in their pain.

 

I have no responsibility to be empathetic. I've had people in my family kill themselves, it offers no solace, no value, nothing but pain. When you kill yourself, you hurt others who love you incredibly. I'll never feel bad for someone who kills themselves, it's transitively hurtful. Have you had two members of your family kill themselves? You can't claim to be ampathetic, nor can you assert that everyone who kills themselves doesn't do so out of bitter spite, if it were any of your high-and-mighty business, I'd show you the letter we ALL had to read. I speak not from the standpoint of the objective observer (like you?) but from the victim.

[jester]

Dyer, a few weeks ago, there was an interesting New York Times Magazine article written by the grown daughter of mystery author Amanda Cross. The writer's mother, Ms Cross, had recently killed herself. And much like you, the daughter viewed her mother's suicide as a selfish act --a crime against the living.

 

I think I understand where you're coming from. Your experientially based opinion is not beyond the pale.

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by dyermaker

I have no responsibility to be empathetic. I've had people in my family kill themselves, it offers no solace, no value, nothing but pain. When you kill yourself, you hurt others who love you incredibly. I'll never feel bad for someone who kills themselves, it's transitively hurtful. Have you had two members of your family kill themselves? You can't claim to be ampathetic, nor can you assert that everyone who kills themselves doesn't do so out of bitter spite, if it were any of your high-and-mighty business, I'd show you the letter we ALL had to read. I speak not from the standpoint of the objective observer (like you?) but from the victim.

Dyer - I'm so sorry for your losses. It was obviously a very tragic experience for you. Please understand that everybody is different. We all grieve differently; we all have our own set of emotions and reactions to things. Several of us here have had people we love commit suicide and I'm sure not one of us has had the exact same reaction or feelings. But we do understand what it is like to have it happen to you.

 

Secondly, not every person who commits suicide does it for the same reason as the next person. Not every person has the same feelings and life experiences or mental imbalances that might contribute to their acts.

 

I also had to read a suicide letter, and in my case it gave me some comfort to know that he didn't do it because he wanted to hurt anyone -- as a matter of fact, he was very apologetic and sorrowful about what he was doing. He told us each how much he loved and cherished us and that we should in no way feel guilty ourselves. But he simply could not take the physical, emotional and mental pain he was suffering any longer. At first I could not understand that, but I came to over time and I accepted it because I had to.

 

There is no reason for us to argue amongst ourselves about why people commit suicide or who the victims are or who feels what. In the case of suicide, there are MANY victims.

[dyermaker]

I'm definitely withdrawing from posting in this thread, if you have any thing specifically addressed at me you can PM me. This is something that's personally relevant to me, and I'd rather not talk about it. I find it ironic that my view is seen as callous and hateful, and that (of course) I'm not capable of empathy because I don't cry a river when someone chooses to end their life. Dissapointed, but not surprised, I'm done with this thread.

[jester]

Sorry to hear that, fellow.

 

I understand, though. I've been where you are.

[moimeme]

It is important to always understand that the circumstances of one case are not the same as the circumstances for every single case. One of the biggest mistakes people make is to extrapolate from the particular to the general.

[jester]

No, it's important to recognize that one should not flame people, as you did Dyer, because you disagree with him.

 

As you always do, Saint moi, you trash people who have the temerity to say something with which you disagree. And that, dear lady, stifles meaningful discussion, and drives people away.

 

At your current pace, you'll be the last person standing at LS. Then you'll have your monopoly of virtue.

 

But no one will be left to listen.

 

[moimeme]

Someday, you may finally comprehend the meaning of the word 'flame'. However, I shan't hold my breath. I trashed nobody. You seem to have the greatest difficulty understanding that disagreeing with someone's opinion does not constitute trashing the person. Dyer knows I think he's articulate, intelligent, and wise beyond his years - and funny, to boot. That we disagree on this subject does not mean that we will not agree on others, as we have in the past.

 

You just do not and never will get it. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to make a world.

 

That Dyer answered out of anger and pain due to his experiences is understandable. However, that does not give him license to condemn or have contempt for everyone who commits suicide. He does, because he's reacting out of pain, but that does not mean it's a fair or valid assessment or reaction of every person who commits suicide and THAT is what I said.

[dsbs1939]

My father was working down in Florida the last time I saw him when I was sixteen years old, I was out of the country at the time and we were trying to find him and only found him when it was too late. His body was found days later. We tried therapy and all kinds of things but he would not quit drinking or go into therapy. I don't know why you hate me so much. thanks for your support.

[dsbs39]

I got kinda upset before that I typed in the wrong username...it is dsbs39. Wow, I am glad I haven't checked this thread or been on LS for a couple of days...

[Layla]

Hi Dyermaker and all the other posters on this subject

 

I have been in these shoes with my father commiting suicide 11 years ago when I was 18.

 

He suffered from severe depression which only seemed to reach a peak about 4 weeks before his death. No obvious signs before that. I have spent the last 11 years feeling "sorry" for him, forgiving him, torturing myself by thinking about all the pain he had gone through.

 

I will need to give you a little bit of background info. I have grown up in a WONDERFUL family with loving parents, lots of uncles, aunts cousins etc. I was brought up in a Catholic surrounding with no fights and people truly respecting each other. Long summer evenings and family gatherings with my father as the oldest brother in the whole "clan". I do not think that many people have the chance to grow up in such a warm and protected environment!

 

There was a lot of love between my parents and no real fights. Through this I was able to go to very good schools as I was somehow given a lot of strengths to pass heavy exams and always had some uncle or cousins (many of them academics) looking after me.

 

There was NO alcohol around!

 

Well; and then "out of the blue" my father decided he couldn't live any longer and left this familiy. I was so strong, telling everyone how desperate he must have been and protecting him especially in front of my mother.

 

I did this until 6 weeks ago, when I had to visit my wonderful mother in hospital. She has liver cirrhosis! She was the light in mine and everybody's life; always kind and selfless! A wonderful person. Obviously my father's death had destroyed her and made her drink secretely!!

 

Where does it leave me? I went from an excellent start in life to becoming a tragic figure with one parent killing himself and the other one drinking herself to death. I have a great boyfriend who loves me a lot and probably fell in love with me because of my kindness, my excellent schooling etc.

 

but let's face it. What do I have now? A f....cked up life behind me and people assuming that I will probably freak out one day myself.

 

And why; because my father did what he did and not thinking about the consequences.

 

I can categorically say, that I have had it tougher than my dad but am still here and persevering.

 

Therefore, Dyermaker, I can somehow see your point!

[HokeyReligions]

Having some experience with suicides-----

 

Last year my husband tried to commit suicide. He called someone at the last minute and they were able to talk him out of it. He'd been planning the suicide for several days. Turns out some of the medicine he'd been on for depression had an adverse effect on him and he was able to get counseling and switch meds. He is okay now.

 

My neighbor when I was growing up put a gun to his head one day. He was retired and ill and saw no point in going on.

 

Two years ago January a friend of our also put a gun to her head and killed herself. She was young--in her 30's -- and seemed to have so much to live for. No one knew she had a degenerative disease.

 

 

In all three cases the person who committed suicide - or tried to commit suicide - did so because they honestly thought they were doing what was best for those they loved. They had no hope and felt that their depression, lack of a future, whatever, would be too much of a burden to place on those they loved and death would be quick - there would be a short grieving process - and their families lives would be better for not having them in it.

 

It's so much more complicated then not believing they have anything to live for and suicide is a selfish act - in many cases the person contemplating/commiting suicide is doing so because they truly believe it to be a selfless act.

 

Another person - not a close friend of mine - jumped off of a roof. He was on drugs and probably thought he could fly.

 

I am all for self-termination -- but for very specific reasons. If I am diagnosed with Alzhiemers some day then I will kill myself. I don't want to go through that or put my family through that. If I am ill and there is no chance for recovery and I am in pain - then I want to self-terminate. At what point during the process of whatever disease or accident has befallen me, I will self-terminate I do not know. Timing is everything. I don't want to go too soon, but I don't want to wait so long that I am unable to have a say-so or to take action.

 

Its too bad about that this person killed themself. I feel so bad for the family - it will be very difficult for them to get through their particular grieving process. If you know them tell them to visit BeyondIndigo.com. There is a section for suicide grief. It's a serious site that helped me when I could not bring myself to attend grief counseling in person.

[moimeme]

What do I have now? A f....cked up life behind me and people assuming that I will probably freak out one day myself.

 

People who assume that are just stupid. Don't let such a fool bother you. You have just said you had a wonderful life, and you did. Your mother didn't have to choose booze to cope with her grief. It is unfortunate that she did, but you have also learned from her that that would be an unwise choice, should you, for whatever reason, suffer a horrible loss.

 

I'm very sorry your mom is ill, but people need to be helped to choose good coping strategies in the wake of tragedies. Deciding to hate and blame people is not a good coping strategy.

[jmargel]

Four years ago my ex-fiancee's dad tried killing himself. We had NO clue he was this depressed. He was living life like he usually was. The night before he tried it, he came over to our house asking if his daughter was around. This was a 45 minute drive and he was not the type to do this. I said 'She's at work' and he's like 'Oh, maybe I should stop over and tell her I love her'. He came over unexpectendly. I then asked him 'Are you alright?' and he just smiled and said 'Yep, i'm fine'. He talked for about 5 mins, nothing much and he left.

 

Next night his wife came over, crying. He was in ICU. He hung himself in the basement, where his wife found him. She was able to save him but the emotions on why he did this, etc.. really tore his daughter up. She was abused as a child by her mom & looked upto her dad for everything.

 

Even myself I couldn't imagine how COULD YOU do this to your daughter? How could you be SO selfish? I thought like this for a number of years until one day I found myself to be suicidal.

 

Suicidal thoughts just don't appear right before you do it. Its a thought process that happens over weeks, months.. At first the thought of my family prevented me from doing it (My ex-fiancee left and did alot of hurtful things to me) and especially my 4 & 6 year old nieces which adore me stopped me. However over the next few weeks I noticed I would pass cars on double lines, go extremely fast (over 80 - 90 mph) and start looking for trees that I could crash into. These thoughts, alone with loneinless and self-pity became more & more intense. My family never knew I was suicidal, neither did any of my friends. I put on a great front because I was way too embrassed to let anyone know. However people at work said they were concerned about me and my brother did as well. I stopped talking, stopped being outgoing. Inside I was already dead, it was just a matter of finishing the job. I was in a long black tunnel without any light at the end of it. Life was not enjoyable anymore, there was only pain, suffering, and loneinless. There was no way I could trust or love someone again like I did her.

 

My self-worth was based on the way she treated me.

 

That last sentence I wrote was the main reason why I felt that way. I had letter written out to each family member, and was going to buy the gun that day. I was literally sitting there just trying to come up with some sort of reason not to do it. I really didn't want to die, but I had no choice. That's how suicidal people feel. I never knew this until I went through it myself. I didn't want to inflict pain on anyone about my dying, but I couldn't live with the pain myself anymore. The only thing that did save me was a friend who anytime I needed to talk to was always there. She would listen to me for hours on end, even though she had no clue how much it meant to me. I figured if there was one person I could talk to, who would listen without passing judgement, etc.. then maybe its a start on healing my pain.

 

So until you really face it yourself (which I hope none of you ever have to) you can't blame a person who commits suicide as being selfish, etc.. Thats just an excuse of not dealing with the reason WHY they did it. Love to me back then didn't mean anything to me. It was the ability to talk to someone and have them listen which did.

[moimeme]

I never knew this until I went through it myself

 

That is the critical point. Until you have walked in someone else's shoes, you just cannot comprehend their motivations or intentions.

 

Glad you made it through your crisis, jmarquel, and thanks for posting the story 'from inside' so that others might be better able to understand what goes on in the mind of someone at that point of desperation.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by moimeme

Until you have walked in someone else's shoes, you just cannot comprehend their motivations or intentions.

For the record Moi, I never attempted such comprehension.

[jester]

For the record Moi, I never attempted such comprehension.

 

Welcome back, Dyer!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by jester

Welcome back, Dyer!

Silent victories aside, jester, moi and I continued our discussion privately, and reached a semantic standstill we're both evidently happy with.

[longlegzs80]

People I think who commit suicide are very very depressed people who feel as if they have no where to turn, no hope in life, no goals or ambition, no nothing. I have honestly thought about suicide myself, but would never take it to the step of actually doing anything. I truely think people who do this are way past that stage of being uphappy with themselves and life, but they are in such a deep hole that they might not know how to get out as far as helping themselves.

[moimeme]

Silent victories aside, jester, moi and I continued our discussion privately, and reached a semantic standstill we're both evidently happy with.

 

 

Indeed we did

[BrainRightHeartWrong]

excellent post jmargel

 

you clearly know how despondant and terrible it is to feel that way

 

it has to be the worst human emotion possible

 

So until you really face it yourself (which I hope none of you ever have to) you can't blame a person who commits suicide as being selfish, etc.. Thats just an excuse of not dealing with the reason WHY they did it. Love to me back then didn't mean anything to me. It was the ability to talk to someone and have them listen which did.

 

so very true

[Darkangelism]

The most disturbing part of all this is that I had to talk my friend down from it lst night, and it hasnt been a week since I made this thread.

[jmargel]

It truly is the worst possible feeling in the world because being at the point of doing it, you aren't even yourself anymore. You feel like that's been taken away from you. Not only was your happiness, and love for life is gone, but also your soul. For me to go through that again I don't know if I could make it next time around. Even councilors weren't a help. They just sat there & listened, but the whole time I was thinking 'Im paying this stranger $100 an hour to listen to me, in which five minutes after i'm gone he'll forget all about this'.

 

Any thoughts of suicide should be taken seriously, however small it may seem. Its your own mind telling you that you aren't happy in life. Depression medicene also didn't work, it made me feel like I had 'fake' happiness. It wasn't dealing with the problems at hand, only trying to mask some of my emotions. It actually made things worse for me.

 

For people who are in a depression you just have to force yourself to sludge through life. Eventually you'll get out of that mud pit to find better things. But the only way things are going to change is if you force yourself to start. Setting short term goals is something I did. It gave me a sense of accomplishment and something to start with.